Wondering if you can give me some good reasons why masturbation is a bad thing.

[JacktheCatholic]

Heck, the lust spoken of in the Bible isn't the lust that we think of today when we use the word.

Sexual fantasy is not lust. The mindset of actually desiring to act on those fantasies in a very real way is what lust is.

HUH???


2351 Lust is disordered desire for or inordinate enjoyment of sexual pleasure. Sexual pleasure is morally disordered when sought for itself, isolated from its procreative and unitive purposes.



You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, or his manservant, or his maidservant, or his ox, or his ass, or anything that is your neighbor's.299

Every one who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.300



2514 St. John distinguishes three kinds of covetousness or concupiscence: lust of the flesh, lust of the eyes, and pride of life.301 In the Catholic catechetical tradition, the ninth commandment forbids carnal concupiscence; the tenth forbids coveting another's goods.



1866 Vices can be classified according to the virtues they oppose, or also be linked to the capital sins which Christian experience has distinguished, following St. John Cassian and St. Gregory the Great. They are called "capital" because they engender other sins, other vices.138 They are pride, avarice, envy, wrath, lust, gluttony, and sloth or acedia.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

It's disheartening and embarrassing when a fellow Catholic cows to nonsense theology based on a centuries-old puritanical crusade to the point where it drives otherwise decent individuals away from the church.

Masturbation and lust being mortal sin in the Catholic Church is doctrine and not theology and thus not open to debate.

Those outside of the Church can do as they please but a Catholic is committed to teachings of the Catholic Church when doctrine or dogma is made clear and they must submit to this teaching as though from Christ himself at the risk of Mortal Sin and as much as excommunication if it damages the Church.

You are Catholic and so this is not open to debate.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

Also, JackCatholic, there is another issue concering necrophylia

Scripture as a whole shows that sexual relations with another human being is SOLELY permissible with our spouse within the confines of a lawful marriage.
Having sex with a corpse is 'sin' by default because it is not with our spouse we are married to.

We cant use this to say that sex with our dead spouse is 'ok' because at death, the 'law of the husband' no longer exists (as proven in 1 Cor 7:39) and as such that marriage is over when one spouse dies.

Sex with a corpse is 'sin' by default...

Wow! You are really strecthing this as far as you think you can. Masturbation must be very important to you to be able to twist scripture and reality for your own personal desires.

Try to remember that God comes first and then your neighbor and then you.

 

[HuntingMan]

Wow! You are really strecthing this as far as you think you can.

actually it is you and your other friend who are stretching scriptures beyond imagination to force a prohibition.

Masturbation must be very important to you to be able to twist scripture and reality for your own personal desires.

Shall I call in a moderator to deal with the personal attacks?
I asked another poster a question earlier....I didnt levy this sort of trash at her.

Try to remember that God comes first and then your neighbor and then you.

You try to remember that GODS WORD comes before your catechism.

 

[HuntingMan]

In the Catholic catechetical tradition

Not relevant to this discussion.
Much of christianity does not recognize your catechism or any authority thereof.
We expect you to prove your assertions with GODS word...not the words of of your catechism.
In that, you have failed....

 

[HuntingMan]

Masturbation and lust being mortal sin in the Catholic Church is doctrine and not theology and thus not open to debate.

Then keep your commandments that your church has imposed on you to your group alone.
As a protestant, Im not in the least bit concerned about your catechism or anything it says.

 

[HuntingMan]

Every one who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.300

This is a marriage specific prohibition.
A single man desiring a single woman CANNOT be 'adultery' by the very definition of the word.

You and your catechism have not understood Christs intent.

 

[HuntingMan]

You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, or his manservant, or his maidservant, or his ox, or his ass, or anything that is your neighbor's.299

Completely out of context.
By your perverse interpretation this could be used to prohibit ANY form of sexual-physical desire by any man towards any woman whether they were eligible to be married or not.

That passage has NOTHING to do with a mans sexual desire but is about WANTING something because your neighbor has it.....coveting.

 

[HuntingMan]

I believe the desire I have for my wife is good because it is open to life and part of a Holy bond.

Unmarried couples and those that seek carnal pleasure outside of marriage are doing so against the way of God and this is sinful. This is Lust.

And when, exactly, did this desire for your wife begin ?

Do you expect anyone here to believe that there was NO physical desire for her when you were courting...that "desire" it just suddenly appeared on your wedding night ?

Balderdash.

If men didnt desire women by the very nature God gave them the human race would have passed away eons ago.

 

[Calliso]

And when, exactly, did this desire for your wife begin ?

Do you expect anyone here to believe that there was NO physical desire for her when you were courting...that "desire" it just suddenly appeared on your wedding night ?

Balderdash.

If men didnt desire women by the very nature God gave them the human race would have passed away eons ago.

Exactly I also find it hard to believe that he or anyone else who entered into a marriage by choice didn;t have any physical desire for their spouse before getting married. And your right without that physical attraction the human race would have been gone long long ago. But anyway I think it is ago to be physically attracted to someone..that is not lust....

 

[HuntingMan]

Exactly I also find it hard to believe that he or anyone else who entered into a marriage by choice didn;t have any physical desire for their spouse before getting married. And your right without that physical attraction the human race would have been gone long long ago. But anyway I think it is ago to be physically attracted to someone..that is not lust....

I agree.
Physical attraction and even sexual desire on its own cannot be sinful 'lust' or otherwise those feelings we get when we are courting are, by definition, 'sin'....which means since we are to abstain from sin that we need to stop courting instead of learning to control those feelings.

Sinful lust comes into the picture when we direct it at folks we wouldnt lawfully be permitted to marry (because we or they are already married) and also it can even be with our own lawful spouses *IF* we are consumed with sex...even if it is solely directly at our spouse.
If a man is walking around purposefully thinking sexually about half a dozen women a day, Id think that that would also be categorized as 'lust'.
Sexual desire does not equal 'lust'
Unbridled sexual desire = sexual lust

 

[JacktheCatholic]

This is a marriage specific prohibition.
A single man desiring a single woman CANNOT be 'adultery' by the very definition of the word.

You and your catechism have not understood Christs intent.

So by your reasoning a husband who's wife is now dead can be his sexual partner in death still. Necrophylia...

 

[JacktheCatholic]

Exactly I also find it hard to believe that he or anyone else who entered into a marriage by choice didn;t have any physical desire for their spouse before getting married. And your right without that physical attraction the human race would have been gone long long ago. But anyway I think it is ago to be physically attracted to someone..that is not lust....

I have physical desire for any beautiful woman. But marriage is special and a uniting of two. As God told Adam and Eve.

It is only by pagan standards do people believe sex outside of marriage is acceptable in God's eyes.

 

[Droppo]

So by your reasoning a husband who's wife is now dead can be his sexual partner in death still. Necrophylia...

That's stretched so far out of logic and context it's insane.

 

[HuntingMan]

So by your reasoning a husband who's wife is now dead can be his sexual partner in death still. Necrophylia...

See...you CANNOT be READING my posts because I already covered this nonsense in a previous post knowing that you would try to bring it up.

READ !

Post #86 from THIS thread...FIFTY posts AGO !

Originally Posted by Huntingman

Also, JackCatholic, there is another issue concering necrophylia

Scripture as a whole shows that sexual relations with another human being is SOLELY permissible with our spouse within the confines of a lawful marriage.
Having sex with a corpse is 'sin' by default because it is not with our spouse we are married to.

We cant use this to say that sex with our dead spouse is 'ok' because at death, the 'law of the husband' no longer exists (as proven in 1 Cor 7:39) and as such that marriage is over when one spouse dies.

Sex with a corpse is 'sin' by default...

 

[HuntingMan]

That's stretched so far out of logic and context it's insane.

Not to mention the fact I dealt with it already in anticipation of our friend bringing up....like 5 or 6 pages back.

Seems Jackcatholic doesnt actually bother to READ what anyone is actually saying.

 

[Floatingaxe]

Exactly I also find it hard to believe that he or anyone else who entered into a marriage by choice didn;t have any physical desire for their spouse before getting married. And your right without that physical attraction the human race would have been gone long long ago. But anyway I think it is ago to be physically attracted to someone..that is not lust....

It's a far different matter to lust after an image in one's fantasy while they play in their pants.

That is the sin of no self-control, and lust of the mind.

Give me a break! sheesh...

 

[Dannager]

Interesting that one can determine "snide" from a mere graphic...

I think it was pretty obvious.

 

[Dannager]

HUH???


2351 Lust is disordered desire for or inordinate enjoyment of sexual pleasure. Sexual pleasure is morally disordered when sought for itself, isolated from its procreative and unitive purposes.

Yes, I'm well aware that the Catholic church takes a rather archaic stance on the evils of sexual pleasure. Most Catholics I know ignore this particular set of guidelines.

 

[Dannager]

Masturbation and lust being mortal sin in the Catholic Church is doctrine and not theology and thus not open to debate.

I'm not debating the Catholic church's stance. I'm debating whether it's right.

Those outside of the Church can do as they please but a Catholic is committed to teachings of the Catholic Church when doctrine or dogma is made clear and they must submit to this teaching as though from Christ himself at the risk of Mortal Sin and as much as excommunication if it damages the Church.

Except here I am, not submitting to that teaching, along with millions of other Catholics. Whine about it all you want, but we're not cowing to idiot theology.

You are Catholic and so this is not open to debate.

I'm not debating it. I'm simply disregarding the catechism here.