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Will Jesus find Faith when he returns?
- Thread starter Stephen Kendall
- Start date
It is best that Christ would come soon and not late, but it God's decision on when that day is. Within our consciousness, whether we sleep or not, we will see our Lord that soon, however the time of a global event belongs to God alone, even Jesus waits upon his Father's decision. We say soon, and that is true for us, yet for the world, that time is alone known and given by Jehovah himself.
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Pondering timbo3 idea of would Christ find faith when he returns:
When Christ asked the question about would the son of man find faith on the earth when he returns, he was asking would we hold out and continue to pray to God for his judgment (Judgment Day itself?). Perhaps that awful day for the lost is to come from the desire of his children to have their justice. If so, would not their be many with faith, crying out for justice, and God would decide it is time, the number of the faithful is finished. He would then send forth his son back to the earth. However, if the altar of God would have reached the number of those of his in completeness, would there be any Christians still crying for justice on the earth? Would not the number be full and no voice is heard from the earth crying out anymore? I believe there would aways be a presence of believers on the earth.
Yet, could not Christ be saying instead, when he says would the son of man find faith on the earth when he returns, that Christian faith was so choked by the tares in God's garden that worldly influence had reduced their ability or desire to follow Jesus? So, would their be real faith? I worry that if man's achievements solve the world's problems that faith may suffer also. I really do believe that this will happen, but still the end may not come, but it will in the future.
When Christ asked the question about would the son of man find faith on the earth when he returns, he was asking would we hold out and continue to pray to God for his judgment (Judgment Day itself?). Perhaps that awful day for the lost is to come from the desire of his children to have their justice. If so, would not their be many with faith, crying out for justice, and God would decide it is time, the number of the faithful is finished. He would then send forth his son back to the earth. However, if the altar of God would have reached the number of those of his in completeness, would there be any Christians still crying for justice on the earth? Would not the number be full and no voice is heard from the earth crying out anymore? I believe there would aways be a presence of believers on the earth.
Yet, could not Christ be saying instead, when he says would the son of man find faith on the earth when he returns, that Christian faith was so choked by the tares in God's garden that worldly influence had reduced their ability or desire to follow Jesus? So, would their be real faith? I worry that if man's achievements solve the world's problems that faith may suffer also. I really do believe that this will happen, but still the end may not come, but it will in the future.
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timbo3
Newbie
Stephen Kendall,
Many read the Bible in a way so as fit their own religious ideology. That is why Christendom is composed of some 41,000 different denominations and sects. Jesus established that there is only one "truth", for truth cannot be at odds with itself.
In speaking to the Jews, Jesus said: "If you remain in my word, you are really my disciples, and you will know the truth (singular), and the truth will set you free.(John 8:31, 32) Hence, there is only one body of "truth" found in the Bible.
Most who call themselves "Christian", are not ' remaining in Jesus words', as for example, Jesus said: "Go, therefore, and make disciples of people of all the nations........teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you. "(Matt 28:19, 20)
How many that profess Christianity is actually doing the assigned work of going to people's home to "make disciples" ? Are you ? And Jesus established an organized arrangement as the "one faith" (Eph 4:5, 11) for this to be accomplished, first by appointing 12 apostles (Matt 10:11-13) and then after his death, overseers or "older men" were appointed to oversee individual congregations that were taught from a centralized body of men, directing them as "one", sending out qualified men to encourage and deal with those who "promotes a sect".(Titus 3:10; Acts 15:1-35)
The vast majority cannot accept that there is only one true religion, despite the original Christian congregation was called "the Way", singular not plural.(Acts 9:2; 19:9) Jehovah is an organized God (1 Cor 14:33), for when he had Noah build the ark, only those within the one ark were saved.(Gen 7:23; 1 Pet 3:20) Every other religious arrangement at that time died out with the global flood.
Later, Jehovah formed the Hebrews into a nation by means of a covenant (Ex 19:5, 6), giving them a body of laws, with the Ten Commandments as the basic foundation.(Ex 20:1-17) At that time, that was the one true religion, for Psalms 147 says: "He declares his word to Jacob, his regulations and judgments to Israel. He has not done so with any other nation; They know nothing about his judgments. Praise Jah !"(Ps 147:19, 20)
The Mosaic Law covenant was only "a guardian leading to Christ".(Gal 3:24) This religious arrangement was replaced by Christianity (see Heb 8:13), and of it there is only "one faith", not the multiplicity of so-called "Christianity" that has developed, especially since the 4th century C.E. with the formation of Catholicism.
What religion stands for Jehovah ? What religion is carefully following Psalms 148: "Let them praise the name of Jehovah, for his name alone is unreachably high. His majesty is above earth and heaven" ? (Ps 148:13) Are you ? Jehovah only works through one arrangement, the "one faith" that loyally stands for and makes known his name. All others will soon be discarded at the "great tribulation".(Matt 24:21)
Jehovah's Witnesses are doing all that is required in the Bible to gain Jehovah's favor (not just "the Lord's), for just as there is a genuine dollar bill and there is a counterfeit dollar bill, so likewise there is only true religion that is genuine while all others that profess Christianity are counterfeit.(see Matt 13:24-30, 36-43 regarding "weeds" or counterfeit Christians and the "wheat" or genuine Christians)
They are very careful to be "no part of the world". Are you ? Jesus told his eleven faithful apostles: "I (Jesus Christ) am the true vine, and my Father (Jehovah God) is the cultivator. He takes away every branch in me not bearing fruit, and he cleans every one bearing fruit, so that it may bear more fruit.....Remain in union with me, and I will remain in union with you. Just as the branch cannot bear fruit by itself unless it remains in the vine, neither can you unless you remain in union with me.....If anyone does not remain in union with me, he is thrown out like a branch and dries up. And men gather those branches and throw them into the fire, and they are burned."(John 15:1, 2, 4, 6)
And the apostle Paul wrote: "Now I urge you, brothers, through the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you should all speak in agreement and that there should be no divisions among you, but that you may be completely united in the same mind and in the same line of thought."(1 Cor 1:10)
Thus, there is only "one faith" (note singular, not plural as in "faiths") that is pleasing to Jehovah God, being "taught by Jehovah" (John 6:45; Isa 54:13), for no religion that fails to use and stand by his name, as was the nation of Israel (Isa 43:10), is not his people or "one faith".(see Jesus words that those who follow him are to "be one just as we (Jehovah and Jesus) are one", John 17:11)
Many read the Bible in a way so as fit their own religious ideology. That is why Christendom is composed of some 41,000 different denominations and sects. Jesus established that there is only one "truth", for truth cannot be at odds with itself.
In speaking to the Jews, Jesus said: "If you remain in my word, you are really my disciples, and you will know the truth (singular), and the truth will set you free.(John 8:31, 32) Hence, there is only one body of "truth" found in the Bible.
Most who call themselves "Christian", are not ' remaining in Jesus words', as for example, Jesus said: "Go, therefore, and make disciples of people of all the nations........teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you. "(Matt 28:19, 20)
How many that profess Christianity is actually doing the assigned work of going to people's home to "make disciples" ? Are you ? And Jesus established an organized arrangement as the "one faith" (Eph 4:5, 11) for this to be accomplished, first by appointing 12 apostles (Matt 10:11-13) and then after his death, overseers or "older men" were appointed to oversee individual congregations that were taught from a centralized body of men, directing them as "one", sending out qualified men to encourage and deal with those who "promotes a sect".(Titus 3:10; Acts 15:1-35)
The vast majority cannot accept that there is only one true religion, despite the original Christian congregation was called "the Way", singular not plural.(Acts 9:2; 19:9) Jehovah is an organized God (1 Cor 14:33), for when he had Noah build the ark, only those within the one ark were saved.(Gen 7:23; 1 Pet 3:20) Every other religious arrangement at that time died out with the global flood.
Later, Jehovah formed the Hebrews into a nation by means of a covenant (Ex 19:5, 6), giving them a body of laws, with the Ten Commandments as the basic foundation.(Ex 20:1-17) At that time, that was the one true religion, for Psalms 147 says: "He declares his word to Jacob, his regulations and judgments to Israel. He has not done so with any other nation; They know nothing about his judgments. Praise Jah !"(Ps 147:19, 20)
The Mosaic Law covenant was only "a guardian leading to Christ".(Gal 3:24) This religious arrangement was replaced by Christianity (see Heb 8:13), and of it there is only "one faith", not the multiplicity of so-called "Christianity" that has developed, especially since the 4th century C.E. with the formation of Catholicism.
What religion stands for Jehovah ? What religion is carefully following Psalms 148: "Let them praise the name of Jehovah, for his name alone is unreachably high. His majesty is above earth and heaven" ? (Ps 148:13) Are you ? Jehovah only works through one arrangement, the "one faith" that loyally stands for and makes known his name. All others will soon be discarded at the "great tribulation".(Matt 24:21)
Jehovah's Witnesses are doing all that is required in the Bible to gain Jehovah's favor (not just "the Lord's), for just as there is a genuine dollar bill and there is a counterfeit dollar bill, so likewise there is only true religion that is genuine while all others that profess Christianity are counterfeit.(see Matt 13:24-30, 36-43 regarding "weeds" or counterfeit Christians and the "wheat" or genuine Christians)
They are very careful to be "no part of the world". Are you ? Jesus told his eleven faithful apostles: "I (Jesus Christ) am the true vine, and my Father (Jehovah God) is the cultivator. He takes away every branch in me not bearing fruit, and he cleans every one bearing fruit, so that it may bear more fruit.....Remain in union with me, and I will remain in union with you. Just as the branch cannot bear fruit by itself unless it remains in the vine, neither can you unless you remain in union with me.....If anyone does not remain in union with me, he is thrown out like a branch and dries up. And men gather those branches and throw them into the fire, and they are burned."(John 15:1, 2, 4, 6)
And the apostle Paul wrote: "Now I urge you, brothers, through the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you should all speak in agreement and that there should be no divisions among you, but that you may be completely united in the same mind and in the same line of thought."(1 Cor 1:10)
Thus, there is only "one faith" (note singular, not plural as in "faiths") that is pleasing to Jehovah God, being "taught by Jehovah" (John 6:45; Isa 54:13), for no religion that fails to use and stand by his name, as was the nation of Israel (Isa 43:10), is not his people or "one faith".(see Jesus words that those who follow him are to "be one just as we (Jehovah and Jesus) are one", John 17:11)
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Dear timbo3,
Thank you again for your responding to my posts. No, I am not doing what JW are doing, preaching the word as you do. No, I am not perfectly trying to follow Jesus Christ. And perhaps no to the many other better ways of JWs. That seems to sum up your questions above. It is ok with me, though you are concerned with me being outside of your God given circle of pure faith and truth.
The stubbornness that you are probably noticing about me, is a real part of an individual unlike what you see in your brethren. I went to your Kingdom Halls and to one convention as a visitor. I got the jest of your worship and beliefs. You are a fine people and I am sure that Jehovah is appreciative of that. If you own what you claim of Jehovah by your works & faith of perfecting his new people on Earth, then I may never be a JW, and perhaps millions more imperfect faith holding ones will not as well.
You must have read my earlier long post. I am sorry if I came on difficult and opposing JWs. In the end, you will right, perhaps and I will be Godless, not my choosing, but by the way I am unfortunately created, if indeed you care as you are suppose to about others. If you find me difficult, I am sorry, but I speak honestly from my heart. If I offend you, I am sorry. I have been to your freedom parties (I won't explain), you truly seem uninhibited, very social, friendly and very well mannered.
I understand that you are proud to be the sheep of God and not the stubborn goats. In a sense, I am proud for you, your efforts are never to be in vain. Any time, you act out of genuine love and devotion to Jehovah, you will receive just as genuine a reward from Him.
The only thing that I have to show to God is this, my words, here online and being with others, be they gang members, construction workers, common laborers, person down the street, my neighbors everywhere and the least of the least. My words aren't like JWs and I am 99.9999999% sure that they never will be the same, but I do try to speak honestly, kindly and a lot of the time from inspiration about Jesus and our Father in Heaven.
When I encouraged you and all to seek the truth personally instead of having it handed down to you to study and accept, you may have been angered towards me. I apologize for speaking in this way, yet I will say the same for as long as I be. Truth is to be honestly researched and found; or it is owned by an organization? Please don't take offense. I think much like a scientist or critical thinker, not as a regular person, and have been this way ever since I can remember. Like you have said, truth is but one. An organization does not impress me, nor angels above, nor doers of good or of miracles, nor any soul in the universe outside of Jesus and Jehovah. For an organization to chose God is wonderful, but I am not going to be impressed, for I believe in Christ alone and do not relate to man's attempts to perfect his faith even in very well organized churches. You need not take offense of me, if you do then get to the back of the line, for the believers of the 41,000 denominations that have heard me before you have also been offended.
I would like to somehow come back to peace between us. I find that Christians are pretty much the same, only no matter how hard they try, they seem to be at each other's throat at times (well, your group seems to be together, as long as all of you remain as sheep, I guess that I need to investigate the full nature of sheep to understand why God used this term. (To me, being sheep is to follow only Jesus, not even to follow any of man's attempts of re-establishing the first church again.)).
You should be accepting me at least as your enemy and thus are required to love me, but in case you accept me as following a devil church or untrue religion outside of JW, you still have got to love me, the lost, as commanded by Jesus, or if by chance you see me, as I see you, then as your brethren you are required to be known by your love for me and I by mine of you. I see you and many as brethren with the evil one's tares to the left and right of us, choking us and distorting our faith, yet we bare fruit from the seed of the Gospel. To you, perhaps and to much of Christendom, I am wrong and perhaps following Satan. That is ok, I am only being honest and trying to understand what is going on. No, I should never be able to accomplish the wonderful commands of Jesus, but I am always open to share my hope with all, the least to the greatest, to evil lost souls to those beautiful ones who love God, whether they know his name or not, perhaps not even knowing Jesus either.
I seem to find my share of people not liking me, some not understanding me and some not liking me & also very much understanding me.
May Jehovah bless me to see correctly and always bless the JWs, and all who are his, even the ones who know it.
After our recourse here lately, I am favoring universal salvation even more. I don't believe that JW's annihilation judgment is correct. Justice would be missing, even at a forceful hand of the Almighty. I am sorry.
It really isn't that important that we know everything, for fault in trying to know and not listen to or obey Jesus can bring down the house of our faith. In the early church, I am sure that faith was much better in place, you must understand that the Bible was still loose and in the forming stages, they had Jesus alone and the best leadership available. The tares were planted with the early church and are still growing, so you must recognize the problem that has hurt the unity of one church. The seed of God is still growing and producing. Is the one true church without tares? Would that be true, if God said to the angels to not bother them, let them grow together until the harvest time? These are things to think about, before getting angry with me again. This is a place for fellowship and you know that is true, even being a Christian forum as it is called or meant to be. I don't blame you that you can not speak freely as would be in fellowship for I am not a JW, but this is where you need to be to open up and really listen to what we both are saying. It is hard for a JW to talk freely with other people following Christ imperfectly but listening and trying anyway.
Thank you again for your responding to my posts. No, I am not doing what JW are doing, preaching the word as you do. No, I am not perfectly trying to follow Jesus Christ. And perhaps no to the many other better ways of JWs. That seems to sum up your questions above. It is ok with me, though you are concerned with me being outside of your God given circle of pure faith and truth.
The stubbornness that you are probably noticing about me, is a real part of an individual unlike what you see in your brethren. I went to your Kingdom Halls and to one convention as a visitor. I got the jest of your worship and beliefs. You are a fine people and I am sure that Jehovah is appreciative of that. If you own what you claim of Jehovah by your works & faith of perfecting his new people on Earth, then I may never be a JW, and perhaps millions more imperfect faith holding ones will not as well.
You must have read my earlier long post. I am sorry if I came on difficult and opposing JWs. In the end, you will right, perhaps and I will be Godless, not my choosing, but by the way I am unfortunately created, if indeed you care as you are suppose to about others. If you find me difficult, I am sorry, but I speak honestly from my heart. If I offend you, I am sorry. I have been to your freedom parties (I won't explain), you truly seem uninhibited, very social, friendly and very well mannered.
I understand that you are proud to be the sheep of God and not the stubborn goats. In a sense, I am proud for you, your efforts are never to be in vain. Any time, you act out of genuine love and devotion to Jehovah, you will receive just as genuine a reward from Him.
The only thing that I have to show to God is this, my words, here online and being with others, be they gang members, construction workers, common laborers, person down the street, my neighbors everywhere and the least of the least. My words aren't like JWs and I am 99.9999999% sure that they never will be the same, but I do try to speak honestly, kindly and a lot of the time from inspiration about Jesus and our Father in Heaven.
When I encouraged you and all to seek the truth personally instead of having it handed down to you to study and accept, you may have been angered towards me. I apologize for speaking in this way, yet I will say the same for as long as I be. Truth is to be honestly researched and found; or it is owned by an organization? Please don't take offense. I think much like a scientist or critical thinker, not as a regular person, and have been this way ever since I can remember. Like you have said, truth is but one. An organization does not impress me, nor angels above, nor doers of good or of miracles, nor any soul in the universe outside of Jesus and Jehovah. For an organization to chose God is wonderful, but I am not going to be impressed, for I believe in Christ alone and do not relate to man's attempts to perfect his faith even in very well organized churches. You need not take offense of me, if you do then get to the back of the line, for the believers of the 41,000 denominations that have heard me before you have also been offended.
I would like to somehow come back to peace between us. I find that Christians are pretty much the same, only no matter how hard they try, they seem to be at each other's throat at times (well, your group seems to be together, as long as all of you remain as sheep, I guess that I need to investigate the full nature of sheep to understand why God used this term. (To me, being sheep is to follow only Jesus, not even to follow any of man's attempts of re-establishing the first church again.)).
You should be accepting me at least as your enemy and thus are required to love me, but in case you accept me as following a devil church or untrue religion outside of JW, you still have got to love me, the lost, as commanded by Jesus, or if by chance you see me, as I see you, then as your brethren you are required to be known by your love for me and I by mine of you. I see you and many as brethren with the evil one's tares to the left and right of us, choking us and distorting our faith, yet we bare fruit from the seed of the Gospel. To you, perhaps and to much of Christendom, I am wrong and perhaps following Satan. That is ok, I am only being honest and trying to understand what is going on. No, I should never be able to accomplish the wonderful commands of Jesus, but I am always open to share my hope with all, the least to the greatest, to evil lost souls to those beautiful ones who love God, whether they know his name or not, perhaps not even knowing Jesus either.
I seem to find my share of people not liking me, some not understanding me and some not liking me & also very much understanding me.
May Jehovah bless me to see correctly and always bless the JWs, and all who are his, even the ones who know it.
After our recourse here lately, I am favoring universal salvation even more. I don't believe that JW's annihilation judgment is correct. Justice would be missing, even at a forceful hand of the Almighty. I am sorry.
It really isn't that important that we know everything, for fault in trying to know and not listen to or obey Jesus can bring down the house of our faith. In the early church, I am sure that faith was much better in place, you must understand that the Bible was still loose and in the forming stages, they had Jesus alone and the best leadership available. The tares were planted with the early church and are still growing, so you must recognize the problem that has hurt the unity of one church. The seed of God is still growing and producing. Is the one true church without tares? Would that be true, if God said to the angels to not bother them, let them grow together until the harvest time? These are things to think about, before getting angry with me again. This is a place for fellowship and you know that is true, even being a Christian forum as it is called or meant to be. I don't blame you that you can not speak freely as would be in fellowship for I am not a JW, but this is where you need to be to open up and really listen to what we both are saying. It is hard for a JW to talk freely with other people following Christ imperfectly but listening and trying anyway.
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Norah63,
You should read my above long post, I know that is hard, yet it is important sometimes. Love you sister.
You should read my above long post, I know that is hard, yet it is important sometimes. Love you sister.
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Norah63
Newbie
Actually I did read it. A bit long yes but you are trying to build a bridge between you and timbo.
Religion holds appeal, because it rolls the many into one unit, that is a safety point because it takes the Jesus spotlight off the individule. The "we teach this, we believe this" . So others will know how well we have things worked out, not like the mess others have in their life.
Well I struggle to keep my faith strong during the storms of life. Jesus has never failed me of that I can report. So it is a fact that He will find faith when he returns. We may never please each other but our well worn battle scared faith still remains. Praise His name.
Religion holds appeal, because it rolls the many into one unit, that is a safety point because it takes the Jesus spotlight off the individule. The "we teach this, we believe this" . So others will know how well we have things worked out, not like the mess others have in their life.
Well I struggle to keep my faith strong during the storms of life. Jesus has never failed me of that I can report. So it is a fact that He will find faith when he returns. We may never please each other but our well worn battle scared faith still remains. Praise His name.
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Dear timbo3,
My last post to you, seems awkward and not kind.
If a group of believers is started with a way of being and having their faith together, where is it that I am critical and possibly hurting them, especially when they aren't immoral, yet the opposite, standing as right with God as they can?
I remember getting a warning many years ago from two Christians that had prayed for me about being very careful about what I say. I have reflected on what they said many times, even now, and remember what Jesus said about our words. Yet, I believe that I should be speaking some of what is on my heart about our faith and to have fellowship together.
My boldness of ideas and to speak them seems to stretch my faith, perhaps endangering it. We fear God as part of our love for him and believing his son Jesus, yet part of fear is just that, fear. How am I going to develop my faith being a critical thinker as I am, if I remain too fearful to explore it? I speak in hope that God will understand me and be forgiving when my words are perhaps hurting to others or too bold and accusing. It would seem better to just live a quiet life and not explore my faith. It is just that my faith is every Christian's faith, since there is but one true people following Jesus and we must be able to obey Jesus to be known by our love for one another.
I believe that it is better for Christians to come together to ponder the things of our faith and uplift each other. This is not to create another denomination, but to be one by following the Shepard Jesus alone. There is no church out there that I follow, but I have gone to many, seeking Christians, not organizations and sharing what inspirations given to me with these people. When hearts light up across a room of Christians, I feel satisfied and glad that I attended. I always try to get people to stay with Christ and follow his teachings and commands. I am considered a trouble maker in some churches. I am trying to bring believers together and have fellowship and to be known for their love for each other, and a wonderful result is peace.
I share with you, because being a JW, you have a rather full knowledge about the Bible and are very much trying to serve Jehovah by following his son Jesus. If what I have said about such things as the tares (being throughout our Christian history, to be even within the churches themselves) isn't right then you could explain this to me. All I ask for is for you to put your response into your own words and not melt back into the JW mold or preplanned scripts. If it is wrong for you to speak alone, then JW will never be of interest to most free willed, yet obedient souls, for I don't see Jehovah as confining us forever, never allowing us to speak to him what is on our hearts and minds. Isn't it God who gave us the Gospel, it is about our responsibility to realize all that Christ has given us to think about. How are you going to think about things and then not speak about what has been given? Unity is by the Holy Spirit and not by a forced tier governing structure. The governing with the Kingdom of God are those who serve and even wash the feet of others. They admonish, edify and love others with their sacrifice, humility and service to even the least of the least, even to their enemies.
My last post to you, seems awkward and not kind.
If a group of believers is started with a way of being and having their faith together, where is it that I am critical and possibly hurting them, especially when they aren't immoral, yet the opposite, standing as right with God as they can?
I remember getting a warning many years ago from two Christians that had prayed for me about being very careful about what I say. I have reflected on what they said many times, even now, and remember what Jesus said about our words. Yet, I believe that I should be speaking some of what is on my heart about our faith and to have fellowship together.
My boldness of ideas and to speak them seems to stretch my faith, perhaps endangering it. We fear God as part of our love for him and believing his son Jesus, yet part of fear is just that, fear. How am I going to develop my faith being a critical thinker as I am, if I remain too fearful to explore it? I speak in hope that God will understand me and be forgiving when my words are perhaps hurting to others or too bold and accusing. It would seem better to just live a quiet life and not explore my faith. It is just that my faith is every Christian's faith, since there is but one true people following Jesus and we must be able to obey Jesus to be known by our love for one another.
I believe that it is better for Christians to come together to ponder the things of our faith and uplift each other. This is not to create another denomination, but to be one by following the Shepard Jesus alone. There is no church out there that I follow, but I have gone to many, seeking Christians, not organizations and sharing what inspirations given to me with these people. When hearts light up across a room of Christians, I feel satisfied and glad that I attended. I always try to get people to stay with Christ and follow his teachings and commands. I am considered a trouble maker in some churches. I am trying to bring believers together and have fellowship and to be known for their love for each other, and a wonderful result is peace.
I share with you, because being a JW, you have a rather full knowledge about the Bible and are very much trying to serve Jehovah by following his son Jesus. If what I have said about such things as the tares (being throughout our Christian history, to be even within the churches themselves) isn't right then you could explain this to me. All I ask for is for you to put your response into your own words and not melt back into the JW mold or preplanned scripts. If it is wrong for you to speak alone, then JW will never be of interest to most free willed, yet obedient souls, for I don't see Jehovah as confining us forever, never allowing us to speak to him what is on our hearts and minds. Isn't it God who gave us the Gospel, it is about our responsibility to realize all that Christ has given us to think about. How are you going to think about things and then not speak about what has been given? Unity is by the Holy Spirit and not by a forced tier governing structure. The governing with the Kingdom of God are those who serve and even wash the feet of others. They admonish, edify and love others with their sacrifice, humility and service to even the least of the least, even to their enemies.
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Hello Norah63,
Thank you for your insights. We do much better together as a family and friends under Jesus' leadership. I too have been in the storms of life, especially the ones that I am responsible for. God has helped me through them, sometimes with wonderful people helping me along the way and caring. Even strangers go the extra mile for no apparent reason, except that they care for you in your time of need.
The many churches under the 41,000 denominations out there do have a purpose similar in nature, of being a family, sharing together, helping others, teaching about Jesus & our Father, caring for the needs of members, visitors and the community around them, working in mission fields, always sharing Christ, the Gospel and of ourselves to all, caring in time of disasters, having fellowship meetings & dinners, breakfast and times together, visiting each other (also in time of sickness), building up each other & kindly admonishing also when needed, yet tolerant to their differences and believing alike as best as they can. This last part "believing alike as best as they can" is the part that just isn't me, so I really haven't a real church and probably won't. My belief is so personal, serious and usually well researched that my puzzle piece just doesn't fit into any church, even when they are so many.
I really do try to have shorter posts. It is so easy to elaborate and define my thoughts over eternities of time and efforts that they just blow out to infinity and beyond. Thank goodness we can laugh and rest in the Lord and not in our own selves alone.
If we are wrapped up in a vine next to our faith, it is just our faith environment that we grow in. We still only believe in God and through our Lord Jesus though something is all around us, seemingly supporting us. What actually supports our faith is us, following, obeying, listening and meditating on Jesus Christ with prayers, songs and trust always. This is the way that we can approach our Father in Heaven.
I believe that many are seeking God and Christ within the churches and without. I love to have fellowship with them. If I am moved to speak to a perfect stranger, friends or my neighbor (good or bad one) something of God, I am pleased to participate. Speaking as careless as it can be, it is something that pleases me when it is coming from my faith and obedience to Jesus. On my one mission trip to Mexico, I did little during the trip, but I did care, worked as much as I could, joined in their activities, yet I truly seemed not that useful, but I & others were aware of Jehovah's presence there amongst us. I was always surprised at the presence of the Holy Spirit around us and in us. Prayers & tears were quite common. Good byes at the end were difficult and seemed continual. We cared for each other and had bonded like brothers and sisters in God's family. I had no idea that mission trips could be like this. If the opportunity comes again, I hope that somehow, I could go. I just didn't seem to do anything on the mission trip, I am puzzled, is it that God wants us to just be there and give it our best? I was a lousy witness and has too much sin in my life to share that much, yet for some reason I had an important place in the mission trip as shown by the Mexicans there. If I were popular, I would only want them to follow Jesus and use my popularity to have them obey and meditate on him alone, serving Jehovah and pleasing him.
(I use the proper noun of Jehovah to appease others reading this so that they know that I am talking about the Father of Jesus and ours. There is a misconception by some (ex. JWs) that when we say God that we aren't really referring to our one and only Father in Heaven, but instead using the common term god, very impersonal and perhaps cheap. I don't agree for as far as I am concerned, all truly believing and obeying Christians of Jesus, know that there is only one almighty God, period and show deep respect speaking this title that belongs to him alone. The terms that I like to use is Father, Daddy, God and what others believes is his real name(s) Jehovah and YHVH, YHWH, Yahweh, Yahveh. We are fortunate to be able to call him Father through following, believing and obeying Jesus, his son.)
Thank you for listening. There seems so much bubbling in me to talk about our faith in Jesus, but I am here to listen and share, not just to be the one speaking.
I do agree with you that Jesus will find faith (obeying & following him) when he returns, (yet if faith is vengeance and justice, then I hope that it is not in me). Perhaps faith is to be known to the point that miracles will continually occur, like at the start of Christianity. That faith is unique and very strong, yet that is God's decision for it is to be like that in the last days, I believe. What I am concern about and why I started this thread is that our faiths are from our faith environments which separates us from one another, making it hard to "be known by our love for one another". If we are born again, why are we born to be choked by our very much less than perfect tare choked environments? We will produce our seeds for we truly are his, though we seem to speak from our differences. We just need to know that we all really are his not belonging to anything else, for he is our Lord and King, he sufficiently gave us all that we need by sending us each the Holy Spirit and his Father is able and will save us each, even in our separate faith environments. Love for one another is the only thing that we truly need to be complete. Can we obey Jesus over the will of the tares surrounding us and seemingly supporting us?
Can people respond to these words without showing their offense to me? Perhaps it is better to pray before, during and in the end of posting.
We are meant to be a family of loving brothers and sisters in the Lord Jesus & our Father in heaven.
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Oh well, Norah63,
my post is long again. I really do try to speak effectively and as best as I can. I just go to infinity and beyond so quickly. Love you sister.
my post is long again. I really do try to speak effectively and as best as I can. I just go to infinity and beyond so quickly. Love you sister.
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I wanted to express thoughts and words to open up discussions on how we can be known by our love for one another, and not by our criticism towards others. I have slipped into criticism here. When we are provoked, it is our natural defense to attack & defend ourselves. But also, unprovoked, I believed that I attacked a lot of dearly held theologies and offending many. My justification was to defend the idea of one faith in Jesus alone, scrapping off the later added stuff (not actually written in the Bible, but like through a puzzle, being brought forth by smart Christians). There really isn't a right for me or authority to try and erase what others truly believe in (their faith).
I think that it is wrong for me to try and build one faith, when each of us holds to our own. I will try to not be too critical with others and their beliefs. I am not God or Christ and definitely do not know what is actually true or not. I have ideas and have expressed them, in some ways of doing this, I was wrong and apologize to others. I am 62 years old and believe deeply in God and do not need a different faith than the one that obeys Jesus and follows him.
My sins are too great to ever be in real leadership. Even though, they are dead and gone in a self that was lost, I shame from them, until I gladly meet Jesus. That Jesus accepts me, tells me how very tolerant he is. I am told at times that God can not accept souls like mine by having them put into some sort of glory by His ways. I agree that I should not have miracles or to be shown acceptance from God, yet God has shown forgiveness. I will never put Him down, on account of my unrighteousness and sins.
It will be wonderful when all of this is over. You know, the only glory that I would want from God is to be allowed to take whatever cross that is mine and carry it for Jesus.
I started this thread to open up dialogs and thoughts to help us all have the same faith in which Jesus would want of us. Surely, there must always be Christians around the world following Jesus and obeying that very treasure command of his to be known by our love for one another.
Like I have hinted or out right said before, true knowledge about God is acquired by obeying, following, believing and trusting Jesus Christ, his son; otherwise there is no knowledge. The knowledge that is sufficient is that which comes to change us and for us to be born again; repenting, obeying and be filled with love & peace through Jesus' gift of his Spirit to always stay with us, giving us salvation's completeness. It is here in the grey area of middle men telling us the things that we are to say and believe besides what God has made us with that can and does cause confusion, frustration, guilt, superstition and disunity. All that I am saying is to take what Jesus & God has given us in it sufficiency and rest with them in peace, always peace and love.
I believe it is that simple and was in the beginning before the tares grew up with us.
I think that it is wrong for me to try and build one faith, when each of us holds to our own. I will try to not be too critical with others and their beliefs. I am not God or Christ and definitely do not know what is actually true or not. I have ideas and have expressed them, in some ways of doing this, I was wrong and apologize to others. I am 62 years old and believe deeply in God and do not need a different faith than the one that obeys Jesus and follows him.
My sins are too great to ever be in real leadership. Even though, they are dead and gone in a self that was lost, I shame from them, until I gladly meet Jesus. That Jesus accepts me, tells me how very tolerant he is. I am told at times that God can not accept souls like mine by having them put into some sort of glory by His ways. I agree that I should not have miracles or to be shown acceptance from God, yet God has shown forgiveness. I will never put Him down, on account of my unrighteousness and sins.
It will be wonderful when all of this is over. You know, the only glory that I would want from God is to be allowed to take whatever cross that is mine and carry it for Jesus.
I started this thread to open up dialogs and thoughts to help us all have the same faith in which Jesus would want of us. Surely, there must always be Christians around the world following Jesus and obeying that very treasure command of his to be known by our love for one another.
Like I have hinted or out right said before, true knowledge about God is acquired by obeying, following, believing and trusting Jesus Christ, his son; otherwise there is no knowledge. The knowledge that is sufficient is that which comes to change us and for us to be born again; repenting, obeying and be filled with love & peace through Jesus' gift of his Spirit to always stay with us, giving us salvation's completeness. It is here in the grey area of middle men telling us the things that we are to say and believe besides what God has made us with that can and does cause confusion, frustration, guilt, superstition and disunity. All that I am saying is to take what Jesus & God has given us in it sufficiency and rest with them in peace, always peace and love.
I believe it is that simple and was in the beginning before the tares grew up with us.
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I had thought about quiting this thread, sort in a failure, because I had created problems and discord here; also that these ideas of mine seemed trouble makers to all churches of all kinds. I also remember what our Lord said, that he came not to bring peace, but :
Matthew 10:34 [ Not Peace, but a Sword ] “Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the world. No, I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.
Luke 12:51 Do you suppose that I came to bring peace to the world? No, not peace, but division.
From remembering his words, I understand that some of what we share to be one and one faith, may take a sword and can create division. It isn't what I want. I want everyone here, be they Trinity, eternal torment, JWs, annihilation or universal salvation believers to all come out of their hindrances into the pure light of God through obeying, following and trusting Jesus Christ alone; to create a circle of friends and believers, and to be known by their love for one another; to be Jesus' by their Faith.
Did you know that the early Catholic church tried their best to get rid of Jesus in their church members hearts by devising extremely cruel forms of punishment and torture? Did you know that the Protestants did like-wise try to remove Jesus from those who didn't follow the church? Did you know what these souls said as they died? "God please forgive them, for they know not what they do." It is through Jesus that we must reach God, not in the devices and ways of man, even when they try their best to canonize them. I don't tell others to be trouble makers, but please find your peace, ways and heart from Jesus alone, and you will do very well.
Matthew 10:34 [ Not Peace, but a Sword ] “Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the world. No, I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.
Luke 12:51 Do you suppose that I came to bring peace to the world? No, not peace, but division.
From remembering his words, I understand that some of what we share to be one and one faith, may take a sword and can create division. It isn't what I want. I want everyone here, be they Trinity, eternal torment, JWs, annihilation or universal salvation believers to all come out of their hindrances into the pure light of God through obeying, following and trusting Jesus Christ alone; to create a circle of friends and believers, and to be known by their love for one another; to be Jesus' by their Faith.
Did you know that the early Catholic church tried their best to get rid of Jesus in their church members hearts by devising extremely cruel forms of punishment and torture? Did you know that the Protestants did like-wise try to remove Jesus from those who didn't follow the church? Did you know what these souls said as they died? "God please forgive them, for they know not what they do." It is through Jesus that we must reach God, not in the devices and ways of man, even when they try their best to canonize them. I don't tell others to be trouble makers, but please find your peace, ways and heart from Jesus alone, and you will do very well.
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timbo3
Newbie
For a wall safe to be unlocked, there is a set of numbers that must be followed in an exact sequence in order to open it. No matter what a person does by changing the numbers and sequence will ever unlock the safe. Only by utilizing the exact arrangement of numbers and series of placing in the proper order will the wall safe be opened.
Likewise of God's laws and requirements. He has given commands, laws and principles that are to govern a true Christian's life. Any deviation of these is like trying to open a wall safe in "their own way". The churches of Christendom are notorious for this and thus have established some 41,000 different sects and denominations.
Here is what Jesus said: "Not everyone saying to me, Lord, Lord, will enter into the Kingdom of the heavens, but only the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will."(Matt 7:21) Saying what they "think" is right in God's eyes is where a person goes astray. Only by doing God's will anyone gain Jehovah's favor.
Jehovah's Witnesses obey Jesus command to "go and make disciples of people of all the nations", teaching people from "house to house" what Jesus said.(Matt 28:19, 20; Acts 20:20) They don't balk at this. They apply the direct command concerning stripping off the "old personality" and putting on the "new personality".(Col 3:9, 10)
They recognize the sacredness of blood, following the command at Acts 15:20 (that is based on Lev.17:10-12) to "abstain from blood". We do not make excuses nor try to "squirm" out of performing what Jehovah says but rather we are "doing the will of the Father", Jehovah God. As Creator, he has the right to set moral limits and establish commands for us.
At Proverbs 14, it says: "There is a way that seems right to a man, but in the end it leads to death."(Prov 14:12) Our Maker, Jehovah God has placed before all mankind "life and death, the blessing and the curse; and you must choose life so that you may live."(Deut 30:19) There is only one way that is the right way, all other "ways" are "dead wrong".
Hence, God has established a set arrangement or religious organization so that individuals can choose whether they want to live or die. Jesus explained it this way: "Exert yourselves vigorously to get in through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will seek to get in but will not be able."(Luke 13:24) The over 1 billion church members feel that they are pleasing to God, but Jesus said otherwise.
He continues, giving an illustration about a householder who has already locked the door to his home, but people on the outside keeps knocking on it in order to be let in. The householder (which pictures Jesus) says to those knocking: "I do not know where you are from" (Luke 13:25), showing that he does not recognize them as his genuine followers.
Jesus now says that the ones knocking begs him, saying: "We ate and drank in your presence, and you taught in our main streets."(Luke 13:26) But how does Jesus respond ? He says to those who professes to follow him but did not "exert themselves vigorously" and failed: "I do not know where you are from. Get away from me, all you workers of unrighteousness! (Luke 13:27)
Jesus identifies that to gain everlasting life a person has to go through a ' narrow gate' and a ' cramped road '. The "many" that make up Christendom are unwilling to ' exert themselves vigorously to get in through the narrow door ', so that they are rejected by Jesus. These are not my words but his. I happen to agree with and carefully follow them. Any dispute a person has with Jesus words, Jesus will take it up with them personally in the near future.(Matt 24:29, 30)
Likewise of God's laws and requirements. He has given commands, laws and principles that are to govern a true Christian's life. Any deviation of these is like trying to open a wall safe in "their own way". The churches of Christendom are notorious for this and thus have established some 41,000 different sects and denominations.
Here is what Jesus said: "Not everyone saying to me, Lord, Lord, will enter into the Kingdom of the heavens, but only the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will."(Matt 7:21) Saying what they "think" is right in God's eyes is where a person goes astray. Only by doing God's will anyone gain Jehovah's favor.
Jehovah's Witnesses obey Jesus command to "go and make disciples of people of all the nations", teaching people from "house to house" what Jesus said.(Matt 28:19, 20; Acts 20:20) They don't balk at this. They apply the direct command concerning stripping off the "old personality" and putting on the "new personality".(Col 3:9, 10)
They recognize the sacredness of blood, following the command at Acts 15:20 (that is based on Lev.17:10-12) to "abstain from blood". We do not make excuses nor try to "squirm" out of performing what Jehovah says but rather we are "doing the will of the Father", Jehovah God. As Creator, he has the right to set moral limits and establish commands for us.
At Proverbs 14, it says: "There is a way that seems right to a man, but in the end it leads to death."(Prov 14:12) Our Maker, Jehovah God has placed before all mankind "life and death, the blessing and the curse; and you must choose life so that you may live."(Deut 30:19) There is only one way that is the right way, all other "ways" are "dead wrong".
Hence, God has established a set arrangement or religious organization so that individuals can choose whether they want to live or die. Jesus explained it this way: "Exert yourselves vigorously to get in through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will seek to get in but will not be able."(Luke 13:24) The over 1 billion church members feel that they are pleasing to God, but Jesus said otherwise.
He continues, giving an illustration about a householder who has already locked the door to his home, but people on the outside keeps knocking on it in order to be let in. The householder (which pictures Jesus) says to those knocking: "I do not know where you are from" (Luke 13:25), showing that he does not recognize them as his genuine followers.
Jesus now says that the ones knocking begs him, saying: "We ate and drank in your presence, and you taught in our main streets."(Luke 13:26) But how does Jesus respond ? He says to those who professes to follow him but did not "exert themselves vigorously" and failed: "I do not know where you are from. Get away from me, all you workers of unrighteousness! (Luke 13:27)
Jesus identifies that to gain everlasting life a person has to go through a ' narrow gate' and a ' cramped road '. The "many" that make up Christendom are unwilling to ' exert themselves vigorously to get in through the narrow door ', so that they are rejected by Jesus. These are not my words but his. I happen to agree with and carefully follow them. Any dispute a person has with Jesus words, Jesus will take it up with them personally in the near future.(Matt 24:29, 30)
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Jesus is the way, the truth, the life, the door,the author of our Faith,the great high priest,the lamb(passover and atonement),kinsman redeemer,the rest(sabboth),love,the living word....so what is in the law.. that is not in him?
Should our question not be who has let Christ live through them...for the law and prophets testified of him...whoever has done this has followed the law.
Should our question not be who has let Christ live through them...for the law and prophets testified of him...whoever has done this has followed the law.
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timbo3,
You do a great job defending JWs. It is strange that I say, "keep it up", but I believe that how we have come to believe, we should continue to. This is contrary to your stern words, and I understand the basis of those words, yet it is also from your accepted better faith that JWs have in annihilation over any other Godly judgment method involving tormenting everlasting Hell. For you believe that only your understood way is acceptable and has been approved by your wise elders and known & checked by your Kingdom Hall body. I am all for those who are convinced of their accepted faith, how they sincerely believe. I tell my sister that she will not be disappointed when she meets Jesus.
Being annihilated is not the worse thing or even the horrendous eternal torturing Hell, but it is not seeing and understanding Jehovah God and having his promised peace by accepting his son, that is sad. I seem to have lost my fear in the search for courage and truth. I know that this is true. Sure I am afraid, but where there is honesty and search for God, there is no surrender and a willingness to accept his refuge and dwell in his peace.
For whatever reason in life, I have strived to conquer my fears in life and tried to put together a faith that I believe in. The cost of these two things can be my life, but why would I believe in something that is a lie to my soul? I can not lie to myself. How can I be productive, if someone ask me a question that I haven't searched for an answer? I have been searching for answers and do even now. I still speak of my hope and faith in Christ to others, sometimes by simple things of encouragement and other times much more involved.
I have to say that you are not ashamed or afraid to spend the time necessary to accomplish your work which you believe to be for Jehovah, good for you. Perhaps many Jehovah witnesses will not be disappointed when they see Jesus. However, your anger did come, hope you didn't let the sun set on it.
With everlasting tormenting Hell, masses are moved by fear; with annihilation, masses are moved to think; with universal salvation, masses are moved to love. I know that you and many don't agree, and perhaps think of this as heresy, even I could agree with you, but I am on a search for truth and haven't the easier roads as JWs or the many rather confusing roads of most of Christendom, believing for one, that the Bible is the fallible word of God and can derive faith from it, pretty much alone. I find instead that God preserved only the unwanted commands of Christ to be untouched and given to us along with the Torah, the Old Testament. Much of the New Testament can have unusual results by not translating the languages properly and by having had interactions with Pagan influences shortly after his chosen disciples finished their work on Earth. Even small translating errors can greatly alter the understanding of what the early faith was, the one that Jesus, I am sure, would know and recognize when he comes back. I am going to have to settle on a faith that I believe in soon, for my age isn't allowing for a prolong search, but I am hopeful and sure would make a better mission worker than before (on my one little mission trip). I can now, at least answer the questions that I couldn't before during my last mission trip. How am I going to answer the question about God's judgment until this hurtle is overcome? I really do believe the early faith had the direct words of Christ and knew what he said and believed such. We aren't so fortunate, but we do have the commands of Jesus. There is a lot more here than what we believe that we have.
Jesus said that if we believe in him and having not seen him, we are truly blessed. It would take nothing less than a miracle to see & believe in him without his true words, just having his commands. This is a disadvantage to us, because those who knew him and were handed down his treasured words at the beginning could see him for what he is. Can we? Many faiths are built upon infallibility of the New Testament & the Torah. It would take a great faith to see the NT as infallible, knowing by researching it, that it has some major issues.
Here I go again with my super long posts. See everyone tomorrow. Thank you for listening timbo3. I rather keep to my real name. I am not much for handles, nicknames or the like, so I remain as just Stephen Kendall.
You do a great job defending JWs. It is strange that I say, "keep it up", but I believe that how we have come to believe, we should continue to. This is contrary to your stern words, and I understand the basis of those words, yet it is also from your accepted better faith that JWs have in annihilation over any other Godly judgment method involving tormenting everlasting Hell. For you believe that only your understood way is acceptable and has been approved by your wise elders and known & checked by your Kingdom Hall body. I am all for those who are convinced of their accepted faith, how they sincerely believe. I tell my sister that she will not be disappointed when she meets Jesus.
Being annihilated is not the worse thing or even the horrendous eternal torturing Hell, but it is not seeing and understanding Jehovah God and having his promised peace by accepting his son, that is sad. I seem to have lost my fear in the search for courage and truth. I know that this is true. Sure I am afraid, but where there is honesty and search for God, there is no surrender and a willingness to accept his refuge and dwell in his peace.
For whatever reason in life, I have strived to conquer my fears in life and tried to put together a faith that I believe in. The cost of these two things can be my life, but why would I believe in something that is a lie to my soul? I can not lie to myself. How can I be productive, if someone ask me a question that I haven't searched for an answer? I have been searching for answers and do even now. I still speak of my hope and faith in Christ to others, sometimes by simple things of encouragement and other times much more involved.
I have to say that you are not ashamed or afraid to spend the time necessary to accomplish your work which you believe to be for Jehovah, good for you. Perhaps many Jehovah witnesses will not be disappointed when they see Jesus. However, your anger did come, hope you didn't let the sun set on it.
With everlasting tormenting Hell, masses are moved by fear; with annihilation, masses are moved to think; with universal salvation, masses are moved to love. I know that you and many don't agree, and perhaps think of this as heresy, even I could agree with you, but I am on a search for truth and haven't the easier roads as JWs or the many rather confusing roads of most of Christendom, believing for one, that the Bible is the fallible word of God and can derive faith from it, pretty much alone. I find instead that God preserved only the unwanted commands of Christ to be untouched and given to us along with the Torah, the Old Testament. Much of the New Testament can have unusual results by not translating the languages properly and by having had interactions with Pagan influences shortly after his chosen disciples finished their work on Earth. Even small translating errors can greatly alter the understanding of what the early faith was, the one that Jesus, I am sure, would know and recognize when he comes back. I am going to have to settle on a faith that I believe in soon, for my age isn't allowing for a prolong search, but I am hopeful and sure would make a better mission worker than before (on my one little mission trip). I can now, at least answer the questions that I couldn't before during my last mission trip. How am I going to answer the question about God's judgment until this hurtle is overcome? I really do believe the early faith had the direct words of Christ and knew what he said and believed such. We aren't so fortunate, but we do have the commands of Jesus. There is a lot more here than what we believe that we have.
Jesus said that if we believe in him and having not seen him, we are truly blessed. It would take nothing less than a miracle to see & believe in him without his true words, just having his commands. This is a disadvantage to us, because those who knew him and were handed down his treasured words at the beginning could see him for what he is. Can we? Many faiths are built upon infallibility of the New Testament & the Torah. It would take a great faith to see the NT as infallible, knowing by researching it, that it has some major issues.
Here I go again with my super long posts. See everyone tomorrow. Thank you for listening timbo3. I rather keep to my real name. I am not much for handles, nicknames or the like, so I remain as just Stephen Kendall.
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Much is given about Jesus, but he did command a lot for us to do. Would we be up to test him on not delivering? If we are his, and as he told us: "if we really love him, then we will keep his commands", and I am afraid that one of his most demanding commands is spreading the Gospel to everyone, everywhere. I have to admit that I don't do that, but I do speak, mostly from inspiration, and can't wait for the next time. I truly love wanting the words stirred in my soul supporting the Gospel to come to me and to share these with others, all people, everywhere. There is a lot of resistance to hearing God, yet if He moves you to speak to even gang members, it is wonderful to do so.
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One task that I have got to take up is educating my two little boys into what I wish to say is our faith (the words, commands, teachings and belief in Jesus Christ). Even one simple phrase can move hearts. My oldest son (8 years old) really does need the words of Jesus. I need to start having my own Bible study with him. I don't think that you get everything about our faith from the modern churches of today. I will try to do my best.
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yeshuaslavejeff
simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua
there actually was a jw that got saved. he was about 8 years old when he got saved.
he thought his whole family and the rest of the jw's were already saved. he didn't know
any better for about 8 more years.
and his family didn't either. -- when he was
about 16 years old, he discovered that they (his family and the other jw's) were not saved, and had never been,
and they discovered (his family and assembly discovered) that he was actually saved,
and they disowned him - kicked him out.
exactly as Jesus says it would be today.
people who are in any group can be saved by and in Him, even though their group is not.
and no matter what group they were in, they will get kicked out, just as Jesus says.
(if they stand up for the truth)
Jesus speaks plainly, always in line and in accordance with all Scripture. there is
absolutely no other way to the Father except in Jesus. Divine Jesus. Son of God and
the Son of man(Jews understand this).
Yhvh has made it so. There is no excuse for anyone, and no other Way.
this is called a christian forum, and all this should be absolutely clear to all who visit.
he thought his whole family and the rest of the jw's were already saved. he didn't know
any better for about 8 more years.
and his family didn't either. -- when he was
about 16 years old, he discovered that they (his family and the other jw's) were not saved, and had never been,
and they discovered (his family and assembly discovered) that he was actually saved,
and they disowned him - kicked him out.
exactly as Jesus says it would be today.
people who are in any group can be saved by and in Him, even though their group is not.
and no matter what group they were in, they will get kicked out, just as Jesus says.
(if they stand up for the truth)
Jesus speaks plainly, always in line and in accordance with all Scripture. there is
absolutely no other way to the Father except in Jesus. Divine Jesus. Son of God and
the Son of man(Jews understand this).
Yhvh has made it so. There is no excuse for anyone, and no other Way.
this is called a christian forum, and all this should be absolutely clear to all who visit.
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If what you say is true, then it is remarkable at all the ways that people mess up with the will of God. If they would just listen to Jesus, understand him and obey him, our faith could actually be one.
We really do need to be one, before Jesus returns.
We really do need to be one, before Jesus returns.
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