Works Relation to Salvation

[Leaf473]

The New Moon simple means new month. From one new moon to another (month to month) and from one Sabbath to another (week to week) all flesh (the saints) will come before the Lord to worship. Isa 66:22-23 Which means the Sabbath will never end just as God promised. Amen!

Hi SB, You may wish to compare Isaiah 66 with Zechariah 14 where the feast of Tabernacles is spoken of much the same way

Bible Gateway passage: Zechariah 14:16 - New King James Version

The Nations Worship the King - And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles.

www.biblegateway.com

Sin for those who do not know is the transgression of God’s law 1 John 3:4 and Paul quotes from the Ten to define sin Romans 7:7. The Ten just show us our sin so we know what not to do, we do not define what sin is, God does and when we obey what He asks we are depending on His righteousness Psa 119:172, because our righteousness means nothing.

 

[Bob S]

Hi Gary, no I don't believe that and I assume you don't either. Do you then believe IS 66 were it tells us we will walk among the dead decaying bodies on the Sabbath. IS 65 and 66 are speaking of Heaven and what will happen. The question is if we cannot reconcile all of the other things he is telling us, how then can we reconcile where he is telling us we will all come together on the Sabbath???? And another thing, even if we do come together on the Sabbath in Heaven there is no proof we are commanded to observe the Sabbath in the new covenant we are now living.

You wrote that you do not read 2Cor 3:6-11 as telling us we are not under the ministry of death, ten commandments, so I would like to know just how you read those verses. It seems to me that SDAs as a body deny what Paul wrote there. They deny Eph 2:11 Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called “uncircumcised” by those who call themselves “the circumcision” (which is done in the body by human hands)— 12 remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near by the blood of Christ.

14 For he himself is our peace, who has made the two groups one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15 by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new humanity out of the two, thus making peace, 16 and in one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility. 17 He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near. 18 For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit.

You and those who are trying to convince others that God's laws given to Israel are eternal need to study 2Cor3 and Eph 2. It is no wonder you have not been able to convince us? Could it be that Matt 5: 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, is really a metaphor and Jesus did fulfill (bring to an end) the laws of the old covenant? Could it be that you and all who believe like you have been duped by a self proclaimed prophet that was severely wounded with a rock that hit her in the head and caused her to be disabled throughout her life?

 

[Gary K]

The part about stonings was intended to be sarcastic, it was supposed to sound ridiculous. And you still haven’t said anything on Colossians 2:16 yet brother.

I haven't said anything about Colossians because you will reject how I read it out of hand.

Here goes anyway.

The Israelites were commanded by God to keep several feasts a year. Some of them lasted for at least a week. The Sabbath days during those festivals were called high Sabbaths and had special offerings associated with them. Do you keep any of those feaasts? Can you show me anywhere in the NT where the Jerusalem council told the Gentiles they had to keep them because they were laws given to the Jews?

What Paul was doing was combating what the Bible calls Judaizers coming to the Gentile Christians and telling them they must be circumcised and that they must keep the feasts too. As all these feasts either pointed forward to the Messiah or back to the deliverance from Egypt they were not applicable to us. Thus Paul is telling the Gentiles of his day don't let anyone come along and intimidate you into observing what doesn't apply to you as to the Pharisaical Jews faith in Christ for the forgiveness of sins was the rankest of heresies.

 

[Gary K]

Hi SB, You may wish to compare Isaiah 66 with Zechariah 14 where the feast of Tabernacles is spoken of much the same way

Bible Gateway passage: Zechariah 14:16 - New King James Version

The Nations Worship the King - And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles.

www.biblegateway.com

You misread the text. Everyone who is left of the nations who came against Jerusalem is speaking of the Jews who were left after the vast majority of the Jews were taken away captive by their conquerors as there were always some people left in Judah every time they were conquered.

 

[BNR32FAN]

I haven't said anything about Colossians because you will reject how I read it out of hand.

Here goes anyway.

The Israelites were commanded by God to keep several feasts a year. Some of them lasted for at least a week. The Sabbath days during those festivals were called high Sabbaths and had special offerings associated with them. Do you keep any of those feaasts? Can you show me anywhere in the NT where the Jerusalem council told the Gentiles they had to keep them because they were laws given to the Jews?

What Paul was doing was combating what the Bible calls Judaizers coming to the Gentile Christians and telling them they must be circumcised and that they must keep the feasts too. As all these feasts either pointed forward to the Messiah or back to the deliverance from Egypt they were not applicable to us. Thus Paul is telling the Gentiles of his day don't let anyone come along and intimidate you into observing what doesn't apply to you as to the Pharisaical Jews faith in Christ for the forgiveness of sins was the rankest of heresies.

Ok but you quoted Isaiah 66:22-23 as evidence that we must continue to observe the sabbath, yes? And what does that passage say about the new moon?

““For just as the new heavens and the new earth Which I make will endure before Me,” declares the Lord, “So your offspring and your name will endure. And it shall be from new moon to new moon And from sabbath to sabbath, All mankind will come to bow down before Me,” says the Lord.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭66‬:‭22‬-‭23‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

So by using this verse as evidence that we must continue to observe the sabbath days while at the same time saying that we no longer have to observe the new moon feasts your being inconsistent in your reasoning. If your going to conclude that Isaiah 66:23 means that we must continually to observe the sabbath then you must also conclude that we must continue to observe the new moon feasts as well otherwise your ignoring half of the verse.

Another inconsistency is you claim that because Jesus and the NT authors mentioned some of the 10 commandments this implies that we must keep all of them but when Paul says we are not to be judged for not observing the Sabbath days you say that this does not include the Saturday Sabbath so again your not being consistent in your argument because if mentioning a few of the 10 commandments means we must keep all of them then by that same logic when Paul mentions the sabbath days in Colossians 2:16 that should also apply to all sabbath days. Furthermore if Paul was excluding the Saturday Sabbath from this statement then he should’ve made that absolutely clear. Instead neither Paul nor any of the NT authors ever mention observing the Saturday sabbath. So by this I would conclude that this does include the Saturday sabbath based on both Romans 14 and Colossians 2:16.

 

[Gary K]

Ok but you quoted Isaiah 66:22-23 as evidence that we must continue to observe the sabbath, yes? And what does that passage say about the new moon?

““For just as the new heavens and the new earth Which I make will endure before Me,” declares the Lord, “So your offspring and your name will endure. And it shall be from new moon to new moon And from sabbath to sabbath, All mankind will come to bow down before Me,” says the Lord.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭66‬:‭22‬-‭23‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

So by using this verse as evidence that we must continue to observe the sabbath days while at the same time saying that we no longer have to observe the new moon feasts your being inconsistent in your reasoning. If your going to conclude that Isaiah 66:23 means that we must continually to observe the sabbath then you must also conclude that we must continue to observe the new moon feasts as well otherwise your ignoring half of the verse.

Another inconsistency is you claim that because Jesus and the NT authors mentioned some of the 10 commandments this implies that we must keep all of them but when Paul says we are not to be judged for not observing the Sabbath days you say that this does not include the Saturday Sabbath so again your not being consistent in your argument because if mentioning a few of the 10 commandments means we must keep all of them then by that same logic when Paul mentions the sabbath days in Colossians 2:16 that should also apply to all sabbath days. Furthermore if Paul was excluding the Saturday Sabbath from this statement then he should’ve made that absolutely clear. Instead neither Paul nor any of the NT authors ever mention observing the Saturday sabbath. So by this I would conclude that this does include the Saturday sabbath based on both Romans 14 and Colossians 2:16.

I told you that you would reject what I had to say out of hand. What good did it do to comply with your request? Were you just looking for something to put me down about? That's all I can see.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Ok but you quoted Isaiah 66:22-23 as evidence that we must continue to observe the sabbath, yes? And what does that passage say about the new moon?

““For just as the new heavens and the new earth Which I make will endure before Me,” declares the Lord, “So your offspring and your name will endure. And it shall be from new moon to new moon And from sabbath to sabbath, All mankind will come to bow down before Me,” says the Lord.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭66‬:‭22‬-‭23‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

So by using this verse as evidence that we must continue to observe the sabbath days while at the same time saying that we no longer have to observe the new moon feasts your being inconsistent in your reasoning. If your going to conclude that Isaiah 66:23 means that we must continually to observe the sabbath then you must also conclude that we must continue to observe the new moon feasts as well otherwise your ignoring half of the verse.

Another inconsistency is you claim that because Jesus and the NT authors mentioned some of the 10 commandments this implies that we must keep all of them but when Paul says we are not to be judged for not observing the Sabbath days you say that this does not include the Saturday Sabbath so again your not being consistent in your argument because if mentioning a few of the 10 commandments means we must keep all of them then by that same logic when Paul mentions the sabbath days in Colossians 2:16 that should also apply to all sabbath days. Furthermore if Paul was excluding the Saturday Sabbath from this statement then he should’ve made that absolutely clear. Instead neither Paul nor any of the NT authors ever mention observing the Saturday sabbath. So by this I would conclude that this does include the Saturday sabbath based on both Romans 14 and Colossians 2:16.

Where is the word feast in Isa 66:23- you are adding what is not there. Months were not named in scripture, how they kept track of the months is through the moon, so this is the language used in this scripture. New moon, means new month.

Also, the Sabbath day is blessed by God and no man can reverse something God blessed. Once God blesses something like He did with the Sabbath commandment- man can't reverse Num 23:20 so you would need a thus saith the Lord for that. Most of the Sabbath scripture telling us to keep the Sabbath day holy Exo 20:8, the Sabbath was made for man Mark 2:27, the Sabbath is holy, blessed and sanctified by God Exo 20:11, the Sabbath is My holy day Isa 58:13, the Sabbath of the Lord thy God that is on the seventh day Exo 20:10, the day to honor God Isa 58:13 the Sabbath is a sign that shows God sanctifies us Eze 20:12 the Sabbath is a sign between God and His people Eze 20:20 everyone who does not defile the Sabbath join themselves unto the Lord Isa 56 and will continue for worship for all eternity Isa 66:22-23 all has a thus saith the Lord attached to these references and is a commandment of God. Thats some big shoes to fill to countermand so much of God's very own Words. Paul does not have authority to do this either and he didn't which is why there is a warning in scripture so many twist his words to their own destruction 2 Peter 3:16 and why Paul reinforces what Jesus said and told us keeping the commandments of God is what matters 1 Cor 7:19 and the Sabbath is a commandment of God

The context to Col 2:16 is in Col 2:13-17 KJV. The Sabbath is not an ordinance- it is a commandment of God personally written by God's own finger, not "handwritten" God blessed and made holy the Sabbath day- which is not the definition of contrary or against so obviously Col 2:16 is not referring to the weekly seventh day Sabbath as there is more than one sabbath in scripture and context fits the sabbath(s) ordinances that had to do with eating and drinking and pointed to Jesus who became our Sacrificial Passover Lamb, which was an ordinance. Exo 12:43 Instead of sacrificing animals in the NC we can go directly to Jesus for forgiveness of sins.

The Ten Commandments is what defines sin Romans 7:7 breaking one we break all James 2:10-12 and we should not cover our sins Proverbs 28:13 but confess them and turn to Jesus who helps us when we obey His commandments John 14:15-18 and changes us from the inside out so we want to keep God's commandments through love and faith. 1 John 5:3 Romans 3:31 Jesus came to save us from our sins Mat 1:21, not in them.

 

[Gary K]

Hi Gary, no I don't believe that and I assume you don't either. Do you then believe IS 66 were it tells us we will walk among the dead decaying bodies on the Sabbath. IS 65 and 66 are speaking of Heaven and what will happen. The question is if we cannot reconcile all of the other things he is telling us, how then can we reconcile where he is telling us we will all come together on the Sabbath???? And another thing, even if we do come together on the Sabbath in Heaven there is no proof we are commanded to observe the Sabbath in the new covenant we are now living.

You wrote that you do not read 2Cor 3:6-11 as telling us we are not under the ministry of death, ten commandments, so I would like to know just how you read those verses. It seems to me that SDAs as a body deny what Paul wrote there. They deny Eph 2:11 Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called “uncircumcised” by those who call themselves “the circumcision” (which is done in the body by human hands)— 12 remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near by the blood of Christ.

14 For he himself is our peace, who has made the two groups one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15 by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new humanity out of the two, thus making peace, 16 and in one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility. 17 He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near. 18 For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit.

You and those who are trying to convince others that God's laws given to Israel are eternal need to study 2Cor3 and Eph 2. It is no wonder you have not been able to convince us? Could it be that Matt 5: 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, is really a metaphor and Jesus did fulfill (bring to an end) the laws of the old covenant? Could it be that you and all who believe like you have been duped by a self proclaimed prophet that was severely wounded with a rock that hit her in the head and caused her to be disabled throughout her life?

I have studied those passages of scripture and I don't come to the same conclusions you do.

As to 2Corinthians 3: 6-11 here is my reading of it. To understand it we need to go to Hebrews.

Heb 3:15 While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.
Heb 3:16 For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses.
Heb 3:17 But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness?
Heb 3:18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?
Heb 3:19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.

-
So what was the veil over their hearts? Unbelief. And why was the glorious ministry of the law the minstry of death? Because of the Israelites unbelief. Their unbelief is why all but two of them died in the wilderness. That's why they didn't keep God's law and constantly rebelled against Him even though He protected them, fed them, and provided water for them daily. We are no different.

 

[BNR32FAN]

I told you that you would reject what I had to say out of hand. What good did it do to comply with your request? Were you just looking for something to put me down about? That's all I can see.

No that wasn’t my intention at all brother. I wouldn’t keep referring to you as a brother if my intention was to be impolite. I’m simply trying to show you the errors in the SDA theology. How can you not see that they are misusing Isaiah 66:23? I’ve explained in detail how that line of reasoning is not consistent with their teachings.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

No that wasn’t my intention at all brother. I wouldn’t keep referring to you as a brother if my intention was to be impolite. I’m simply trying to show you the errors in the SDA theology. How can you not see that they are misusing Isaiah 66:23? I’ve explained in detail how that line of reasoning is not consistent with their teachings.

Can you please explain the error that Isaiah is not saying the saints will be coming before the Lord from one Sabbath to another when it says this verbatim?

The New Moon just means New Month- this verse doesn't say anything about "festivals" you added that.

If the Lord has a special gathering from month to month in addition to one Sabbath to another- who are we to argue against?

Some people think, although it can't be proven, that the months will be 28 days so every New Moon will also be a Sabbath, but I guess that will be revealed soon enough.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Where is the word feast in Isa 66:23- you are adding what is not there. Months were not named in scripture, how they kept track of the months is through the moon, so this is the language used in this scripture. New moon, means new month.

Yes I know that and Sabbath to sabbath means week to week. It means they will worship everyday not just on Saturday, but the SDA claims that because this verse says from sabbath to sabbath that this means we will worship every Saturday but they don’t apply that same reasoning to the term from new moon to new moon.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Also, the Sabbath day is blessed by God and no man can reverse something God blessed. Once God blesses something like He did with the Sabbath commandment- man can't reverse

Who reversed sin offerings? Who reversed circumcision? Who reversed the dietary laws? I’m not reversing anything I’m simply quoting Paul’s words.

 

[NewLifeInChristJesus]

Why do you think God needs to forgive our sinfulness. He would be unjust if He holds us accountable for that. We have inhereited our sinfulness from Adam. This ought to be obvious to you.

Interesting. We are actually not that far apart. I say our sinfulness is forgiven and you say He doesn't hold us accountable for our sinfulness. We end up in the same place concerning our sinfulness... it is not held against us.

Then why does it matter whether it is forgiven or it is not held against us?

12 Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall. 13 No temptation has overtaken you except such as is common to man; but God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will also make the way of escape, that you may be able to bear it. (1 Co 10:12–13)​

These verses say plainly that God provides a "way of escape" with every temptation. This means that whenever you succumb to temptation, you also refuse to take the way of escape that God provided. How many times a day or week or month or year can a person observe this without concluding that the "free moral agent" decision-maker is himself corrupt and needs forgiveness for his own corruption. The fact is, there is no distance between us (the free moral agent decisioin-maker) and our own sinful flesh.

"And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness." (Ro 8:10)​

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Who reversed sin offerings? Who reversed circumcision?

We have clear scripture showing this- neither are one of the commandments of God. Paul contrasts circumcision with the commandments of God and determined what matters is keeping God's commandments. This of course includes the Sabbath commandment that Paul or no one has authority to change.

Who reversed the dietary laws?

No one nor will it ever be. Isa 66:17

I’m not reversing anything I’m simply quoting Paul’s words.

Not really.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Yes I know that and Sabbath to sabbath means week to week. It means they will worship everyday not just on Saturday, but the SDA claims that because this verse says from sabbath to sabbath that this means we will worship every Saturday but they don’t apply that same reasoning to the term from new moon to new moon.

It does not say from one day to another, it clearly says from one Sabbath to another. Just like I go to church from one Sabbath to another, not every day. The saints are not going to be gathering before the Lord 24/7 in heaven, it says they will be attending to vineyards and building houses i.e. working, but the Sabbath will be for worshipping the Lord when everyone will gather before Him in His presence, just like in the garden before sin separated man from God.

God defined the Sabbath as being on the seventh day- Exo 20:10 His spoken and written Word and once God defines something, I think its best to leave it there as no one is above God or His Word.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Thats some big shoes to fill to countermand so much of God's very own Words. Paul does not have authority to do this either and he didn't which is why there is a warning in scripture so many twist his words to their own destruction 2 Peter 3:16 and why Paul reinforces what Jesus said and told us keeping the commandments of God is what matters 1 Cor 7:19 and the Sabbath is a commandment of God

Do I really need to go thru and quote all the commandments of God that the SDA do not keep again?

Ok you keep claiming that you keep God’s commandments so let’s see if that’s true. Do you keep all of these commandments? Do you keep any of these commandments?


“These words, which I am commanding you today, shall be on your heart. You shall teach them diligently to your sons and shall talk of them when you sit in your house and when you walk by the way and when you lie down and when you rise up. You shall bind them as a sign on your hand and they shall be as frontals on your forehead. You shall write them on the doorposts of your house and on your gates.”

‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭6:6-9‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬


Have you done this?


““Now therefore, write this song for yourselves, and teach it to the sons of Israel; put it on their lips, so that this song may be a witness for Me against the sons of Israel.”

‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭31:19‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬


Have you done this?


““Speak to the sons of Israel, and tell them that they shall make for themselves tassels on the corners of their garments throughout their generations, and that they shall put on the tassel of each corner a cord of blue. It shall be a tassel for you to look at and remember all the commandments of the Lord, so as to do them and not follow after your own heart and your own eyes, after which you played the harlot,”

‭‭Numbers‬ ‭15:38-39‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬


Have you done this?


“You shall live in booths for seven days; all the native-born in Israel shall live in booths,”

‭‭Leviticus‬ ‭23:42‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬


Have you done this?


“‘On exactly the fifteenth day of the seventh month, when you have gathered in the crops of the land, you shall celebrate the feast of the Lord for seven days, with a rest on the first day and a rest on the eighth day. Now on the first day you shall take for yourselves the foliage of beautiful trees, palm branches and boughs of leafy trees and willows of the brook, and you shall rejoice before the Lord your God for seven days.”

‭‭Leviticus‬ ‭23:39-40‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬


Have you done this?


“Of the first of your dough you shall lift up a cake as an offering; as the offering of the threshing floor, so you shall lift it up. From the first of your dough you shall give to the Lord an offering throughout your generations. ‘But when you unwittingly fail and do not observe all these commandments, which the Lord has spoken to Moses, even all that the Lord has commanded you through Moses, from the day when the Lord gave commandment and onward throughout your generations, then it shall be, if it is done unintentionally, without the knowledge of the congregation, that all the congregation shall offer one bull for a burnt offering, as a soothing aroma to the Lord, with its grain offering and its drink offering, according to the ordinance, and one male goat for a sin offering.”

‭‭Numbers‬ ‭15:20-24‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬


Have you done this?


““Now this shall be the priests’ due from the people, from those who offer a sacrifice, either an ox or a sheep, of which they shall give to the priest the shoulder and the two cheeks and the stomach.”

‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭18:3‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬


Have you done this?


““You shall charge the sons of Israel, that they bring you clear oil of beaten olives for the light, to make a lamp burn continually. In the tent of meeting, outside the veil which is before the testimony, Aaron and his sons shall keep it in order from evening to morning before the Lord; it shall be a perpetual statute throughout their generations for the sons of Israel.”

‭‭Exodus‬ ‭27:20-21‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬


Have you done this?


“‘Then on the sabbath day two male lambs one year old without defect, and two-tenths of an ephah of fine flour mixed with oil as a grain offering, and its drink offering: This is the burnt offering of every sabbath in addition to the continual burnt offering and its drink offering.”

‭‭Numbers‬ ‭28:9-10‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬


Have you done this?


““You shall make a table of acacia wood, two cubits long and one cubit wide and one and a half cubits high. You shall overlay it with pure gold and make a gold border around it. You shall make for it a rim of a handbreadth around it; and you shall make a gold border for the rim around it. You shall make four gold rings for it and put rings on the four corners which are on its four feet. The rings shall be close to the rim as holders for the poles to carry the table. You shall make the poles of acacia wood and overlay them with gold, so that with them the table may be carried. You shall make its dishes and its pans and its jars and its bowls with which to pour drink offerings; you shall make them of pure gold. You shall set the bread of the Presence on the table before Me at all times.”

‭‭Exodus‬ ‭25:23-30‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬


Have you done this?


“‘These are the appointed times of the Lord, holy convocations which you shall proclaim at the times appointed for them. In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month at twilight is the Lord’s Passover. Then on the fifteenth day of the same month there is the Feast of Unleavened Bread to the Lord; for seven days you shall eat unleavened bread. On the first day you shall have a holy convocation; you shall not do any laborious work. But for seven days you shall present an offering by fire to the Lord. On the seventh day is a holy convocation; you shall not do any laborious work.’ ””

‭‭Leviticus‬ ‭23:4-8‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬


And this?


“Then the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, “Speak to the sons of Israel and say to them, ‘When you enter the land which I am going to give to you and reap its harvest, then you shall bring in the sheaf of the first fruits of your harvest to the priest. He shall wave the sheaf before the Lord for you to be accepted; on the day after the sabbath the priest shall wave it. Now on the day when you wave the sheaf, you shall offer a male lamb one year old without defect for a burnt offering to the Lord. Its grain offering shall then be two-tenths of an ephah of fine flour mixed with oil, an offering by fire to the Lord for a soothing aroma, with its drink offering, a fourth of a hin of wine. Until this same day, until you have brought in the offering of your God, you shall eat neither bread nor roasted grain nor new growth. It is to be a perpetual statute throughout your generations in all your dwelling places. ‘You shall also count for yourselves from the day after the sabbath, from the day when you brought in the sheaf of the wave offering; there shall be seven complete sabbaths. You shall count fifty days to the day after the seventh sabbath; then you shall present a new grain offering to the Lord. You shall bring in from your dwelling places two loaves of bread for a wave offering, made of two-tenths of an ephah; they shall be of a fine flour, baked with leaven as first fruits to the Lord. Along with the bread you shall present seven one year old male lambs without defect, and a bull of the herd and two rams; they are to be a burnt offering to the Lord, with their grain offering and their drink offerings, an offering by fire of a soothing aroma to the Lord.”

‭‭Leviticus‬ ‭23:9-18‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬


And this?


““Speak to the sons of Israel, saying, ‘In the seventh month on the first of the month you shall have a rest, a reminder by blowing of trumpets, a holy convocation. You shall not do any laborious work, but you shall present an offering by fire to the Lord.’ ””

‭‭Leviticus‬ ‭23:24-25‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬


And this?


“‘Now as for the flesh of the sacrifice of his thanksgiving peace offerings, it shall be eaten on the day of his offering; he shall not leave any of it over until morning. But if the sacrifice of his offering is a votive or a freewill offering, it shall be eaten on the day that he offers his sacrifice, and on the next day what is left of it may be eaten; but what is left over from the flesh of the sacrifice on the third day shall be burned with fire. So if any of the flesh of the sacrifice of his peace offerings should ever be eaten on the third day, he who offers it will not be accepted, and it will not be reckoned to his benefit. It shall be an offensive thing, and the person who eats of it will bear his own iniquity. ‘Also the flesh that touches anything unclean shall not be eaten; it shall be burned with fire. As for other flesh, anyone who is clean may eat such flesh. But the person who eats the flesh of the sacrifice of peace offerings which belong to the Lord, in his uncleanness, that person shall be cut off from his people. When anyone touches anything unclean, whether human uncleanness, or an unclean animal, or any unclean detestable thing, and eats of the flesh of the sacrifice of peace offerings which belong to the Lord, that person shall be cut off from his people.’ ””

‭‭Leviticus‬ ‭7:15-21‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬


And this?


““Three times in a year all your males shall appear before the Lord your God in the place which He chooses, at the Feast of Unleavened Bread and at the Feast of Weeks and at the Feast of Booths, and they shall not appear before the Lord empty-handed. Every man shall give as he is able, according to the blessing of the Lord your God which He has given you.”

‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭16:16-17‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬


And this?


“‘Now if a woman has a discharge of her blood many days, not at the period of her menstrual impurity, or if she has a discharge beyond that period, all the days of her impure discharge she shall continue as though in her menstrual impurity; she is unclean. Any bed on which she lies all the days of her discharge shall be to her like her bed at menstruation; and every thing on which she sits shall be unclean, like her uncleanness at that time. Likewise, whoever touches them shall be unclean and shall wash his clothes and bathe in water and be unclean until evening. When she becomes clean from her discharge, she shall count off for herself seven days; and afterward she will be clean. Then on the eighth day she shall take for herself two turtledoves or two young pigeons and bring them in to the priest, to the doorway of the tent of meeting. The priest shall offer the one for a sin offering and the other for a burnt offering. So the priest shall make atonement on her behalf before the Lord because of her impure discharge.’”

‭‭Leviticus‬ ‭15:25-30‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬


And this?


““Speak to the sons of Israel, saying: ‘When a woman gives birth and bears a male child, then she shall be unclean for seven days, as in the days of her menstruation she shall be unclean. On the eighth day the flesh of his foreskin shall be circumcised. Then she shall remain in the blood of her purification for thirty-three days; she shall not touch any consecrated thing, nor enter the sanctuary until the days of her purification are completed. But if she bears a female child, then she shall be unclean for two weeks, as in her menstruation; and she shall remain in the blood of her purification for sixty-six days. ‘When the days of her purification are completed, for a son or for a daughter, she shall bring to the priest at the doorway of the tent of meeting a one year old lamb for a burnt offering and a young pigeon or a turtledove for a sin offering. Then he shall offer it before the Lord and make atonement for her, and she shall be cleansed from the flow of her blood. This is the law for her who bears a child, whether a male or a female. But if she cannot afford a lamb, then she shall take two turtledoves or two young pigeons, the one for a burnt offering and the other for a sin offering; and the priest shall make atonement for her, and she will be clean.’ ””

‭‭Leviticus‬ ‭12:2-8‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬


And all this?


““This is the statute of the law which the Lord has commanded, saying, ‘Speak to the sons of Israel that they bring you an unblemished red heifer in which is no defect and on which a yoke has never been placed.”

‭‭Numbers‬ ‭19:2‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬


And this?


I’m just going to stop there since there’s no point in continuing unless you have kept all of these commandments of God.

 

[Gary K]

No that wasn’t my intention at all brother. I wouldn’t keep referring to you as a brother if my intention was to be impolite. I’m simply trying to show you the errors in the SDA theology. How can you not see that they are misusing Isaiah 66:23? I’ve explained in detail how that line of reasoning is not consistent with their teachings.

I simply disagree. I have a much different perspective on the entire Bible than you do. I see it as the narrative of the war between God and Satan since the devil sinned in heaven.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Do I really need to go thru and quote all the commandments of God that the SDA do not keep again?

This is usually the argument, when one can't defend their stand from scripture. You never responded to the actual text in my post.

Ok you keep claiming that you keep God’s commandments so let’s see if that’s true. Do you keep all of these commandments? Do you keep any of these commandments?

“These words, which I am commanding you today, shall be on your heart. You shall teach them diligently to your sons and shall talk of them when you sit in your house and when you walk by the way and when you lie down and when you rise up. You shall bind them as a sign on your hand and they shall be as frontals on your forehead. You shall write them on the doorposts of your house and on your gates.”

What is this verse referring to? Do you even understand it?

‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭6:6-9‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬


Have you done this?


““Now therefore, write this song for yourselves, and teach it to the sons of Israel; put it on their lips, so that this song may be a witness for Me against the sons of Israel.”

‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭31:19‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬


Have you done this?


““Speak to the sons of Israel, and tell them that they shall make for themselves tassels on the corners of their garments throughout their generations, and that they shall put on the tassel of each corner a cord of blue. It shall be a tassel for you to look at and remember all the commandments of the Lord, so as to do them and not follow after your own heart and your own eyes, after which you played the harlot,”

‭‭Numbers‬ ‭15:38-39‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬


Have you done this?


“You shall live in booths for seven days; all the native-born in Israel shall live in booths,”

‭‭Leviticus‬ ‭23:42‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬


Have you done this?


“‘On exactly the fifteenth day of the seventh month, when you have gathered in the crops of the land, you shall celebrate the feast of the Lord for seven days, with a rest on the first day and a rest on the eighth day. Now on the first day you shall take for yourselves the foliage of beautiful trees, palm branches and boughs of leafy trees and willows of the brook, and you shall rejoice before the Lord your God for seven days.”

‭‭Leviticus‬ ‭23:39-40‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬


Have you done this?


“Of the first of your dough you shall lift up a cake as an offering; as the offering of the threshing floor, so you shall lift it up. From the first of your dough you shall give to the Lord an offering throughout your generations. ‘But when you unwittingly fail and do not observe all these commandments, which the Lord has spoken to Moses, even all that the Lord has commanded you through Moses, from the day when the Lord gave commandment and onward throughout your generations, then it shall be, if it is done unintentionally, without the knowledge of the congregation, that all the congregation shall offer one bull for a burnt offering, as a soothing aroma to the Lord, with its grain offering and its drink offering, according to the ordinance, and one male goat for a sin offering.”

‭‭Numbers‬ ‭15:20-24‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬


Have you done this?


““Now this shall be the priests’ due from the people, from those who offer a sacrifice, either an ox or a sheep, of which they shall give to the priest the shoulder and the two cheeks and the stomach.”

‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭18:3‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬


Have you done this?


““You shall charge the sons of Israel, that they bring you clear oil of beaten olives for the light, to make a lamp burn continually. In the tent of meeting, outside the veil which is before the testimony, Aaron and his sons shall keep it in order from evening to morning before the Lord; it shall be a perpetual statute throughout their generations for the sons of Israel.”

‭‭Exodus‬ ‭27:20-21‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬


Have you done this?


“‘Then on the sabbath day two male lambs one year old without defect, and two-tenths of an ephah of fine flour mixed with oil as a grain offering, and its drink offering: This is the burnt offering of every sabbath in addition to the continual burnt offering and its drink offering.”

‭‭Numbers‬ ‭28:9-10‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬


Have you done this?


““You shall make a table of acacia wood, two cubits long and one cubit wide and one and a half cubits high. You shall overlay it with pure gold and make a gold border around it. You shall make for it a rim of a handbreadth around it; and you shall make a gold border for the rim around it. You shall make four gold rings for it and put rings on the four corners which are on its four feet. The rings shall be close to the rim as holders for the poles to carry the table. You shall make the poles of acacia wood and overlay them with gold, so that with them the table may be carried. You shall make its dishes and its pans and its jars and its bowls with which to pour drink offerings; you shall make them of pure gold. You shall set the bread of the Presence on the table before Me at all times.”

‭‭Exodus‬ ‭25:23-30‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬


Have you done this?


“‘These are the appointed times of the Lord, holy convocations which you shall proclaim at the times appointed for them. In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month at twilight is the Lord’s Passover. Then on the fifteenth day of the same month there is the Feast of Unleavened Bread to the Lord; for seven days you shall eat unleavened bread. On the first day you shall have a holy convocation; you shall not do any laborious work. But for seven days you shall present an offering by fire to the Lord. On the seventh day is a holy convocation; you shall not do any laborious work.’ ””

‭‭Leviticus‬ ‭23:4-8‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬


And this?


“Then the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, “Speak to the sons of Israel and say to them, ‘When you enter the land which I am going to give to you and reap its harvest, then you shall bring in the sheaf of the first fruits of your harvest to the priest. He shall wave the sheaf before the Lord for you to be accepted; on the day after the sabbath the priest shall wave it. Now on the day when you wave the sheaf, you shall offer a male lamb one year old without defect for a burnt offering to the Lord. Its grain offering shall then be two-tenths of an ephah of fine flour mixed with oil, an offering by fire to the Lord for a soothing aroma, with its drink offering, a fourth of a hin of wine. Until this same day, until you have brought in the offering of your God, you shall eat neither bread nor roasted grain nor new growth. It is to be a perpetual statute throughout your generations in all your dwelling places. ‘You shall also count for yourselves from the day after the sabbath, from the day when you brought in the sheaf of the wave offering; there shall be seven complete sabbaths. You shall count fifty days to the day after the seventh sabbath; then you shall present a new grain offering to the Lord. You shall bring in from your dwelling places two loaves of bread for a wave offering, made of two-tenths of an ephah; they shall be of a fine flour, baked with leaven as first fruits to the Lord. Along with the bread you shall present seven one year old male lambs without defect, and a bull of the herd and two rams; they are to be a burnt offering to the Lord, with their grain offering and their drink offerings, an offering by fire of a soothing aroma to the Lord.”

‭‭Leviticus‬ ‭23:9-18‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬


And this?


““Speak to the sons of Israel, saying, ‘In the seventh month on the first of the month you shall have a rest, a reminder by blowing of trumpets, a holy convocation. You shall not do any laborious work, but you shall present an offering by fire to the Lord.’ ””

‭‭Leviticus‬ ‭23:24-25‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬


And this?


“‘Now as for the flesh of the sacrifice of his thanksgiving peace offerings, it shall be eaten on the day of his offering; he shall not leave any of it over until morning. But if the sacrifice of his offering is a votive or a freewill offering, it shall be eaten on the day that he offers his sacrifice, and on the next day what is left of it may be eaten; but what is left over from the flesh of the sacrifice on the third day shall be burned with fire. So if any of the flesh of the sacrifice of his peace offerings should ever be eaten on the third day, he who offers it will not be accepted, and it will not be reckoned to his benefit. It shall be an offensive thing, and the person who eats of it will bear his own iniquity. ‘Also the flesh that touches anything unclean shall not be eaten; it shall be burned with fire. As for other flesh, anyone who is clean may eat such flesh. But the person who eats the flesh of the sacrifice of peace offerings which belong to the Lord, in his uncleanness, that person shall be cut off from his people. When anyone touches anything unclean, whether human uncleanness, or an unclean animal, or any unclean detestable thing, and eats of the flesh of the sacrifice of peace offerings which belong to the Lord, that person shall be cut off from his people.’ ””

‭‭Leviticus‬ ‭7:15-21‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬


And this?


““Three times in a year all your males shall appear before the Lord your God in the place which He chooses, at the Feast of Unleavened Bread and at the Feast of Weeks and at the Feast of Booths, and they shall not appear before the Lord empty-handed. Every man shall give as he is able, according to the blessing of the Lord your God which He has given you.”

‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭16:16-17‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬


And this?


“‘Now if a woman has a discharge of her blood many days, not at the period of her menstrual impurity, or if she has a discharge beyond that period, all the days of her impure discharge she shall continue as though in her menstrual impurity; she is unclean. Any bed on which she lies all the days of her discharge shall be to her like her bed at menstruation; and every thing on which she sits shall be unclean, like her uncleanness at that time. Likewise, whoever touches them shall be unclean and shall wash his clothes and bathe in water and be unclean until evening. When she becomes clean from her discharge, she shall count off for herself seven days; and afterward she will be clean. Then on the eighth day she shall take for herself two turtledoves or two young pigeons and bring them in to the priest, to the doorway of the tent of meeting. The priest shall offer the one for a sin offering and the other for a burnt offering. So the priest shall make atonement on her behalf before the Lord because of her impure discharge.’”

‭‭Leviticus‬ ‭15:25-30‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬


And this?


““Speak to the sons of Israel, saying: ‘When a woman gives birth and bears a male child, then she shall be unclean for seven days, as in the days of her menstruation she shall be unclean. On the eighth day the flesh of his foreskin shall be circumcised. Then she shall remain in the blood of her purification for thirty-three days; she shall not touch any consecrated thing, nor enter the sanctuary until the days of her purification are completed. But if she bears a female child, then she shall be unclean for two weeks, as in her menstruation; and she shall remain in the blood of her purification for sixty-six days. ‘When the days of her purification are completed, for a son or for a daughter, she shall bring to the priest at the doorway of the tent of meeting a one year old lamb for a burnt offering and a young pigeon or a turtledove for a sin offering. Then he shall offer it before the Lord and make atonement for her, and she shall be cleansed from the flow of her blood. This is the law for her who bears a child, whether a male or a female. But if she cannot afford a lamb, then she shall take two turtledoves or two young pigeons, the one for a burnt offering and the other for a sin offering; and the priest shall make atonement for her, and she will be clean.’ ””

‭‭Leviticus‬ ‭12:2-8‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬


And all this?


““This is the statute of the law which the Lord has commanded, saying, ‘Speak to the sons of Israel that they bring you an unblemished red heifer in which is no defect and on which a yoke has never been placed.”

‭‭Numbers‬ ‭19:2‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬


And this?


I’m just going to stop there since there’s no point in continuing unless you have kept all of these commandments of God.

Why are you comparing the laws inside the ark of the covenant, personally written by God and spoken by God with some of the ceremonial laws and ordinances that are outside the ark as if they are the same. Do you think this somehow relieves your responsibility to obey God's commandments? Most of these laws are ceremonial ordinances that all pointed to Jesus that have to do with offerings and the sacrificial system that ended at the cross Eph 2:15 Col 2:13-17 KJV but what did not end was the Ten Commandments as it is the law that defines sin Romans 7:7 and what we will be judged by James 2:10-12 and kept until the Second Coming of Jesus Christ by His saints Rev 14:12 Rev 22:14-15

 

[Leaf473]

You misread the text. Everyone who is left of the nations who came against Jerusalem is speaking of the Jews who were left after the vast majority of the Jews were taken away captive by their conquerors as there were always some people left in Judah every time they were conquered.

Looks to me like it is "everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem". Are you saying it was Jewish people who are the "all the nations which came against Jerusalem"?

Bible Gateway passage: Zechariah 14:17-18 - New King James Version

And it shall be that whichever of the families of the earth do not come up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, on them there will be no rain. If the family of Egypt will not come up and enter in, they shall have no rain; they shall receive the plague with which the Lord strikes...

www.biblegateway.com

Or are you thinking the passage has already been fulfilled, after the return from the Babylonian exile?

Bible Gateway passage: Zechariah 14:14-15 - New King James Version

Judah also will fight at Jerusalem. And the wealth of all the surrounding nations Shall be gathered together: Gold, silver, and apparel in great abundance. Such also shall be the plague On the horse and the mule, On the camel and the donkey, And on all the cattle that will be in those camps. So...

www.biblegateway.com

 

[BNR32FAN]

We have clear scripture showing this- neither are one of the commandments of God. Paul contrasts circumcision with the commandments of God and determined what matters is keeping God's commandments. This of course includes the Sabbath commandment that Paul or no one has authority to change.

No one nor will it ever be. Isa 66:17

Not really.

Circumcision and sin offerings weren’t commandments?

“The Lord said to Moses and Aaron, “This is the ordinance of the Passover: no foreigner is to eat of it; but every man’s slave purchased with money, after you have circumcised him, then he may eat of it. A sojourner or a hired servant shall not eat of it. It is to be eaten in a single house; you are not to bring forth any of the flesh outside of the house, nor are you to break any bone of it. All the congregation of Israel are to celebrate this. But if a stranger sojourns with you, and celebrates the Passover to the Lord, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near to celebrate it; and he shall be like a native of the land. But no uncircumcised person may eat of it. The same law shall apply to the native as to the stranger who sojourns among you.” Then all the sons of Israel did so; they did just as the Lord had commanded Moses and Aaron.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭12‬:‭43‬-‭50‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

I don’t have time to provide more evidence