Works Relation to Salvation

[Icyspark]

Hi spark, You outlined what you believe about Gentiles and the Sabbath without any proof that Gentile nations ever given or heeded any of the laws Israel had to deal with. So, I assume you are not privy to any historical or Biblical knowledge of God ever asking anyone besides Israel to observe special days.

Hi Bob S,

Your beliefs are like waves of the sea, driven and tossed.

On the one hand you want to constrain the Sabbath to a "ritual" commandment with zero authority or even an "inkling" (your word) of this concept being derived from Scripture. Then too you wish to contrast this unbiblical imposition of a "ritual command" against another of your presupposed beliefs (i.e. that all the other 9 commandments were what you personally deem "moral laws").

Have you ever considered the arguments of flat earth believers? They accept that all the other planets in our solar system are spheres. The sun is also a sphere. As are all the moons. Yet they reject all this evidence and insist that the earth is flat! That's what icy you're doing with your overt attempts at "segregating laws" (your term you ironically attempt to pin on Adventists). How is it you feel free to condemn Adventists for the very thing you do? Btw, that's called hypocrisy. You have ZERO authority to add or subtract from a law with a numeral attached to it. God commands you plainly not to do such a thing, yet you freely embrace this tactic regardless of what God orders. The topic of this thread should give you pause as you do such things. People need to test themselves to see if they are in the faith. Is someone truly "in the faith" if they are directly controverting the word of God? I think not.

I pray this helps.

But for the grace of God go I,cyspark

 

[Gary K]

Hi Bob S,

Your beliefs are like waves of the sea, driven and tossed.

On the one hand you want to constrain the Sabbath to a "ritual" commandment with zero authority or even an "inkling" (your word) of this concept being derived from Scripture. Then too you wish to contrast this unbiblical imposition of a "ritual command" against another of your presupposed beliefs (i.e. that all the other 9 commandments were what you personally deem "moral laws").

Have you ever considered the arguments of flat earth believers? They accept that all the other planets in our solar system are spheres. The sun is also a sphere. As are all the moons. Yet they reject all this evidence and insist that the earth is flat! That's what icy you're doing with your overt attempts at "segregating laws" (your term you ironically attempt to pin on Adventists). How is it you feel free to condemn Adventists for the very thing you do? Btw, that's called hypocrisy. You have ZERO authority to add or subtract from a law with a numeral attached to it. God commands you plainly not to do such a thing, yet you freely embrace this tactic regardless of what God orders. The topic of this thread should give you pause as you do such things. People need to test themselves to see if they are in the faith. Is someone truly "in the faith" if they are directly controverting the word of God? I think not.

I pray this helps.

But for the grace of God go I,cyspark

This is really off topic but just have to say it.

I get a kick out of your droll sense of humor as demonstrated by your user name and your use of icy. I've been a lover of puns as long as I can remember.

 

[Icyspark]

This is really off topic but just have to say it.

I get a kick out of your droll sense of humor as demonstrated by your user name and your use of icy. I've been a lover of puns as long as I can remember.

Hi Gary K,

Thanks!

It's nice to know somebody is actually reading through my posts

God bless,

But for the grace of God go I,cyspark

 

[Icyspark]

Hold on there, partner. It is you that "assumes" something that is not there. It was God who rested from work He had done creating all that He did. It doesn't establish a precedence and you of all people should not assume that it does unless you cling to the writings of your prophet who added her own thoughts whenever necessary to coincide with her belief system.

Hi Bob S,

I'm not assuming anything. The Sabbath is there in Genesis 2:1-3. Did you click on the link?

Why would I need to appeal to Ellen White (something I never do on this forum) when it is abundantly clear that the Sabbath was made "in the beginning." I know you don't like the fact that Jesus said, "The Sabbath was MADE ..." And it's especially grating for you to deal with the fact that Jesus said it was made for human beings. It's mind boggling to me that in spite of this glaring contradiction to your self-imposed beliefs regarding God's holy day, you still persist in attempting to marginalize the Sabbath by calling it the Sabbath of the Jews.

So which do you think Ima believe:

"The Sabbath was made for human beings" —Jesus Christ, creator of heaven and earth, omnipotent Lord of all​

"The Sabbath was [given only to the Jews]" —Bob S, finite and fallible human being​

Yeaaah. That was rhetorical.

If you're a "human being" then Jesus says the Sabbath was made for you.

I pray this helps.

But for the grace of God go I,cyspark

 

[Icyspark]

I insist on a command given only to one nation, Israel. Adultery and murder are part of Jesus Law of Love. I am to love others like Jesus loves us. Would Jesus murder or commit adultery to our fellow human beings??

Hi Bob S,

Here we go. In the previous comment—to which I just responded—you said, "It is you that 'assumes' something that is not there." What in the world do you think you're doing here? There is NOTHING in Scripture that segregates God's Ten Commandment covenant in the manner in which you are attempting. That is you doing your usual schtick in which you are either ADDing to God's Ten Commandments (by attempting to mash them into an unknown number to Scripture, 613), or attempting to SUBTRACT a singular commandment from the unit of Ten, thereby making God's title at the very least superfluous.

God commands you not to do what you are doing:

Deuteronomy 4:2​

Do not add to what I command you and do not subtract from it, but keep the commands of the Lord your God that I give you.​

Proverbs 30:6​

Do not add to his words, or he will rebuke you and prove you a liar.​

If you just blindly accept that "Adultery and murder are part of Jesus Law of Love," then it is just as likely that the Sabbath is part of that same law. You don't just get to arbitrarily decide what is included (adding) and what isn't (subtracting).

Are you a sinner?

I pray this helps.

But for the grace of God go I,cyspark

 

[Icyspark]

All nations had and have a code of ethics and other codes. Israel had their code that no other nation had. I shouldn't have to explain that to you. The ne covenant Jesus initiateed at Calvary had a law in it concerning keeping days I wouod honor my Savior and keep such days. There is nothing to indicate Jesus was/is interested in having mankind observe a any day. To believe, as you most certainly do, that unless I somehow keep Sabbath or loose my eternal home is a ludicrus idea. No law no guilt

Hi Bob S,

Are you a sinner? If so, how do you know?

But for the grace of God go I,cyspark

 

[Icyspark]

How could they remember something that was never imposed on any man?

Hi Bob S,

Yet somehow you believe—sans any biblical evidence—that since, according to you, "Adultery and murder are part of Jesus Law of Love" that they were automagically known by all people without the benefit of any divine manifestation of an audible or written command. Yet you don't see how absurd is your confusion as the Sabbath could just as easily fit in this "law of love" category. In fact—and I've told you this innumerable times—God is love and all His commandments are all likewise based on love:

Deuteronomy 11:1​

Love the Lord your God and keep his requirements, his decrees, his laws and his commands always.​

Talk about "segregating"! I certainly see that God is segregating His directives. But you know what I don't see? I don't see a "ritual" category or a "moral" category. In fact, you're hanging yourself out on a flimsy limb of your own devising as most scholars would use the word "moral" in connection with the decalogue (as in the moral law). So why do you attempt to condemn Adventists for "segregating" God's laws according to what the Scriptures actually teach, while you likewise segregate the laws, but according to your own non biblical categories (ritual and moral)? You have no answer. Tell us, on what basis do you get to determine what laws of God are moral and what laws are ritual?

The Sabbath originated when God rested, blessed and made holy the seventh day of the creation week. God doesn't need rest. God is the Giver of blessings; God doesn't require a holy day as He is holy. The Sabbath was made for human beings. It's absurd to believe that God did all the things that make the Sabbath the Sabbath and then waited 2,000 years to appeal to the events of the creation as the foundation of the Sabbath commandment.

Are you a sinner?

I pray this helps.

But for the grace of God go I,cyspark

 

[Icyspark]

Most every translation says made for man, yet you choos to use the term human beings. This tell me that you are fishing. I notice that you didn't address the fact that those words are not in any way a command. The only people that were commanded to observe a day were those that came out of Egypt and thei posterity. That command ended a Calvary where Jesus ratified the new covenant to Israel.

Hi Bob S,

You've been around long enough to know that the word "most every translation says" is "man" in the Greek is "anthropos." Anthropos literally means "human being." What? Did you think when these other Bible versions translate anthropos as "man" that Jesus was saying that the Sabbath was only made for men? How does that help your case? Seriously. That still is horrible for your contention that the Sabbath is only for the Jews. If it's made for men, then of necessity that would include men outside of Judaism and of necessity that would include YOU!

You participated on my thread, "Ten Reasons I'm a Sabbatarian," and I think maybe you were one of the few people who attempted a point-for-point rebuttal. Yet here you are claiming ignorance about the Sabbath being made for human beings? No. You and I actually discussed this specific topic, so for you to claim ignorance is looking suspiciously like a distraction technique or possibly trolling.

In the Common English Bible what Jesus says in Mark 2:27 is translated as, "The Sabbath was CREATED for humans ..." I know you realize how hard this is on your private interpretation and that is why you are kicking so hard against accepting the main and plain meaning of the translation and continue to press forward your unbiblical belief that the Sabbath is only for the Jews. Let the Bible read in its normative sense and stop reading it through snow-job colored lenses.

In a previous discussion you illustrated why I and all others should avoid listening to your opinions. When I corrected your assertion that John 3:16 said "satin [sic] will still tempt us in every way, but Jesus can and will keep us from falling. Jn 3:16," your response was, "Sorry spark, it doesn't have to." Thus you revealed your utter lack of adherence to the Word of God and your elevation of your own finite and fallible opinions above what God clearly says. You need to repent of this false belief before it's too late. This false belief leads you to accept whatever wind of doctrine your untested spirit leads you to embrace.

Are you a sinner?

I pray this helps.

But for the grace of God go I,cyspark

 

[Icyspark]

First, let me say I'm sorry for your loss. My prayers are with you.

Hi B Griffin,

Thank you for your empathy and prayers.

This is a bit different than what's in the OP. Here, you are saying that saved people sin and need a Savior. The OP asks us to correlate our salvation with our works. My questions were meant to draw out whether you actually thought our salvation was dependent on our works or whether you thought our salvation was dependent on the Savior forgiving our sins. Here, it appears that you have thrown the OP's proposition out the window in favor of grace that covers all our sins. The OP was in opposition to my beliefs, but this new angle is in line with my beliefs.

I guess you'd have to show me how this is different than the OP. My articulated position is that works don't save anyone. Works merely reveal if your faith is real (e.g. see below).

The act of adultery (or murder, or theft, or +7) is not what denies salvation. It merely reveals your lack of love for the One you claim to love. God says, "Those that honor Me, I will honor." Do you know where that quote is found in the Bible? Go look it up sometime. It's very enlightening.

Do you agree that if you say you love Jesus that your love will be expressed in obedience to what He commands? What if your actions do not correspond with what Jesus asks of you? Does that indicate that "Christ Jesus is in you?" Or rather not in you? If Jesus is shown to not be in you and you fail the test Paul indicates Christians should take does that failure translate to loss of salvation? That's the conclusion Paul sets forth, not me.

A lot of people who claim to be "in the faith" have been deceived to believe that their salvation is unaffected by their actions. Again, actions in and of themselves are not what is determining salvation. But what actions do reveal is the truth of your our claims to being in a love relationship with Jesus. Our actions either confirm or deny our claims of love for Jesus.

Do you agree with the following conclusions I shared in the OP?

• We've established that Jesus says to cut out your eye rather than to look at a woman lustfully and go to hell. / SALVATIONAL
• We've established that Jesus says to cut off your hand and throw it away rather than to go to hell. / SALVATIONAL
• We've established that Paul says if you worship idols you "WILL NOT inherit the Kingdom of God" / SALVATIONAL
• We've established that Paul says if you commit adultery you "WILL NOT inherit the Kingdom of God" / SALVATIONAL
• We've established that Paul says if you steal you "WILL NOT inherit the Kingdom of God" / SALVATIONAL

I pray this helps.

But for the grace of God go I,cyspark

 

[NewLifeInChristJesus]

Hi B Griffin,

Thank you for your empathy and prayers.

I guess you'd have to show me how this is different than the OP. My articulated position is that works don't save anyone. Works merely reveal if your faith is real (e.g. see below).

Do you agree that if you say you love Jesus that your love will be expressed in obedience to what He commands?

Not the same way SDA's see it. My point is that saved people sin too, and are still dependent on God's grace that covers all our sins. Yes, the new man is created in righteousness and true holiness. But the flesh is still corrupt and unredeemed. So, when we walk in the Spirit, we don't fulfil the lusts of the flesh and we enjoy the fruit of the Spirit. But when we fail to walk in the Spirit and fulfil the lusts of the flesh, it does not mean we were never saved. It means we are still dependent on His grace which is sufficient for us.

What if your actions do not correspond with what Jesus asks of you?

No person on earth alive today can rightly claim that all their actions perfectly correspond in every way to everything that Jesus asks of them.

Does that indicate that "Christ Jesus is in you?" Or rather not in you?

It means there is no such thing as sinless perfection in the flesh.

If Jesus is shown to not be in you and you fail the test Paul indicates Christians should take does that failure translate to loss of salvation?That's the conclusion Paul sets forth, not me.

You misunderstand the test. It is not about works that prove Jesus is in you. It is about whether or not you recognize Jesus is living in your heart. If He's in there, you recognize that He's there because you know Him.

A lot of people who claim to be "in the faith" have been deceived to believe that their salvation is unaffected by their actions.
Again, actions in and of themselves are not what is determining salvation. But what actions do reveal is the truth of your our claims to being in a love relationship with Jesus. Our actions either confirm or deny our claims of love for Jesus.

My reaction to this is to return to my previous statement that neither your nor any other person's actions always perfectly line up in every way with everything that Jesus asks you to do. Unless you are perfect in every way, how can you possibly judge your own salvation based on your own actions? What do you do to avoid condemning yourself for your own sins? Or saying it your way, why don't your own personal sins prove you don't have a love relationship with Jesus?

Do you agree with the following conclusions I shared in the OP?

I need to know how you escape condemnation for your own sins before I make a determination on that.

 

[HIM]

But what I don't understand is the path back to salvation once it is lost. Hebrews 10:26-27 says, "For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries." Is salvation a one-shot deal? Lose it and you're done? If there is a path back what is the path back? I'm just curious because no matter how hard I try, and even though I'm very successful at resisting sin, I find that I still make bad decisions on occasion, stumble and sin. Hopefully you have just as solid an answer for the pathway to restoration as you do for the pathway to Hell.

I would not promote willful sin to any degree. but what Hebrews speaks of is a state of being, an un-Regenerative person.

HEB 10:26(NET) For if we deliberately keep on sinning after receiving the knowledge of the truth, no further sacrifice for sins is left for us,

Heb 10:26 (SLT )For we sinning voluntarily after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there is left no more a sacrifice for sins,

Heb 10:26 (LSV) For if we are sinning willingly after receiving the full knowledge of the truth—there remains no more sacrifice for sins,

 

[Bob S]

Hi Bob S,

You've been around long enough to know that the word "most every translation says" is "man" in the Greek is "anthropos." Anthropos literally means "human being." What? Did you think when these other Bible versions translate anthropos as "man" that Jesus was saying that the Sabbath was only made for men? How does that help your case? Seriously. That still is horrible for your contention that the Sabbath is only for the Jews. If it's made for men, then of necessity that would include men outside of Judaism and of necessity that would include YOU!

You participated on my thread, "Ten Reasons I'm a Sabbatarian," and I think maybe you were one of the few people who attempted a point-for-point rebuttal. Yet here you are claiming ignorance about the Sabbath being made for human beings? No. You and I actually discussed this specific topic, so for you to claim ignorance is looking suspiciously like a distraction technique or possibly trolling.

In the Common English Bible what Jesus says in Mark 2:27 is translated as, "The Sabbath was CREATED for humans ..." I know you realize how hard this is on your private interpretation and that is why you are kicking so hard against accepting the main and plain meaning of the translation and continue to press forward your unbiblical belief that the Sabbath is only for the Jews. Let the Bible read in its normative sense and stop reading it through snow-job colored lenses.

In a previous discussion you illustrated why I and all others should avoid listening to your opinions. When I corrected your assertion that John 3:16 said "satin [sic] will still tempt us in every way, but Jesus can and will keep us from falling. Jn 3:16," your response was, "Sorry spark, it doesn't have to." Thus you revealed your utter lack of adherence to the Word of God and your elevation of your own finite and fallible opinions above what God clearly says. You need to repent of this false belief before it's too late. This false belief leads you to accept whatever wind of doctrine your untested spirit leads you to embrace.

Are you a sinner?

I pray this helps.

But for the grace of God go I,cyspark

Hi spark, you still have never addressed the fact that God never commanded any other nation to observe any day,

You have never responded to the fact that even though the Sabbath was made for man, the verse is not a command. The fact is that Jesús was addressing Jews and had Jesus said the Sabbath was made for Jews and Gentiles the statement would bear some weight for Gentiles to observe it.

 

[Bob S]

Hi Bob S,

Yet somehow you believe—sans any biblical evidence—that since, according to you, "Adultery and murder are part of Jesus Law of Love" that they were automagically known by all people without the benefit of any divine manifestation of an audible or written command. Yet you don't see how absurd is your confusion as the Sabbath could just as easily fit in this "law of love" category. In fact—and I've told you this innumerable times—God is love and all His commandments are all likewise based on love:

How do nations that have never heard of the ten commandments keep from committing adultery and murder? We are born with a sense of right and wrong. We are not born with a sense to observe the for Israel only Sabbath. The proof is that no other nation on Earth has ever observed the Sabbath. If you are so bent on observing a day given only to Israel and the covenant which contained the Sabbath law ended at Calvary, why don't you keep the feast days God gave to Israel? The greatest commandments God gave Israel was not part of the ten commandments, love God and love neighbors. You are so inconsistent.

Deuteronomy 11:1​

Love the Lord your God and keep his requirements, his decrees, his laws and his commands always​

Were the feast days a requirement? is the verse speaking to me and you or just the Israelites? Be careful how you answer that. You probably will ignore it like you usually do.

Talk about "segregating"! I certainly see that God is segregating His directives. But you know what I don't see? I don't see a "ritual" category or a "moral" category.

No, you don't want to see it because if you did your theory would fall flat in your face. The fact is that some laws were dealing with morality, some were dealing with rituals and some were dealing with civil issues.

In fact, you're hanging yourself out on a flimsy limb of your own devising as most scholars would use the word "moral" in connection with the decalogue (as in the moral law). So why do you attempt to condemn Adventists for "segregating" God's laws according to what the Scriptures actually teach, while you likewise segregate the laws, but according to your own non biblical categories (ritual and moral)? You have no answer. Tell us, on what basis do you get to determine what laws of God are moral and what laws are ritual?

Ask your prophet. Oh, you cannot do that. Well she did and defend everything she said or wrote.

The Sabbath originated when God rested, blessed and made holy the seventh day of the creation week.

You can say it, but it doesn't say that in scripture. What you say isn't the truth.

God doesn't need rest. God is the Giver of blessings; God doesn't require a holy day as He is holy. The Sabbath was made for human beings. It's absurd to believe that God did all the things that make the Sabbath the Sabbath and then waited 2,000 years to appeal to the events of the creation as the foundation of the Sabbath commandment.

Yet that is what happened. Seems like it is you that is questioning what God really did. I can say this because there is absolutely no evidence of anyone observing the Seventh-day before the Israelites were commanded after crossing the Red Sea. God didn't command it while in route to the Red Sea.

Are you a sinner?

I am a saved sinner not because of any works of the Law including keeping days. I am saved by God's grace just as Abraham was. Paul would be saying "Oh you foolish Galatians Sabbath observers"

---

 

[Gary K]

Hi spark, you still have never addressed the fact that God never commanded any other nation to observe any day,

You have never responded to the fact that even though the Sabbath was made for man, the verse is not a command. The fact is that Jesús was addressing Jews and had Jesus said the Sabbath was made for Jews and Gentiles the statement would bear some weight for Gentiles to observe it.

You need to use Strong's concorance and look up the Greek word translated as man. It means human being.

 

[BNR32FAN]

The act of adultery (or murder, or theft, or +7) is not what denies salvation. It merely reveals your lack of love for the One you claim to love. God says, "Those that honor Me, I will honor." Do you know where that quote is found in the Bible? Go look it up sometime. It's very enlightening.

Saying that Jesus quoted from the 10 commandments and trying to apply that to keeping the Saturday sabbath is a very weak argument, especially since neither Jesus nor any of His apostles ever mentioned anything about keeping the Sabbath. They mention every single other commandment except for the Sabbath.

1 Corinthians 6:9-11 Don’t you realize that those who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God? [Note that here Paul equates doing wrong with loss of salvation.]Don’t fool yourselves. Those who indulge in sexual sin, or who worship idols, or commit adultery, [Look at that! One of the Ten Commandments! And if Paul mentions one, of necessity he includes all ten.] or are male prostitutes, or practice homosexuality, or are thieves, or greedy people, or drunkards, or are abusive, or cheat people—none of these will inherit the Kingdom of God. Some of you were once like that. But you were cleansed; you were made holy; you were made right with God by calling on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

If Paul was including all 10 commandments in that statement then he wouldn’t have specifically told the Colossians that they are not to be judged for not observing the sabbath days.

“Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭2‬:‭16‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

I’ve noticed that every time Adventist’s quote Jesus or the apostles preaching to keep one of the 10 commandments they always say that this applies to ALL of the commandments BUT when Paul says we are not to be judged for not observing the sabbath days now all the sudden this doesn’t apply to ALL sabbath days. So they’re not being consistent in their argument. Paul emphasizes on this again in Romans 14.

“Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls; and he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand. One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind. He who observes the day, observes it for the Lord, and he who eats, does so for the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who eats not, for the Lord he does not eat, and gives thanks to God. But you, why do you judge your brother? Or you again, why do you regard your brother with contempt? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God. For it is written, “As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to Me, And every tongue shall give praise to God.” So then each one of us will give an account of himself to God. Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather determine this—not to put an obstacle or a stumbling block in a brother’s way. I know and am convinced in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in itself; but to him who thinks anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean. For if because of food your brother is hurt, you are no longer walking according to love. Do not destroy with your food him for whom Christ died. Therefore do not let what is for you a good thing be spoken of as evil; for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. For he who in this way serves Christ is acceptable to God and approved by men.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭14‬:‭4‬-‭6‬, ‭10‬-‭18‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Here we see that honoring God on a specific day is not necessary as long as the person observes that day for The Lord.

Furthermore since we’re on the subject Paul also makes it clear that observing the dietary laws is also no longer necessary in both of these passages. Even Jesus Himself said in Matthew 15 that it’s not what goes into the mouth that defiles us but what comes out.

As for your quote from 1 Samuel 2:30 the reason many Christians worship on Sunday is to honor God, that’s precisely why they go to church on Sunday. It’s not as if they go to church on Sunday to defy Him, they could do that by not going at all. It would make ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE for someone who wants to defy God to go to church at all. So by this you can see the scriptural evidence explaining why some people choose to worship on Sunday rather than Saturday. The whole point of worshiping on Sunday is in honor of Jesus’ resurrection, not out of defiance, that wouldn’t make any sense at all.

 

[BNR32FAN]

You need to use Strong's concorance and look up the Greek word translated as man. It means human being.

A gift is not a commandment.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Yet somehow you believe—sans any biblical evidence—that since, according to you, "Adultery and murder are part of Jesus Law of Love" that they were automagically known by all people without the benefit of any divine manifestation of an audible or written command. Yet you don't see how absurd is your confusion as the Sabbath could just as easily fit in this "law of love" category. In fact—and I've told you this innumerable times—God is love and all His commandments are all likewise based on love:

Deuteronomy 11:1Love the Lord your God and keep his requirements, his decrees, his laws and his commands always.

Accordingly to this logic you would be required to keep the entire Torah which would also require circumcision and sin offerings. This is why you can’t quote the OT in reference to the requirements for salvation under the New Covenant.

 

[Gary K]

A gift is not a commandment.

No it isn't. But what has Christ done for you? What do you owe Him? I owe Him everything I am.

 

[BNR32FAN]

It's absurd to believe that God did all the things that make the Sabbath the Sabbath and then waited 2,000 years to appeal to the events of the creation as the foundation of the Sabbath commandment.

It’s not absurd at all. Before Exodus 20 there is no record of anyone observing the Sabbath then after Christ’s resurrection we have Paul telling us we don’t have to observe the Sabbath days in Colossians 2:16 and Romans 14. In much the same way circumcision was not required before Abraham, then was required until Christ’s resurrection, and is now no longer required. Same thing with the dietary laws which have changed 4 times since creation. Adam & Eve were permitted to eat vegetables and plants, Noah was permitted to eat anything except blood, then Moses was given the dietary laws at Mt Sinai and now we’re back to being permitted to eat anything as long as someone doesn’t tell us that it was offered to an idol. So changes in God’s requirements for salvation have been going on since creation, it’s nothing new.

 

[BNR32FAN]

No it isn't. But what has Christ done for you? What do you owe Him? I owe Him everything I am.

Amen, I owe Him everything as well.