Wondering if you can give me some good reasons why masturbation is a bad thing.

[HuntingMan]

Serving God takes care of idle thoughts and fleshly desires

Im sorry, but this is probably the single most unscriptural thing Ive EVER heard.

Why then didnt Paul say "If you CANNOT CONTAIN then get a job at the church"

I gave you CLEAR SCRIPTURES that show conclusively that some men CANNOT contain and youre responses are 'God will suffice' or whatever
GODS WORD is what says some men CANNOT contain.

I can deal with context so if you have something that shows that I need to amend what I believe about those passages please present it. But given the context that they are in, Id say that they show pretty much in an absolute manner that some men literally CANNOT contain themselves.
That is why Paul gave 1 Cor 7:1-2 because he knew that men would end up committing fornications if he didnt have a spouse for that release.

Now again, what about a man who no woman wants to marry ? What if he is as Paul and Christ both show and CANNOT contain ?
Ive decided nothing conclusively in the matter, save that there is no instruction in scripture on the matter, so if you have some obscure relevant passage to present Id love to see it

 

[Floatingaxe]

Im sorry, but this is probably the single most unscriptural thing Ive EVER heard.

Why then didnt Paul say "If you CANNOT CONTAIN then get a job at the church"

I gave you CLEAR SCRIPTURES that show conclusively that some men CANNOT contain and youre responses are 'God will suffice' or whatever
GODS WORD is what says some men CANNOT contain.

I can deal with context so if you have something that shows that I need to amend what I believe about those passages please present it. But given the context that they are in, Id say that they show pretty much in an absolute manner that some men literally CANNOT contain themselves.
That is why Paul gave 1 Cor 7:1-2 because he knew that men would end up committing fornications if he didnt have a spouse for that release.

Now again, what about a man who no woman wants to marry ? What if he is as Paul and Christ both show and CANNOT contain ?
Ive decided nothing conclusively in the matter, save that there is no instruction in scripture on the matter, so if you have some obscure relevant passage to present Id love to see it

How incredible!

If one is busy serving God--not just in church! (sheesh)--but with one's life, the difficulty in not having a spouse and still having desire is managed very well.

 

[HuntingMan]

Is there any way you could stop putting your posts in bold ?
Its really messing up the quote feature presently

How incredible!

The only incredible thing Ive seen here so far is your complete REJECTION by Paul AND our Lord Jesus who show that ONLY those to whom it is GIVEN can live celibate lives with hopefully no sexual desire.

You seem to think that there is an on/off switch for the hormones or something.

If one is busy serving God--not just in church! (sheesh)--but with one's life, the difficulty in not having a spouse and still having desire is managed very well.

Again...WHY didnt Paul tell these unmarrieds and widows to "If you CANNOT CONTAIN then get a job at the church" ?

Instead Paul tells them to DO something to directly fix the issue.
Granted, Paul could have told them simply to MB and get over it, but seeing that the sexual desire is directly AT the opposite gender, and MB can never fully be what a sexual relationship is (ie even chronic MBs still have that desire for intimacy and companionship), we can expect that Paul would instruct these to get a spouse.

AND...for those who cannot yet CANNOT contain ?

I havent seen you found a whole lot of your views on scripture or a logical argument but seemingly just your own personal moral agenda ('agenda' for me isnt derogatory...we ALL have an agenda when we openour mouths to teach another human being)

 

[HuntingMan]

This conversation reminds me of another one about mental disorders.
There is a chap who insists that mental issues are ALL spiritual in nature and drugs like SSRIs are all 'evil' becaues of what they do.

This person REJECTS the FACT that the brain is just another organ in the human body that has NATURAL functions that God created for it...and when those functions are off because of things like chemistry, then it can affect how a person thinks and acts WITHOUT all the demons or the person intended to behave badly.

Oddly, we can allow for justification for PHYSICAL issues such as Alzheimers when its so bad that the person is completely out of it..but when someone has a seratonin problem and subsequently an OCD issue and takes a prozac to help it, some of these folks act like we're doping up to keep from dealing with reality.

Absurd.
The brain is an organ created by God to run the body and when it is out of whack the body doesnt operate properly.

I spent 2 months pretty much out of my mind in a delusional state because of a chemistry imbalance in my BLOOD that was causing all sorts of short circuits in my brain...and the symptoms were presented in what I said and thought and what I believed was going on around me.

In the same manner, sexual desire is a PHYSICAL thing in addition to being emotional and even possibly spiritual.
We can shut down the emotional possibly, but men in particular as a whole have PHYSICAL aspects of desire that dont just shut down, but instead in the normal man continue to build up until it is almost overwhelming.

Paul and Jesus BOTH knew and understood this...hence their showing conclusively that not all men CAN contain.

Getting a job at the church or going out into a missions field isnt going to change that.
Those to whom it is GIVEN can handle celibacy..the rest cannot contain and need to marry *IF* they can find someone to marry. If they cannot and do MB, then they need to stay in a close relationship with the Father and talk to Him about the matter.

 

[Floatingaxe]

The only incredible thing Ive seen here so far is your complete REJECTION by Paul AND our Lord Jesus who show that ONLY those to whom it is GIVEN can live celibate lives with hopefully no sexual desire.

You seem to think that there is an on/off switch for the hormones or something.

You're kidding, right?

Paul is a proponent of exercising one's faith on Christ as the one who helps us do the seeming impossible!

There is an on/off switch to the will to sin. It's called self-denial. It is done in every person who is filled with the Holy Spirit and wants to live a pure life before Him.

Again...WHY didnt Paul tell these unmarrieds and widows to "If you CANNOT CONTAIN then get a job at the church" ?

Because he wasn't an immature kid who would say something like that.

Instead Paul tells them to DO something to directly fix the issue.

Granted, Paul could have told them simply to MB and get over it, but seeing that the sexual desire is directly AT the opposite gender, and MB can never fully be what a sexual relationship is (ie even chronic MBs still have that desire for intimacy and companionship), we can expect that Paul would instruct these to get a spouse.

AND...for those who cannot yet CANNOT contain ?

I havent seen you found a whole lot of your views on scripture or a logical argument but seemingly just your own personal moral agenda ('agenda' for me isnt derogatory...we ALL have an agenda when we openour mouths to teach another human being)

Where is your own scriptural strength?

Matthew 6:13
And don’t let us yield to temptation, but rescue us from the evil one.

1 Corinthians 10:13
The temptations in your life are no different from what others experience. And God is faithful. He will not allow the temptation to be more than you can stand. When you are tempted, he will show you a way out so that you can endure.

James 1:12
God blesses those who patiently endure testing and temptation. Afterward they will receive the crown of life that God has promised to those who love him.

James 1:14
Temptation comes from our own desires, which entice us and drag us away.

 

[HuntingMan]

You're kidding, right?

I would ask you the very same question, given your apparent rejection of Paul and Christs words on the matter.

Paul is a proponent of exercising one's faith on Christ as the one who helps us do the seeming impossible!

THAT is a VERY nice try.
Now WHY then didnt Paul say 'if your lusting, go work for GOD" ?

You have come up with just about every sort of whimsical answer imaginable to keep from accepting the FACT that some men CANNOT contain !

*IF* doing the impossible INCLUDED ignoring ones sexual desires, then WHY did Paul tell these to MARRY rather than BURN instead of tellng them to simply go out into the mission fields (or whatever) ?

Your assertions are simply rejecting the facts from the whole of Gods word, Im afraid, and presenting your own beliefs on the matter.

There is an on/off switch to the will to sin.

And you have NOT YET SHOWN that MB IS actually 'sin'.
You are starting with your presupposition that it IS sin and that is where you arent understanding that you have to PROVE the assertion firstly before the rest of your argument is valid.

It's called self-denial.

Ok, this I can work with...at least its somewhat relevant.

BUT...
But WHY then didnt Paul tell the unmarried and widows who 'burn' to 'deny yourself' instead of telling them to do something to relieve the sexual desire (to marry) ?
While I appreciate your attempt here to reconcile the matter, I dont believe your thoughts about self denial supercede Pauls instruction to 'do something about it' (marry) when if Paul agreed with you he could simply have said 'deny yourself'
My guess is that you dont fully understand how sexual desire works, especially for a man.

It is done in every person who is filled with the Holy Spirit and wants to live a pure life before Him.

Shall I break out Romans 7 and start showing a man named Paul who kept doing things he did not want to do ?

Because he wasn't an immature kid who would say something like that.

Are we going to keep this at an intellectual discussion or not ?
Paul could have told the unmarried and widows who were burning with passion to 'deny' themselves'.
Just as he could have told those in 1 cor 7:1-2 the very same thing...but he didnt.
He told them to DO something that would give them release and would keep them from committing sexual sin with someone not their lawful spouse (fornication)

Where is your own scriptural strength?

Please.
If you didnt read my previous posts where I CONFIRMED that Paul and Jesus BOTH show that men CANNOT contain, then you and I probably ought to just ignore each other.

Igave you scriptures that prove you are wrong....and that ONLY those to whom it is given by God can live celibate lives without sexual desire.
The rest are told to marry to deal with it.

And again, what about a man who CANNOT contain yet CANNOT find a wife ?

 

[Dannager]

Also, it is disheartening and embarrassing when a fellow Catholic proliferates sin and goes against the teaching of the Church.

It's disheartening and embarrassing when a fellow Catholic cows to nonsense theology based on a centuries-old puritanical crusade to the point where it drives otherwise decent individuals away from the church.

 

[Dannager]

What? I just gave you a scripture. Do you know what a principle is? And its not my principle, it was JESUS saying this.

Healthy for the mind and body? According to whom? Not God. So as a Christian .. debate over.

I'm far more willing to listen to doctors with years of practical medical training over an ancient book written by superstitious men.

 

[Dannager]

Money is the root of all evil.

http://www.capmag.com/article.asp?ID=1826

 

[Dannager]

How do you know it functions as part of healthy human sexuality?

You read too many secular articles, methinks.

You don't read enough.

 

[Dannager]

No it isn't! That's a lie the world has dreamed up.

Or the idea that masturbation is sinful is a lie that the world has dreamed up. And since the evidence points far more heavily in favor of masturbation being healthy than unhealthy, and God is on the side of the evidence, the only dreaming going on here is on the part of the fundamentalists.

 

[Floatingaxe]

Or the idea that masturbation is sinful is a lie that the world has dreamed up. And since the evidence points far more heavily in favor of masturbation being healthy than unhealthy, and God is on the side of the evidence, the only dreaming going on here is on the part of the fundamentalists.

Funny.

 

[Calliso]

Sorry but my wife is 40 lbs heavier and I prefer the lights off... no pictures for me even of when she was HOT

I am also certain some people get sexually aroused from animals. Does this work with your analogy?

Lust is lust.

Sex is reserved for marriage and with the possibility of life. Anything else is contrary to God and thus a sin against the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

I am pretty sure sexual desire for your own spouse isn;t the lust spoken of in the bible....

 

[Dannager]

Funny.

The fact that your best response is nothing but a snide smiley should speak for itself.

 

[Dannager]

I am pretty sure sexual desire for your own spouse isn;t the lust spoken of in the bible....

Heck, the lust spoken of in the Bible isn't the lust that we think of today when we use the word.

Sexual fantasy is not lust. The mindset of actually desiring to act on those fantasies in a very real way is what lust is.

 

[HuntingMan]

Heck, the lust spoken of in the Bible isn't the lust that we think of today when we use the word.

Sexual fantasy is not lust. The mindset of actually desiring to act on those fantasies in a very real way is what lust is.

My guess is that you and I will define 'lust' in entirely different ways, but I agree that evening talked about sex seems to be taboo in the church.

Our present ignorance about sex and fear of it seems to go all the way back to Augustine and his completely absurd views about sex, even between a man and his lawful wife. His thoughts on sex being seen almost as highly as scripture itself seems to be a lot of the problem and why the church is in the state shes in as far as trying to impose unscriptural prohibitions on even married couples (do I dare bring OS into this discussion).

 

[Calliso]

My guess is that you and I will define 'lust' in entirely different ways, but I agree that evening talked about sex seems to be taboo in the church.

Our present ignorance about sex and fear of it seems to go all the way back to Augustine and his completely absurd views about sex, even between a man and his lawful wife. His thoughts on sex being seen almost as highly as scripture itself seems to be a lot of the problem and why the church is in the state shes in as far as trying to impose unscriptural prohibitions on even married couples (do I dare bring OS into this discussion).

Probably a really dumb question but what is OS?

 

[Floatingaxe]

The fact that your best response is nothing but a snide smiley should speak for itself.

Interesting that one can determine "snide" from a mere graphic...

 

[HuntingMan]

Probably a really dumb question but what is OS?

Off topic, but oral sex, something else that is condemned without any scriptural backing.

And again, dont get me wrong, MB is a very vague area because scripture COULD literally speak against it since so many other rules for sex are included and nothing even remotely seems to bring this VERY COMMON issue up at all in Gods word ('common' meaning pretty much everyone has done it at least once in their lives whether they admit it or not. I have and I admit it...anyone else ?)

OS is another vague one because lots of folks teach that its a sin, but there just isnt anything in Gods word forbidding it.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

I am pretty sure sexual desire for your own spouse isn;t the lust spoken of in the bible....

I believe the desire I have for my wife is good because it is open to life and part of a Holy bond.

Unmarried couples and those that seek carnal pleasure outside of marriage are doing so against the way of God and this is sinful. This is Lust.