Wifely Submission

[Texas Lynn]

Christians who believe in God also beleive in His Holy Word.

Not according to the creeds, which are silent on that item.

 

[ChristianCenturion]

It is divine inspiration, not intervention unless you are claiming God told these folks exactly what to include and not include in the bible.

Hmm... Please identify the proof that supports the premise that God only works via dictation and other means of His will being done are not applicable.

Thank you.

 

[Texas Lynn]

Are you denying that the Bible is the Word of God? Yes or No?

I had a professor named Schneider in undergrad who used to ask socratic questions in that form. He was a funny guy.

If you are a fundamentalist we probably have different concepts of what "The Bible is the Word of God" means. Don't worry, it's okay.

 

[vitodabona]

Hmm... Please identify the proof that supports the premise that God only works via dictation and other means of His will being done are not applicable.

I was merely pointing out that the usual claim is that the bible is divinely inspired, which is fundamentally different then being an act of divine intervention.

 

[Argent]

Barefoot, pregnant and sitting in the back row in church!

 

[christalee4]

I put "other". In marriage or a committed relationship, to an extent both partners often put aside their immediate wishes or desires to help, serve, take care of, and love the other. Mutual submission, if you will. But the old adage that there must be a highly organized and set arrangment of hiercharcy, in which the husband "must" be the leader, or the commander, and gives his love and protection to the wife in return for respect and submission, a sort of protection payment, does not take into account individual talents and personalities who may be suited to either be in charge of certain chores or jobs, to truly make the marriage a happy and successful one. In other words, artificially forcing gender role models because "God said so" doesn't acknowledge our individual character traits or talents, presumably to be God-given, that help to make the marriage work happily.

 

[full_of_faith]

I don't believe in wives submitting to their husbands. I believe that marriage is an EQUAL partnership and no one is the "head of the household." Everyone is on equal ground and everyone has equal rights, duties and obligations.

 

[UberLutheran]

The bible was ultimately codified by the Catholic Church around the 4th century. This occurred though divine intervention, the bible is proported as the word of God. Any Christian has to believe that God had control over what was incorporated into the bible other wise it is not the word of God.

Oh, I believe the Bible is the Word of God in that it is the word about God, and the word about God's attempts to interact with us and to get us to interact with God (which I'm sure proved far more difficult than God ever imagined!).

I believe that parts of the Scriptures are God-breathed and God-inspired. I believe parts of the Scriptures are historically true (but a good deal are not, nor were they ever intended to be). I believe parts of Scriptures have instructive myths (Genesis, Jonah, etc.).

But for me to say that God had control over what was incorporated into the Bible is a very far stretch for me.

 

[Athene]

Outdated and overrated and completely and utterly wrong. The bible was written in a time where women were viewed as property not people in their own right. It's important to view the bible in it's correct historical and cultural context otherwise you run into all sorts of problems, a God who cares or has ever cared that we wear cloth of two fibres, a God who legislated and therefore authorised the practice of slavery? Wives submitting to husbands, slaves submitting to masters, relics of an ancient world, we wouldnt go back to the days of slavery, why do people want to turn the clock back on the emancipation of women?

Besides as my old mum always says, the proof of the pudding is in the eating, egalitarian marriages are happier and longer lasting then traditional marriages. Surely if the traditional way was God's way then these marriages which follow wife submission male headship would be blessed and happiest of all. So why isn't that happening?

 

[DivineRAiN]

Kat: Just a quick joke.

A newlywed couple are on their honeymoon. On the first night the husband removed his pants and tosses them to his wife and says, "okay, honey, put these on." She pulls them up under her skirt, lets them go and they are so large on her they fall to the floor. She says, "I can't wear these pants". He says, "darn right and you remember that whenever you want to question who wears the pants in the house." Angry, the wife grabs a pair of her pants from her suitcase, tosses them at her husband and giggles. "Okay, well, just for fun try mine on." The husband laughs and go to pull them on and they won't go up past his knees. He pulls them off and says, "babe, I can't get into these pants." She says, "darn right and you won't ever get into those pants if you ever say something like you said a minute ago ever again."

LMAO, I remember that 1... I still have it on video tape around here somewhere. The comic was funny when he was on his speel about being THE MAN, when I say jump you ask how high, you got me woman? And then when he was trying to get her panties on n they started to rip, he was getting irritated.. "I can't get into these".
"That's right, and with that attitude you'll never get in 'em."
I'm gonna have to find that tape

 

[sparklecat]

Simple enough question, IMO. If she wants to submit to him, she should, regardless of whether either of them is Christian.

 

[DivineRAiN]

Argent: Christians who believe in God also beleive in His Holy Word.

depends on the individual Christian

MezzaMorta: The bible is the word of God. Thus God must have had control over what was put in the bible

not really, but that is how I see it.
I remember reading things like.. the husband is the head of the household, the wife is supposed to submit to her husband.. along with something about Jesus stands between the husband and God, the husband stands between Jesus and the wife. I also remember that the wife isn't allowed to teach or councel her husband on spiritual matters... that what she learns is supposed to come from her husband (coz I guess because he stands between her n Christ).

As far as I can tell this is how men wanted it.. and so it was. The way I discern this is that this crap came from man, not God. Along with blood sacrifices (people sure were into their sacrifices n blood).
It's my belief that there are some spiritual beliefs.. also ones included in the bible.. that came from man instead of God.

 

[Argent]

I had a professor named Schneider in undergrad who used to ask socratic questions in that form. He was a funny guy.

If you are a fundamentalist we probably have different concepts of what "The Bible is the Word of God" means. Don't worry, it's okay.

I assume your answer is "No" then?

 

[Rae]

Consenting adults can set up any rules they like for their own marriages. If they want to agree that the husband will be submissive to the wife, the wife to the husband, the fish to the cat...hey, I don't care. It's their relationship.

 

[DiscardedTruths]

I had a discussion with a Christian once and he said it was perfectly ok to rape your wife.

 

[DiscardedTruths]

Consenting adults can set up any rules they like for their own marriages. If they want to agree that the husband will be submissive to the wife, the wife to the husband, the fish to the cat...hey, I don't care. It's their relationship.

I agree, if the wife or husband by some psychological deficit enjoys being submissive, then whatever, not my concern. I just have a MAJOR problem with forced submission.

 

[belladonic-haze]

I had a discussion with a Christian once and he said it was perfectly ok to rape your wife.

See that is what I meant to say. The world is filled with these type of misogynists! A real man doesn't need to submit his wife. He loves her, respects her and most of all trusts her!!!!!

 

[iusecrayons]

my answer is the third one....overrated.

In terms of the question here, the part that is left out is, "as unto the Lord", it doesn't not read, as unto man.

The end of that chapter says:
husbands love, wives respect. (not submit, not obey)
Submit, BTW means to be in order, to be in alignment.

Personally, I'm glad I don't have to answer to God for my family, just myself.

 

[sparklecat]

I agree, if the wife or husband by some psychological deficit enjoys being submissive, then whatever, not my concern. I just have a MAJOR problem with forced submission.

Calling it a psychological deficit is a bit harsh.

 

[belladonic-haze]

I agree, if the wife or husband by some psychological deficit enjoys being submissive, then whatever, not my concern. I just have a MAJOR problem with forced submission.

Uh, BDSM where both parthers agree is not a deficit, it is a way of sexual expression. Kinda of harsh to call it deficit. You will not recognize them in the street. They are just like you and me.....

Forced submission is hell. I am a survivor of such a relationship.....The problem is that submission is often pressured upon the woman through sex. Man wants to have it, woman has to give it...whether she likes it or not. He was a Christian and I ended up being raped and other wise sexually abused.

So, I tend to be very suspicious about the fact that Christian men think that the woman should submit because the bible says so. They forget the rest of the bible and the way Jesus treated all His followers. He washed the feet of them to show them that He is the teacher but He is equal to them and respects them....