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Featured Would you still be a Christian without the incentive of Heaven?

Discussion in 'Christian Philosophy & Ethics' started by bettercallpaul, Aug 26, 2017.

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  1. Constantine the Sinner

    Constantine the Sinner Well-Known Member

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    No, he clearly does since the Old Testament has a ton of rubrics for them, and Revelation describes the angels as using them.
     
  2. thetruth0

    thetruth0 Member

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    How can i explain this to someone that does not know that the rituals which the Jews Practised were not of GOD? And the rituals that the Catholics practice are also not of GOD.

    This World knows not the GOD of Creation. The GOD who said NOT to practice divination of any kind! The GOD who said that you shall consume no blood. The GOD who said that HE desires Mercy, not sacrifice. The GOD who said thou shalt not Kill, the GOD who said ye are the light in this world.

    Rituals are a of the Occult. They are Occultic practices, they are not of GOD.
     
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  3. Constantine the Sinner

    Constantine the Sinner Well-Known Member

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    Then you don't think God inspired the Old Testament? Because the Old Testament gives lengthy, detailed instructions for conducting rituals. These instructions were given by Moses. Do you think they were inspired, or not?
     
  4. thetruth0

    thetruth0 Member

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    The bible we have today, has been through alot from the scrolls to the first book, However, it is not that, it is that the Jews did not accurately interpret what the GOD was saying. Which is why you read all through the OT, that the Prophets as the Mouthpieces of GOD, were telling them off! Were telling them to turn from their wicked ways, and return to the LORD your GOD who delivered them out of Egypt.

    How can you accept that the GOD said the things which ive said in the last post, but yet does them HIMSELF? Where is the righteousness in that? Where is the Holiness in that? the GOD is the Most Holy, the Most Compassionate, the Most Righteous, the Most High, the ALL forgiving GOD, the Impregnable GOD, the Most loving GOD. Yet, you accept that HE does things out of HIS own Character?
     
  5. Constantine the Sinner

    Constantine the Sinner Well-Known Member

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    God was not upset at them for following the rituals and ceremonies he gave them, but for following them while having filthy hearts or being immoral or apostasy, and later, with Christ, for introducing all sorts of nitpicking legal obligations for how to conduct your life that were onerous and impossible to remember, often while ignoring extremely important moral issues.
     
  6. thetruth0

    thetruth0 Member

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    The GOD is not double tongued. HE told them countless times to repent of their wicked ways. The GOD did not give them rituals, HIS WORD was not interpreted accurately. What about what HE said through Isaiah the Prophet?

    Isaiah 1:12-17
    To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the LORD: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.

    12When ye come to appear before me, who hath required this at your hand, to tread my courts?

    13Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me; the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting.

    14Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them.

    15And when ye spread forth your hands, I will hide mine eyes from you: yea, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear: your hands are full of blood.

    16Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes; cease to do evil;

    17Learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow.
     
  7. disciple1

    disciple1 Newbie

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    I guess your the only one that understands then, guess I should throw away my bible and listen to you.
     
  8. disciple1

    disciple1 Newbie

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    I guess your the only one that understands then, guess I should throw away my bible and listen to you.
     
  9. disciple1

    disciple1 Newbie

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  10. disciple1

    disciple1 Newbie

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  11. disciple1

    disciple1 Newbie

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  12. mark kennedy

    mark kennedy Natura non facit saltum Supporter

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    I'm a Christian because of Jesus Christ, part of that is his preaching on heaven and hell. If it were just this life I would accept that we all make our way to the grave and we have a choice between right and wrong, life or death. The Old Testament didn't promise heaven and certainly nothing like the New Testament teachings regarding hell. When the prophets testified to why they did their thing invariably it was because they were commanded to by God himself. The choice is between life and death, and whether that included heaven and hell I would still choose life, because I choose to worship and serve the author of life.

    Grace and peace,
    Mark
     
  13. RDKirk

    RDKirk Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner Supporter

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    Colossians 1 implies to me that "I am the gate" is not a metaphor, but is actually literal...that Jesus is literally the gate through whom everything that had been modeled in the mind of the Father was made manifest in the material universe.

    And because everything in this universe entered this universe from the mind of the Father through Christ, then contact with the Father can only be through the gate everything originally came--Christ.

     
  14. bettercallpaul

    bettercallpaul Full- time Catholic

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    Jesus called himself a shepherd, a gate, a light. Some of the most theologically important words in the Bible are figures of speech. We should not interpret them literally, because they aren't meant to be read literally.
     
  15. bettercallpaul

    bettercallpaul Full- time Catholic

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    I agree God doesn't want our phoney legalism. He wants our hearts. btw, what Catholic rituals are you annoyed by? The Mass and Eucharistic real presence are more than just rituals.
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2017
  16. thetruth0

    thetruth0 Member

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    annoyed, there are many in all churches that are in the world (Sodom and Egypt) which im annoyed by. Smiles...

    But to answer your question, and i can see that you are a catholic, Catholicism is a mixture of Christianity and Mysticism. As you have well stated, most of what they do is Ritualistic. SO if you agree that the GOD is not a Ritualistic GOD, then who are the Catholics doing those Rituals for?
     
  17. bettercallpaul

    bettercallpaul Full- time Catholic

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    I don't compare the Mass to those examples in the OT. That is sacrilege. You need to study up on what the Mass actually is. Its much deeper than a ritual. Its never too late to come over to the "dark" side. :) I recommend it.
     
  18. thetruth0

    thetruth0 Member

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    I am not a member of any religion. religion means back to bondage. And i will explain why.
    Re - back to
    Legion - the name of the many demons which had the man in bondage.
    Thus, religion is bondage.

    But no, anything that is Ritualistic is not of GOD. There is a reason why it is written that there will be a Prophet, like unto Moses, and all that do not hearken unto the voice of that prophet will be destroyed of the face of the earth. Acts 3:19-23

    It is also written:

    Behold i send Elijah, who will turn the hearts of their fathers back to their children, and the hearts of the children to their fathers. Lest i come and smite the earth with a curse.

    The GOD does not want rituals, HE did not give the Prophets Rituals to perform, nor to teach them. HE has been the same yesterday, today and forever, and HIS message has been the same - Return Home to me alive.

    Death is not the route to Heaven. The GOD is the GOD of the living. HE is not in the land of the dead. And HE showed that when HE resurrected Lazarus. HE did not need to go to where dead people are, to resurrect him.

    What HE wants is for HIS children to KNOW HIM. Not just believe HE exists, or have faith in that belief, but to truly know the GOD as a bride knows her husband. That is when our Hearts possess the mind of Christ. Just saying nice words, or speaking words you heard without revelation knowledge as to why you should speak them, is not knowing the GOD, rather, it is speaking in ignorance.

    The Prophets, who came before spoke of the GOD in knowledge. They spoke with authority because the WORD of GOD is judgemental, it is Authoritative. The GOD wants you to know HIM, HIS ways, HIS character. For if you know HIS character, how can you be deceived by someone telling you something different about HIM? The ones that cannot be deceived are the ones that KNOW HIM.
     
  19. Shempster

    Shempster ImJustMe Supporter

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    I grew up around ritual. I'll admit I was opposed to them from a very young age....call me rebellious if you want, but to me, ritual is like giving your spouse a list of things you like and don't like then insisting they DO things you like and DON'T DO things you don't like.
    It might make a selfish, egotistical man happy but where would the love be? Where would the relationship be?
     
  20. Monk Brendan

    Monk Brendan Well-Known Member Supporter

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    If Jesus showed up in a vision today and told me that I had been "elected" to go to hell, I would still follow Him. I would go to hell praising Jesus, and I would make so much noise about it, and try to evangelize everybody there. If I did that loud enough, and long enough, the devil would kick me out of hell, and I would have to go to heaven.

    I know that that is a flip answer, but really, what else could I do?
     
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