With all your heart?

[grasping the after wind]

Why do you think it is not possible for us to love God with all our heart?

1) Because our love of ourself will always get in the way of accomplishing it.
2) Because we aren't now capable of knowing God intimately enough to be overwhelmed by Who He Is.
3) Because God is not vulnerable in our eyes and we love those that are vulnerable more than others. Perhaps because we do not feel they are capable of harming us.

I suppose there are more reasons but basically it is because we as flawed human beings always withhold at least some part of our heart.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

No, not what I said.

Actually that is correct, I was responding to Mark Quayle in that post.

 

[Swag365]

1) Because our love of ourself will always get in the way of accomplishing it.
2) Because we aren't now capable of knowing God intimately enough to be overwhelmed by Who He Is.
3) Because God is not vulnerable in our eyes and we love those that are vulnerable more than others. Perhaps because we do not feel they are capable of harming us.

I suppose there are more reasons but basically it is because we as flawed human beings always withhold at least some part of our heart.

What about the martyrs though? No greater love than to give one's life. How can we say that they loved themselves more, when they gave up their very lives for our Lord?

 

[returntosender]

That's cool. I don't think it concludes logically. Just because you choose to sin today, does not mean that you are destined to sin tomorrow. The opposite is also true.

What Christian chooses to sin?

 

[Aussie Pete]

You admit that perfection isn’t possible, yet you claim to love God perfectly. How do you reconcile those two?

Because the real "me" is not the person that I was born. Sin is an aberration, not the normal. If I'm out of line, Lord Jesus, who is my life, is not. Righteousness is a gift to me. It is a person - Lord Jesus. When God looks at me, He sees Jesus - Colossians 3:3, one of my favourite verses. If I focus on Lord Jesus, I have love, peace and joy in experience. If I look at circumstances or myself, I get discouraged and sad. During those "down" times, Lord Jesus just keeps on being Himself, representing me to God. I get clean when I confess my sin. God erases my sin and there is no record of it. If Christians really knew who they are in Christ, a lot of problems would simply evaporate.

 

[returntosender]

If I testify about myself, my witness is not valid.
John 5:31

However, I don’t think loving God from all of your heart means you are then also perfect.

I like this, I don't remember seeing that before and I just read John last month, oops.

 

[Hammster]

Yes of course, I don’t sin willfully. If I recognize something as a sin I don’t do it. It’s when I stumble that I sin.

Really? You only sin on accident?

 

[Hammster]

Because the real "me" is not the person that I was born. Sin is an aberration, not the normal. If I'm out of line, Lord Jesus, who is my life, is not. Righteousness is a gift to me. It is a person - Lord Jesus. When God looks at me, He sees Jesus - Colossians 3:3, one of my favourite verses. If I focus on Lord Jesus, I have love, peace and joy in experience. If I look at circumstances or myself, I get discouraged and sad. During those "down" times, Lord Jesus just keeps on being Himself, representing me to God. I get clean when I confess my sin. God erases my sin and there is no record of it. If Christians really knew who they are in Christ, a lot of problems would simply evaporate.

Looks like in those “down” times, you aren’t loving God with all your heart.

 

[BNR32FAN]

1) Because our love of ourself will always get in the way of accomplishing it.
2) Because we aren't now capable of knowing God intimately enough to be overwhelmed by Who He Is.
3) Because God is not vulnerable in our eyes and we love those that are vulnerable more than others. Perhaps because we do not feel they are capable of harming us.

I suppose there are more reasons but basically it is because we as flawed human beings always withhold at least some part of our heart.

If we love ourself more than we love God why are there so many martyrs?

the second and third points are merely opinions. I don’t love someone because I think they’re vulnerable and can’t hurt me. People are hurt by loved ones all the time. I would be very surprised to think that not everyone has been hurt by a loved one.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Really? You only sin on accident?

Yes

 

[Aussie Pete]

You admit that perfection isn’t possible, yet you claim to love God perfectly. How do you reconcile those two?

Further to my previous comment, God will not demand anything of us without giving us grace to comply. Just because someone sins, it does not demonstrate that he does not love God. It proves that he has not yet been perfected.

 

[fhansen]

Further to my previous comment, God will not demand anything of us without giving us grace to comply. Just because someone sins, it does not demonstrate that he does not love God. It proves that he has not yet been perfected.

As I've come to believe, the two are inseparable: fully loving God and attaining perfection. As a person comes to love God with their whole heart etc then their attraction to anything other, anything less would finally be excluded.

 

[Always in His Presence]

Can we, in our fallen-but-redeemed state here on Earth, love God with all of our heart? Or does our flesh prevent us from doing so?

I have no doubt my children love me with all their heart. My grand children also. Does that mean they are perfect? No Does that mean they always follow instructions and do my will? No. Does that mean there are times they are mean, disrespectful and defiant - Yes.

Believe it or not, there have been times that their actions and attitudes effected their ability to sit down comfortably.

But their love for me, and mine for them never changed. Love that is performance based is a sign of manipulation.

Jesus said in John 14:15 "if you love me, keep My commandments." Jesus did not say if you keep my commandments I will love you.

Righteousness and obedience is an expression of our love. That is learned and enhanced AFTER we have fallen in love with Him.

 

[Swag365]

What Christian chooses to sin?

Me, for example.

 

[Aussie Pete]

As I've come to believe, the two are inseparable: fully loving God and attaining perfection. As a person comes to love God with their whole heart etc then their attraction to anything other, anything less would finally be excluded.

That is a lifetime project. Anyone who thinks they are perfect is deluded. The reason is that we see more and more of our own unworthiness as we get closer to God. And we do not change. That is also something people do not realise. Spiritual maturity comes about as the self of the soul is weakened and the life of Christ becomes more prominent. Another issue is our definition of sin. Very often it is shallow compared to God's standard - Jesus. One day we shall be like Him. That will be the most glorious day ever. Until then, he who thinks he stands watch out, in case he falls.

 

[Aussie Pete]

Looks like in those “down” times, you aren’t loving God with all your heart.

No, but Jesus is. He is my life. I suffer during the downtimes but God is not looking at me to perform. He already knows what I'm like. That's why He included me in the death of Christ. Satan's main attack on Christians is to get them to consider themselves apart from Christ. That is a lie. God puts us into Christ and no one can take us out again. While we abide in that truth, we are safe.

 

[fhansen]

That is a lifetime project. Anyone who thinks they are perfect is deluded. The reason is that we see more and more of our own unworthiness as we get closer to God. And we do not change. That is also something people do not realise. Spiritual maturity comes about as the self of the soul is weakened and the life of Christ becomes more prominent. Another issue is our definition of sin. Very often it is shallow compared to God's standard - Jesus. One day we shall be like Him. That will be the most glorious day ever. Until then, he who thinks he stands watch out, in case he falls.

Yes??-of course! The point is that perfection will be attained in us, by God as we remain in Him. He didn't create us to be imperfect after all and yet this life is meant to be a sort of journey towards the perfection He has in mind for us. And it's probably more than a lifetime project that will be culminated in the next life when we finally meet Him. Then we simply won't want for anything more, anything else; the absolute fulfillment of all human desire, the source of unbridled peace and happiness for man, will be in front of us and nothing else will be anywhere near equal to the task of commanding our adoration, our love.

Anyway, the basis, the essence, of man's righteousness or justice is union with God. Adam dismissed it, having not yet gained an appreciation for God and his need for Him, wishing to check out any and all other options and attractions, wishing to be his own "god" IOW. And the authentic bonding agent for that union is love. Had Adam possessed that love in Eden, obedience would've flowed of its own accord. But he had to go on his own journey, as we all do now, and I'd be willing to bet he possesses that love today.

 

[Mark Quayle]

The reason it's called sin isn't that because we could do otherwise? If we can't do what Jesus asks of us, is it then sin when we fail?

In Scripture, sin is described many ways: Fallen short of the glory of God. Rebellion against God. Failure to fulfill the law in any respect is transgression against the whole law. But I don't remember hearing it called sin because we could have done otherwise.

Even in secular matters, ignorance of the law is no excuse. And that is not even only about moral things. Why would we not think it sin to merely fail to live up to God's every command? Ignorance of the command is not an excuse. Right is right, and wrong is wrong. Thank God he looks on the heart to judge the deeds, but remember HE knows. HE is just, thoroughly and precisely just.

 

[Mark Quayle]

From what I understood from what @Hammster wrote, he was taking the position that even everything that a post-conversion "saved" Christian does is sin, if not done for the explicit glory of God. But perhaps I misunderstood him, or that view.

Yes, I think you misunderstood him. Everything that happens is for the glory of God, in the long run, regardless of our intentions or abilities. "Explicitly intended for the glory of God" does not justify anyone's deeds or even thoughts. It is because of the Spirit of God in us that anything we do has any value behind the intention.

 

[GraceBro]

Can we, in our fallen-but-redeemed state here on Earth, love God with all of our heart? Or does our flesh prevent us from doing so?

The flesh prevents us from doing this. The command to love God was said to bury us under its impossibility so we would realize our need for God's grace and mercy.