Wifely Submission

[Texas Lynn]

..unfortunately, today's society has said a man has no right to be the leader of the house. Why? Because the woman is the one giving birth to the kids and therefore she has more parental rights and more say than the man. Please tell me I'm wrong.

This is kind of silly. In a marriage both members have equal parental rights. In custody disputes, however...well, then the marriage is dissolved, so it's a moot point.

However, you guys don't want men in charge, you want men to succumb to the authority of women. Maybe that's why you have such a hard time with accepting Christianity.

Sexism is not equivaent to Christianity.

 

[Lanakila]

So Kat, do you believe a wife should stand behind her husband, or she stand by herself? The husband is supposed to be the spiritual leader of the household; unfortunately, today's society has said a man has no right to be the leader of the house. Why? Because the woman is the one giving birth to the kids and therefore she has more parental rights and more say than the man. Please tell me I'm wrong.

BTW, I'm the spiritual leader and boss of my house. My wife stands behind me, but I respect her enough to get her opinion on things. However, you guys don't want men in charge, you want men to succumb to the authority of women. Maybe that's why you have such a hard time with accepting Christianity.

You are the boss huh? So do you pay her as your employee?

 

[kopilo]

Does he spend as much time on managing her as on other employees? lol.

 

[Lanakila]

Does he spend as much time on managing her as on other employees? lol.

Well, if he has to manage her then she isn't being very submissive, now is she?

The thing that gets me about one of those type relationships is it makes the husband out to be the father not only to the children but to the wife. He treats her like one of the older children, demanding respect, and she is expected to act like one. This dichotomy of boss/parent over the wife destroys the relationship without them even realizing it. It's no wonder that Christians have a higher divorce rate than atheists.

 

[kopilo]

Well, if he has to manage her then she isn't being very submissive, now is she?

Actually it's possible for a manager to have a submissive worker who requires a lot of direction and control because they are depedant and can't work on their own.

I think you'll find the pyramid scheme of management used in many 'western' societies, where other schemes such as employees who act as managers depending on the day of the week are somewhat more harder to come by.

The thing that gets me about one of those type relationships is it makes the husband out to be the father not only to the children but to the wife. He treats her like one of the older children, demanding respect, and she is expected to act like one. This dichotomy of boss/parent over the wife destroys the relationship without them even realizing it. It's no wonder that Christians have a higher divorce rate than atheists.

I wouldn't say what you have stated depicts 'christian marrieges'.

 

[Lanakila]

Actually it's possible for a manager to have a submissive worker who requires a lot of direction and control because they are depedant and can't work on their own.

I think you'll find the pyramid scheme of management used in many 'western' societies, where other schemes such as employees who act as managers depending on the day of the week are somewhat more harder to come by.

I agree and those type of bosses are definetly easier to work for.

I wouldn't say what you have stated depicts 'christian marrieges'.

I hope I am alone in the depiction of my own personal experiences of a Christian marriage, but having been a pastorswife/chaplainswife that taught this to the women in my church and bible studies, I do not think so.

Having one of the two spouses in a marriage be in charge, with the power that comes with it is harmful to most marriages, and most people.

 

[kopilo]

I hope I am alone in the depiction of my own personal experiences of a Christian marriage, but having been a pastorswife/chaplainswife that taught this to the women in my church and bible studies, I do not think so.

Having one of the two spouses in a marriage be in charge, with the power that comes with it is harmful to most marriages, and most people.

Ahh opps I used a plural, anyway I hope you are alone in your depiction as well.. Although it wouldn't surprise me if people who call themselves Christians really do have marrieges like you stated.

 

[kopilo]

"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Jerusha_Girl again."

BTW your husband is very lucky, some females think that anything else then a diamond just won't cut it (pun intended).

 

[kopilo]

Well where I come from opal is everywhere, so I guess it is very cheap compared to other places. ($100 for a blue-ridge opal in a 9c setting).

I'm just happy having been able to hold and play with an Alexandrite once in my life. Although I wouldn't mind a green garnet, such depth and seriously underpriced.

*hands back thread*

 

[jgarden]

1 Corinthians 11:13-16

13 Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered?

14 Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?

15 But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering.

16 But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God.

I am unaware of any church that turns away men or women because of their hair length. Once you have make exceptions, it is hypocritical to "cherry pick" other verses from 1 Corinthians excluding positions of leadership over males.

I also consider this and other proclamations concerning woman as Paul's personal opinion. In effect it diqualifies at least 50% of potential Church' leaders. Strangely enough, relegating women to a secondary role does not appear in Jesus' ministry.

 

[Athene]

So Kat, do you believe a wife should stand behind her husband, or she stand by herself? The husband is supposed to be the spiritual leader of the household; unfortunately, today's society has said a man has no right to be the leader of the house. Why? Because the woman is the one giving birth to the kids and therefore she has more parental rights and more say than the man. Please tell me I'm wrong.

What do you mean by spiritual leader? Is it that you tell your wife what she ought to believe, when she should pray or read her bible, which church you attend and which services you go too? Or do you consider it your responsibility to support, nourish and build up your wife to enable her to be the woman God intends her to be.

BTW, I'm the spiritual leader and boss of my house. My wife stands behind me, but I respect her enough to get her opinion on things. However, you guys don't want men in charge, you want men to succumb to the authority of women. Maybe that's why you have such a hard time with accepting Christianity.

Ah, this bothers me on so many levels. Are you one of those guys who stops reading Ephesians 5 at verse 23 and ignores the bit about husbands loving their wives as Christ loves the church? What do you think it is to love your wife as Christ loves the church? well for a start it means being willing to die for her, and it means putting her first because to be willing to die for someone you consider their life to be more important then your own. But by stating that your wife stands behind you it's like your saying you consider yourself more important then your wife. . . .

What you should say is I love my wife as Christ loves the church and I put her before me, I honour her in every way and I would die for her as Christ did for me. But no instead, "I'm the boss, my wife stands behind me" ... a man should love his wife and build her up and be the source of life for her spiritual faith - and to do this he puts her first.

 

[christalee4]

What do you mean by spiritual leader? Is it that you tell your wife what she ought to believe, when she should pray or read her bible, which church you attend and which services you go too? Or do you consider it your responsibility to support, nourish and build up your wife to enable her to be the woman God intends her to be.


Ah, this bothers me on so many levels. Are you one of those guys who stops reading Ephesians 5 at verse 23 and ignores the bit about husbands loving their wives as Christ loves the church? What do you think it is to love your wife as Christ loves the church? well for a start it means being willing to die for her, and it means putting her first because to be willing to die for someone you consider their life to be more important then your own. But by stating that your wife stands behind you it's like your saying you consider yourself more important then your wife. . . .

What you should say is I love my wife as Christ loves the church and I put her before me, I honour her in every way and I would die for her as Christ did for me. But no instead, "I'm the boss, my wife stands behind me" ... a man should love his wife and build her up and be the source of life for her spiritual faith - and to do this he puts her first.

Sorry, Kal, I have to say that I agree with Athene.

By stating that you are "the boss", you are already establishing a hierarchy in which you had set a system in which you make all the decisions, and although your wife have some input, she clearly is subservient to your decisions. To say one is the boss, is to suggest that the other members are employees, or are subservient in some way.

From my experience, my husband and I have worked out a system in which we both listen to each other as equals, and make decisions based on teamwork that corresponds to our individual strengths and weaknesses. The dichotomy that "man always has the strength" and "woman always has the weakness" in terms of leadership is an old one, and should not be artificially followed. Individuals are individuals: some are strong, some are weak, some are assertive, some are laidback, some are knowledgeable in some areas, and some are not.

In my opinion, equality does not mean that women rule over men, even though some feel that that is what it means.

Equality means that both men and women contribute their talents, strengths and weaknesses equally, without set gender roles and restrictions.

 

[The_Horses_Boy]

In the Bible, it states that wives are to submit to their husbands in all matters. It does not specify that wives are only to submit to Christian husbands or to submit only when their husbands expect them to do something they are willing to do. I have read several websites that encourage total obedience, to the point where if a husband says God told him to tell her to jump off a bridge, she should do it without question.

This thread is aimed at Christians (even though anyone may participate). I was wondering, to what extent should a wife obey her husband if she is a Christian and trying to follow God's word and will in her life? If her husband commands that she do something sexual and she is uncomfortable with it, would she be going against the Scriptures if she did not comply? Or what about the husband being the head of household and making all of the decisions? If the husband decided to go out and spend the family's entire savings on a plasma screen television set because he has made the decision and has final authority, does the wife have no Biblical right to question him openly?

People generally quote this part of the Bible up in arms, but never bother to read what it says about the male. It says that the wife is to submit to her husband, but it also says that the husband is never to be harsh or cruel to his wife - he is to be kind and gentle with her. There has to be a head of the household, but if that head isn't on right then the house will never stand as it is supposed to.

 

[Yusuf Evans]

What do you mean by spiritual leader? Is it that you tell your wife what she ought to believe, when she should pray or read her bible, which church you attend and which services you go too? Or do you consider it your responsibility to support, nourish and build up your wife to enable her to be the woman God intends her to be.


Ah, this bothers me on so many levels. Are you one of those guys who stops reading Ephesians 5 at verse 23 and ignores the bit about husbands loving their wives as Christ loves the church? What do you think it is to love your wife as Christ loves the church? well for a start it means being willing to die for her, and it means putting her first because to be willing to die for someone you consider their life to be more important then your own. But by stating that your wife stands behind you it's like your saying you consider yourself more important then your wife. . . .

What you should say is I love my wife as Christ loves the church and I put her before me, I honour her in every way and I would die for her as Christ did for me. But no instead, "I'm the boss, my wife stands behind me" ... a man should love his wife and build her up and be the source of life for her spiritual faith - and to do this he puts her first.

Wow, you guys really are twisted.

Am I the spiritual leader of my household? Yes I am. Does this mean I force my wife to believe what I want her to? Nope, it does not. Same for any others who think that just because a man happens to be in charge of a household these days, does not mean the women is secondary or she isn't important.

No wonder you reject Christianity; you refuse to understand it.

 

[Lanakila]

Wow, you guys really are twisted.

Am I the spiritual leader of my household? Yes I am. Does this mean I force my wife to believe what I want her to? Nope, it does not. Same for any others who think that just because a man happens to be in charge of a household these days, does not mean the women is secondary or she isn't important.

No wonder you reject Christianity; you refuse to understand it.

Oh many of us understand it all too well. It just doesn't work practically, and isn't true.

 

[Texas Lynn]

Well, if he has to manage her then she isn't being very submissive, now is she?

The thing that gets me about one of those type relationships is it makes the husband out to be the father not only to the children but to the wife. He treats her like one of the older children, demanding respect, and she is expected to act like one. This dichotomy of boss/parent over the wife destroys the relationship without them even realizing it. It's no wonder that Christians have a higher divorce rate than atheists.

You must spread some reputation around before giving it to Lanakila again.

 

[Texas Lynn]

Having one of the two spouses in a marriage be in charge, with the power that comes with it is harmful to most marriages, and most people.

Indeed. It's an archaic model and dangerous to women and children. I would certainly not want my girl child to enter into such an arrangement.

 

[The_Horses_Boy]

Wow, you guys really are twisted.

Am I the spiritual leader of my household? Yes I am. Does this mean I force my wife to believe what I want her to? Nope, it does not. Same for any others who think that just because a man happens to be in charge of a household these days, does not mean the women is secondary or she isn't important.

No wonder you reject Christianity; you refuse to understand it.

You know I think that you should just give up. I don't beleive that this is so complex that a normal person could possibly have such a hard time understanding it, unless they're just trying to get on your nerves.

I don't see what's so complicated. The Bible says that the husband is the head of the household and, as so many people jump up and shout about, it says that the wife is to submit to the husband, but they just whine and snitch because if they really wanted to understand they'd read about what the Bible says about the husband, too.

 

[Texas Lynn]

Who can express any articulate disagreement with this quote at all? "Woman is the dominant sex. Men have to do all sorts of stuff to prove they are worthy of woman's attention." (Camille Paglia)

 

[The_Horses_Boy]

Having one of the two spouses in a marriage be in charge, with the power that comes with it is harmful to most marriages, and most people.

How so? I can hardly see how having a head of the household is harmful to a marriage, especially if we're talking about the Biblical case.

And I can see an obvious harm to marriages where there is no head of the household. Yes, a marriage is a partnership and not a dictatorship, but roles need to be recognized and good people don't abuse "powers" of marriage. Just because someone is the head of the household doesn't mean that they're going to beat their wife.