Will Jesus find Faith when he returns?

[Stephen Kendall]

We are still counted as being Christian and can post here, just as long as we don't post in the orthodox area! Well, I'm back and feeling like the Faith is evermore clearer in my heart and mind. Would anyone be willing to check it out some?

You can find all the potency of my message here that I wrote a few minutes ago in another forum (http://jesuschristians.com/forum/4-...iation-library-of-rodger-tutt?start=110#43700

Please be patient and read into this. I have put into bold print an invitation to all. I will be glad to explain more of what I am trying to convey, if you have both the patience to ask and have me to explain. I was rather shocked at what I realized has been already in my heart and mind with this concept (the Faith from Jesus Christ) and that I had remembered reading God's words throughout the Scriptures about this purpose and love of his for us. How could it all get so screwed up over the years (our salvation through Jesus)? If you are not interested and glued to the orthodox belief, then by no means stay here. Go back over to the TRUE CHRISTIAN AREA (ORTHODOX ONLY), but if you are patience and curious about the true nature of God, whom Christ said that only he knows, then you are on the right thread.

The title of this thread is universal salvation (noticed that universal was not capitalized?, it is just a word with a meaning and that is all). Please explore and talk to me about this. Here is one of the best places to start: absolute assurance in jesus christ In this page and pass Four Views of the Good News of Jesus Christ you may get the reaction that I did when reading the word of God (just below: IV. The Good News of Christ’s Total Victory) , WOW! I seem to always have known this Faith after all. The Peace moved in. Happy adventure.


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rodgertutt wrote:
I found this link very helpful.
UNIVERSAL SALVATION UNIVERSITY
richardwaynegarganta.com/universalsalvation.htm

I guess the best word in my mind to express how I feel about visiting this website is WOW! I think more people should check it out. I realize from all that I have read in the Bible that God indeed is saying one thing throughout it, salvation is for all and all will come to Him. That sure sounds sweeter than the bitter things that have crept into our Christian Faith (Christendom's general faith).

Why would anyone want to spoil the message that God gave us, that is especially from Jesus Christ, throughout the Bible? To win more souls and gain more political power by scaring them or was it just an honest mistake that took off gliding down the years into the mess that most all of organized Christianity is in?

Yet now I am wondering about our commitment to Jesus, if we believe in Universal salvation, is it still serious? What if we are about to be beheaded if we don't convert to Islam and worship Allah, would we have the strength to disowned this world and go to the next one with our Lord, or would we say, "oh well, we will be saved, surely God would not want us to suffer would he?" To me it would be to fulfill our faith and be with our Lord Jesus Christ, but to many there could be second guessing wanting to stay here longer. And of course, we being human, what about all that pain and suffering (if it were a slower torturous death)? Still I understand that the Truth isn't put aside for increasing numbers, sustaining numbers or any other gains, but it is the sweetness of being in the Faith, knowing our Father through Jesus Christ (truly universal salvation). Even Jesus had to drink that bitter cup. Surely, he understands us and through his Spirit would be with us at such a time. This is where our real humility comes in, being in the Faith. Now the passage of Christ about coming back to the Earth, "would he find Faith still on it?" Faith through understanding universal salvation is greatly lacking and missing. That is truly Faith in Christ & God, is it not?

By the way, if too many of you start moving over to this smaller un-orthodox area, I might be silenced or warned (again) (or maybe banned!).

 

[Stephen Kendall]

I have no denomination or title, but have found my Faith clearer and it was there always near my heart and echoing throughout the Scriptures. It has not a title, but a description, universal salvation. So simple, but it clears up a lot and takes a lot of effort to understand. I did the homework over the years and have always kept things in a special place in my heart. This evening, I had an awakening, maybe the first in my life. I had asked God so many questions over the course of life and this evening He seems to have allowed me to meet the right individuals and come to knowledge of Him which appears to have always been in me anyway. Now, I know my brethren and they are many. I am surprised about our weaknesses and stumblings. I will try to be here, is any would want to talk. I have nothing to do with Universalism, Universalists or Unitarianism, or any organization, just enlightened follower of Christ and will only let you see, what you already know inside. If anyone wants this most treasured part of their journey to their Father, I would be glad to share what I know. The leader is Jesus Christ and please check him out. I am just like you, a simple Christian that holds on to Jesus, and stands upon the Rock only. Have a most wonderful day in the Lord.

 

[Stephen Kendall]

The Faith that I speak of when Jesus comes back, is to know him and his Father (much of which has been shown through Scripture and Christ himself). The Orthodox Christianity doesn't have a clue, for they are bent upon following woeful traditions being misled and misguided through the present passing age. That Faith is known and even in those who believe in Jesus, being they Orthodox or not. I was puzzled for years as to why God allowed his churches to split and be even against each other, and of all things why the Bible? Why allow the Bible to be tampered with? Believe it or not, it is part of his divine will. I really don't know what good, I can do here, but at least I am in the right spot, as an unorthodox Christian, so I pose no danger to their theologies and baselessnesses of such grown-up tares within the word of God. We are all growing amongst God's good garden with tares to the left of us and to the right. Yet, we do still have the pure seed of God (the Gospel). I won't try to pull your tare up and damage you, but at least know that God is definitely in control and has very good reasons for having things the way that they are.

 

[timewerx]

To believe in universal salvation, you'll have to ignore quite a lot of the teachings of Jesus.

 

[Stephen Kendall]

Thank you for being polite. This is a lot to do with homework, for actually a lot of the teachings of Jesus have been screwed around with by the failure of maintaining the actual integrity of the Bibles throughout this Christian age. Yet in the sight of all of these tamperings, God has amazingly left the basic salvation message of Christ in place. His people (of Christ) can hear Jesus anyway and come to him. There is a problem that in time, some Christians are rather choked by the evil ones' tares planted and growing around them (especially within the Christian Faith). I am just suggesting to do your homework, if you feel a need to get unchoked and have a little freedom, you can. You belong to Christ and the tares choking the word of God do not change those of God into themselves, but a garden of weeds can cause us pain.

I am not one to act like an expert on this major issue of universal salvation, that is why I just gave the websites that can help a lot. I did a lot of research about our Christian History, Trinity, the cross and some others. I found quite a bit of written history that collaborates well with other sources to be reliable. From this research came personal recognitions of major issues in the Christian Faith, but not the actual Faith that we each have, just the junk (tares trying to choke our real Faith in Jesus). If an issue bothers you, for you to decide on whether it is something that you believe in or not, then do your homework and make a decision. I don't expect people to get the results that I did, there is a lot to uncovering to find the truth about things. God, I am sure, has planted his seed within those who converted there souls to him through Jesus, and yet the evil one with all of his power in the tares he planted all around you can only try to confuse and choke the word of life, but don't worry our Faith is secure, even within our ignorance.

I don't believe that Christians understand the evil one's influence around them (the tares choking them), I don't blame them, but reality should set in if you care to check out all the things that may bother you (like eternal hell & punishment and the list is much larger). Let's just put it this way when there are contradictions within the ideas of thought given by God, you may be reading the choking of the tares and not clearly what Jesus or his Father said. In-depth homework is necessary on your part to get around those tares, for the general organized Christian Faith has been hijacked and is in a state of confusion (considering the constant divisions of thought of 30,000 and more denominations, much of which are not even friends to each other, much less brethren and loving one another). All the walls come down, by knowing for yourself the real Gospel of God to us through his son Jesus. It would help to know what God & Christ really said in the New Testament, not the play on words (wrongly translated words).

 

[Der Alte]

The Faith that I speak of when Jesus comes back, is to know him and his Father (much of which has been shown through Scripture and Christ himself). The Orthodox Christianity doesn't have a clue, for they are bent upon following woeful traditions being misled and misguided through the present passing age. That Faith is known and even in those who believe in Jesus, being they Orthodox or not. I was puzzled for years as to why God allowed his churches to split and be even against each other, and of all things why the Bible? Why allow the Bible to be tampered with? Believe it or not, it is part of his divine will. I really don't know what good, I can do here, but at least I am in the right spot, as an unorthodox Christian, so I pose no danger to their theologies and baselessnesses of such grown-up tares within the word of God. We are all growing amongst God's good garden with tares to the left of us and to the right. Yet, we do still have the pure seed of God (the Gospel). I won't try to pull your tare up and damage you, but at least know that God is definitely in control and has very good reasons for having things the way that they are.

Accusatory assumptions with no, zero, none evidence. Since I understand you to be saying that you have superior knowledge of scripture perhaps you can help me out with this passage.

φάσκοντες εἶναι σοφοὶ ἐμωράνθησαν​

 

[rich1540]

Accusatory assumptions with no, zero, none evidence. Since I understand you to be saying that you have superior knowledge of scripture perhaps you can help me out with this passage.

φάσκοντες εἶναι σοφοὶ ἐμωράνθησαν​

Dude, there is no need to be a jerk. The OP is merely stating his beliefs and I at least find his perpective interesting.

Romans 1:22 Parallel Greek Texts

 

[Der Alte]

Dude, there is no need to be a jerk. The OP is merely stating his beliefs and I at least find his perpective interesting.

Romans 1:22 Parallel Greek Texts

Didn't ask for your knowledge of the Greek. Since Stephen Kendall seemed to be claiming superior knowledge of he scripture I asked him to demonstrate his knowledge of the original language. To back up his two accusations "The Orthodox Christianity doesn't have a clue, for they are bent upon following woeful traditions being misled and misguided through the present passing age. . . . Why allow the Bible to be tampered with? which I take exception to. I happen to be a member of Orthodox Christainity. I don't think that makes me a jerk.

 

[rich1540]

I

Didn't ask for your knowledge of the Greek. Since Stephen Kendall seemed to be claiming superior knowledge of he scripture I asked him to demonstrate his knowledge of the original language. To back up his two accusations "The Orthodox Christianity doesn't have a clue, for they are bent upon following woeful traditions being misled and misguided through the present passing age. . . . Why allow the Bible to be tampered with? which I take exception to. I happen to be a member of Orthodox Christainity. I don't think that makes me a jerk.

I know nothing about Greek. I googled the snide quote you posted.

Like it or not, the Bible is open to interpretation. I'd suggest your obsession with scholarly pedantry isn't helping your relationship with God.

Maybe Stephen could have phrased his opinion better about orthodox doctrine, but you aren't demonstrating yourself as an outstanding member of the camp that has claimed the righteous high ground with your aggression.

 

[James Is Back]

Universilsm goes against scripture. If God is going to reconcile every human on this planet past,present and future regardless of what we do or how much we sin than there wouldn't have been a point to come down as Jesus Christ,preach His teachings to others and go through all that pain and suffering He endured before and on the cross to sacrifice for our sins so we can reconcile with God through Jesus.

Yes Universalism sounds like a nice story with a nice happy ending but as man sinned against God that went out the door when Adam and Eve disobeyed God's command and ate the forbidden fruit that God told them not to eat.

 

[Stephen Kendall]

Accusatory assumptions with no, zero, none evidence. Since I understand you to be saying that you have superior knowledge of scripture perhaps you can help me out with this passage.

φάσκοντες εἶναι σοφοὶ ἐμωράνθησαν​

You don't really mean to intimidate me do you? You don't have to be hurting people who share their lives with you. Surely my personal sharing with others isn't meant to put myself up and over them. If I appeared to have done this, I apologize for it. I repeat, I am not sufficient to be an expert or to debate here, I am just trying to show that if we are choking from our personal sights into the Gospel of our unique Christian environments, it is best to do some homework and check these things out that bother us, even to do this exhaustively until we are certain of about what we have found and believe in. I did this with several topics and my conclusions after many months of research led me to other topics and new findings that I would not even have looked at, except that I had come this far.

I don't care to uproot or chop down anything. I just want people to be aware that they can research and check out all things. God complimented, I believe it was some Greeks in either Athens or Corinth, for checking out all things to see if they were so. If what you believe doesn't bother you and you are satisfied, then don't worry, you must not be choking on anything, but if you are bothered, then realize that there is more to the surface of things than the simple coat of man's paint.

 

[Anto9us]

I think it was Bereans who checked out everything

 

[Stephen Kendall]

Universilsm goes against scripture. If God is going to reconcile every human on this planet past,present and future regardless of what we do or how much we sin than there wouldn't have been a point to come down as Jesus Christ,preach His teachings to others and go through all that pain and suffering He endured before and on the cross to sacrifice for our sins so we can reconcile with God through Jesus.

Yes Universalism sounds like a nice story with a nice happy ending but as man sinned against God that went out the door when Adam and Eve disobeyed God's command and ate the forbidden fruit that God told them not to eat.

Maybe it would help you to know a little about my thoughts. I am not a believer in Universalism or an array of other things, this short and delightful website would be fun to read and understand what it is that I believe in: Oh My God! Is This Universalism?  Are you a Universalist?

which later through a link also involves a huge amount of Scripture, found in absolute assurance in jesus christ .

I seem to have an awakening over time into this area of thought about universal salvation. Rodger Tutt has been giving a complete summary of books in the subject that can be found in another forum http://jesuschristians.com/forum/4-...ciliation-library-of-rodger-tutt?limitstart=0

 

[Der Alte]

I

I know nothing about Greek. I googled the snide quote you posted.

Like it or not, the Bible is open to interpretation. I'd suggest your obsession with scholarly pedantry isn't helping your relationship with God.

Maybe Stephen could have phrased his opinion better about orthodox doctrine, but you aren't demonstrating yourself as an outstanding member of the camp that has claimed the righteous high ground with your aggression.

He did not interperet the Bible! He made broad brush accusations which happened to include me. See e.g. "The Orthodox Christianity doesn't have a clue, for they are bent upon following woeful traditions being misled and misguided through the present passing age. ...Why allow the Bible to be tampered with? ... so I pose no danger to their theologies and baselessnesses of such grown-up tares within the word of God." See all those derogatory terms? "Orthodox Christianity doesn't have a clue,""woeful traditions,""misled,""misguided,""the Bible to be tampered with,""baselessnesses of such grown-up tares." Defending one's self against false accusations is not aggression!

 

[Stephen Kendall]

Why is all this reading and homework important for anyone, it isn't unless (like I have said) you are choking in your area of the tares of the evil one planted in God's garden. If you are fine and sincere, then just don't worry about this thread. Did you ever think that the Gospel is for those who crave it and thirst for it, though it is for all, but not all are seeking God. So, it is with about knowing the tares around you, and how to find relief and comfort from having the real Gospel of Christ.

I get into moods and write rather poorly, I hope that this is not one of them. I don't mean to be rude to anyone. I try to be simple and thoughtful. I don't want to take over or seem better than anyone else. I just want sincere bothered Christians to find relief, not by joining another denomination or group, but by simply doing their homework on their own to know what it is that they really believe in, as God would have us, "to check out everything first, before believing it".

 

[Stephen Kendall]

He did not interperet the Bible! He made broad brush accusations which happened to include me. See e.g. "The Orthodox Christianity doesn't have a clue, for they are bent upon following woeful traditions being misled and misguided through the present passing age. ...Why allow the Bible to be tampered with? ... so I pose no danger to their theologies and baselessnesses of such grown-up tares within the word of God." See all those derogatory terms? "Orthodox Christianity doesn't have a clue,""woeful traditions,""misled,""misguided,""the Bible to be tampered with,""baselessnesses of such grown-up tares." Defending one's self against false accusations is not aggression!

I must have been in one of those moods. Sorry to offend you and others. I didn't come here to offend people. When you think back on Jesus talking to people, I don't think that he wanted to offend anyone, but quickly found that to try and help others was a dangerous occupation. I believe that Jesus became upset with the status-quo. I am not trying to upset people, but only trying to show how and why people should investigate their beliefs themselves, for sincerity to God and Christ they should.

 

[Der Alte]

You don't really mean to intimidate me do you? You don't have to be hurting people who share their lives with you. Surely my personal sharing with others isn't meant to put myself up and over them. If I appeared to have done this, I apologize for it. I repeat, I am not sufficient to be an expert or to debate here, I am just trying to show that if we are choking from our personal sights into the Gospel of our unique Christian environments, it is best to do some homework and check these things out that bother us, even to do this exhaustively until we are certain of about what we have found and believe in. I did this with several topics and my conclusions after many months of research led me to other topics and new findings that I would not even have looked at, except that I had come this far.

I don't care to uproot or chop down anything. I just want people to be aware that they can research and check out all things. God complimented, I believe it was some Greeks in either Athens or Corinth, for checking out all things to see if they were so. If what you believe doesn't bother you and you are satisfied, then don't worry, you must not be choking on anything, but if you are bothered, then realize that there is more to the surface of things than the simple coat of man's paint.

It was not "my personal sharing with others ""our personal sights into the Gospel," was not what I objected to it was your false accusations. "The Orthodox Christianity doesn't have a clue, for they are bent upon following woeful traditions being misled and misguided through the present passing age. ...Why allow the Bible to be tampered with? ... so I pose no danger to their theologies and baselessnesses of such grown-up tares within the word of God." You want to talk about studying? I became a Christian when LBJ was president and in addition to many other Biblical subjects, I studied both Biblical languages at the graduate level about 14 years later.

Where is your evidence that the Bible has been tampered with? Do you happen to know that our OT is virtually identical to the manuscripts found at Qumran/DSS dating to 100 BC? So when did this tampering allegedly occur? About 90% of the NT can be reconstructed from the citations in the ECF in the first 300 years of the Christian era. So when did the tampering allegedly occur?

 

[Der Alte]

I must have been in one of those moods. Sorry to offend you and others. I didn't come here to offend people. When you think back on Jesus talking to people, I don't think that he wanted to offend anyone, but quickly found that to try and help others was a dangerous occupation. I believe that Jesus became upset with the status-quo. I am not trying to upset people, but only trying to show how and why people should investigate their beliefs themselves, for sincerity to God and Christ they should.

Then perhaps you should confine your discussions to how you interpet scripture vs. how some specific person or group inteprets the same scripture and refrain from making insulting broad brush charaterizations of "Orthodox Christianity."

 

[Stephen Kendall]

It doesn't matter how you word it. When you bother status-quo, better hope their power is limited. I am not self-righteous and know my failings in life and have tried to be as Christ commanded us, to repent and sin no more.

I have found my manner of talking to be not so good. I need to pray and have done so, about this, as to not offend anyone. I can't accomplish much, if I am bothering and hurting others, that is why I came to this sanctioned area of the Christianforums.com to be able to follow their rules. However, the rulers here over the forums can close this thread or delete anything construed in their minds as against the rules or God. That and worst has happened to many children of God, especially to his first born Son Jesus.

In actuality, this may not be a sanctioned or safe area either, for if your discussions or wording offend others, especially the ruling or status-quo group, your thread and posts are in trouble. The police rule, period. I guarantee you that God really rules and did when the Pharisees hurt Jesus and others. You can see why it is hard to get the word out when the tares are choking especially the leaders of Christendom and especially even Orthodox Christian faith.

I bet you that my posts will be silenced, deleted, or closed, even here in the unpopulated Unorthodox area of Christianforums.com. The idea of tares is real and Jesus announced this a long time ago. The few of you lucky ones who get to read these posts should benefit with this brief freedom of speech period, before the deletions come. Have a most wonderful day in the Lord.

 

[James Is Back]

Stephen do you believe that all will be saved and reconciled with God even satan?