Witchcraft in the Church

[ViaCrucis]

Just because the past did it the wrong way doesnt mean we now, with knowledge of the past, cant do it the right way.

I don't understand the obsession some have with Satan. Why do so many Christians wish to glorify the devil by ascribing to him power that he simply does not have. Christ had beaten him, Christ has triumphed over him, the devil is beaten down, laid low, crushed beneath the heel of Jesus Christ our Lord. St. James says we merely need to resist the devil and he will flee.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

Then how can the enemy steal, kill and destroy?

By lying.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Natsumi Lam]

Orthodox Christian teaching is fundamentally at odds with belief in magick.
-CryptoLutheran

Isnt it good the church is apposed to sin that parts of it are considered abominations.

Its like if the church was a ok with homosexuality and crossdressing as a lifestyle. There is a line according to God.

Love the sinner abhor the sin.

This is why jesus put instructions in place for corrective addressment of perpetual sin.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I don't understand the obsession some have with Satan. Why do so many Christians which to glorify the devil by ascribing to him power that he simply does not have. Christ had beaten him, Christ has triumphed over him, the devil is beaten down, laid low, crushed beneath the heel of Jesus Christ our Lord. St. James says we merely need to resist the devil and he will flee.

-CryptoLutheran

Yes, I know that St. James says this, but it might be that you're reading a tad bit too much into that one single verse alone? Could it be that you read it this way because you have your own predilections about 'which' eschatology we should all just assume to be true? Sure, we have authority over the spirits, but this doesn't mean that we have the power to remove Satan from office if he is so installed in any one of hundreds of nations.

 

[Natsumi Lam]

By lying.

-CryptoLutheran

Is that the only way?

Why do we have to put on the armour...for only lieing?

The enemy is a snake a lion the waits to devour. Is that only through lieing?

 

[Natsumi Lam]

Yes, I know that St. James says this, but it might be that you're reading a tad bit too much into that one single verse alone? Could it be that you read it this way because you have your own predilections about 'which' eschatology we should all just assume to be true? Sure, we have authority over the spirits, but this doesn't mean that we have the power to remove Satan from office if he is so installed in any one of hundreds of nations.

But we can claim victory over our church as a house of God. The Holy Spirit gives us victory and gifts to edifty the body.

So you think we are helpless to remove him from our congregations?

Do you think there is no hope of victory in our areas of influence?

 

[2PhiloVoid]

But we can claim victory over our church as a house of God. The Holy Spirit gives us victory and gifts to edifty the body.

So you think we are helpless to remove him from our congregations?

Do you think there is no hope of victory in our areas of influence?

No, I think we can have some victory in our local areas of influence. But, let's remember, in the Christian life, as tradition/history relates to us about how the Apostles likely ended their lives, the Devil doesn't lay down his scepter without a fight. And while he might run away, this doesn't mean that the awful things he sets in motion just stop because we've attempted to intercede in the authority of the Lord. No, we as Christians can suffer and die even in the midst of our attempts to stand for our faith or to "claim" victory over the evil one.

So, as Paul and Peter, and others in the New Testament admonish us to do, we need to be sober about how the Lord fully intends to work all of this out in the world in the long term. We Christians aren't going to win at every turn and juncture just because Jesus is Lord and Savior; but what we are guaranteed is that when the smoke of the future finally clears............Jesus is still Lord and Savior.

 

[Natsumi Lam]

Keep in mind ...exposing the enemy..not the witch but the sin...is not a preoccupation of the enemy. Some are called to have the gift of discernment for a reason. It is not a passive gift but to reveal and question and test the spirits to edify the body.

 

[Natsumi Lam]

No, I think we can have some victory in our local areas of influence. But, let's remember, in the Christian life, as tradition/history relates to us about how the Apostles likely ended their lives, the Devil doesn't lay down his scepter without a fight.

then we better claim our victory and fight the good fight and endour to the end.

And while he might run away, this doesn't mean that the awful things he sets in motion just stop because we've attempted to intercede in the authority of the Lord. No, we as Christians can suffer and die even in the midst of our attempts to stand for our faith or to "claim" victory over the evil one.

Those who are called to the front line better put on the amour, fight the good fight and endour to the end.

So, as Paul and Peter, and others in the New Testament admonish us to do, we need to be sober about how the Lord fully intends to work all of this out in the world in the long term. We Christians aren't going to win at every turn and juncture just because Jesus is Lord and Savior; but what we are guaranteed is that when the smoke of the future finally clears............Jesus is still Lord and Savior.

Be sober be vigilant it says in 1 peter 5:8. Vigilant is an active word. We are to put on the armour for a reason. It is a battle. A battle that is daily.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

then we better claim our victory and fight the good fight and endour to the end.



Those who are called to the front line better put on the amour, fight the good fight and endour to the end.


Be sober be vigilant it says in 1 peter 5:8. Vigilant is an active word.

Exactly! I can see you understand, Natsumi Lam!

 

[Natsumi Lam]

Exactly! I can see you understand, Natsumi Lam!

So what would you do as far as the OP?

 

[Natsumi Lam]

No, I think we can have some victory in our local areas of influence. But, let's remember, in the Christian life, as tradition/history relates to us about how the Apostles likely ended their lives, the Devil doesn't lay down his scepter without a fight. And while he might run away, this doesn't mean that the awful things he sets in motion just stop because we've attempted to intercede in the authority of the Lord. No, we as Christians can suffer and die even in the midst of our attempts to stand for our faith or to "claim" victory over the evil one.

So, as Paul and Peter, and others in the New Testament admonish us to do, we need to be sober about how the Lord fully intends to work all of this out in the world in the long term. We Christians aren't going to win at every turn and juncture just because Jesus is Lord and Savior; but what we are guaranteed is that when the smoke of the future finally clears............Jesus is still Lord and Savior.

Shouldnt we follow the guiding of the Holy Spirit if He calls us to the fight? If He wants the victory, He will get it. He many times uses our hands a feet to lead the way.

discern the problem with the gifts
identify the problem
pray and many times fast, prayer covering and the Word
with God's guidance and allowance... attack the problem or sin, not attack the sinner
If God wants the battle won, with our obedience and His guidance we will be victorious!

Please fill in if i have missed anything in the steps.

 

[Natsumi Lam]

Exactly! I can see you understand, Natsumi Lam!

Than what are you afraid of?

If the Lord has identified the issue.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

So what would you do as far as the OP?

Well, I'm not a pastor, nor do I have the gift of it. So, from that general angle I can't say for sure. But I do know that I'd start with those actions that I mentioned back up in posts #16 and #17.

As far as an actual spiritual model of 'how' I'd conceptualize our spiritual warfare with these kinds of things, I'd tend to lean more towards the model of David Powlison as described in the book, Understanding Spiritual Warfare: Four Views (2012), but without ignoring altogether the other views and experiences that my brothers and sisters in Christ may have.

 

[Natsumi Lam]

Well, I'm not a pastor, nor do I have the gift of it. So, from that general angle I can't say for sure. But I do know that I'd start with those actions that I mentioned back up in posts #16 and #17.

As far as an actual spiritual model of 'how' I'd conceptualize our spiritual warfare with these kinds of things, I'd tend to lean more towards the model of David Powlison as described in the book, Understanding Spiritual Warfare: Four Views (2012), but without ignoring altogether the other views and experiences that my brothers and sisters in Christ may have.

Ill check out that book

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Than what are you afraid of?

If the Lord has identified the issue.

Afraid? You're funny, Sis!

 

[Phil 1:21]

How would you deal with the situation post exposure?

Well, first I would test the person to see if they were actually a witch. This requires a balance beam scale and a duck. And once I determined they weren't a witch I'd do what Via Crucis suggested.

 

[Natsumi Lam]

Well, first I would test the person to see if they were actually a witch. This requires a balance beam scale and a duck. And once I determined they weren't a witch I'd do what Via Crucis suggested.

Dont you realize how benefical and helpful sarcasm is?

 

[Natsumi Lam]

Well, first I would test the person to see if they were actually a witch. This requires a balance beam scale and a duck. And once I determined they weren't a witch I'd do what Via Crucis suggested.

Do you believe the supernatural gift of discernment is in effect today?

 

[Phil 1:21]

Dont you realize how benefical and helpful sarcasm is?

"A cheerful heart is good medicine" Proverb 17:22a