timbo3,
Thank you again for coming back and sharing your ideas. They are well drawn out, yet we should each check out what it is that we believe in. The mix of us is honestly not going to be a solid consensus, if we are truly honest about our personal unbiased researching into what we find that we believe in, for the actual truth out there has a crust formed over it and must be chipped away by sweat and effort, with pure heart and independent efforts. Truth can turn into the point of view of a leader, if we aren't honest and independently verifying our own findings and developing our own headings to further understand and research things deeper. Unity of man's organizations (be they religious or other) seems to be paramount over the real representation of God's family, which is respectfulness towards the uniqueness of other believers. I am not impressed with organized religious unities, but am impressed with honesty, relying on faith & trust of Jesus' promises, personally researching the things of their hearts before their Father in Heaven. When it comes to unity of Christians, then let the Holy Spirit be in charge and the sincerity of souls to follow their Lord Jesus Christ, working out their own salvations. I love the idea of a real brick & mortar church of our Lord, yet the command of men speaking for God seems to fail to obey Jesus almost every single time, even within Jehovah Witnesses. The paramount thing that Christian organizations seem to do is to isolate, condemn and forget one of Jesus most treasured commands in the New Testament, "you will be known by your love for one another" An isolated & condemning organization finds excuse to go the way of all of them do, no matter how much more correct they claim that they are. They fail to know the Truth that Jesus directly commanded of them, for they show condemnation, discerning judgments, separation from other Christians and finally not even respecting the equality of all Christians to think for themselves. Unity seems almost evil when it comes to man, but with the Spirit, Christian unity is obedient to the very nature of Christ, allowing for the completeness of instructions to come directly to individuals in a unity of obeying and following Jesus with utmost respect and love for one another, especially all those who sincerely try to follow and obey Jesus. There is little or no tolerance within isolationism.
Annihilation judgments don't really work, nor of course do eternal tormenting ones and universal salvation seems like a fairy tale which also seems to exclude Jesus' one time sacrifice when the punishment period (eon) is over, for they would have paid their own due for justice. Annihilation judgment is not Heaven and especially not paradise, because such judgment under free will souls is always looming over them, forever. God won't convert souls into anything less than his own image, so freewill remains for as long as they exist. Under paradise rule (as matter of fact would also exist over all of God's creation, even in Heaven), the judgment of God is always able to condemn those who breach the commands of Christ at any point in the eons to come. This is where the lesser of the 3 types of judgments comes back into play. Universal salvation is again making heaven & paradise earth totally livable. Disobedient souls can have redemption possible, even after eons have passed. However is this possible by the one time sacrifice of Jesus? This is the mystery point in the universal idea. Does one stay real in the universal idea (free will, not mistake proof, yet can be forever within God's family (in heaven or paradise))? I have seen that universal answers the free will that would always exist, forever in the family of God's, no looming annihilations overhead and complete humility & obedience to all of Jesus' commands, especially his beloved one of being known by your love of one another. It seems to answer all, except for the fact that the Bible seems to say something else. Conspiracy theory here? We don't need a conspiracy theory to force into the Bible annihilation or tormenting eternity, all you need is one part Paganism and two parts canonizing man's written spiritual text into perfection and so that of being infallible and thus our guide. Not questioning all things is to be misguided when saying you seek the truth and will honestly attempt to find it, yet are standing on something out side of Jesus' commands. This is where my faith is, staying with Jesus' commands and standing with him alone. Working of a proofs theorem to develop truth from an accepted base to the ultimate specifics of God's will, will only work if you are God himself, knowing all things. At last that I know, nobody here is. The usual accepted base is the infallibility of the Bible. I have always believed in God and came to know his son Jesus. You might say, I believed in the truth and knew him to exist. Now, when you come to a different point, yet unnecessary to me, that man's spiritual text is like God himself, infallible and perfect, I suspect a real problem. Such a theorem rendering base is misaligned, for God inspired man, yet man isn't God. He is full of sincerity, yet plagued with his point of views, uniqueness in God's family and under his personally uniquely accepted faith environment, whom God will save. The part of the New Testament that is perfect is the trash of the world, of man, of Satan and even of organized religions, who all really don't care too much about: Jesus' commands, teachings and instructions. God, Jehovah, did preserve Jesus' commands (which is the main part of the Gospel).
Sorry for my long and complicated post here. I will try to summarize my few points. I don't follow the leader, but do listen to, believe in, trust, obey and follow the perfect of God, his lamb and my Lord. I believe that God has preserved what the world isn't interested in, Jesus' commands. This is the perfect part of the New Testament. The Torah, Old Testament, is nearly perfect, but the New Testament has problems, influenced by what I call the tares, yet like I have said, there is little interest in messing with Jesus' commands, they just aren't that appealing to flesh, Satan or the world. So, when you try to establish your faith on the choked up tare ridden parts of your so-called infallible New Testament, I say know that Jesus is our lamb of God and be sure to follow him alone. I say the Devil's conspiracy is very real here. The tares sown within the Gospel in God's earth, is choking all who don't build their faith upon Christ alone. Perfect faith is perfect obedience and following of Jesus alone. You know that the tares have caused such things as Trinity (which is even supported by the Comma by Desiderius Erasmus (New Testament isn't so infallible here is it?)). Unity is in obedience to Jesus, this is believed by Jehovah Witnesses as a real part of Christian unity. Yet JW do not have equality in their faith, for they tier down by their structure of their ruling body, not realizing the completeness of each believer's faith having the help and guidance of the Holy Spirit living within them, not lacking, but complete, for by the Holy Spirit and God's acceptance, he will save them.
My sister is a JW ever since she was 15 years old, (she is now 60 years old). She is a full pioneer (I believe is what she calls herself). Her husband is dead and she is faithful to wait for God concerning the possibility of being with him again in Paradise Earth, so she has devoted her life serving Jehovah and preach the truth, JW truth. I admire her. We talk a lot and especially about our faiths. We have learned to love each other and respect each other's faith. In a way, we see alike. Yet, I independently verified what I discovered, some of which angered her. I don't understand when a person stands up for the truth, yet you anger them when you discovered the truth about something that isn't what they believe. I have tried to just forget the anger or talking about these things that we differ in. The only way that I see our real personal honest faith with the Lord is that we know and have personally verified what we believe in. This might and does, it seems, separate us from others, yet the first part of truth is to be true to one's own self first. I will not be programmed into a truth mold by some steps and propositions. I will totally and independently decide what it is that I really and honestly believe in, for I have my faith, for I believe in Jesus and know to obey him alone. There isn't much else to say. Sorry for the very long post. Have a wonderful day my brother in the Lord our God Jehovah and his son Jesus Christ.
