Wondering if you can give me some good reasons why masturbation is a bad thing.

[Jet_A_Jockey]

The fuzziness fo this arguement to me shows that its not a good arugment and its reaching to say something that isn't there.

as the OPer pointed out, there still hasn't been a scripture or even a good argument to say masturtion is sin.

The good arguement is if one lusts (desire,covet) to take sexually what isn't his then its sin, just as desire to steal someone's wallet would be sin. Otherwise, enjoy masturbation and thank God.

dayhiker

I've been thinking about it, and you are correct in this. Perhaps I suffer for false convictions, who knows.

 

[FLANDIDLYANDERS]

The fuzziness fo this arguement to me shows that its not a good arugment and its reaching to say something that isn't there.

as the OPer pointed out, there still hasn't been a scripture or even a good argument to say masturtion is sin.

The good arguement is if one lusts (desire,covet) to take sexually what isn't his then its sin, just as desire to steal someone's wallet would be sin. Otherwise, enjoy masturbation and thank God.

dayhiker

Good response.

It is always good to disuade people from harsh perscriptions. There is enough evil in each of us without having to make human natural things evil too!

Pauls advice, BTW, to mary if you 'burn' is very very wrong, IMO. It is such advice that is thecause of desperate christian early marriages that tend to end in divorce 10 or so years later.

Lack of sexual activity is not a voodoo-guarantee for happiness and holiness. Life is where God is.

 

[dayhiker]

Flan,
I agree with you about marring just for sex. Ofcourse in Bible days most marriages were arranged or needed to survive economically. Marring for love as we know it just wasn't thought of till 1850. At time marring for love was considered wrong and a sure way to have problems in mones marriage.
Being single again and dating, I've become aware that today the relationship based on love is so strong that its really hard to think of a long term intimate relationship that doesn't have the love as a bases for it. So if one really married to have sex there will definately be problem ... unless the love develops.

dayhiker

 

[FLANDIDLYANDERS]

I don't think it was pleasure, definitely not sexual pleasure! The perfume that she used is what they often use for burial of the dead I believe and perhaps she didn't realize that in the end, so who knows. But I think the thing that was important was that is was a sign of worship/love (no not romantic love).

Jesus said, "Leave her alone … Why are you bothering her? She has done a beautiful thing to me.”

A beautiful thing.

I am not saying it was sexual in terms of [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse], but it was a sensual device. The perfume is not specified as burial incense, it is however recognised as being a beautiful thing, which would perhaps not be the case if this were Myrr or something of the like.

The Church historically cannot relate to a sensual Jesus. But he was fully human. Sensuality and sexuality are not a sin and nor are there expressions. Lust and selfishness are sins. God looks at the heart, always has always will.

Whether the womans intent was romantic is unknown, but it still would not have been sinful if it was. Is it a sin to be attracted to someone?

 

[FLANDIDLYANDERS]

Flan,
I agree with you about marring just for sex. Ofcourse in Bible days most marriages were arranged or needed to survive economically. Marring for love as we know it just wasn't thought of till 1850. At time marring for love was considered wrong and a sure way to have problems in mones marriage.
Being single again and dating, I've become aware that today the relationship based on love is so strong that its really hard to think of a long term intimate relationship that doesn't have the love as a bases for it. So if one really married to have sex there will definately be problem ... unless the love develops.

dayhiker

The trouble is, it seems to me, is that everyone seems to be polarising sex and sexuality. Sexual expression is limited to sex - within church and without - which is only a partial context.

We end up with scenarios where some people fear their sexuality because they repress ALL sexual expression outside of marriage (typically the church) and others fear sexuality because as soon as it is expressed it is taken to mean an interest in sex! (typically the 'world')

Neither side has it right, IMO.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

The trouble is, it seems to me, is that everyone seems to be polarising sex and sexuality. Sexual expression is limited to sex - within church and without - which is only a partial context.

We end up with scenarios where some people fear their sexuality because they repress ALL sexual expression outside of marriage (typically the church) and others fear sexuality because as soon as it is expressed it is taken to mean an interest in sex! (typically the 'world')

Neither side has it right, IMO.

It seems to me that every one condoning masturbation as some natural and good thing are placing themselves before God and disregarding God as being first in everything. For God is a God of life and creation. Sex when open to life is procreative. Sex with your hand or a device or with contraceptives is closed to life as the demons are and the opposite of procreation and thus against God.

Seems to me that ignorance or a selfish nature or both would want to try and see some illusion of masturbation as being something good.

 

[Calliso]

It seems to me that every one condoning masturbation as some natural and good thing are placing themselves before God and disregarding God as being first in everything. For God is a God of life and creation. Sex when open to life is procreative. Sex with your hand or a device or with contraceptives is closed to life as the demons are and the opposite of procreation and thus against God.

Seems to me that ignorance or a selfish nature or both would want to try and see some illusion of masturbation as being something good.

In your opinion at least. And I think that is what this all comes down to opinions. I mean most sexual sins are dealt with pretty clearly in the bible..MB is not though..

 

[dayhiker]

It seems to me that every one condoning masturbation as some natural and good thing are placing themselves before God and disregarding God as being first in everything. For God is a God of life and creation. Sex when open to life is procreative. Sex with your hand or a device or with contraceptives is closed to life as the demons are and the opposite of procreation and thus against God.

Seems to me that ignorance or a selfish nature or both would want to try and see some illusion of masturbation as being something good.

I'd disagree with your premiss.
Masturbations has nothing in my mind to do with not putting God first. Yes, I agree the God is about life and creation. But sex is very seldom about creating life. If that was the case I'd only had sex twice in my life. No godly sex is almost always about pleasure. Even if one only had sex for reproduction there would still be millions and millions of sperm that would be created and die. And almost all of a woman's ovum would also die. So this arguement has no conection with the way God created things.
As for masturbation being about selfishness ... almost every thing we do is about selfishness as far as I can see.

dayhiker

 

[dayhiker]

The trouble is, it seems to me, is that everyone seems to be polarising sex and sexuality. Sexual expression is limited to sex - within church and without - which is only a partial context.

We end up with scenarios where some people fear their sexuality because they repress ALL sexual expression outside of marriage (typically the church) and others fear sexuality because as soon as it is expressed it is taken to mean an interest in sex! (typically the 'world')

Neither side has it right, IMO.

I agree wtih you flan. Good point

 

[LJSGM]

In your opinion at least. And I think that is what this all comes down to opinions. I mean most sexual sins are dealt with pretty clearly in the bible..MB is not though..

Yes, You'd think that if it was something to struggle with, they would have to have mentioned it at least ONCE, for I believe EVERY man has done it, and if they tell you they haven't, then they're lying. This is not something that only a FEW people would be doing. Yet, it's not mentioned in the bible? How strange.

As for sexual sins, they are in the bible, and I understand clearly why God's will prohibits sexual promiscuty, ect. It's easily understandable.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

In your opinion at least. And I think that is what this all comes down to opinions. I mean most sexual sins are dealt with pretty clearly in the bible..MB is not though..

Not my opinion really...

Until a year ago I would be sharing the pro-masturbation crowd's view.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

I'd disagree with your premiss.
Masturbations has nothing in my mind to do with not putting God first. Yes, I agree the God is about life and creation. But sex is very seldom about creating life. If that was the case I'd only had sex twice in my life. No godly sex is almost always about pleasure. Even if one only had sex for reproduction there would still be millions and millions of sperm that would be created and die. And almost all of a woman's ovum would also die. So this arguement has no conection with the way God created things.
As for masturbation being about selfishness ... almost every thing we do is about selfishness as far as I can see.

dayhiker

Sex should always be considered a part of making life whether we think it will happen or not.

Sex is reserved for marriage and marriage is how we emmulate God and his church. It must aslways be open to life or it is evil in nature. Also we live in a world full of evil and we were born in to sin and maintain some of it's effects. Even in scripture when they were baptized they fought with sin, including the sins of the body. Masturbation is a sin of the body.

 

[Danyc]

Sex should always be considered a part of making life whether we think it will happen or not.

Sex is reserved for marriage and marriage is how we emmulate God and his church. It must aslways be open to life or it is evil in nature. Also we live in a world full of evil and we were born in to sin and maintain some of it's effects. Even in scripture when they were baptized they fought with sin, including the sins of the body. Masturbation is a sin of the body.

What do you say to an infertile woman having sex inside marriage? It is essentially masturbation. What's the point of having sex if she cannot reproduce? By your standards that is considered evil.

 

[Calliso]

Sex should always be considered a part of making life whether we think it will happen or not.

Sex is reserved for marriage and marriage is how we emmulate God and his church. It must aslways be open to life or it is evil in nature. Also we live in a world full of evil and we were born in to sin and maintain some of it's effects. Even in scripture when they were baptized they fought with sin, including the sins of the body. Masturbation is a sin of the body.

But the thing is you have no solid evidence from the bible that says it is a sin. I mean the whole all sex must be open to life is just your church's interpretation of things. But not all Christian believe that interpretation.

 

[Calliso]

Not my opinion really...

Until a year ago I would be sharing the pro-masturbation crowd's view.

Did anything happen that made you change your mind? What makes you think MB is soo evil now?

 

[Dannager]

Not my opinion really...

Until a year ago I would be sharing the pro-masturbation crowd's view.

39 years of sanity thrown out the window because of a desire to bow to every judgment and decision of a church body. The Catholic Church is great, but it's not perfect.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

What do you say to an infertile woman having sex inside marriage? It is essentially masturbation. What's the point of having sex if she cannot reproduce? By your standards that is considered evil.

What little Faith.

God can give life even in a barren woman.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

But the thing is you have no solid evidence from the bible that says it is a sin. I mean the whole all sex must be open to life is just your church's interpretation of things. But not all Christian believe that interpretation.

Like I said to another that wanted everything spelled out.

If we go by your standard then necrophelia and many other things would be acceptable.

But the fact is that you need to develop a personal relationship with God and you will then know that God sees masturbation and necrophylia as evil.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

Did anything happen that made you change your mind? What makes you think MB is soo evil now?

Yeah... I had some very good people fasting and praying for me. God answer their prayers and I have been filled with a desire to know how God wnats us to live and not my ideals any longer.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

39 years of sanity thrown out the window because of a desire to bow to every judgment and decision of a church body. The Catholic Church is great, but it's not perfect.

Being a chaste person and living the way God wants is not insanity.

Insanity is wanting to live in as much sin as possible and still try to scrape by to get into Heaven, that is insanity.

The Catholic Church is the ONLY Church that can be the one the Apostles started because there have been no others. So I am content in my Faith that Jesus did not lie and that his Church will stand against the Gates of Hell and that the Paraclete he sent is protecting the truth of it's teachings no matter what men will do. It is this Faith that will help guide me to that narrow gate at the End.

Remember that you get one chance. Win or Lose, Heaven or Hell, for eternity. I would not judge these things so lightly for some earthly pleasure.