Wifely Submission

[katautumn]

In the Bible, it states that wives are to submit to their husbands in all matters. It does not specify that wives are only to submit to Christian husbands or to submit only when their husbands expect them to do something they are willing to do. I have read several websites that encourage total obedience, to the point where if a husband says God told him to tell her to jump off a bridge, she should do it without question.

This thread is aimed at Christians (even though anyone may participate). I was wondering, to what extent should a wife obey her husband if she is a Christian and trying to follow God's word and will in her life? If her husband commands that she do something sexual and she is uncomfortable with it, would she be going against the Scriptures if she did not comply? Or what about the husband being the head of household and making all of the decisions? If the husband decided to go out and spend the family's entire savings on a plasma screen television set because he has made the decision and has final authority, does the wife have no Biblical right to question him openly?

 

[vitodabona]

Ah, you have to love these salvationist monotheistic religions and there total disenfranchisement of women.

 

[Texas Lynn]

Men who say "the man ought to be the boss in the family" generally aren't in their own.

 

[katautumn]

Men who say "the man ought to be the boss in the family" generally aren't in their own.

Excellent observation. I have noticed this myself. I find it troubling that there are people who advocate total obedience, regardless of what the husband asks. I find it upsetting that someone could say, "if your husband tells you to eat dog food, then do it because God will ultimately reward you for your obedience." Granted, I haven't heard anyone say that women should eat dog food, but I did read about the jumping off of a bridge. The woman said she would do it without question, pray for God's intervention and if her husband didn't tell her to not jump then she would know it was God's will for her to die right then.

 

[rowena]

I think some people have a very skewed veiw of obedience, and convenently forget the verse that talks about husbands loving their wives. If my future husband ever told me to do something I didn't agree with, or spent our life savings on a plasma tv, he'd definatly hear about it. I've always taken both the women should be obedient verse and the husbands love your wives verses together to mean that it should be a partnership, with no one person above the other.

Of course I also think Paul has a tendancy to be a goober and I take everything he says with a grain of salt and filter his writings through the words and actions of Christ.

 

[Tynan]

Ah, you have to love these salvationist monotheistic religions and there total disenfranchisement of women.

Shut up and put the washing on.

 

[FadingWhispers3]

Historically, wives have done quite well with the submission bit. What of the husbands? How many of them have had the guts to love their wives to the extent that Christ loved the Church?

If her husband commands that she do something sexual and she is uncomfortable with it, would she be going against the Scriptures if she did not comply?

No.

Or what about the husband being the head of household and making all of the decisions?

The head of the household is all about service and responsibility, none about rule. Jesus demonstrated this by washing his disciples' feet. Those who will be greatest in the kingdom of God are those who are the servant of all. Similarily in a marriage... head does not mean power and authority. Head means lifting others up.

If the husband decided to go out and spend the family's entire savings on a plasma screen television set because he has made the decision and has final authority, does the wife have no Biblical right to question him openly?

The wife has the right to smack him upside the head in such a case. After all, only fools scorn correction.

 

[SallyNow]

I voted "other", and let me explain why.

Well, for the most part, I don't like reading the New Testament as a bunch of unrelated passages. Why? Because most of it needs the context around it. Yes, are things like Luke 6:31 that stand alone, but those aren't as common as the passages that need context.

I think that, when read in context, the rule on so-called wifely submission was more about respecting and loving each other, and not falling into a trap of disrespect. Christianity presented many freedoms that were alien to the people of Biblical lands in the first century AD, and I think that all the passage on wifely submission is saying is, "still respect and love each other, even while exploring your new-found freedom".

So, although I voted "other", it was so that I could express my thoughts more thoroughly. The concept of wife-as-slave is archaic, harmful, and does not have a place in modern society.

Do to others as you would have them do to you.

 

[Lilly of the Valley]

In the Bible, it states that wives are to submit to their husbands in all matters. It does not specify that wives are only to submit to Christian husbands or to submit only when their husbands expect them to do something they are willing to do. I have read several websites that encourage total obedience, to the point where if a husband says God told him to tell her to jump off a bridge, she should do it without question.

This thread is aimed at Christians (even though anyone may participate). I was wondering, to what extent should a wife obey her husband if she is a Christian and trying to follow God's word and will in her life? If her husband commands that she do something sexual and she is uncomfortable with it, would she be going against the Scriptures if she did not comply? Or what about the husband being the head of household and making all of the decisions? If the husband decided to go out and spend the family's entire savings on a plasma screen television set because he has made the decision and has final authority, does the wife have no Biblical right to question him openly?

God is above the husband, so if he asks something that's against God (aka wrong and/or sin) then they don't have to do that. Basically the same thing that children have w/ parents (doing only what they say if inline w/ what God wants) is the same a wife does. If the husband loves her as Himself...which scripture tells them to do, that shouldn't be an issue.

 

[MezzaMorta]

Marriage is an equal partnership. No one should submit to anyone.

 

[belladonic-haze]

We are having a service in our church with Catholics and muslims. It's a service for peace. Yesterday we (the work group) had a meeting with an Imam. He said something very wise about this. No human should bow for another mortal being. Only before God you should bow (read submit). Men and women are 'created' equal. And therefor they should have equal rights and should never submit to their hubbies. This is just what human males made women do. Submission is NOT a prove for mutual respect. Asking a woman to submit to you is showing off power and not in a positive way. the strenght of a marriage is sharing two lives where both are equals!

 

[Lilly of the Valley]

Marriage is an equal partnership. No one should submit to anyone.

The problem is you veiw submission as that of a slave and that's not what God means by it. It is equal. The husband loves the wife as himself and the wife sumbits in a good way out of love, not like giving in to every whim he has. And by you saying we shouldn't you then say scripture and God is wrong then:

Eph 5:21 Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God.
Eph 5:22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
Eph 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
Eph 5:24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
Eph 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;


Marriage is basically an example illustration w/ how it is w/ God and the church.

 

[MezzaMorta]

Marriage is basically an example illustration w/ how it is w/ God and the church.

In Philemon Paul write a letter to the leaders of a church, two men and a women (Apphia). They are all equal leaders of the church.

women can be equal leaders in the church, they can be equal leaders in marriage.

 

[belladonic-haze]

The problem is you veiw submission as that of a slave and that's not what God means by it. It is equal. The husband loves the wife as himself and the wife sumbits in a good way out of love, not like giving in to every whim he has. And by you saying we shouldn't you then say scripture and God is wrong then:

Eph 5:21 Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God.
Eph 5:22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
Eph 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
Eph 5:24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
Eph 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;


Marriage is basically an example illustration w/ how it is w/ God and the church.

Sorry, Hon ...but hubs is not God...by far!!!!

 

[Lilly of the Valley]

In Philemon Paul write a letter to the leaders of a church, two men and a women (Apphia). They are all equal leaders of the church.

women can be equal leaders in the church, they can be equal leaders in marriage.

That's not how God set up marriage. Do you believe what scripture has said...because it's quite blatant about it.

Gen 3:16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

It has nothing to do w/ being better than, but that's how God set it up. That doesn't mean the woman has no leadership...but the man is the head of the household. I have no issue w/ that becasue I understand what God means by that.

 

[Lilly of the Valley]

Sorry, Hon ...but hubs is not God...by far!!!!

Did I say they were...perhaps you should reexamine my statements and scripture. Neither say they are God.

 

[TheMissus]

To quote my husband's great uncle:

Never trust a man who says he wears the pants in his family, because you never know what else he might be lying about.

I don't submit to my husband, and he'd be horrified and supremely bored if I did. He married me because of my fierce independence and strong opinions, not to have a little woman to cook and clean for him. (My husband does most of the housework and cooking, come to think of it.)

Not all husbands want their wives to submit. Some of them prefer women with backbones.

 

[MezzaMorta]

Gen 3:16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

If we are to follow the old testament word by word how come your not out committing the many acts it demands of it’s followers.

 

[AV1611VET]

If her husband commands...

Hi, Kat

We men like to use Genesis 18:19 on our wives:

For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the LORD, to do justice and judgment; that the LORD may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him.

And conveniently overlook:

For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the LORD, to do justice and judgment; that the LORD may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him.

There's nothing wrong with following a "commanding husband", as long as the commander is setting the example - (a godly example, that is).

 

[UberLutheran]

Oh, it's just not possible that Paul was writing to a specific audience at a specific time for a specific situation and never had any intention of making his comment an edict which had to be followed absolutely, throughout the remainder of time, is it?

By the way: Dinner's late. I'm waiting. I'm hungry. What's the hold-up?