YES or NO: Do The 10 Commandments Still Apply To Us Today? (2)

[RND]

You sound like Nicodemus. Are you two related?

I was being "sarcastic." Sorry you couldn't discern it.

 

[RND]

It's not and argument. It's a fact.

He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant- — not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory...will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious?...2 Cor 3:6-8.

Context brother, context......

"...the letter kills..."

Did God write the Ten Commandments as a "letter?"

"He is the one who has enabled us to represent his new covenant. This is a covenant, not of written laws, but of the Spirit. The old way ends in death; in the new way, the Holy Spirit gives life. That old system of law etched in stone led to death, yet it began with such glory that the people of Israel could not bear to look at Moses' face. For his face shone with the glory of God, even though the brightness was already fading away.Shouldn't we expect far greater glory when the Holy Spirit is giving life?"

It is the "Spirit" that convicts the wayward soul, not the law. Hence, the "law" written on the heart. It's "built" in obedience to the word of God.

 

[Tu Es Petrus]

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by Tu Es Petrus

​

Hopefully, you will lean a few things on the side.

There is nothing new the RCs wish to learn.
All they need is their Catechism and they are good to go

 

[heymikey80]

Doesn't that render easter as redundant?

It'd render every Sunday redundant, wouldn't it ?

Isn't Easter a Sunday celebration?

You seem to have a grasp on things Mike, unlike most folks, in that you at least recognize that the sabbath was never changed to Sunday.

Yes, I don't think that the Sabbath day itself was changed to Sunday. I follow Calvin on this point. Hebrews 4 does say that the Sabbath day was re-designated, just as the sabbath rest was instituted to more closely meet its actual purpose, as you've said -- to cease doing our own works, and do God's work every day.

 

[willowtrees]

There is nothing new the RCs wish to learn.
All they need is their Catechism and they are good to go

I shouldn't laugh the message in your post is not to be laughed at!
Though how you post it is.

 

[willowtrees]

I was going to post another video but will refrain

 

[Tu Es Petrus]

There is nothing new the RCs wish to learn.
All they need is their Catechism and they are good to go

At least I don't go 'round and 'round from Catholic to protestant to EO whenever the whim hits me. I'm a man of conviction.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

At least I don't go 'round and 'round from Catholic to protestant to EO whenever the whim hits me. I'm a man of conviction.

 

[Stryder06]

It'd render every Sunday redundant, wouldn't it ?

Isn't Easter a Sunday celebration?

Yes, I don't think that the Sabbath day itself was changed to Sunday. I follow Calvin on this point. Hebrews 4 does say that the Sabbath day was re-designated, just as the sabbath rest was instituted to more closely meet its actual purpose, as you've said -- to cease doing our own works, and do God's work every day.

Which part of Hebrews 4 says that the sabbath was re-designated. I just went through it and I didn't see any reference to such a thing occuring.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Which part of Hebrews 4 says that the sabbath was re-designated. I just went through it and I didn't see any reference to such a thing occuring.

why do Messianics and SDA's focus so much on the OC for? Come into the NEW and find rest for your souls [Matt 11:29]!

Hebrews 8:13 in the to be saying 'New' He hath made old the first. The yet being aged and being obsolete nigh of disappearance/a-fanismou <854>

Reve 19:3 And a second-time they have declared "allelouia and the Smoke of Her is ascending into the Ages of the Ages".

 

[Harry3142]

I have quoted this passage on other threads, but it is necessary for this discussion that we recognize what God offered the Hebrews in exchange for their obeying The Mosaic Law. This is that contract:

"If you pay attention to these laws and are careful to follow them, then the Lord your God will keep his covenant of love with you, as he swore to your forefathers. He will love you and bless you and increase your numbers. He will bless the fruit of your womb, the crops of your land - your grain, new wine and oil - the calves of your herds and the lambs of your flocks in the land that he swore to your forefathers to give you. You will be blessed more than any other people; none of your men or women will be childless, nor any of your livestock without young. The Lord will keep you free from every disease. He will not inflict on you the horrible diseases you knew in Egypt, but he will inflict them on all who hate you." (Deuteronomy 7:12-15,NIV)

This passage explains what God promised the Hebrews as a reward for their obedience, and what the Hebrews expected as their reward for obeying The Mosaic Law. They obeyed it in this life; they were to be rewarded in this life. It was a very pragmatic, here-and-now contract with no mention of their even being an afterlife, much less their attaining it. And the Ten Commandments were considered by them as a part of The Mosaic Law, which contained 613 different laws in all.

As for their attitude toward an afterlife, Solomon himself tells us what that was:

I also thought, "As for men, God tests them so that they may see that they are like the animals. Man's fate is like that of the animals; the same fate awaits them both: As one dies, so dies the other. All have the same breath; man has no advantage over the animal. Everything is meaningless. All go to the same place; all come from dust, and to dust all return. Who knows if the spirit of man rises upward and if the spirit of the animal goes down into the earth?"

So I saw that there is nothing better for a man than to enjoy his work, because that is his lot. For who can bring him to see what will happen after him? (Ecclesiastes 3:18-22,NIV)

Jesus Christ himself taugt that we are to expect nothing whatsoever as a reward for our obedience:

"Suppose one of you had a servant plowing or looking after the sheep. Would he say to the servant when he comes in from the field, 'Come along now and sit down to eat'? Would he not rather say, 'Prepare my supper, get yourself ready and wait on me while I eat and drink; after that you may eat and drink'? Would he thank the servant because he did what he was told to do? So you also, when you have done everything you were told to do, should say, 'We are unworthy servants; we have only done our duty.' " (The Gospel According to St. Luke 17:7-10,NIV)

What we do in the furtherance of God's kingdom is to be seen by us as nothing more than what we should do. There is to be no imaginings of stars in our crowns (or crowns, for that matter), earning a place closer to God's throne, or paying our own way into heaven. The only reward that we are to realistically see as being attained as a result of our works is the successful completion of those works.

But we cannot do everything that we should do, and with God there is no such thing as 'good enough'. So God, The Author of Justice, showed us that he is also The Epitome of Mercy. What we could never accomplish, namely, our salvation, he himself accomplished for us:

"Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin."

"But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished - he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus." (Romans 3:19-26,NIV)

An example of 'believing in (faith)' versus 'believing that' is this one:

A famous tightrope walker announced that he would walk across a deep canyon on a cable stretched from one side to the other. The date and time were widely circulated, so on that day there were 2,000 spectators waiting for him at the canyon. He traversed the cable easily, and then approached them.

"Who here believes that I can carry him across this canyon on my back?" he asked. Immediately all 2,000 spectators raised their hands. Then he asked, "Who here volunteers to let me carry him across this canyon on my back?" Immediately every hand of the spectators went down, except for one. The 1,999 believed 'that' he could carry them across a dangerous canyon; only one believed 'in' his ability to carry him across it. That is faith.

 

[Doveaman]

Which part of Hebrews 4 says that the sabbath was re-designated. I just went through it and I didn't see any reference to such a thing occuring.

Now with whom was He angry forty years?...(Israel)...And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest...?...(Israel)

So we see that they (Israel) could not enter in...For we who have believed do enter that rest...although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. For...God rested on the seventh day from all His works...

Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those (Israel) to whom it was first preached did not enter...For if Joshua had given them rest, then He would not afterward have spoken of another day...Heb 3:17-4:10.

Israel observed the Seventh-day rest under Moses and they also entered the Promise Land rest in Canaan under Joshua where they continued to observe the Seventh-day rest in the Promised Land, but Hebrews 3 and 4 speaks of a rest that Israel did not enter, a rest they never experienced, and a rest that occurs on "another day".

How do you explain that?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

There remains therefore a rest for the people of God. For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His...Heb 3:17-4:10.

Israel kept the seventh-day Sabbath rest and they entered the promise land rest in Canaan, but Hebrews 3 and 4 speaks of a rest they did not enter, a rest they never kept, and a rest that occurs on "another day".

How do you explain that?

Sounds a lot like those in Reve 14:11 to me

Hebrews 4:3 For we are entering into the Rest, the ones-believing. According to as He declared, 'As I have sware in My wrath, if they shall be entering into the Rest of Me' and-those the works from down-casting of world being become. [Psalm 95:11]

Revelation 14:11 And the smoke of the tormenting of them is ascending into Ages to-Ages.
And not they are having Rest day and night [Matt 11:29/Hebrew 4:3]

 

[Doveaman]

Jesus Christ himself taugt that we are to expect nothing whatsoever as a reward for our obedience...The only reward that we are to realistically see as being attained as a result of our works is the successful completion of those works.

If any man builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, his work will be shown for what it is...If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward...1 Cor 3:12-14.

Serve wholeheartedly, as if you were serving the Lord, not men, because you know that the Lord will reward everyone for whatever good he does...Eph 6:7-8.

Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart, as working for the Lord, not for men, since you know that you will receive an inheritance from the Lord as a reward...Col 3:23-24.

Do my eyes deceive me, or are those rewards?

 

[visionary]

How else do you worship the Creator of heaven and earth?

Revelation 14:7
Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

 

[BrightCandle]

Remember what happened to the young man who went to sleep while Paul preached in till midnight? He fell to his death!! Wake up and hear the truth!

 

[Tu Es Petrus]

Remember what happened to the young man who went to sleep while Paul preached in till midnight? He fell to his death!! Wake up and hear the truth!

I'm still waiting for someone to post some truth. You sure ain't doin' it.

 

[BrightCandle]

Now with whom was He angry forty years?...(Israel)...And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest...?...(Israel)

So we see that they (Israel) could not enter in...For we who have believed do enter that rest...although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. For...God rested on the seventh day from all His works...

Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those (Israel) to whom it was first preached did not enter...For if Joshua had given them rest, then He would not afterward have spoken of another day...Heb 3:17-4:10.

Israel observed the Seventh-day rest under Moses and they also entered the Promise Land rest in Canaan under Joshua where they continued to observe the Seventh-day rest, but Hebrews 3 and 4 speaks of a rest that Israel did not enter, a rest they never experienced, and a rest that occurs on "another day".

How do you explain that?

That "another day" that you refer to wasn't Sunday, that's for sure! It was never blessed by God to be a "rest day". I've got to leave for Sabbath worship, and I'll post later this afternoon, more explanation of Heb.4.

 

[Tu Es Petrus]

I've got to leave for Sabbath worship

Have some Matzah Balls for me while you're there, and say Hi to the Rabbi.