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NewLifeInChristJesus

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I know this, but what steps do we need to take to go from the flesh to being born of the spirit. You keep quoting the end result, but not the solution to get there.
You say, "I know this", but I don't think we agree. Do you yourself now have "flesh" in you that "lusts against the Spirit"? Yes or no?
 
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SabbathBlessings

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You say, "I know this", but I don't think we agree. Do you yourself now have "flesh" in you that "lusts against the Spirit"? Yes or no?
This doesn't answer the question- my question was how do we get from walking in the flesh (sin) to walking in the Spirit according to God's Word. You keep quoting the end result, but don't seem to think we actual need to do anything to get there other than believing. The devil believes, but he will not be in God's eternal kingdom. Jesus tells us in His own Words not all who says Lord Lord (believers) will be in His Kingdom. Mat 7:21-23

Lets leave what I do or you do out of the conversation God knows what we all do, we can't hide anything from Him.

Ecc 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter:
Fear God and keep His commandments,
For this is man’s all.
14 For God will bring every work into judgment,
Including every secret thing,
Whether good or evil.
 
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NewLifeInChristJesus

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This doesn't answer the question- my question was how do we get from walking in the flesh (sin) to walking in the Spirit according to God's Word. You keep quoting the end result, but don't seem to think we actual need to do anything to get there other than believing. The devil believes, but he will not be in God's eternal kingdom. Jesus tells us in His own Words not all who says Lord Lord (believers) will be in His Kingdom. Mat 7:21-23

Lets leave what I do or you do out of the conversation God knows what we all do, we can't hide anything from Him.

Ecc 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter:
Fear God and keep His commandments,
For this is man’s all.
14 For God will bring every work into judgment,
Including every secret thing,
Whether good or evil.
I'll try again, leaving you out of it. Do you understand that after Jesus comes to live in a person's heart that he/she must still contend with his/her own flesh that "lusts against the Spirit"? I don't understand why you don't want to answer that question.

If you need an answer from me before you provide an answer to me, then the steps (in reverse order) are here:

10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For “whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved.”​
14 How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach unless they are sent?​

[The New King James Version (Ro 10:10–15). (1982). Thomas Nelson.]​

In chronological order, it is this:

God sends preachers to preach the gospel of salvation through Jesus Christ, people hear about Jesus who is the Savior, people believe in Him, people call on Him to save them, and Jesus saves everyone who calls on Him. Those are the steps.

From John 14, we see a different perspective, but very similar:

Jesus said (quoting from memory): No one can come to me unless the father who sent me draws them. Therefore everyone who has heard and learned from the father comes to me. And anyone who comes to m I will in no way cast out.

God is at work in every salvation experience. No one is saved without His involvement. And Jesus does the saving when people hear God, believe God is telling them th truth, and go to Jesus as God instructs. Jesus will in no way cast him out.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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I'll try again, leaving you out of it. Do you understand that after Jesus comes to live in a person's heart that he/she must still contend with his/her own flesh that "lusts against the Spirit"? I don't understand why you don't want to answer that question.
I asked you the question first, you keep getting to the end result, but not showing the steps how we get Jesus to live in our hearts, not walking in the flesh but walking in His Spirit without sin. It's a process and God's Word shows what the process is, we don't get there by just believing the promises, but doing our own thing, sinning daily without any consequences or need for sanctification in Jesus Christ -free from the bondage of sin and free walking in Christ in obedience to Him. It's a process and many never get past the first step of believing and think that's all there is to it despite Jesus rejecting this, that we don't have to do God's will and can walk in lawlessness.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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I'll try again, leaving you out of it. Do you understand that after Jesus comes to live in a person's heart that he/she must still contend with his/her own flesh that "lusts against the Spirit"? I don't understand why you don't want to answer that question.

If you need an answer from me before you provide an answer to me, then the steps (in reverse order) are here:

10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For “whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved.”​
14 How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach unless they are sent?​

[The New King James Version (Ro 10:10–15). (1982). Thomas Nelson.]​

In chronological order, it is this:

God sends preachers to preach the gospel of salvation through Jesus Christ, people hear about Jesus who is the Savior, people believe in Him, people call on Him to save them, and Jesus saves everyone who calls on Him. Those are the steps.

From John 14, we see a different perspective, but very similar:

Jesus said (quoting from memory): No one can come to me unless the father who sent me draws them. Therefore everyone who has heard and learned from the father comes to me. And anyone who comes to m I will in no way cast out.

God is at work in every salvation experience. No one is saved without His involvement. And Jesus does the saving when people hear God, believe God is telling them th truth, and go to Jesus as God instructs. Jesus will in no way cast him out.
I see you added more- so all we need to do is believe, but we can still sin and not obey His commandments?
 
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NewLifeInChristJesus

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I see you added more- so all we need to do is believe, but we can still sin and not obey His commandments?
I answered your question, I see you have additional questions, but before I answer your additional questions, please answer my question.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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I answered your question, I see you have additional questions, but before I answer your additional questions, please answer my question.
Do you understand that after Jesus comes to live in a person's heart that he/she must still contend with his/her own flesh that "lusts against the Spirit"
The Spirit does not live with someone who is disobedient to Him according to scripture.

The Spirit is given to convict of us sin John 16:8, if we have not seared the Spirit and stopped listening to His voice calling us out of rebellion and disobedience to Him Hebrews 3:7-8

The Spirit is given to guide us in all Truth, which is how we are sanctified, the Truth of God's Word John 17:17 Many don't want to come to the Truth because they prefer darkness (sin) and never come to the light. John 3:20-21

Jesus gives us the Spirit to help us obey Him but it requires our cooperation and is conditional

John 14:15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

The Spirit is given to those who obey

Acts 5:32 And we are His witnesses to these things, and so also is the Holy Spirit whom God has given to those who obey Him.”

So as we can see through scripture, it takes more than just believing saying Lord Lord, love and faith to Jesus is a call to action.

So no, I don't believe we can be in the flesh and walk in Jesus because we are told those in the flesh cannot please Him Romans 8:8 and those who lack love and faith do not keep His commandments 1 John 5:3 Romans 3:31

Belief is the first step, but we need to go through the sanctification process. We can come to Him just the way we are but as we grow in Him, we should want to do everything He ask of us through faith and love. Once we make the commitment to serve Christ first, we should get baptized, which is our outward expression that we are His and depend on Him for everything and in Him we become a new creature leaving our old life of sin, but if we slip and fall along the way, we can go to Him for forgiveness as He is our High Priest.

I also believe that we can overcome sin through Jesus Christ. His commandments are not meant to be burdensome 1 John 5:3 but meant to bless us and give us peace Isa 48:18

So can we be in Christ while being hostile to God's law? No. Belief is the first step, and true belief means trusting and doing God's Word, not just hearing it. We need a relationship with Jesus, a daily walk, taking up our cross and following Him, following the example of Jesus walking as He walked and while we may be tempted, He will give us an escape. If we slip and fall we have an Advocate with Jesus if we confess and turn to Him for forgiveness, but sin should not be in our daily walk. Forgiveness is not freedom to sin willfully, but if we lay our burdens to Jesus and ask His help in overcoming our sin- we can overcome through Jesus Christ- scripture shows us we can Rev 14:12 Rev 22:14 but when we are comfortable living in sin and don't take action to remove it, thats a dangerous place to be.
 
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NewLifeInChristJesus

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The Spirit does not live with someone who is disobedient to Him according to scripture.

The Spirit is given to convict of us sin John 16:8, if we have not seared the Spirit and stopped listening to His voice calling us out of rebellion and disobedience to Him Hebrews 3:7-8

The Spirit is given to guide us in all Truth, which is how we are sanctified, the Truth of God's Word John 17:17

Jesus gives us the Spirit to help us obey Him but it requires our cooperation and is conditional

John 14:15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

The Spirit is given to those who obey

Acts 5:32 And we are His witnesses to these things, and so also is the Holy Spirit whom God has given to those who obey Him.”

So as we can see through scripture, it takes more than just believing saying Lord Lord, love and faith to Jesus is a call to action.

So no, I don't believe we can be in the flesh and walk in Jesus because we are told those in the flesh cannot please Him Romans 8:8 and those who lack love and faith do not keep His commandments 1 John 5:3 Romans 3:31

I also believe that we can overcome sin through Jesus Christ. His commandments are not meant to be burdensome 1 John 5:3 but meant to bless us and give us peace Isa 48:18

So can we be in Christ while being hostile to God's law? No. Belief is the first step, and true belief means trusting and doing God's Word, not just hearing it.
Thank you for the answer. I do have a follow-up question if you will indulge me.

Romans 8:10 - "And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness."​

What does it mean that, "If Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin"?
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Thank you for the answer. I do have a follow-up question if you will indulge me.

Romans 8:10 - "And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness."​

What does it mean that, "If Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin"?
It means one has gained victory over sin and Christ dwells in our hearts. This is the same question you keep asking, its the end result, where we want to be and can get there through Jesus Christ. Belief is the first step, but we shouldn't stop there, we need to be doers of God's Word, not just hearers James 1:22 Rev 22:14.
 
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NewLifeInChristJesus

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It means one has gained victory over sin and Christ dwells in our hearts. This is the same question you keep asking, its the end result, where we want to be and can get there through Jesus Christ. Belief is the first step, but we shouldn't stop there, we need to be doers of God's Word, not just hearers James 1:22 Rev 22:14.
I didn't ask about the victory part of the sentence (the part about the Spirit being life because of righteousness). I asked about the death of the body due to it's sin. What does that part mean?
 
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SabbathBlessings

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I didn't ask about the victory part of the sentence (the part about the Spirit being life because of righteousness). I asked about the death of the body due to it's sin. What does that part mean?
There connected- death of sin means gaining victory over sin. Not sure why one would see this differently. If we are breaking God's law and sinning, it means we are not at this stage and we are still a slave to sin. Thats doesn't mean if we slip and fall we don't have an Advocate and High Priest we can go to, but our daily walk should not be living in sin.
 
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NewLifeInChristJesus

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There connected- death of sin means gaining victory over sin. Not sure why one would see this differently. If we are breaking God's law and sinning, it means we are not at this stage and we are still a slave to sin.
I think I see now. You're saying sin is dead, but the righteous spirit is alive, both because Jesus lives inside. Is that right?
 
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SabbathBlessings

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I think I see now. You're saying sin is dead, but the righteous spirit is alive, both because Jesus lives inside. Is that right?
Yes, through Christ, we can gain victory over sin. God's law, just shows us our sin Romans 3:20 Romans 7:7 so we can measure it and so we can depend on God's righteousness Psa 119:172 and not our own. The law just shows us our sin, Jesus gives us the solution. But we can't be perpetually sinning and living in Christ. He will work on us though His Spirit to convict us of sin, if we haven't closed ourselves off to His correction. Sadly, people believe we can sin (break God's law) and walk with Him, but its not what the scripture says. Romans 8:7-8 His Spirit is given so we can keep His commandments and requires our cooperation and given to those who obey Acts 5:32. It's a process, but one we can get there with a close relationship and daily walk with Christ, daily taking up our cross and following Him.
 
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NewLifeInChristJesus

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Yes, through Christ, we can gain victory over sin. God's law, just shows us our sin Romans 3:20 Romans 7:7 so we can measure it and so we can depend on God's righteousness Psa 119:172 and not our own. The law just shows us our sin, Jesus gives us the solution. But we can't be perpetually sinning and living in Christ. He will work on us though His Spirit to convict us of sin, if we haven't closed ourselves off to His correction. Sadly, people believe we can sin (break God's law) and walk with Him, but its not what the scripture says. Romans 8:7-8 His Spirit is given so we can keep His commandments and requires our cooperation and given to those who obey Acts 5:32. It's a process, but one we can get there with a close relationship and daily walk with Christ, daily taking up our cross and following Him.
Now I'm confused. You said sin was dead. Now you say the Spirit convicts us of sin. Is sin dead, or is it still there? I said it was there, but you accuse me of embracing sin when I say that.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Now I'm confused. You said sin was dead. Now you say the Spirit convicts us of sin. Is sin dead, or is it still there? I said it was there, but you accuse me of embracing sin when I say that.
Sin being dead is the goal- living with Christ. I have already explained the process in the post below


I'm not sure if you're reading my post you are replying to in context., It does not say living in Christ there is sin. A righteous man may slip and fall and sin, but he will get himself back up. Scripture gives us the process on what to do when this happens.

Anyway, I need to run. Take care,
 
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NewLifeInChristJesus

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Sin being dead is the goal- living with Christ. I have already explained the process in the post below


I'm not sure if you're reading my post you are replying to in context., It does not say living in Christ there is sin. A righteous man may slip and fall and sin, but he will get himself back up. Scripture gives us the process on what to do when this happens.

Anyway, I need to run. Take care,
Yes, this takes us back to where we started. There's no sense in going through it again.
 
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Studyman

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What we have here is a failure to communicate. If we agree that all men are sinners in need of a Savior, and that salvation is available to all only on the basis of Christ's sacrifice for our sins, then we agree on the main thing. This doesn't have much to do with the op ("works relation to salvation"), but maybe I misjudged the situation.

I was just pointing out that there were specific "Works" required "BY LAW" given by God to Moses, for justification that Abraham was not under. This "LAW" required for forgiveness was "ADDED" till the Seed should come, at which time this Law grew old and became obsolete.

The Pharisees were still requiring their version of this Priesthood Law, even after the SEED, God's Prophesied Priest, had come, because they didn't believe Moses, therefore, they didn't believe Jesus was that Priest.

Paul is explaining that it wasn't the killing of animals, or the "Works" of the old Priesthood Law that justified them. It was belief/Faith enough to trust God to guide their footsteps, and show them, "The way that they should go", or as it is written in another place, to "Walk in" the good Works god before ordained that we should walk in them.


The deceiver would have us believe the Pharisees were trying to get the New converts to Love God, and Love their neighbor, don't kill, don't steal, as the Law of Moses instructed, for their sins to be forgiven. But the Law never says any such thing.

That is why I asked you to go to the Law, and to find the "Works" which Moses required for forgiveness. Then you would know what the Pharisees were promoting, and why Paul and Jesus were so against it.

John 2: 13 And the Jews' passover was at hand, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem,

14 And found in the temple those that sold oxen and sheep and doves, and the changers of money sitting: 15 And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers' money, and overthrew the tables; 16 And said unto them that sold doves, Take these things hence; make not my Father's house an house of merchandise.

God's Law was never designed for men to purchase their forgiveness, and yet, that is the very religion the Pharisees created.

Zacharias, Simeon, Anna and the Wise men knew these things, because they believed Moses, and had Faith.

The Pharisees didn't.
 
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Bob S

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The definition that I used is the only one that the NAS Greek Lexicon listed being specifically in regard to the context of fulfilling the law, it fits with what Jesus immediately proceeded to do next after he said he came to fulfill the law, it fits with how other verses like Galatians 5:14, Galatians 6:2, and Romans 15:18-19 use the term, it fits with how other Jewish writings use the term, it fits with the concept of someone fulfilling their marriage vows by correctly doing what they vowed to do, and it even fits with the definitions #1-3 that you listed.

On the other hand, definition #4 is contrary to Jesus saying that he came not to abolish the law, it is contrary to Jesus warning against relaxing the least part of the law or teaching others to do that, it is contrary to what Jesus proceeded to do next after he said that he came to fulfill the law as well, it is contrary to what Jesus taught by word and by example throughout the rest of his ministry, it is contrary to how other verses like Galatians 5:14, Galatians 6:2, and Romans 15:18-19 use the term, it is contrary to verses like Romans 3:31, which says that our faith does not abolish God's law, but rather it upholds it and Psalms 119:160, which says that all of God's righteous laws are eternal, it is contrary to how other Jewish writings use the term, and there is nothing else in the Bible that says anything along the lines that fulfilling the Mosaic Law causes the Mosaic Covenant to end.

So you'll need to provide good reason for rejecting the definition I listed in favor of using #4.


Jesus said that not the least part would disappear from the law until heaven disappear and all is accomplished, neither of which has happened yet, both of which refer to end times (Revelation 22:1) or are ways of saying that it is never going to happen.


The Bible often uses the same terms to describe aspects of the nature of God as it does to describe aspects of the nature of God's law, such as with it being holy, righteous, and good (Romans 7:12), or with justice, mercy, and faithfulness being weightier matters of the law (Matthew 23:23), and this is because it is God's instructions for how to testify about those aspects of God's nature. For example, our good works testify about God's goodness, which is why they give glory to Him (Matthew 5:16), and by testifying about God's goodness, we are expressing the belief that God is good, or in other words, we are believing in Him. The only way that eternal instructions for how to testify about God's eternal goodness can be ended is if God is no longer eternally good, and the same is true of other aspects of God's nature.

So the set of laws that the God of Israel has given paint is a picture of His nature and serve as an identity marker. For example, if the God of Israel had instead commanded His people to commit adultery, then that would paint a very different picture of His nature and someone who followed a God who commanded that would not be following a God with the same identity as the God of Israel. So if the New Covenant were made with a different set of laws that the Mosaic Law, then it would be made with a different God with a different nature than that of the God of Israel, but it in reality it is made with the same God with the same nature and therefore the same Mosaic Law for how to testify about His nature (Jeremiah 31:33). In 1 Peter 1:16, we are instructed to be holy for God is holy, which is a quote from Leviticus where God was giving instructions for how to do that, which includes keeping His Sabbaths holy (Leviticus 19:2-3), so someone who refuses to obey His laws for how to be holy as He is holy is living in a way that testifies that the God that they follow is not holy, who therefore that their God does not have the same identity as the God of Israel.


The Mosaic Covenant teaching to love each other and believe in Jesus, so that is not a new plan. Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath, so that is part of his identify, and we should live in a way that testifies about the nature of who he is by keeping the Sabbath holy in obedience to God's command in accordance with the example that Jesus set for us to follow. When we do good works in obedience to the Mosaic Law, we are expressing our love for God's goodness, and by being holy as God is holy, we are expressing our love for God's holiness, so everything that the God of Israel has chosen to command was specially commanded for the purpose of teaching us how to love a different aspect of His nature, which is why there are many verses in both the OT and the NT that connect our love for God with our obedience to His commandments, and we can't love God by refusing to obey His instructions for how to love Him. Likewise, we can't believe in Jesus by refusing to obey God's instructions for how to believe in him, or in other words, we can't believe in God's word made flesh by refusing to obey God's word. We can't believe in Jesus by rejecting part of his identity.


In Exodus 12:38, there was a mixed multitude that went up out of Egypt with the Israelites, so there were Gentiles at the foot of Sinai, and in Joshua 8:33 Israel was inclusive of both the foreigner and the native born, so Gentiles are able to become followers of the God of Israel by following His law. All of God's covenants are in complete accordance with each other and the Mosaic Covenant is in accordance with the promise made as part of the Abrahamic Covenant. The obligation of Gentiles to refrain from sin is not dependent upon being part of a particular covenant is is dependent on God's sovereignty, and God has revealed what sin is through the Mosaic Law (Romans 3:20).


The you should agree that we are under the Law of Moses, but you argue against doing that, so you don't believe what he said.


If we love God and our neighbor, then we won't commit theft, murder, Idolatry, adultery, rape, kidnapping, favoritism, and so forth for everything else commanded in the Mosaic Law. Though ultimately God is sovereign, so someone would still obligated to obey God even if they don't love Him or their neighbor.


The Mosaic Law is the Royal Law of Love, so you are contradicting yourself. In 1 Peter 1:16, we are told to have a holy conduct for God is holy, which is a quote from Leviticus where God was giving instructions for how to do that, which includes laws that you've personally decided are ceremonial. Likewise, in 1 Peter 2:9-10, Gentiles are included as part of God's chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, and a treasure of God's own possession, which as terms uses to describe Israel (Deuteronomy 7:6), so Gentiles also have the delight of getting to obey the instructions that God gave to Israel for how to fulfill those roles. It is contradictory for a Gentiles to want to live as part of a holy nation while not wanting to follow God's instructions for how to live as part of a holy nation.


If we do not obey God's laws, then we are sinning and are acting immorally.


All of God's laws inherently deal with morality and for you to claim that some of God's laws do not deal with morality is to claim that God made an error about what ought to be done when He gave those laws. You personally deciding that someone of God's laws are in regard to civil duties, health, or ceremonies does not mean that they do not also deal with morality. For example, we have a civil duty to refrain from committing rape, but that is also a moral duty.


Paul said in Romans 3:31 that our faith does not abolish God's law, but rather our faith upholds yet, yet instead of upholding it, you seek to abolish it, so do you think that Paul lied? In Jeremiah 31:33, the New Covenant still involves following the Mosaic Law.


Again, I don't see any grounds for thinking that what Jesus commanded was contrary to what the Father has commanded, but rather Jesus is one with the Father. Jesus obeyed the Father's commands and he was not hypocritically suggesting that we should only do as he said, but not as he did.


Do you agree or disagree that we should follow what Psalms 119:142 says is truth? Jesus embodied what Psalms 119:142 says is truth by setting a sinless example for us to follow of how to walk in obedience to the Mosaic Law (John 14:6) and the way to follow the truth, to believe in Him, and to love like he commanded is not by refusing to follow his example.


In Exodus 12:48, a Gentile was required to become circumcised in order to eat of the Passover lamb.
I could argue all of your points and your scriptural "proofs", but Paul's letter to the Galatians makes anything I could argue would probably go right over your head.

Faith or Works of the Law​

3 You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. 2 I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard? 3 Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh? 4 Have you experienced so much in vain—if it really was in vain? 5 So again I ask, does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you by the works of the law, or by your believing what you heard? 6 So also Abraham “believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”

7 Understand, then, that those who have faith are children of Abraham. 8
Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: “All nations will be blessed through you.” 9 So those who rely on faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.

10 For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do
everything written in the Book of the Law.” 11 Clearly no one who relies on the law is justified before God, because “the righteous will live by faith.” 12 The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, it says, “The person who does these things will live by them.” 13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a pole.” 14 He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.

17 What I mean is this: The law, introduced 430 years later, does not set aside the covenant previously established by God and thus do away with the promise. 18 For if the inheritance depends on the law, then it no longer depends on the promise; but God in his grace gave it to Abraham through a promise.

19 Why, then, was the law given at all? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come. The law was given through angels and entrusted to a mediator. 20 A mediator, however, implies more than one party; but God is one.


It seems like the Jews were succeeding in persuading the Galatians to keep the old covenant laws like you are admonishing us to also do. Verse 13 tells us Christ redeemed us from the Law which parallels Matt 5 where Jesus said He came to fulfill the Law (bring it to an end). I rely on the Word to tell me what fulfill means and not some interpretation from someone else's thoughts. Verse 24 tells us we meaning the Jews, Gentiles were, of course, never under it, are no longer under it. 24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.

Paul in 2Cor3: verse 7 tells us the ten commandments were the ministry of death. It was a curse to the Jews, so how can it be a blessing to us. 7 Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory,
 
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Bob S

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Gal5: 13 You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love. 14 For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself. 15 If you bite and devour each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other.

16 So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17 For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever you want. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

19 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.


Allow the Spirit to Guide, not the old covenant law.

Jesus in Jn 15: 10-14 tells us He kept the Law given to the Jews. He admonishes to keep His law and that is to love others as He loves us, a new command.
 
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Icyspark

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Yes, I understand that. But I'm asking you what meaning you are taking away from what the Bible says :)


Yes, however they may also have overlapping meaning. Consider the English phrase "rules and regulations". What's the difference?

There is a difference in usage, but a lot of overlap in meaning.


Do the scriptures say that the entire law is divided up into just those four categories?


They are different in that they are given by different authorities and cover different geographical areas. But they are the same in that they govern behavior.


Several people have tried, but it usually breaks down and they stop answering. From my perspective, they stop answering when the questions get difficult.

Here's a link to an example.


Sounds great!


Whatever seems good to you :heart:


Hi Leaf473,

It seemed good to me to start a new thread which goes into great detail explaining the differences between the Ten and the 603.

God bless!

But for the grace of God go I,cyspark
 
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