Wondering if you can give me some good reasons why masturbation is a bad thing.

[Danyc]

Learn to read what is posted because I am writing to a fellow Catholic. It is intended for a Catholic. So if you are not Catholic then just learn a bit about Catholicism. Stop thinking my posts about Catholicism are intended for you.

If you didn't notice, the man's trying to learn something about Catholicism. Are you going to answer his question or not? I think it would be kind of rude if you didn't.

I would also like to know...

 

[Calliso]

Interesting.

So let me get this straight.
Anyone who doesnt follow catholic 'doctrine and dogma' is 'in mortal sin' and therefore if they die in this state they what...go to hell ?

If this is the case, then are you proclaiming that EVERY protestant on this forum is currently hellbound since we would HAVE to be in 'mortal sin' because we DO debate and consequently REJECT many doctrines of the CC and by no means 'live by' those teachings (veneration of saints, for example) ?

I am very curious to know this as well. Because really it makes no sense that something like that would be a mortal sin for some but for others it wouldn;t.

 

[HuntingMan]

Learn to read what is posted because I am writing to a fellow Catholic. It is intended for a Catholic. So if you are not Catholic then just learn a bit about Catholicism. Stop thinking my posts about Ctaholicism are intended for you.

So then...

You either dont want to answer the question.

...or....

The rules for catholics dont apply to anyone BUT catholics?

This is pretty serious, chap, seeing that youve deemed that a person not following catholic teachings is in mortal sin. Dont you think the rest of us deserve a bit of warning if you feel we are in mortal sin ?

 

[JacktheCatholic]

Wow, this topic shot up.

Well, I'm going to try and ask JackTheCatholic some very simple questions; one at a time, so I don't lose him.

Jack!

Which of these gains precedence when Judgment Day comes? The views of the Catholic Church and it's Catechism, OR , the views of God's Word and the Holy Bible?

I only want you to answer me this, and only this. After that, I'll ask you my next question.

I will keep it simple for you.

Jesus left Peter to start his church and shephard his flock. This Church and it's people took on the names of Chrisitans and Catholics from the 1st century.

Jesus' entrusted the teachings of the people to his Church with the help of the Holy Spirit. Jesus' church to fight many falsehoods taught in the 16th century by Luther and Calvin and Zwingli. The Church that Jesus is building put together a book to help the many people being led astray from the teachings of Jesus and this book is called the Catechism.

So the Catechism is simple to read guide for the secular world to help them to know what Jesus' church (the Catholic Church) teaches so they can better know him and how to live. These teachings come from the Apostolic Traditions both WRITTEN and ORAL. The Written Traditions were accumilated over a couple of centuries and decided on which were canon (inspired by God) by the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church eventually decided on 27 New Testament books and the Septuagint for the Old Testament and from the late 4th century until the early 5th century put together the Vulgate.

As to Judgment day... that is for Jesus to decide. Some are going to Heaven and the rest get to spend eternity in Hell.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

So then...

You either dont want to answer the question.

...or....

The rules for catholics dont apply to anyone BUT catholics?

This is pretty serious, chap, seeing that youve deemed that a person not following catholic teachings is in mortal sin. Dont you think the rest of us deserve a bit of warning if you feel we are in mortal sin ?

Patience is a virtue... try to have some.

I have been at work and busy so I have not seen the forums.

And be less antagonistic please.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

If you didn't notice, the man's trying to learn something about Catholicism. Are you going to answer his question or not? I think it would be kind of rude if you didn't.

I would also like to know...

No I did not notice... with all the anti-catholicism in the air in here I figure it was more condescension.

First you must understand that Mortal Sin requires three things to be met and the Catechism goes over them.

One is that the person must have full knowledge of the sin. For many Protestants they are ignorant to teachings of the Church because of this man made concept invented in the 16th century called Sola Scriptura or the Bible Alone.

So if you are ignorant to the truth then it is a venial sin.

 

[FLANDIDLYANDERS]

Patience is a virtue... .

Actually old bean, patience is a fruit of the holy spirit.

 

[FLANDIDLYANDERS]

But there was the church that Jesus set up before the Catholic church. That has nothing to do with Protestant ethics or ideals... or sometimes it does... so to brush everyone with the label Protestant is untrue. Some of us are just churching it as we believe Jesus taught, protesting very little... or a lot!

 

[dayhiker]

Actually, if you havent already, do some research into Augustines perverse views of sex even between a married man and wife.
That man brought so much nonsense about sex into Christianity from his former godless religion and it has affected all of the church every since.

Ya, I've read about Augustine and his views on sex and at the time Augustine was a moderate as I read it. Jerome was worst. Then there was in about 305AD a Council of Elvira in Spain(today) there almost half of their proclamations dealt with sex in some way and 1st made it the policy that preists not have sex with their wives. "Canon 33. Bishops, presbyters, deacons, and others with a position in the ministry are to abstain completely from sexual intercourse with their wives and from the procreation of children. If anyone disobeys, he shall be removed from the clerical office. "

dayhiker

 

[Dannager]

Then do not call yourself Catholic for it is a lie if you do not follow the Catholic Church's required teaching.

I'll call myself Catholic as long as I feel the label applies to me. Much to your chagrin, I imagine, you don't have a say in that.

Doctrine and Dogma are not debatable but hard set truths that you MUST live by as a Catholic or be in Mortal Sin.

And I'm sure in your mind I'm living in mortal sin.

This is what happens when you are in mortal sin. This is a strictly adhered to teaching of the Catholic Church and to even debate Doctrine or Dogma is Mortal Sin.

Now you're treading on heretical ground yourself.

If you do not like it then too bad. This is part of Being Catholic and part of the Church with the fullest teachings of Christ.

Actually, more appropriately, if you don't like it then too bad. I'm Catholic and there isn't a thing you can do to change that, no matter how much vitriol you decide to throw out there.

This is also with in Forum guidelines since it is the Catholic teaching and very easily shown. Your ignorance and lack of adhering to your churches beliefs is simply the truth as you continue to make clear.

I'm well aware of the church's instruction. Ignorance is not something I suffer from here. I am simply in disagreement with the church.

And again, get back on topic, JacktheCatholic.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

Ya, I've read about Augustine and his views on sex and at the time Augustine was a moderate as I read it. Jerome was worst. Then there was in about 305AD a Council of Elvira in Spain(today) there almost half of their proclamations dealt with sex in some way and 1st made it the policy that preists not have sex with their wives. "Canon 33. Bishops, presbyters, deacons, and others with a position in the ministry are to abstain completely from sexual intercourse with their wives and from the procreation of children. If anyone disobeys, he shall be removed from the clerical office. "

dayhiker

I have been listening to Augustine's writings on CD (seven of them and I am on 5) and he was a wicked man before coming to the church and even after coming to the church struggled with carnal desires. It is worth reading or listening to and I recommend it.

 

[HuntingMan]

Patience is a virtue... try to have some.

I have been at work and busy so I have not seen the forums.

.

I simply made a statement...no one tried to rush you in any way at all.

Im trying to understand how you apply Gods law for one thing...how any part of the church can be exempt from them....that is *IF* you see protestants as part of the church.

And be less antagonistic please

Might i suggest the same to you?

 

[HuntingMan]

No I did not notice... with all the anti-catholicism in the air in here I figure it was more condescension.

When a catholic starts treating everyone else who disagrees with him like they are 'lesser' or..well...like theyre ignorant, as you have been, its to be expected that someone is going to respond negatively.

Any problem I have here is directly with your posts, not with the catholic church itself...which is why I told you that I was not going to allow this to turn into a catholic debate on my part since that clearly is where you keep trying to take it.

First you must understand that Mortal Sin requires three things to be met and the Catechism goes over them.

"mortal sin" ..."catechism".....I see nothing scriptural here.

One is that the person must have full knowledge of the sin. For many Protestants they are ignorant to teachings of the Church because of this man made concept invented in the 16th century called Sola Scriptura or the Bible Alone.

What all do you ADD to the bible ?
Do you add things such as the teachings of Augustine?
Are his words 'infallible' or 'inspired' ?
Any of them? All of them?
If any are but not all, how do you distinguish which are equal to scripture and which can be tossed out with last nights garbage?

Youre against scripture alone, but what all do you ADD to scripture....which has more weight....and if a man like Augustines words ARE equal with scripture if those writings conflict with the bible which is more authorative ?

So if you are ignorant to the truth then it is a venial sin.

This is just convenient way of getting around the mortal sin issue.

 

[HuntingMan]

Ya, I've read about Augustine and his views on sex and at the time Augustine was a moderate as I read it. Jerome was worst. Then there was in about 305AD a Council of Elvira in Spain(today) there almost half of their proclamations dealt with sex in some way and 1st made it the policy that preists not have sex with their wives. "Canon 33. Bishops, presbyters, deacons, and others with a position in the ministry are to abstain completely from sexual intercourse with their wives and from the procreation of children. If anyone disobeys, he shall be removed from the clerical office. "

dayhiker

Remarkable.
Ill have to read up more on Jerome since you've brought that up now.

Many of the folks I debate MDR with fall back on these early church "fathers" (?) because many of them seem to reject remarriage (altho they disagree terribly among themselves about the details) and so I like to show what other unscriptural nonsense these ECFs taught to show our readers at our site just how badly many of these men screwed up a lot of other teachings.

Personally I read the ECFs and its easy to see that those men were just as fallible and inept with Gods word as anyone today is.

 

[Danyc]

I will keep it simple for you.

Jesus left Peter to start his church and shepherd his flock. This Church and it's people took on the names of Christians and Catholics from the 1st century.

Jesus' entrusted the teachings of the people to his Church with the help of the Holy Spirit. Jesus' church to fight many falsehoods taught in the 16th century by Luther and Calvin and Zwingli. The Church that Jesus is building put together a book to help the many people being led astray from the teachings of Jesus and this book is called the Catechism.

So the Catechism is simple to read guide for the secular world to help them to know what Jesus' church (the Catholic Church) teaches so they can better know him and how to live. These teachings come from the Apostolic Traditions both WRITTEN and ORAL. The Written Traditions were accumulated over a couple of centuries and decided on which were canon (inspired by God) by the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church eventually decided on 27 New Testament books and the Septuagint for the Old Testament and from the late 4th century until the early 5th century put together the Vulgate.

As to Judgment day... that is for Jesus to decide. Some are going to Heaven and the rest get to spend eternity in Hell.

I guess the Holy Spirit didn't help them translate it clearly enough, because there are teachings in the Catholic Catechism that are not in the bible. The teaching that masturbation is a mortal sin, for example.
Nobody in this thread has given definite evidence, from scripture, that masturbation is a sin.
And Scripture is what matters at the end of the day, NOT anybody's catechism.

You never really answered my question; you simply gave me a history lesson.

As to Judgment day... that is for Jesus to decide. Some are going to Heaven and the rest get to spend eternity in Hell.

(Thanks for that; I mean, I'd have never known if you hadn't told me.)

You seem to skate around giving an answer here...well, obviously Jesus will decide, what's your point? I'm asking you which has authority: God's Word or the word of a Catechism? Therefore, don't go around teaching from your Catechism; go teach from God's Word, which is not fallible.

 

[HuntingMan]

Ya, I've read about Augustine and his views on sex and at the time Augustine was a moderate as I read it. Jerome was worst. Then there was in about 305AD a Council of Elvira in Spain(today) there almost half of their proclamations dealt with sex in some way and 1st made it the policy that preists not have sex with their wives. "Canon 33. Bishops, presbyters, deacons, and others with a position in the ministry are to abstain completely from sexual intercourse with their wives and from the procreation of children. If anyone disobeys, he shall be removed from the clerical office. "

dayhiker

Just been reading some of Jerome....yeah...he was a whacked as Augustine if not moreso.
Ill have to add a bunch of his nonsense to my ECFs page at some point soon so our readers see just what kind of tripe those men actually taught.

 

[Gukkor]

In response to the OP, no I can't.

 

[Annabel Lee]

Just been reading some of Jerome....yeah...he was a whacked as Augustine if not moreso.
Ill have to add a bunch of his nonsense to my ECFs page at some point soon so our readers see just what kind of tripe those men actually taught.

Hey HM

 

[HuntingMan]

Hey HM

howdy Annabel
As you can see, Im trying my best to keep out of a protestant/catholic thing

 

[Annabel Lee]

howdy Annabel
As you can see, Im trying my best to keep out of a protestant/catholic thing

I noticed! It just seems to follow you around where ever you go!

Hope everything is going well with you.