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Featured Would you still be a Christian without the incentive of Heaven?

Discussion in 'Christian Philosophy & Ethics' started by bettercallpaul, Aug 26, 2017.

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  1. RDKirk

    RDKirk Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner Supporter

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    Basic Trinitarian doctrine.
     
  2. RDKirk

    RDKirk Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner Supporter

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    That's very explicitly talking about the Person of Christ in the flesh, not the bible.
     
  3. bettercallpaul

    bettercallpaul Full- time Catholic

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    I guess you'd prefer a humourless Heaven too.
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2017
  4. RDKirk

    RDKirk Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner Supporter

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    What does that have to do with anything I've said?

    BTW, I expect we will spend very little time actually in heaven...but scripture doesn't tell us much about it.
     
  5. bettercallpaul

    bettercallpaul Full- time Catholic

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    Don't be so shocked. That people are allowed to use their imaginations and think outside the square. We're not dishonouring God/Jesus Christ by pondering this. We are showing what length our love will go for Him. The Lord of scripture showed so many ways, the lengths He was prepared to go for us. I think God would be pleased to see our responses either way.
     
  6. disciple1

    disciple1 Newbie

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    No Jesus is the bible in the flesh, everyone should pray for understanding on that.
    Without the bible everyone is lost, and would just listen to pastors, who know nothing, because they study the bible enough to get money, that they don't deserve.
     
  7. bettercallpaul

    bettercallpaul Full- time Catholic

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    There's some pastors on CF who read this.
     
  8. disciple1

    disciple1 Newbie

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    Everyone study the bible it got nothing good to say about pastors.

    Hosea chapter 4


    6 my people are destroyed from lack of knowledge.

    “Because you have rejected knowledge,
    I also reject you as my priests;
    because you have ignored the law of your God,
    I also will ignore your children.
     
  9. bettercallpaul

    bettercallpaul Full- time Catholic

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    I only studied Hosea last week! How appropriate for this thread! The depth of God's love to search for Gomer.
     
  10. Bonbon87

    Bonbon87 New Member

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    I agree. I may not take on the title of Christian, but I do think that Heaven, at least the idea of it that we are taught, does seem kinda...not really boring. More of a loss of control and personality like you said. Cause if we lose our personality, who are we then?
     
  11. thetruth0

    thetruth0 Member

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    The GOD of Creation made it clear the things we must do. It has also been made clear that we are in the fallen nature. It has also been made clear that we are returning to where we come from. We are not Christians because we chose to be, we are from Heaven to begin with - Children of the kingdom.

    Heaven is our home. When the GOD spoke of the blind, the poor, the sick, the homeless, the naked HE was talking about HIS children who need to fed with the WORD, clothed with Glory Rainment, their eyes need to be opened, they must put on immortality, they don't belong in the fallen nature or in the fallen earth.

    I am shocked, not because you wanted to use your imagination, but because you seemed to have not understood that Heaven is not a reward, it is our Home. Before the fall, Earth was not terrestrial, it became terrestrial in the fall. Thus it was not a fallen world before the fall. Eden is a heavens World, which is in Heaven.

    So to say that we are only Christians because of the incentive being Heaven, is simply not true, and is a lie.
     
  12. disciple1

    disciple1 Newbie

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    If you study the bible you don't have to listen to someone who doesn't know what their talking about.

    Look at these verses.

    Matthew chapter 4 verse 4
    Jesus answered, "It is written: 'Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.'"
    Romans chapter 1 verse 28
    Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done.

    John chapter 8 verse 31,32
    To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, " If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.
    2 John
    9 Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son.
    Job chapter 23 verse 12
    I have not departed from the commands of his lips; I have treasured the words of his mouth more than my daily bread.

    Matthew 11
    28 “Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.”
    Luke chapter 21
    33 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.
    Romans chapter 10
    17 Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ.
    Mark chapter 13
    31 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.
    James chapter 1
    25 But whoever looks intently into the perfect law that gives freedom, and continues in it—not forgetting what they have heard, but doing it—they will be blessed in what they do.
    James chapter 4
    8 Come near to God and he will come near to you. Wash your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded.
    Isaiah chapter 45 verse 19
    I have not spoken in secret, from somewhere in a land of darkness; I have not said to Jacob's descendants, 'Seek me in vain.' I, the LORD, speak the truth; I declare what is right.
    Jeremiah chapter 9
    24 but let the one who boasts boast about this:
    that they have the understanding to know me,
    that I am the Lord, who exercises kindness,
    justice and righteousness on earth,
    for in these I delight,”
    declares the Lord.
    Jeremiah chapter 5 verse 1
    5 “Go up and down the streets of Jerusalem,
    look around and consider,
    search through her squares.
    If you can find but one person
    who deals honestly and seeks the truth,
    I will forgive this city.
     
  13. bettercallpaul

    bettercallpaul Full- time Catholic

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    I respect theologians though. I cant possibly know all the angles historically, culturally and so on. I couldn't survive without well-informed commentaries as well.
     
  14. thetruth0

    thetruth0 Member

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    and yet that knowledge only comes to the church through HIS mouthpiece, a Prophet. The bible is not the way, else the GOD would not have seek me, HE would have simply said, read the bible. Instead HE said

    You think ye have life in the scriptures and it is they which testify of me. To a group who studied the Torah, and all that was written.

    the GOD sent Prophets unto the Church to reveal the LOGOS to the Church in each dispensation. We as HIS children are expected to know HIS voice, and who HE has sent as HIS mouthpiece.
    truly, My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge.
     
  15. bettercallpaul

    bettercallpaul Full- time Catholic

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    But why the narrow gate metaphor? Why should it be so difficult to go back home? If its our home, it shouldn't matter how we live our life now.
     
  16. Bonbon87

    Bonbon87 New Member

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    Are you referring to ghosts? Or rather spirits that have unfinished business to take care of on Earth, or that want to see their families? Or when you say assignments as in God asks you to be a messenger for him to a person who still lives on Earth? (I apologize for all the questions, I'm honestly curious and I ask a lot of questions normally xD)
     
  17. disciple1

    disciple1 Newbie

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    John chapter 5
    36 “I have testimony weightier than that of John. For the works that the Father has given me to finish—the very works that I am doing—testify that the Father has sent me. 37 And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. You have never heard his voice nor seen his form, 38 nor does his word dwell in you, for you do not believe the one he sent. 39 You study[c] the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me, 40 yet you refuse to come to me to have life.
     
  18. thetruth0

    thetruth0 Member

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    The narrow gate is the path to eternal life - which means not tasting death at all as Enoch and Elijah never tasted death. These are the few that have found it thus far, and this was before the Crucifixion. If it meant dying first, then saying that it is eternal would be a lie.

    The broad gate is all those who die and need to be resurrected.

    There is a reason why it is written:
    Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of Man, and drink HIS blood, ye have no life in you. This is talking about eating the WORD, undiluted, not the ritual of communion. And it saying from the Son of Man. the GOD in HIS incarnate Manifestation is not the Son of Man. HE is the GOD who created Man. Which Man is HIS father? The Son of Man, is the Son of Lord Adam H.E, the Son of GOD, and that is Elijah.

    Thus, Elijah will have the restored Gospel, because he is the one to restore all things, the restitutioner and the people which Hearken unto his voice shall be saved from death, while the ones that dont will be crushed at the return of GOD the Son.

    We are supposed to be Spiritual People as Christians, all we do in this Earth earns our office in Heaven. If you chose death, then you will be resurrected and will inherit the new earth. IF you choose life, and hearken unto this voice, then you will make the 3rd Heaven Eden. However, all children of the kingdom are saved from the lake of fire, and will return to their home, Heaven.

    Read: Acts 3:19-23, Malachi 4:4-6, Rev 10:7, John 16:12-15 1 Cor 15:50-58, John 8:51-52, Ezekiel 37.
     
  19. thetruth0

    thetruth0 Member

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    Thank you for clarifying what i was saying. It is the Prophet, who is sent that has the keys to unlocking the codes of the bible, so that the Spirit in the WORD is revealed to HIS children. Without a Prophet, the WORD and its meaning is concealed, because the GOD who concealed HIS WORD is the only one who can reveal what HE has concealed.
     
  20. disciple1

    disciple1 Newbie

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    I think this is misunderstood scripture.
     
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