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Win a debate against evolution every time.

jilfe

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It only looks that way to those who do not accept God as the creator of all, just as the Bible is written for anyone to see it for themseves.

God's Word comes first, then ask God to show how the science fits in,
then and only then will you be able to see the reality of the truth of everything scientifically.
 
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KhaosTheory

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It only looks that way to those who do not accept God as the creator of all, just as the Bible is written for anyone to see it for themseves.

God's Word comes first, then ask God to show how the science fits in,
then and only then will you be able to see the reality of the truth of everything scientifically.

Ok, so if I'm unable to ignore all the evidence and suspend my critical thinking skills then I can't be a true Christian?
 
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jilfe

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Ignoring science discoveries, is better than ignoring GODS written WORD.

The only evidence of measurable true so called evolutionary changes, is the RESULT of the SUPERNATURAL CREATIVE activity that God did.

It is NOT the cause, but a result.

Natural phenomena, is only the result of creation.
 
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Papias

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jinx wrote:

I cant find a site on him either, he is a biological physicist.

We looked at two bios of him, neither of which listed any biological degree nor credentials. Your simple statement that "he is a biological physicist" is not evidence that he is, or that he has any biology degrees, which, I've been asking for (and not being given) post after post, in response to your claims that he does.


His book "Not by chance" analyzes the mutations that neodarwinism worships

Yes, and so he's obviously talking about something he doesn't understand. You can find all kinds of books by people who have no education in the area they are talking about - and they don't know what they are talking about either.

So, again, do you have any source that shows he has any education in biology?



He is a YEC. I dont know where it says his ideas are lamarckism.

Didn't you read the links I posted? I posted a link showing that it is recognized that his idea are larmarckian.


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Jilfe wrote:
It only looks that way to those who do not accept God as the creator of all, just as the Bible is written for anyone to see it for themseves.

Jilfe, did you know that the most prominent geologists who proved an old earth are Christians (including a minister), and that the same holds true for our modern understanding of evolution? Evolution and an old earth are ideas with a mostly Christian, not atheist, origin.

Papias
 
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jilfe

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That's why more and more Christian scientists, are being awakened by the Holy Spirit, to look at God's Word as the final authority, and to study and apply there research under the Biblical text, and God is bringing to light amazing discoveries, that confirm His own written Word.

There are scripture verses other than in Genesis, that speaks about creation, and God as the creator, that even these verses speak very clearly AGAINST macro evolutionm.
Every verse in the Bible speaks of creation as a SPECIAL creation, done entirely SUPERNATURALLY.

The wholke point about understanding the origins, is written in the Bible as being Supernatural, the natural laws were not used by God, the natural laws of physics were created by God, just as all creation was done Supernaturally.

This is not a personal opinion,
anyone can read this for themselves in the Bible.






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Papias

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jilfe wrote:
That's why more and more Christian scientists, are being awakened by the Holy Spirit, to look at God's Word as the final authority....

What do you mean by "that's"? The fact that the age of the earth was discovered by Christians, and that most of the early work to establish macro-evolution was done by Christians?

I guess I don't see how your response follows from my post that evolution and an old earth are ideas with a mostly Christian, not atheist, origin.



There are scripture verses other than in Genesis, that speaks about creation, and God as the creator,

Of course - didn't you see progmonk's poll thread? We all agree that God did the creating. If you want to argue with atheists, go find them - we are Christians here in this subforum.


that even these verses speak very clearly AGAINST macro evolutionm.

I'm not aware of any verse that so much as mentions macro evolution. If you know of any, please point them out.

Every verse in the Bible speaks of creation as a SPECIAL creation, done entirely SUPERNATURALLY.

Similarly, I'm waiting for you to back this up with scripture that includes the words "special" or "supernatually", which your post above seems to be saying are in the Bible.

The wholke point about understanding the origins, is written in the Bible as being Supernatural, the natural laws were not used by God, the natural laws of physics were created by God, just as all creation was done Supernaturally.

The natural laws are not used by God? You don't think God is acting through the natural laws all the time? Have you not read John 5:17 nor Heb 1:11? It sounds like you want to push God out of the natural world.


With His love-

Papias

******************

P. S. It appears that some goalposts have been moved wrt the flagellum. First, it was suggested that Behe's argument (which is that no possible route for the evolution of the flagellum can be found) supports creationism. Then, Khaos posted a video showing exactly such a route (and thus showing that Behe's argument is wrong). Smidlee then moved the goalposts from "no route can be found" to "now prove that this is the route that was taken".

So, it is noted here that Khaos has already won the discussion about whether or not a route can be shown for the flagellum (thus showing that Behe's "irreducible complexity" argument is invalid), and that the discussion has moved on to whether or not that route actually happened (or if the parts evolved from the motor as Smidlee now suggests) - the first question being resolved.

Lastly, it seems that the biologists agree that the the evolution went from the parts to the flagellum, not the other way around, but as noted, that's a separate question.
 
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jilfe

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Here are a few verses other than the actual creation account in Genesis,
that shows complete evidence, that God created all things as a special creation SUPERNATURALLY,, and these verses speak totally AGAINST

(the concept of macroevolution, the theory of macroevolution, the ideas of macroevolution, the suggestion of macroevolution, the hint of macroevolution, the underlining concept of macroevolution, the basis of understanding of macroevolution, the nonwritten wording but concept of macroevolution, the not exact words but the concept of macroevolution, the tadays understanding of macroevolution, the todays modern wording of the concept of macroevolution,), I hope I covered all the misinterpretations I gave by some how given the idea that I meant that macroevolution was written in the Bible,

With these verses as well as the whole salvation message in the Bible, doesn't make you realize that God did it as Special Supernatural creation, with specific purpose and perfect timing ect.... Than your so far from human help we have done all we can, and only God can rescue you, now...

Here are some verses.

Deut:4:32: For ask now of the days that are past, which were before thee, since the day that God created man upon the earth, and ask from the one side of heaven unto the other, whether there hath been any such thing as this great thing is, or hath been heard like it?

Isa:42:5: Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein:

Isa:43:7: Even every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him.

Isa:45:12: I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded.

sa:45:18: For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.

Ezek:28:13: Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

Ezek:28:15: Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

Amos:4:13: For, lo, he that formeth the mountains, and createth the wind, and declareth unto man what is his thought, that maketh the morning darkness, and treadeth upon the high places of the earth, The LORD, The God of hosts, is his name.

Mal:2:10: Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us? why do we deal treacherously every man against his brother, by profaning the covenant of our fathers?

Mk:13:19: For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be

1Cor:11:9: Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.

Eph:3:9: And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

Col:1:16: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

Rv:4:11: Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Rv:10:6: And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:

Isa:40:28: Hast thou not known? hast thou not heard, that the everlasting God, the LORD, the Creator of the ends of the earth, fainteth not, neither is weary? there is no searching of his understanding.

Ps:95:6: O come, let us worship and bow down: let us kneel before the LORD our maker.

Isa:17:7: At that day shall a man look to his Maker, and his eyes shall have respect to the Holy One of Israel.

Isa:51:13: And forgettest the LORD thy maker, that hath stretched forth the heavens, and laid the foundations of the earth; and hast feared continually every day because of the fury of the oppressor, as if he were ready to destroy? and where is the fury of the oppressor?

Jer:33:2: Thus saith the LORD the maker thereof, the LORD that formed it, to establish it; the LORD is his name;

Mt:19:4: And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,

Mk:10:6: But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female.

Jn:1:1: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Jn:1:2: The same was in the beginning with God.

Acts:15:18: Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.
 
Eph:3:9: And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

Heb:1:10: And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:

2Pt:3:4: And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

Rom:1:3: Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;

Heb:2:16: For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

Jn:1:3: All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Jn:1:10: He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

Jn:1:14: And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Amen and amen.
 
 
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KhaosTheory

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I think this whole debate hinges on our disagreement over these two positions:

One side has an unshakable belief that the entire Bible (except the parts that have been removed over the years) is the literal, historic Word of God containing no metaphors, taking no poetic license, and not subject to any human perspective or interpretation.

The other side, however, believes that taking the Bible literally would degrades it's eternal meaning. They realize that the Word of God is His divine revelation to man and that it should be used as a spiritual guide to determine the will of God -not as a science or history book. They realize that man isn't perfect and makes mistakes. Man also can't be expected to make complete sense out of the inspiration they received from God.

If you think hard enough about it you'll realize that a strict, literalist, interpretation of the Bible is often untenable and sometimes even contradictory. That is unless you are willing to force you brain into denying large segments of reality in order to maintain your position.

Personally, I don't think God meant for us to be forced to ignore and suppress our scientific inquiry, our critical thinking skills, and our general curiosity about the universe.

I think the findings of modern cosmology and biology that literalists work so hard to suppress are actually wonderful examples of God's power and it's a shame that some people want to ignore all that.
 
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KhaosTheory

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I feel like I need to explain why I said the literalist interpretation is contradictory. This is because NO ONE takes the Bible completely literally even when they say they do.

For example, There is no figurative way of interpreting Leviticus 20:13 or Exodus 22:18. You either think it's a good idea to kill homosexuals and witches or you don't. If you don't, then say so -- and then be honest enough to admit that the Bible is neither a good moral guide nor the infallible inspired word of God.

I understand that most literalists except that the Bible does contain SOME allegory and metaphor but they believe they have a way to determine which parts are clearly so and which are not. This is an untenable position because if you ask a hundred fundamentalists you'll get a hundred different opinions on which parts are literal or metaphor.

There supposedly is some easy-to-use guide to determine which parts are clearly metaphor and which parts are meant to be read as factual history but every Hebrew linguist or theologian you ask will give you a slightly different opinion!

Is this not blaring evidence that the literalist interpretation is greatly susceptible to human fallibility? If you realize this, then how can you maintain your position that the entire Bible is the strict, literal, infallible Word of God?
 
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Blackwater Babe

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I feel like I need to explain why I said the literalist interpretation is contradictory. This is because NO ONE takes the Bible completely literally even when they say they do.

For example, There is no figurative way of interpreting Leviticus 20:13 or Exodus 22:18. You either think it's a good idea to kill homosexuals and witches or you don't. If you don't, then say so -- and then be honest enough to admit that the Bible is neither a good moral guide nor the infallible inspired word of God.

I understand that most literalists except that the Bible does contain SOME allegory and metaphor but they believe they have a way to determine which parts are clearly so and which are not. This is an untenable position because if you ask a hundred fundamentalists you'll get a hundred different opinions on which parts are literal or metaphor.

There supposedly is some easy-to-use guide to determine which parts are clearly metaphor and which parts are meant to be read as factual history but every Hebrew linguist or theologian you ask will give you a slightly different opinion!

Is this not blaring evidence that the literalist interpretation is greatly susceptible to human fallibility? If you realize this, then how can you maintain you position that the entire Bible is the strict, literal, infallible Word of God?
I've never met a literalist who felt the "give all you have to the poor and follow me" bit was meant to be taken literally.
 
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Blackwater Babe

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Damn your both right sigh yep ill just trade in Gods word in genesis for the opinion of men thanks for the correction haha
So, when you or a loved one gets bitten by a brown snake next time you'r out in the bush, are you going to try the Biblical cure for snakebite, or try out what the opinion of men has to say on the subject?
 
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samaus12345

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Blackwater babe.

If you do have dark skin, you do realise based on Charles Darwins Origin of species and Descent of man you are an inferior 'race'? As science now knows, there is no such thing as 'race' other than in a cultural/loosely defined sense. We all descended from Adam And Eve, from which Eve descended from Adams rib.

I notice the statue of liberty in your details please see my expose on revelation 17 and 18.

Revelation 17 and 18.pdf
 
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Blackwater Babe

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Blackwater babe.

If you do have dark skin, you do realise based on Charles Darwins Origin of species and Descent of man you are an inferior 'race'? As science now knows, there is no such thing as 'race' other than in a cultural/loosely defined sense. We all descended from Adam And Eve, from which Eve descended from Adams rib.

I notice the statue of liberty in your details please see my expose on revelation 17 and 18.

Revelation 17 and 18.pdf
I'd suggest you read origin of species for yourself, because it doesn't say what you've clearly been told it says.

So if we all descend from Adam and Eve, what colour were they?
 
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