Win a debate against evolution every time.

[jilfe]

Using a sentence of seven words in a question form, and expounding on that one sentence only, is gauranteed to win a debate against evolution all the time no matter what sub theory they choose to use.

Here is an excerpt from a evolution web page:

"quote"
The modern theory of evolution is
based on two primary tenets

All living things are related to
one another to varying degrees through common decent (share common ancestors),
have developed from other species, and all life forms have a single common ancestor.

The origin of a new species results
from random heritable genetic mutations (changes), some of which are more likely to spread and persist in a gene pool than others. Mutations that result in an
advantage to survive and reproduce are more likely to be retained and propagated
than mutations that do not result in a survival to reproduce
advantage.
"unquote"
　
Here are the seven words to win every debate against evolution, and as well as inviting the person your debating with to finally admit that God is the originator of all things, they won't come outright and say it, but they will use a phrase that will pertain to the Spiritual being the originator of all that exists in the physical realm.

The seven word sentence is this,
(Where did all that information come from?)

Using the excerpt above here is an example of applying this truth.

"quote"
All living things are related to
one another to varying degrees through common decent (share common ancestors), have developed from other species, and all life forms have a single common ancestor.
"unquote"
　
"All living things are related to
one another "

1). Where did all that information come from to make it possible for all things to be related to one another?
2). where did all that information come from that determines that all things should be related to one another?
3) where did all that information come from that it should be all living things.
4) where did all that information come from that makes it possible for the thing to be living.

"to varying degrees "

1) where did all that information come from that determines the varying degree for each thing?
2) where did all that information come from to determine there should be a variance in the first place?
3) where did all that information come from to make it possible for there to be this variance in degrees?

"through common decent (share common ancestors),"

1) Where did all that information come from that makes it possible for there to be common ancestory?
2) where did all that information come from that determines that this needs to work through a common ancestory?

"have developed from other species"

1) where did all the information come from that makes it possible for this development to take place?
2) where did all the information come from that determines there should be this development in the first place?
　
Here is the other quote

"Quote"
The origin of a new species results
from random heritable genetic mutations (changes), some of which are more likely to spread and persist in a gene pool than others. Mutations that result in an
advantage to survive and reproduce are more likely to be retained and propagated
than mutations that do not result in a survival to reproduce
advantage.
"unquote"
　
1) where did all the information come from that determines there shoukld be a new species to originate?
2) where did all the information come from that makes it possible for a new species to originate?
　
from random heritable genetic mutations (changes)"

1) where did all the info, come from to make it possible to be a random selection?
2) where did all the info come from to make up the genetics in the first place.
3) where did the info, come from that determines the ability for these changes to take place?

"some of which are more likely to spread and persist in a gene pool than others. "

1) where did the info come from that it should be determined to spread, where did the info come from that makes it possible to spread, and persist?

"Mutations that result in an
advantage to survive and reproduce are more likely to be retained and propagated "

1) where did all the info come from that determines the ability to survive?
2) where did the info come from that makes it possible to reproduce?
3) where did all the information come from that determines there is a need to reproduce?

In conclusion:

Now after all the questions asked, they will finally say," that it has been proven scientifically that all matter cannot be created or destroyed, that makes the whole universe eternal and infinite."

1) Where did all that information come from that determines that it should be eternal and infinite?
2) where did all the info come from to make it possible to be eternal and infinite?
　
This is NOT to suggest that God used evolution,
BUT RATHER that if it takes a eternal infinite Spiritual being to be the originator of all things, because with the question asked "where did all that information come from?; cannot be answered truthfully without finally having to admit there is no answer.

Therefor look to His Word (The Holy Bible) to see what God has already told mankind how all things came into existence.

By Him (FATHER SON HOLY SPIRIT) as our Creator.
　

 

[samaus12345]

yes lol the 'i' word is not a good word for "evolution". Thats why we never here the genome being discussed in terms of 'information' by evolutionary preaches.

 

[Rusticus]

You said it only takes seven words. But you have used hundreds (if not more). I'm still none the wiser....

 

[samaus12345]

"Source of NEW FUNCTIONAL INFORMATION?" Depending on the level of indoctrination one may respond "mutations!".

 

[KhaosTheory]

What exactly is "information"?

You know DNA is just the chemical reactions of 4 basic "letters" or chemicals, right?

Similarly, the English language is made of 26 letters.

Have we added any new information to the English language since it was created? Of course! We've added hundreds of thousands of new words to the language.

Likewise, you can add a nearly infinite amount of new information using DNA through addition, duplication, rearranging, etc.

We've observed new "information" being added to genomes all the time. If by "information" you mean new genes... I'm assuming that's what you mean.

One good example is these little guys:

Nylon-eating bacteria - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[jilfe]

Hello,

The only way to understand the post I wrote, is to sincerely, ask God to show you through his Holy Spirit, what was written.

And He will make it clear,
otherwise for me to try to explain about it, would be only in my human understanding, which would be of worldly interpretation, which would only add to whatever you have a confusion about.

God can explain it better to you than I can, thats for sure.

That's why God gave us His Holy Spirit.
　

 

[KhaosTheory]

Hello,

The only way to understand the post I wrote, is to sincerely, ask God to show you through his Holy Spirit, what was written.

And He will make it clear,
otherwise for me to try to explain about it, would be only in my human understanding, which would be of worldly interpretation, which would only add to whatever you have a confusion about.

God can explain it better to you than I can, thats for sure.

That's why God gave us His Holy Spirit.
　

God reveals a lot to me but He also gave me a brain to figure things out for myself.

So do you want to try to use yours and explain to me what you mean by "information" or do you want to just continue with this cop-out?

 

[jilfe]

Hello

Look at the workings of any mechanical device, and ask God to reveal to you the term "information"

See this thread is not for human understanding, but for us as His people to seek out Him in controversal matters.

That's why the title of this thread, to often as christians we debate creation against evolution on physical terms only, thats all the evolutionists have to work with, (the physics of things) and we get trapped for staying on there level
but we have the Spiritual realm to use in our discussions, and we seem to always want to try to prove God as the creator on worldly terms only.

This thread is an oppurtunity to seek out God concerning this topic on His realm (Spiritual),
to the point where you recieve that revelation knowledge of His truth that delivers us from worldly deceptrions.

God Bless.

 

[KhaosTheory]

Hello
Look at the workings of any mechanical device, and ask God to reveal to you the term "information"

You are still being too vague for me to understand what you are trying to say.

Do you mean that adding new "information" is the same as adding new genes to a sequence?

See this thread is not for human understanding, but for us as His people to seek out Him in controversal matters.

Ok, maybe I misunderstood. I thought this was a thread on how to win a debate against an evolutionist.

I was assuming there would be evidence in favor of ex-nihilio creationism in here or at least a critique of the current theory of natural selection.

However, I haven't seen any of that yet.

That's why the title of this thread, to often as christians we debate creation against evolution on physical terms only, thats all the evolutionists have to work with, (the physics of things) and we get trapped for staying on there level
but we have the Spiritual realm to use in our discussions, and we seem to always want to try to prove God as the creator on worldly terms only.

Creation and evolution deal exclusively with the origin of physical life so why would we add any other terms other than physical ones to the discussion?

Also, all physical laws were placed by God so there's no reason, and indeed no permission, to talk about the spiritual world when we are discussing natural phenomena.

This thread is an oppurtunity to seek out God concerning this topic on His realm (Spiritual),
to the point where you recieve that revelation knowledge of His truth that delivers us from worldly deceptions.

I have received revelation knowledge concerning this subject. I attended a private Christian school for most of my childhood where we were taught that science was bad.

They tried to keep us away from knowledge and worldly influence as much as they could but when I was finally able to use the internet I realized how much they were lying to me.

This caused me to question my faith a lot because I started to wonder what else they could be lying to me about.

I finally realized that the worldly deception wasn't science, but it was my ignorance of it.

Satan is very cunning. He uses creationism as a mask making it seem like a perfectly biblical theology but I figured out the dark side of it after I left high school.

Think about it. What is causing most young people to lose their faith and leave the church?

When these kids grow up and go to college, they learn about science and evidence and the facts about God's creation. Then they realize that the creationism nonsense they learned in school was all lies.

This causes many people to turn away from Christ completely because they can't accept the truth of Jesus when it's mixed up in all the deceptive teachings of creationism.

I was taught that the earth was only 6000 years old, that there was evidence of a global flood, that natural selection doesn't work, and they even forced us to watch Kent Hovind videos in chemistry class!

When a kid grows up and finally realizes that everything he was taught was nonsense he is much more likely to question his faith.

This just shows how deceptive the enemy is...

On the other hand, when I finally learned about the wonders of God's creation through science, it strengthened my faith more than ever!

When I learned how the stars, planets, and galaxies formed over billions of years I was revealed the eternal nature of God.

When I learned how non-living chemicals could replicate themselves into living, breathing creatures I was revealed the artistic hand of God.

When I learned how life can evolve to changing environments over millions of generations I was revealed the love God has for his creations.

When I learned the universal constants of the universe and the fine tuning of the 4 fundamental forces I was revealed the unchanging nature of God.

To deny the facts of God's creation whether it be the formation of the stars and planets 14 billion years ago, or the evolution of life of this planet, is to miss out on the most amazing evidence of a creator there is.

You see, I don't have doubts or confusion anymore! Unlike creationists, I don't have to wrestle with beliefs that are contrary to every shred of proof.

My beliefs match perfectly with the reality of God's creation and with His Word.

Why continue to live a life of confusion and doubt? You are just giving the enemy a chance to come in.

Start reading some science books and watch videos on youtube about evoltuon. Hopefully God will reveal the truth of His creation to you so you'll finally be able to say that your beliefs don't contradict anything in science or nature.

You can start here if you want:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9V_2r2n4b5c

 

[KhaosTheory]

Look what creationism did to this guy:

Why I am no longer a Christian. - YouTube

He turned his back on Christ solely because of the lies that were told to him when he was younger.

Would he still be following Christ if he had received an honest scientific education about God's creation? I think so.

 

[Smidlee]

What exactly is "information"?

You know DNA is just the chemical reactions of 4 basic "letters" or chemicals, right?

Similarly, the English language is made of 26 letters.

Have we added any new information to the English language since it was created? Of course! We've added hundreds of thousands of new words to the language.

Likewise, you can add a nearly infinite amount of new information using DNA through addition, duplication, rearranging, etc.

We've observed new "information" being added to genomes all the time. If by "information" you mean new genes... I'm assuming that's what you mean.

One good example is these little guys:

Nylon-eating bacteria - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Since bacteria can't drive to McDonald and order a cheeseburger it's very important for it to find a local food source. Bacteria does use a "trial and error" to mutation hotspots in it's DNA in order find a food source.
A "trail and error" computer program can find /create new information with brute force of a search engine. For example a PC GPU can be programmed to crack someone's password yet there are limits. As more variables and longer the password the longer it takes to "find" the password.
You can only get very limited information for "trial and error" even from a supercomputer.

 

[KhaosTheory]

You can only get very limited information for "trial and error" even from a supercomputer.

Then what's the limit? DNA can mutate and adapt into new features and organs. We've observed entirely new organs being formed from DNA mutation.

Lizards Undergo Rapid Evolution After Introduction To A New Home

So what's this limit you speak of?

 

[mathetes123]

God reveals a lot to me but He also gave me a brain to figure things out for myself.

So do you want to try to use yours and explain to me what you mean by "information" or do you want to just continue with this cop-out?

DNA is information. It could be compared to a computer code. What normally happens when you randomly add or delete code to a computer program? Answer: "fatal error"

 

[KhaosTheory]

DNA is information. It could be compared to a computer code. What normally happens when you randomly add or delete code to a computer program? Answer: "fatal error"

Actually, no. DNA can't be compared to computer code much at all. Unless you are taking about binary.

Despite the prevalent colloquialism of saying "DNA is the language of life", DNA is actually not a language.

Is DNA a language? [J Theor Biol. 1997] - PubMed - NCBI

For something to be a language, it has to have letters that when arranged in certain ways into words they are symbolically interpreted by the person as having meaning.

For example, we've agreed that when you put a C, an A, and a T together in order it means a furry household feline.

Nothing like this exists in DNA. There's nothing that tells DNA that AACGTTAC means a leg or an arm or a lung.

The interactions among the letters of DNA are simply the result of the chemical reactions between them.

There is no outside observer programming the meanings of certain strings of DNA into a database or something.

Now, if you want to compare DNA to binary then I guess we can do that. At the deepest level all computer code is a calculation of only 2 positions. On or off, 1 or 0.

However, that's where the similarities between DNA and computer code end because we as humans have determined what certain sequences of 1s and 0s mean to us. DNA doesn't require this. It functions without anyone there to interpret it's meaning.

DNA is not a language | The Rational Response Squad

So to answer your question: what normally happens when you randomly delete or add to the DNA code? Well, sometimes a fatal error occurs.

But most of time you just see the birth of an organism that is just a slightly modified version of whatever it's parents were.

Do you know that our own DNA gets added to and deleted from hundreds of time during our lifetime?

HowStuffWorks "DNA Mutation"

So are you denying that DNA can mutate or what?

 

[Smidlee]

Then what's the limit? DNA can mutate and adapt into new features and organs. We've observed entirely new organs being formed from DNA mutation.

Lizards Undergo Rapid Evolution After Introduction To A New Home

So what's this limit you speak of?

From you article "Tail clips taken for DNA analysis confirmed that the Pod Mrcaru lizards were genetically identical to the source population on Pod Kopiste."
This is another example of big differences are not due to genes. Another good example is the Mexican axolotl were move to a lake in Paris become the adult Amblystoma mexicannum. It was found that Paris lake had more iodine.

Scientist is just now learning about epigenome. The code within the DNA code. They are starting to believe your habits, what you eat, how much you exercise,etc. can effect the epigenome of you children and grandchildren. (Lamarckism)

 

[Smidlee]

However, that's where the similarities between DNA and computer code end because we as humans have determined what certain sequences of 1s and 0s mean to us. DNA doesn't require this. It functions without anyone there to interpret it's meaning.

This is false because a DVD doesn't actually have a movie record on it. All it has is "light" bumps which has to be translated into a image and sound. It requires hardware to interpret the code. It's called the genetic code because that's exactly what it is. There are more than one genetic code as well.

For example, we've agreed that when you put a C, an A, and a T together in order it means a furry household feline.

CAT only mean a feline in English. Unless someone knows English CAT is meaningless. The same with the genetic code. A Mycoplasma code wouldn't work with human cells because UGA means stop in human cells but an amino acid in Mycoplasma.
There is one big difference between the genetic code from a computer code; genetics has a code written within a code.

 

[KhaosTheory]

From you article "Tail clips taken for DNA analysis confirmed that the Pod Mrcaru lizards were genetically identical to the source population on Pod Kopiste."
This is another example of big differences are not due to genes. Another good example is the Mexican axolotl were move to a lake in Paris become the adult Amblystoma mexicannum. It was found that Paris lake has more iodine.
Notice these changes happen very rapidly as if it's a built-in feature.
Note that scientist is just now learning about epigenome. The code within the DNA code. They are starting to believe your habits, what you eat, how much you exercise,etc. can effect the epigenome of you children and grandchildren. (Lamarckism)

Did you miss this part:

"Examination of the lizard’s digestive tracts revealed something even more surprising. Eating more plants caused the development of new structures called cecal valves, designed to slow the passage of food by creating fermentation chambers in the gut, where microbes can break down the difficult to digest portion of plants. Cecal valves, which were found in hatchlings, juveniles and adults on Pod
Mrcaru, have never been reported for this species, including the source population on Pod Kopiste."

How could the structures be found in hatchlings if they weren't genetic?

 

[Smidlee]

Did you miss this part:

"Examination of the lizard’s digestive tracts revealed something even more surprising. Eating more plants caused the development of new structures called cecal valves, designed to slow the passage of food by creating fermentation chambers in the gut, where microbes can break down the difficult to digest portion of plants. Cecal valves, which were found in hatchlings, juveniles and adults on Pod
Mrcaru, have never been reported for this species, including the source population on Pod Kopiste."

How could the structures be found in hatchlings if they weren't genetic?

Epigenome. What you eat can have an affect of how your children genes are read and sliced up. It's the code written within the code to help a creature and it's offspring to adapt.

 

[KhaosTheory]

Epigenome. What you eat can have an affect of how your children genes are read and sliced up. It's the code written within the code to help a creature and it's offspring to adapt.

Ok I'll let you get away with this one since it not the best example of new genetic information...

I'll do some more searching for a better example of new organs or structures forming... I'm thinking the Australian handfish will be a good example...

But I just realized something... Why are we talking about epigenetics and specific details of DNA when creationism has yet to answer even the most basic questions.

How do you explain the perfect temporal stratification of fossils if evolution didn't occur?

That is to say, why aren't there any bunny rabbit bones in precambrian rock?

 

[Smidlee]

That is to say, why aren't there any bunny rabbit bones in precambrian rock?

Probably the same reason all those missing links lead to the Cambrian explosion are not there. Why does a lot of those layers that suppose to be millions of years old have very little sign of erosion between the layers?