Works Relation to Salvation

[BNR32FAN]

I don't know as I have never felt any guilt about not observing anything to do with the new moons. That's not true about the Sabbath.

The only thing the Bible says on the subject is that the new moon rites exist. There is nothing else about them. No description and no commands to follow them.

Thanks for bringing that up as I just learned something I never knew before.

I have no guilt for worshipping on Sunday either brother.

 

[Leaf473]

Yes. That's what I said earlier.

Just making sure

Do you say Jesus is talking about any other laws or commandments when he says

Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 5:17 - King James Version

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

www.biblegateway.com

?

 

[Gary K]

I have no guilt for worshipping on Sunday either brother.

Ok. But there are penalties attached to breaking the Sabbath and a full description of it too, You're basically comparing apples and oranges.

It's interesting what you said about guilt. I never felt guilty about wanting to destroy myself either when I was doing drugs. So I don't know if that is a sure guarranty we are doing the wrong thing. I did have twinges of conscience about breaking the Sabbath though from time to time.

 

[Gary K]

Just making sure

Do you say Jesus is talking about any other laws or commandments when he says

Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 5:17 - King James Version

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

www.biblegateway.com

?

No.

 

[Leaf473]

No.

Thanks! That's very interesting.

And when you say

He makes sure we understand that too by telling us which laws are eternal. There will be no death in heaven so there will be no meat esting and the Sabbath will be kept there for eternity. So, the 10 commandments and the dietary laws will be kept eternally.

Where does Jesus say those things?

 

[BNR32FAN]

Ok. But there are penalties attached to breaking the Sabbath and a full description of it too, You're basically comparing apples and oranges.

It's interesting what you said about guilt. I never felt guilty about wanting to destroy myself either when I was doing drugs. So I don't know if that is a sure guarranty we are doing the wrong thing. I did have twinges of conscience about breaking the Sabbath though from time to time.

It’s not comparing apples to oranges it’s the same exact thing. You said you have convictions for not keeping the sabbath I said I don’t. I don’t know if you’re aware of this but 95% of Christianity doesn’t keep the Saturday Sabbath. Sanitarians are extremely rare in Christianity so apparently im not the only one not having convictions about it. Furthermore in Romans 14 Paul explains that some will have convictions about certain things and others might not.

“The faith which you have, have as your own conviction before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves. But he who doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith; and whatever is not from faith is sin.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭14‬:‭22‬-‭23‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

In this case eating meat is a sin for those who feel a conviction about it but not for those who don’t have a conviction about it.

Did you have the indwelling Holy Spirit when you were taking drugs? If you didn’t fell any conviction about it, why did you quit? I didn’t feel any conviction about doing drugs until I received the Holy Spirit.

And brother you still haven’t addressed Colossians 2:16 where Paul specifically states that we are not to be judged for not observing the sabbath days. There’s certainly nothing wrong with observing the sabbath days it’s just not a requirement for honoring God. I commend everyone who observes the sabbath in honor of God I just choose to honor Him on Sunday because my job often requires me to work on Saturday. Furthermore God never said that we must rest on the seventh day of the week. The commandment was “6 days shall you work and on the 7th rest”. So I work Monday thru Saturday and rest on Sunday. I work 6 days and on the 7th day I rest. The commandment was not 6 days shall you work and on the 7th day of the week rest. He commanded one day of rest for every 6 days of work. By resting on Sunday I’m not in violation of that commandment.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Ok. But there are penalties attached to breaking the Sabbath and a full description of it too, You're basically comparing apples and oranges.

It's interesting what you said about guilt. I never felt guilty about wanting to destroy myself either when I was doing drugs. So I don't know if that is a sure guarranty we are doing the wrong thing. I did have twinges of conscience about breaking the Sabbath though from time to time.

Yes and what was the penalty? He should be put to death. Have you ever stoned anyone to death for not keeping the sabbath because that was also a commandment by God.

The SDA theology is inconsistent in its arguments. God gave 613 commandments in the OT not just 10 and that’s not even counting the commandments in the NT. The SDA claim that we don’t need to observe all of God’s commandments just the 10 commandments but then they throw in the dietary laws as well which is not part of the 10 commandments. So they’re just picking & choosing as they please which commandments they want to keep and hold everyone else accountable to and which ones they want to disregard. Now if Paul hadn’t specifically told us that we’re not to be judged for not observing the sabbath days then I would be resting on Saturday but since he did tell us that I don’t have any convictions about not resting on Saturday.

So if you want to observe the sabbath that’s fine but you shouldn’t judge other brothers & sisters in Christ who understand the freedom Christ has given us in our worship.

 

[Gary K]

Thanks! That's very interesting.

And when you say

Where does Jesus say those things?

Jeremiah says that. Jesus said it through him as Jesus inspired both OT and NT.

 

[Leaf473]

Jeremiah says that. Jesus said it through him as Jesus inspired both OT and NT.

Very interesting! Which passage?

 

[Gary K]

Yes and what was the penalty? He should be put to death. Have you ever stoned anyone to death for not keeping the sabbath because that was also a commandment by God.

The SDA theology is inconsistent in its arguments. God gave 613 commandments in the OT not just 10 and that’s not even counting the commandments in the NT. The SDA claim that we don’t need to observe all of God’s commandments just the 10 commandments but then they throw in the dietary laws as well which is not part of the 10 commandments. So they’re just picking & choosing as they please which commandments they want to keep and hold everyone else accountable to and which ones they want to disregard. Now if Paul hadn’t specifically told us that we’re not to be judged for not observing the sabbath days then I would be resting on Saturday but since he did tell us that I don’t have any convictions about not resting on Saturday.

So if you want to observe the sabbath that’s fine but you shouldn’t judge other brothers & sisters in Christ who understand the freedom Christ has given us in our worship.

You know what? Sometimes the accusations just get hilarious. We don't live under God's theocracy any more so stoning someone for disagreeing with us is both ludicrous and highly illegal.

When have you been held accountable for anything by any SDA, other than one who is an officer of the court? Being held accountable , by definition, means being held legally responsible for something.

Why is it so many of you on that side of the aisle take your theology from the murderers of Jesus?

Luk_6:2 And certain of the Pharisees said unto them, Why do ye that which is not lawful to do on the sabbath days?

Luk 6:1 And it came to pass on the second sabbath after the first, that he went through the corn fields; and his disciples plucked the ears of corn, and did eat, rubbing them in their hands.
Luk 6:2 And certain of the Pharisees said unto them, Why do ye that which is not lawful to do on the sabbath days?
Luk 6:3 And Jesus answering them said, Have ye not read so much as this, what David did, when himself was an hungred, and they which were with him;
Luk 6:4 How he went into the house of God, and did take and eat the shewbread, and gave also to them that were with him; which it is not lawful to eat but for the priests alone?
Luk 6:5 And he said unto them, That the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

Paul knew what the Pharisees believed as he was one until the day of his conversion on the road to Damascus so he knew exactly what word games they played and how non-Biblical their beliefs were.

Here's a sample of what they believed about keeping the Sabbath. Here is an excerpt from the Babylonian Talmud, part of the Pharisees' bible.

For it was taught: They may prepare [and administer] a wine potion
for a sick person on the Sabbath. Under what circumstances? When it
was [already] mixed [with wine and oil] on the eve of the Sabbath. But if
it was not mixed by the eve of the Sabbath [but on the Sabbath proper] it
is forbidden for a person to then go and to mix it on the Sabbath because
one may not initially prepare medicine to administer it on the Sabbath.

 

[Gary K]

Very interesting! Which passage?

LOL. I get to eat my words again. Mmmm crow tastes good.

Isa_66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

 

[Leaf473]

LOL. I get to eat my words again. Mmmm crow tastes good.

I see. That passage mentions new moons as well. Wouldn't that mean that laws relating to new moons are also the laws that Jesus is talking about when he says the law and the prophets?

 

[Gary K]

I see. That passage mentions new moons as well. Wouldn't that mean that laws relating to new moons are also the laws that Jesus is talking about when he says the law and the prophets?

I don't think so as there are no descriptions of the new moon rites found in the OT and Jesus always quoted or referenced scripture in His disputes with the Pharisees.

 

[Leaf473]

I don't think so as there are no descriptions of the new moon rites found in the OT...

Hmm... Could be a translation issue. I believe the new moon is the same as the beginning of the month.

Bible Gateway passage: Numbers 28:11 - King James Version

And in the beginnings of your months ye shall offer a burnt offering unto the LORD; two young bullocks, and one ram, seven lambs of the first year without spot;

www.biblegateway.com

...and Jesus always quoted or referenced scripture in His disputes with the Pharisees.

Well, he's not disputing with Pharisees in The sermon on the Mount.
________________
But no matter about the above at this time, Isaiah 66 also mentions taking some for priests and Levites. So... The laws for Levites?

Bible Gateway passage: Isaiah 66:21 - King James Version

And I will also take of them for priests and for Levites, saith the LORD.

www.biblegateway.com

 

[NewLifeInChristJesus]

I do think our sins come from our sinful flesh. And that is why God's solution for sin is so great, With His power within our lives we can freely choose to sin or not sin. It's the infinite genius of God on display. He has given us back our free moral agent ability

Understanding the source of our sin is an important baby step in the right direction. When we know and understand that our own sinful flesh is the source of all our sins, we can begin to get our heads around the fact that we need God's forgiveness for our sinfulness, not just for our individual sins. And if He forgives our sinfullness, then He certainly forgives all our individual sins. When these thoughts mature, they produce a great appreciation for the riches of God's grace and great thankfulness that we are not under law, but under grace.

 

[Bob S]

Gary, if you look back at IS 65 you will see where Isaiah is telling us that man will live to be over 100 in Heaven. Also, about Heaven and Earth passing away, couldn't that be a figment of speech too?

 

[Gary K]

Understanding the source of our sin is an important baby step in the right direction. When we know and understand that our own sinful flesh is the source of all our sins, we can begin to get our heads around the fact that we need God's forgiveness for our sinfulness, not just for our individual sins. And if He forgives our sinfullness, then He certainly forgives all our individual sins. When these thoughts mature, they produce a great appreciation for the riches of God's grace and great thankfulness that we are not under law, but under grace.

Why do you think God needs to forgive our sinfulness. He would be unjust if He holds us accountable for that. We have inhereited our sinfulness from Adam. This ought to be obvious to you.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I don't think so as there are no descriptions of the new moon rites found in the OT and Jesus always quoted or referenced scripture in His disputes with the Pharisees.

The New Moon simple means new month. From one new moon to another (month to month) and from one Sabbath to another (week to week) all flesh (the saints) will come before the Lord to worship. Isa 66:22-23 Which means the Sabbath will never end just as God promised. Amen!

Sin for those who do not know is the transgression of God’s law 1 John 3:4 and Paul quotes from the Ten to define sin Romans 7:7. The Ten just show us our sin so we know what not to do, we do not define what sin is, God does and when we obey what He asks we are depending on His righteousness Psa 119:172, because our righteousness means nothing.

 

[BNR32FAN]

You know what? Sometimes the accusations just get hilarious. We don't live under God's theocracy any more so stoning someone for disagreeing with us is both ludicrous and highly illegal.

When have you been held accountable for anything by any SDA, other than one who is an officer of the court? Being held accountable , by definition, means being held legally responsible for something.

Why is it so many of you on that side of the aisle take your theology from the murderers of Jesus?





Paul knew what the Pharisees believed as he was one until the day of his conversion on the road to Damascus so he knew exactly what word games they played and how non-Biblical their beliefs were.

Here's a sample of what they believed about keeping the Sabbath. Here is an excerpt from the Babylonian Talmud, part of the Pharisees' bible.

The part about stonings was intended to be sarcastic, it was supposed to sound ridiculous. And you still haven’t said anything on Colossians 2:16 yet brother.

 

[Gary K]

Gary, if you look back at IS 65 you will see where Isaiah is telling us that man will live to be over 100 in Heaven. Also, about Heaven and Earth passing away, couldn't that be a figment of speech too?

You really believe that?

Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

The New Moon simple means new month. From one new moon to another (month to month) and from one Sabbath to another (week to week) all flesh (the saints) will come before the Lord to worship. Isa 66:22-23 Which means the Sabbath will never end just as God promised. Amen!

Sin for those who do not know is the transgression of God’s law 1 John 3:4 and Paul quotes from the Ten to define sin Romans 7:7. The Ten just show us our sin so we know what not to do, we do not define what sin is, God does and when we obey what He asks we are depending on His righteousness Psa 119:172, because our righteousness means nothing.

Thabjs SB, U aoppreciate it. Makes sense to me.