YES or NO: Do The 10 Commandments Still Apply To Us Today? (2)

[JimfromOhio]

"If Christ is in us, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness" (Romans 8:10). We are to follow the Ten Commandments through Christ's love. There are Christians denominations that will reduce God’s Commandments of our Christian Life to formulas (legalism) which leads them to be “proud” of their efforts which replaces grace. In God's grace, legalism is not needed because we have the Holy Spirit that places the laws in our hearts. Legalism is spiritually fatal. Whenever legalism of faith doctrines replaces grace, legalism causes a Christian to sin. Flesh's faith leads a person them to do 'works" while Spirit produces faith. Many Christians have spent their time correcting their faith symptoms rather than allowing the Holy Spirit lead their faith. According to the Apostle Paul, “If it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace” (Rom. 11:6). God says all our OWN righteousness are fatally flawed.

Christ's blood counts as payment for all our sins, and His fulfillment of the law counts as all the merit we need. That is the meaning of 2 Corinthians 5:21: God "hath made [Christ] to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him." Legalism do not work anymore. Christ's perfect life supplies us with all the merit we need to be acceptable to God. We are not under law, but under grace.

The condition of the heart determines how receptive a person is to God's commandments. God blesses us with LOVE and the blessings of love flows through us to others. Without Christ, we are nothing. Along with love and under the control of the Holy Spirit, the power of love and Holy Spirit flows through us. The only way the spiritual gifts are going to operate is love. Love is the key. God is love. He gave us two commandments. We are to love God and others. With the Holy Spirit and love, I will walk in the Spirit, Christ produces the fruit.

 

[Tu Es Petrus]

.

Is this a real quote?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by BrightCandle I've got to leave for Sabbath worship

Have some Matzah Balls for me while you're there, and say Hi to the Rabbi.

The SDA's and Messianics should be worshipping together in the same synagogues

 

[Tu Es Petrus]

I'm a jerk, aren't I.
LOL

 

[Tu Es Petrus]

YouTube - Ten Commandments - A Parody

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I'm a jerk, aren't I.
LOL

Yes, but a rather Kewl one I would say

Luke 21:5 And certain saying about the Temple that to stones ideal and devoted-things it hath been adorned He said.......

Reve 19:3 And a second-time they have declared "allelouia and the Smoke of Her is ascending into the Ages of the Ages".

 

[Doveaman]

Context brother, context......

"...the letter kills..."

Did God write the Ten Commandments as a "letter?"

Yes, He did.

This is why it was called a letter, because it was written. Get it?

He has made us competent as ministers...not of the letter...for the letter kills...the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone...2 Cor 3:6-8.

It is the "Spirit" that convicts the wayward soul, not the law. Hence, the "law" written on the heart. It's "built" in obedience to the word of God.

The law is 'written in our hearts not in the form of ten Commandments, but in the form of a Living Spirit. Get it?

The ten commandments is letter, the Living Spirit is Spirit, and:

He has made us competent as ministers...not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but theSpirit gives life...2 Cor 3:6.

Do you get it yet?

Maybe not.

 

[Doveaman]

It is such a shame that you have no more basic knowledge of the "law" than to think outside of the box in terms of what is meant.

Tell me Doveaman where does the Torah specifically state that a "Jew" (sic) cannot associate with a gentile?

Peter knew exactly where, this is why he mentioned it.

Therefore remember that you,once Gentiles in the flesh — who are called Uncircumcision by what is called the Circumcision made in the flesh by hands — that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.

But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ...Eph 2:11-13.

Not associating with Gentiles has to do with the fact that Gentiles were not included or welcomed within the commonwealth of Israel unless they were baptized into the law through circumcision.

Now that the law with it's baptism is abolished, Jews and Gentiles can now associate. We are now baptized into Christ through faith in His blood.

You should spend more time in the New Testament, you will understand the Torah better, and not continue to read it with a veil over your heart.

But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read. It has not been removed, because only in Christ is it taken away. Even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts. But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away....2 Cor 3:14-16.

Remove the veil brother, remove the veil....

 

[Doveaman]

Remember what happened to the young man who went to sleep while Paul preached in till midnight? He fell to his death!! Wake up and hear the truth!

Sorry, but I couldn't help it. Still can't.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by Tu Es Petrus

​

Originally Posted by BrightCandle

Remember what happened to the young man who went to sleep while Paul preached in till midnight? He fell to his death!! Wake up and hear the truth!
​

Sorry, but I couldn't help it. Still can't.

I thought TEP was acting a little strange

 

[Doveaman]

I'm a jerk, aren't I.
LOL

Is that a question or a statement? I don't see a 'question mark'.

In any case, you know yourself better that we do.

 

[Doveaman]

.

Is this a real quote?

Yes, but it's the wrong picture.

 

[Doveaman]

"If Christ is in us, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness" (Romans 8:10). We are to follow the Ten Commandments through Christ's love. There are Christians denominations that will reduce God’s Commandments of our Christian Life to formulas (legalism) which leads them to be “proud” of their efforts which replaces grace.

Yes...I also do believe that allegiance to the ten commandments can become a form of idol worship if not used ‘lawfully’ as Paul said it aught to be used.

But we know that the law is good if one uses it lawfully, knowing this: that the law is not made for a righteous person, but for the lawless...1 Tim 1:8-9.

I’m afraid that some here are not using it ‘lawfully’.

I wouldn’t venture as far as to say that they are idol worshiping, though. God knows for sure if they are. And since that possibility exists, then ten commandment users ought to be very careful how they use it.

Me, personally, I don’t believe we need to rely on them at all. We rely on Christ only and not on ten commandments also.

That’s the kind of freedom I believe we all have in Christ.

It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery...Gal 5:1.

In God's grace, legalism is not needed because we have the Holy Spirit that places the laws in our hearts. Legalism is spiritually fatal. Whenever legalism of faith doctrines replaces grace, legalism causes a Christian to sin. Flesh's faith leads a person them to do 'works" while Spirit produces faith. Many Christians have spent their time correcting their faith symptoms rather than allowing the Holy Spirit lead their faith. According to the Apostle Paul, “If it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace” (Rom. 11:6). God says all our OWN righteousness are fatally flawed.

Christ's blood counts as payment for all our sins, and His fulfillment of the law counts as all the merit we need. That is the meaning of 2 Corinthians 5:21: God "hath made [Christ] to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him." Legalism do not work anymore. Christ's perfect life supplies us with all the merit we need to be acceptable to God. We are not under law, but under grace.

The condition of the heart determines how receptive a person is to God's commandments. God blesses us with LOVE and the blessings of love flows through us to others. Without Christ, we are nothing. Along with love and under the control of the Holy Spirit, the power of love and Holy Spirit flows through us. The only way the spiritual gifts are going to operate is love. Love is the key. God is love. He gave us two commandments. We are to love God and others. With the Holy Spirit and love, I will walk in the Spirit, Christ produces the fruit.

Well said.

 

[Harry3142]

Dovaman-

These are the passages that you have taken those verses out of:

"Slaves, obey your earthly masters with faith and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ. Obey them not only to win their favor when their eye is on you, but like slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from your heart. Serve wholeheartedly, as if you were serving the Lord, not men, because you know that the Lord will reward everyone for whatever good he does, whether he is slave or free."

"And masters, treat your slaves in the same way. Do not threaten them, since you know that he who is both their Master and yours is in heaven, and there is no favoritism with him." (Ephesians 6:5-9,NIV)

"Slaves, obey your earthly masters in everything; and do it, not only when their eye is on you, and to win their favor, but with sincerity of heart and reverence for the Lord. Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart, as working for the Lord, not for men, since you know that you will receive an inheritance from the Lord as a reward. It is the Lord Christ you are serving. Anyone who does wrong will be repaid for his wrong, and there is no favoritism." (Colossians 6:22-25,NIV)

"By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as an expert builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one should be careful how he builds. For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. If any man builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, his work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man's work. If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward. If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames." (I Corinthians 3:10-15,NIV)

Gaining eternal life is in itself a reward; it is a totally unearned reward. We could not do anything to merit our own salvation before we accepted Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior, and we cannot do anything to ensure our own salvation. We are indeed his slaves, but we are more than that; we are also his heirs. As his slaves our duty is to permit the Holy Spirit to work through us. We accept freely the path that he has chosen for us as individuals to walk on our journey through this life, and we submit freely to his will. But we do this not out of a sense of terror, but out of a sense of gratitude. He has saved us from our own narcissism and vanity, and he did it in spite of our weakness.

We have become heirs of God's kingdom as a free gift, totally unearned, and woefully undeserved. Our own conscience tells us that we owe him, and it is a debt that we can never repay. So we show our gratitude by furthering his kingdom, which has one, and only one, foundation. That foundation is Jesus Christ himself,who willingly atoned for our sins on the cross, was resurrected triumphantly by God the Father, and who now sits at the right hand of God the Father, awaiting the time when he will return to gather his own to him.

 

[BrightCandle]

Yes...I also do believe that allegiance to the ten commandments can become a form of idol worship if not used ‘lawfully’ as Paul said it aught to be used.

But we know that the law is good if one uses it lawfully, knowing this: that the law is not made for a righteous person, but for the lawless...1 Tim 1:8-9.

I’m afraid that some here are not using it ‘lawfully’.

I wouldn’t venture as far as to say that they are idol worshiping, though. God knows for sure if they are. And since that possibility exists, then ten commandment users ought to be very careful how they use it.

Me, personally, I don’t believe we need to rely on them at all. We rely on Christ only and not on ten commandments also.

That’s the kind of freedom I believe we all have in Christ.

It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery...Gal 5:1.
Well said.

Doveman: I don't know where you get your theology from, but think about this: If everyone on earth followed your premise, when it comes to God's law, we would have an awful lawless planet, much worse than it already is. Remember, the children of Israel suffered judgment when they broke God's law in rebellion. That's why it says that they didn't enter into the "rest" that God wanted to give them. The nation of Israel under Moses, Joshua, and even David rebelled against God and his Holy Law, and therefore did not experience God's grace and rest. The same is true of the theology that you are proposing it is cheap grace.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Doveman: I don't know where you get your theology from, but think about this: If everyone on earth followed your premise, when it comes to God's law, we would have an awful lawless planet, much worse than it already is. Remember, the children of Israel suffered judgment when they broke God's law in rebellion. That's why it says that they didn't enter into the "rest" that God wanted to give them. The nation of Israel under Moses, Joshua, and even David rebelled against God and his Holy Law, and therefore did not experience God's grace and rest. The same is true of the theology that you are proposing it is cheap grace.

Now they suffer to this very day by not entering the Rest that can only be found in JESUS

Hebrews 4:3 For we are entering into the Rest, the ones-believing. According to as He declared, 'As I have sware in My wrath, if they shall be entering into the Rest of Me' and-those the works from down-casting of world being become. [Psalm 95:11]

Revelation 14:11 And the smoke of the tormenting of them is ascending into Ages to-Ages. And not they are having Rest day and night [Matt 11:29/Hebrew 4:3]

 

[Tu Es Petrus]

I'm a jerk, aren't I.
LOL

Is that a question or a statement? I don't see a 'question mark'.

In any case, you know yourself better that we do.

Yup. I'm not full of myself, so I'm comfortable saying such things. I keep it real man. Too bad some other people here can't do the same.

 

[Tu Es Petrus]

Doveman: I don't know where you get your theology from.........

I don't know where either one of you get your theology from

 

[Doveaman]

Dovaman-

These are the passages that you have taken those verses out of:

"By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as an expert builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one should be careful how he builds. For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. If any man builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, his work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man's work. If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward. If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames." (I Corinthians 3:10-15, NIV)

The passages I highlighted in red tells me that we will be rewarded according to the 'quality' of our 'work'.

If our 'work' is of a good 'quality' we will 'receive' a 'reward' accordingly.

If our 'work' is of a poor 'quality' we will 'suffer loss' of reward.

But we ourselves will still 'be saved'.

Clearly there is a distinction between the 'reward' and being 'saved'.

The 'reward' is according to the 'quality' of our 'work'.

The 'saved' is by faith.

In addition:

Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt...But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness...Rom 4:4-5.

Here, again, Paul makes a distinction between our “faith” that results in “righteousness” and our ‘work’ which results in “wages” that God will pay us as a “dept” or ‘reward’ for our work..

For example:

A man of noble birth...called ten of his servants and gave them ten minas. “Put this money to work,” he said, “until I come back.”...

He...returned...Then he sent for the servants to whom he had given the money, in order to find out what they had gained with it.

The first one came and said, “Sir, your mina has earned ten more.” “Well done, my good servant!” his master replied. “Because you have been trustworthy in a very small matter, take charge of ten cities.”

The second came and said, “Sir, your mina has earned five more.” His master answered, “You take charge of five cities.”...Luke 19:12-19.

Even though eternal life in ‘heaven’ is a free gift which we receive by faith, the positions of responsibility (in charge of "cities") which we will receive from God is given to us as a reward based on job performance (in "small matters") here and now.

The servant who earned “ten” minas was put in charge of “ten cities”. The servant who earned “five” minas was put in charge of “five cities”.

These are different values of rewards in ‘heaven’ based on job performance here and now even though ‘heaven’ itself is a free gift that is by faith.

The man who plants and the man who waters have one purpose, and each will be rewarded according to his own labor...1 Cor 3:8.

Heaven itself is free, but what we do in heaven is qualified for based on job performance here and now. We are "rewarded according to our own labor".

The quality of each man's labor is different, and, therefore, the value of each man's reward will be different, because it is paid according to the quality of "our own labor".

 

[Doveaman]

I don't know where either one of you get your theology from

Not from Sacred Tradition or Magisterium, that's for sure.

RCs focus a lot on Sacred Tradition and Magisterium.

SDAs focus a lot on Torah.

Shouldn't Christ be our focus?