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World's most sensitive dark matter detector finds nothing (again). :(

Michael

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The planets are accelerating towards the Sun, and it is only their lateral velocity which prevents them from ploughing into it. So whereabouts in the universe is your "sun", and where are your "planets".

Centers of masses exist pretty much everywhere in an infinite and eternal universe. As long as objects stay in motion, there's no reason to believe that any major amount of additional energy is necessary to keep things in continuous obit around one another. Our planet isn't going to immediately plow into the sun without EM fields. It "could" lose momentum over time, but as long as it's offset with anything, it's going to remain in a pretty consistent orbit.
 
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Michael

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Do you mean he made the astounding discovery that charged particles are accelerated in an electric field?

Not *just* that, but that's also one of his observations/predictions. :)


You'll note that his model predicts a *spherical* corona, and planetary aurora, as well as various aspects of solar wind particle acceleration.

Well, I would have thought that fact was pretty generally known.

Maybe, but I'm not sure how it worked in a vacuum around a spherical object, with various sphere textures, various internal magnetic field orientations, etc.

The only problem is that galaxies are not charged particles.

Well, according to Birkeland the surface would be "charged" with respect to interstellar space, and every sun in those galaxies would all tend to be have charged surfaces.
 
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lesliedellow

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Centers of masses exist pretty much everywhere in an infinite and eternal universe. As long as objects stay in motion, there's no reason to believe that any major amount of additional energy is necessary to keep things in continuous obit around one another. Our planet isn't going to immediately plow into the sun without EM fields. It "could" lose momentum over time, but as long as it's offset with anything, it's going to remain in a pretty consistent orbit.

Our galaxy is due to collide with Andromeda. They are not orbiting one another.
 
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lesliedellow

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Well, according to Birkeland the surface would be "charged" with respect to interstellar space, and every sun in those galaxies would all tend to be have charged surfaces.

If the surface of the Sun was electrically charged, then either positive or negative charges trying to leave the surface would get pulled back in, and yet the solar wind has been measured to be electrically neutral.
 
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Michael

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Our galaxy is due to collide with Andromeda. They are not orbiting one another.

Yet both galaxies orbit a center of mass related to our local galaxy cluster. You can't really say for sure that *any* structure in spacetime is "stationary".
 
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Michael

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If the surface of the Sun was electrically charged, then either positive or negative charges trying to leave the surface would get pulled back in, and yet the solar wind has been measured to be electrically neutral.

They do get pulled back to the surface, hence "coronal loops". Some of the material however is interacting directly with the heliosphere. Birkeland actually noticed a pattern of what we would today refer to as "sputtering", and he actually predicted that both types of charged particles would fly toward Earth from the sun.

He actually wrote a whole paper about it.
 
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Michael

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If the surface of the Sun was electrically charged, then either positive or negative charges trying to leave the surface would get pulled back in, and yet the solar wind has been measured to be electrically neutral.

FYI, the term "electrically neutral" does not tell the whole story of the particle flow pattern. They refer to the high speed electrons (AKA electron beams/cathode rays) as "Strahl". Those high speed electrons pass through any given meter of space "faster than" the rest of the solar wind. Even if every cubic meter of space contained exactly the same number of positively and negatively charged particles at any given moment in time, the total number of electrons passing through any given meter of space may still be greater than the total number of protons passing through that same cubic meter due to the speed differences between "Strahl" electrons and slower moving solar wind particles.
 
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Michael

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So how *exactly* would it be possible to falsify exotic cold dark matter theory?

A few years back the mainstream was betting the farm on WIMP theory, with a few holdouts that leaned toward axion dark matter, but both ideas have been put to the "test", and all of the tests came back negative. What's even left?

It seems to me that LCDM proponents are holding their collective breath and hoping for a miracle at LHC. None of the SUSY stuff panned out, and the original "excitement" about finding a new particle in the 750 Ghz range seems to be dying out now that more data is available.

https://www.sciencenews.org/article/hints-new-particle-rumored-fade-data-analysis-continues

In terms of mathematical models of "dark matter", what's even left at this point that hasn't already failed one or more 'tests'?
 
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lesliedellow

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So how *exactly* would it be possible to falsify exotic cold dark matter theory?

A few years back the mainstream was betting the farm on WIMP theory, with a few holdouts that leaned toward axion dark matter, but both ideas have been put to the "test", and all of the tests came back negative. What's even left?

It seems to me that LCDM proponents are holding their collective breath and hoping for a miracle at LHC. None of the SUSY stuff panned out, and the original "excitement" about finding a new particle in the 750 Ghz range seems to be dying out now that more data is available.

https://www.sciencenews.org/article/hints-new-particle-rumored-fade-data-analysis-continues

In terms of mathematical models of "dark matter", what's even left at this point that hasn't already failed one or more 'tests'?

At the risk of repeating myself, LCDM will last until it is either verified, against your expectations, or an alternative theory, able to command general agreement, comes along and does the job better than the current hypothesis.
 
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Michael

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At the risk of repeating myself, LCDM will last until it is either verified, against your expectations, or an alternative theory, able to command general agreement, comes along and does the job better than the current hypothesis.

Well, as that last paper I cited demonstrates, a static universe/tired light theory does at least an equal job of explaining the same basic data sets without the necessity of 4 supernatural constructs as is the case with LCDM theory. That fact alone makes it "better than" LCDM IMO.

What's most difficult to fathom is what makes anyone think that 'cold dark matter' theory wasn't a "bad short term fix" for what amounts to horrifically flawed baryonic mass estimates that were used in 2006? We've had *numerous* revelations of stellar miscounts since 2006, and every "lab test" of cold dark matter has been negative. If those "facts" won't kill "cold dark matter" theory, I see no way for the concept to ever be falsified. One of those revelations should have been enough, but when you look at both the stellar miscounts *and* the lab results since 2006, it's hard to see any remaining evidence to even support "cold dark matter" claims.
 
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To keep the universe stable would require the cosmological constant to have an effect that was exactly equal and opposite to that of gravity. The slightest bit weaker, and the universe would contract. The slightest bit stronger, and it would expand at an accelerating rate.

Only an EUer could see the relevance of an electric field.

IRON MAN
What's it look like in there?

CAPTAIN AMERICA
It seems to run on some form of
electricity.
 
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lesliedellow

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Well, as that last paper I cited demonstrates, a static universe/tired light theory does at least an equal job of explaining the same basic data sets without the necessity of 4 supernatural constructs as is the case with LCDM theory. That fact alone makes it "better than" LCDM IMO.

Now all you have got to do is persuade people who are actually qualified as astrophysicists that EU is not a load of old baloney. Apparently they are quite sure that it is.
 
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lesliedellow

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Yet both galaxies orbit a center of mass related to our local galaxy cluster. You can't really say for sure that *any* structure in spacetime is "stationary".

Stationary is a fairly meaningless idea, and it is not one I put forward. Stationary relative to what?

Even if we had a static universe (we don't) it would only need something like a single supernova to redistribute mass, and upset the incredibly delicate balance which was keeping everything in equilibrium. Presumably you have heard the one about the baby which threw a rattle out of its pram in Brazil, and caused a tsunami on the other side of the world.
 
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pat34lee

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General Relativity isn't based upon "dark magic" either.

It just fails to balance without adding pixie dust.
And it's pretty bad when you need more pixie dust
than all the known matter and energy in the universe.
 
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lesliedellow

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It just fails to balance without adding pixie dust.
And it's pretty bad when you need more pixie dust
than all the known matter and energy in the universe.

It is believed because it makes predictions, and those predictions are verified. Simple as that.
 
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Michael

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Now all you have got to do is persuade people who are actually qualified as astrophysicists that EU is not a load of old baloney. Apparently they are quite sure that it is.


I can actually show them *working* laboratory models that produce tangible results, *useful* predictions (real ones, not postdicted nonsense), and that have tangible application to solar physics, and Earth atmospheric physics.

I see no logical or useful reason to pursue the dark matter snipe hunt once again. I'd much rather we use the same scientists, the same facilities, the same infrastructure, and funding channels, etc on tangible empirical physics for a change, at least for a generation or two to see what we can come up with in terms of *tangible* explanations for events in spacetime.

At the moment, 95+ percent of what occurs in space is based upon a what amounts to a placeholder term for pure human ignorance, including a complete inability to name so much as a single source of "dark energy", or come up with a *useful* mathematical prediction for "dark matter".

IMO Birkeland knew more about solar physics, and spaceweather forecasting 100 years ago than most astrophysicists to this day. It's sad IMO that current physical models are based upon pure "pseudoscience" according to the Nobel Prize winning author of MHD theory. How sad is that?

What the mainstream *refuses* to understand about circuit theory as applied to astrophysics could fill volumes.

If the mainstream's basic knowledge is exemplified by their public blogs to date, all I can say is they are entirely ignorant of the basic concepts and principles associated with EU/PC theory. They can't even get the particle flow diagrams correct, or have a *clue* about the neutrino predictions of *various* EU/PC solar models.

I can't really educate them so long as they publicly and willfully misrepresent the basic concepts.
 
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Michael

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Stationary is a fairly meaningless idea, and it is not one I put forward. Stationary relative to what?

Even if we had a static universe (we don't) it would only need something like a single supernova to redistribute mass, and upset the incredibly delicate balance which was keeping everything in equilibrium. Presumably you have heard the one about the baby which threw a rattle out of its pram in Brazil, and caused a tsunami on the other side of the world.

You're talking about *relative* changes in a mass/energy distribution system composed of hundreds of *billions* of stars per galaxy, and hundreds of billions, if not an infinite number of galaxies.

In effect, even a supernova event is only a "local" event that might wipe out all life in a single solar system, maybe two or three at the most, but compared to the galaxy it sits in, and the galaxy mass/energy distribution system of an infinite universe, it's a minor cosmetic change, and fairly insignificant compared to the mass energy systems of the galaxy it occurs in.
 
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Michael

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It just fails to balance without adding pixie dust.
And it's pretty bad when you need more pixie dust
than all the known matter and energy in the universe.

Two points:

I would not blame GR theory for the sins of it's abusers. :) It's actually an elegant theory mathematically, and it has the potential to be an entirely empirical theory without the dark pixie dust of course. :)

The second point I would mention relates to a recent thread related to the attempt to replace GR theory with a QM oriented concept of gravity, essentially the holy grail of QM gravity theory. :)

http://www.thunderbolts.info/forum/...&t=16389&sid=14f7275fe102c9f23155ab5c083463f7

I haven't had time yet to read through the paper, but if indeed Newton's formulas for gravity, the same formulas that got us to the moon and back, and to other planets in our solar system, can be derived from the Heisenburg uncertainty principle, it's worth serious consideration, particularly in a relatively "static" universe as Hubble imagined it to be.

I would caution you however that GR theory may still be superior for predicting the orbit of Mercury and for predicting various plasma events in spacetime (speed limits for instance). I wouldn't rule out GR theory, but I wouldn't worship at it's altar either.

GR theory as Einstein taught it, is actually an elegant mathematical theory, and it may still be better in the long term scheme of things. However, keeping an open mind is a very good thing in science, and it would be refreshing to see some of that occur in astronomy for a change.
 
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pat34lee

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It is believed because it makes predictions, and those predictions are verified. Simple as that.

The problem is, they are working in reverse. Taking what we see,
hypothesizing about the past, and trying to force equations to tie
the two together. When it fails, they blame the math instead of
the beginning hypothesis or their limited understanding of such
phenomena as gravity.
 
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Michael

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I'm thinking Leslie that your concept of a "static" universe is a bit misguided. All the galaxies are rotating around a center of mass related to the local galaxy cluster it sits in. The stars of a given galaxy are all in motion around a heavy massive object at the center of every galaxy, and the planets rotate around the stars. It's not "static" as in "non moving", it's only moving and rotating in a relatively organized (and repetitive) pattern in organized mass energy concentrations. It's all in motion and it will remain in motion even if minor mass energy distributions take place from time to time.
 
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