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Featured Would you still be a Christian without the incentive of Heaven?

Discussion in 'Christian Philosophy & Ethics' started by bettercallpaul, Aug 26, 2017.

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  1. bettercallpaul

    bettercallpaul Full- time Catholic

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    But those who really get the short straw in life, who suffer daily either physically or otherwise, they deserve a better place after this life, whether they are Christian or not.
     
  2. Tree of Life

    Tree of Life Hide The Pain Supporter

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    No. No one should be a Christian without the hope of eternal life with Jesus.
     
  3. MournfulWatcher

    MournfulWatcher In the beginning was the Word.

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    I think it's impossible to be a Christian without heaven. The idea demeans God's plan for humans; why die on the cross in torment for the dust of the earth, here today, gone tomorrow? God made us originally to be able to live in His full presence forever, but it was sin that enabled death. We live the Christian life because it is what God made us for, and so that we may join Him in His full presence once again, which is what He wants for us.

    If we look at Heaven as just a place to finally get all that treasure we wanted in our mortal lives, then we are looking at Heaven wrong. God made us to be with Him. Heaven is not an "incentive" to make us do good, but a goal to reach to be with God.

    Basically what I'm saying is that it's kind of a pointless question in my eyes.
     
  4. dqhall

    dqhall Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Matthew 19:29 Everyone who has left houses, or brothers, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, will receive one hundred times, and will inherit eternal life.

    I remember reading about Palm Sunday; Mark 11:1-11. Jesus was riding a donkey down the Mt. of Olives, into the Kidron Valley and up to the gates of Jerusalem on the way leading to the Herodian temple on Mt. Moriah. The crowd was took palm branches and cloaks, then laid them down on the path in front of him to soften the steps of his donkey. They were saying, Hosana! There was great joy and celebration for what Jesus had been doing.

    It is not all good times for Christians, but even Paul seemed to be filled with courage during his trial in Caesarea where he appealed to Caesar. By that time he had been on three journeys around the Eastern Mediterranean teaching people about Jesus and witnessing a great revival. It is important for us all to learn these scriptures and how to practice them; how to live them.

    Like the Kingdom of Heaven is today.
     
  5. TrueBornAgain

    TrueBornAgain Member

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    "Maybe the Heaven idea was created for those having a real tough time of it here" That seems to suggest man created the idea of Heaven, is that your belief ?

    Can people rationalize Christian doctrines by thinking alone and doubting the word of God, without Biblical reference and, still be relevant to understanding God who is unfathomable ?

    I don't think so. It seems a pointless question; if there is a God then there is Heaven, and most people are here on CF because they are more than convinced God exists and has a plan for his children, whom He created.

    I understand the question but to entertain it as a valid question would show God that I am not a trusting believer in His plan, which I am.

    Regardless of how hard things may be, if we doubt and questions God's plan, we have little faith, and He see's all. Heaven is a quarantine house for God, Holy Spirit, Jesus, and chosen souls to abide.

    Was the word of God sent to deceive you from Hell ? No, it was to save you from Hell ! As was Yeshua/Jesus - Rest assured !

    Gen_1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

    Deu_4:39 Know therefore this day, and consider it in thine heart, that the LORD he is God in heaven above, and upon the earth beneath: there is none else.

    Deu_10:14 Behold, the heaven and the heaven of heavens is the LORD'S thy God, the earth also, with all that therein is.

    1Ki_22:19 And he said, Hear thou therefore the word of the LORD: I saw the LORD sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing by him on his right hand and on his left.

    Pro_21:30 There is no wisdom nor understanding nor counsel against the LORD.
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2017
  6. Instrument150

    Instrument150 Active Member

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    But if this concept is removed, you have created a false god in your mind to consider worshiping for a few moments before you come back to reality
     
  7. Shempster

    Shempster ImJustMe Supporter

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    You nailed it there....the rewards are given out now. The rewards are the fruit of the spirit. What better reason to think and act like Jesus and being rewarded with an abundant life full of blessings?
     
  8. bettercallpaul

    bettercallpaul Full- time Catholic

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    I feel sorry for the ones who have an awful time of it hereon earth though. Through no fault of their own, I mean.
     
  9. Paul of Eugene OR

    Paul of Eugene OR Finally Old Enough Supporter

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    Yes. It shall be made up to them. But it is not good that any should suffer.
     
  10. bettercallpaul

    bettercallpaul Full- time Catholic

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    Maybe its Jesus in disguise.
     
  11. JesusLovesOurLady

    JesusLovesOurLady Slave of the Handmaid of the Lord

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    It's BOTH AND!

    The purpose of our existence is loving union with God for all eternity, period. You cannot contrast loving God here, with loving in eternity, except in regards to dealing with sin in this life. If you separate loving God on earth, with loving God in Heaven, or remove one or the other, than Christianity makes no sense!

    The purpose of the Gospel, the purpose of the Faith, and the purpose of the Church, is to help us fulfill the purpose of our existence, which is Union with God.
     
  12. claninja

    claninja Well-Known Member

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    Without the Lord, we would not exist, so any time with our creator is a blessing, whether it is finite or infinite.
     
  13. bettercallpaul

    bettercallpaul Full- time Catholic

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    I guess my purpose in starting this thread is to question our motivation for being a Christian. If we truly love God in a "selfless" way, we wouldnt expect any reward from Him.
     
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  14. Paul of Eugene OR

    Paul of Eugene OR Finally Old Enough Supporter

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    We present our suffering to God and ask "why?" He does not take away all suffering, but he suffers with us, first and foremost on the cross for us all.
     
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  15. nonaeroterraqueous

    nonaeroterraqueous Nonexistent Member

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    I'll explain it with a story. A man is busy typing a very evil story. The theme is dark, and the moral is backward. The entire thing is slanderous. Halfway through the story he has a change of heart and deletes the whole thing. He starts over. He begins to write a beautiful story with a redeeming plot. It glorifies God. He's very pleased with himself for what he is doing, but then the power goes out suddenly. None of his work was saved. Should he feel a sense of accomplishment for having written a good story? He did actually write one, you know.

    Now, I know what you're thinking. Our lives make a lasting impact. The effects of our actions outlive us. Yes, they do, but not for very long. The effects of our decisions, today, are not long in getting drowned out by the decisions of the next generation. In four generations it will be pure luck if anyone remembers your name, much less what you did. A mortal's work on other mortals is, itself, just as mortal.

    A man died in the year 1885. His grave was marked by a slab of concrete now eroded beyond reading, somewhere in a mountain town where few people go. If he has no afterlife, then he doesn't care how he lived. His life was just as meaningless and he's just as dead as the next guy. The fungus that works on the last ort of his flesh isn't going to be a prettier shade of green, nor will it smell any less vile.

    So, to answer your question I say this: I would have lived to the best of my ability as a good Christian, though probably not as well, and I likely would have ended it sooner. A strictly mortal life is meaningless, and a meaningless life need not persist.

    You're right about the extrinsic and intrinsic rewards, but Heaven is not just an extrinsic reward. A pretty picture should have intrinsic value because of its inherent beauty, but a pretty picture in a frame actually has more value than the same picture in a magazine. The difference is in the expectation of permanence. One goes on the wall, and the other goes in the trash.
     
  16. MonstersvsMartyrs

    MonstersvsMartyrs Member

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    I asked myself this question once: If God asked me to go to Hell for Him, would I do it? Yeah, I pray I would have the courage to do that. Afterall, He did for me.
     
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  17. Anguspure

    Anguspure Kaitiaki Peacemakers NZ Supporter

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    If all that awaits me is eternal destruction, and this life is the only one I will get then I've got a whole lot of outrageous, irresponsible and almost certainly un-Loving fun to have before I start worrying about what anyone, including the Creator wants me to do.

    All of my life I have been surrounded by people who have had great lives without a single regard for anything apart from what they see right in their own eyes, while I and other God fearers and followers have sat po-faced warning them of the negative consequences of their actions.

    But if all there is for all of us is negative consequences, may as well be done for a sheep as a lamb as they say.
     
  18. Tolworth John

    Tolworth John Well-Known Member

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    Are peoplemotivated by heaven?

    0For me it was the realisation that the resurection was trus that made a difference. That I could be in a relationship with God that was not one of always pleasing for forgiveness and never knowing I had it.

    The resurection is more than a promise of heaven, it is also an assurance that we are forgiven, accepted byGod and are part of his family.

    It also follows that as God is eturnal then we to will be eturnal with him in heaven.
     
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  19. SAAchristian757

    SAAchristian757 Member

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    1 Cor 15:17 "And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins." It's a package deal. If there is no resurrection or heaven then the Christian life is vain.

    For me, no I wouldn't. My christian experience has not been all that rosy as it seems to be for others.
     
  20. SAAchristian757

    SAAchristian757 Member

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    I expect Him to keep His promises!
     
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