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Christ obeys them perfectly through us, the imperfection is our own doing BUT we are made to stand because of GRACE, continued forgiveness of sin. This is for certain, if people refuse to obey God's law then they do not have the Spirit of Christ living in them and they can't understand how to obey God they are hostile to Him and to His law. Let Christ keep the law perfectly through our bodies and the imperfection that is our fault is forgiven, it is not remembered. But if we don't keep the law then we don't allow Christ to live in us. If this can't be understood then it's just not meant to be understood yet.
I'm afraid they reel off pat statements from their heads that have no bearing on the reality of their own lives, as many do of course, in churches and on the internetYup.
Your either as sinless as Christ or guilty. Hence why the law is the schoolmaster to Christ. It shows us that we are all guilty of measuring up to God's standard. And without Christ, we can never get there.
Obey or not obey. It seems as though this is the dividing question of many Christians today. For some, the keeping of the law was a burden we bore before Christ saved us but the fact is, we didn't keep the law then either! Why would God want people to obey His commandments in the first place if He was going to do away with them? What purpose do they have? If you knew the future that God has planned for those who love Him you might just understand it better.
When we are resurrected we are going to be like Christ is NOW. What is He like now? He is the all powerful, eternal Son of the Creator God. We are to be heirs WITH Him of all that God has given Him, rulers with Him on His throne. The power of being a child of God is boundless! God will not give this gift to anyone who would refuse to obey Him, think of the damage an eternal being with that kind of power could do! Look at what Satan did, and He's not even close to what we're going to be.
The Laws of God define what sin is, they are our instructors on what to do and what not to do. We must develop Godly character through obedience from our heart! Out of love for God, out of respect for Him. Christ makes our perfection possible by literally LIVING in us, using our bodies and minds to produce works of righteousness, growing in grace, which is undeserved forgiveness when we fall short. Before we had Christ living in us, any obedience we may have mustered was useless. After Christ is living in us all obedience is Christ's spirit doing it which makes it perfect.
If we despise the laws of God and refuse to keep His commands then the Spirit of Christ is not in us.
Romans 8:7-9 because the mind of the flesh is hostile to God: It does not submit to God’s Law, nor can it do so. Those controlled by the flesh cannot please God.
You, however, are controlled not by the flesh, but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ
You can say that submitting to God is not required all you want but God says those who are hostile to Him refuse to submit to His Law and they are NOT CHRIST'S. HE said if we have His Spirit we will submit, why? Because we understand the reason God wants us to, we understand the enormous responsibility we are going to be given and ONLY those who have learned to LOVE His laws and allowed them to be written on their hearts will be in the Kingdom of God. But know that it cannot be done without the Spirit of Christ living in us. That Spirit is given as a GIFT, it can never be earned. Once we have it we MUST use it. How do we use it? By obeying.
What do you think righteousness is? Do you think that faith alone is righteousness? Why does he say faith without works is DEAD? What does God say righteousness is? All thy commandments are righteousness Psalms 119:172. the righteousness from God is contained in His Son, why? Because He kept the commandments to their fullest extent. The faith is to believe that He is Who He said He is and that He literally lives in us and continues being righteous and leading us to obedience of which comes from Him too.You don't understand Pauls message, and he was chosen to be the chief exponent of the NC to the world.
For in the gospel a righteousness from God is revealed, a righteousness that is by faith from FIRST TO LAST
Rom1:17
I grew up with your above belief.
I then tried to attain heaven as Saul the pharisee tried to attain it and ended up in exactly the same mess he did( rom7:7-11)
Obey or not obey. It seems as though this is the dividing question of many Christians today. For some, the keeping of the law was a burden we bore before Christ saved us but the fact is, we didn't keep the law then either! Why would God want people to obey His commandments in the first place if He was going to do away with them? What purpose do they have? If you knew the future that God has planned for those who love Him you might just understand it better.
When we are resurrected we are going to be like Christ is NOW. What is He like now? He is the all powerful, eternal Son of the Creator God. We are to be heirs WITH Him of all that God has given Him, rulers with Him on His throne. The power of being a child of God is boundless! God will not give this gift to anyone who would refuse to obey Him, think of the damage an eternal being with that kind of power could do! Look at what Satan did, and He's not even close to what we're going to be.
The Laws of God define what sin is, they are our instructors on what to do and what not to do. We must develop Godly character through obedience from our heart! Out of love for God, out of respect for Him. Christ makes our perfection possible by literally LIVING in us, using our bodies and minds to produce works of righteousness, growing in grace, which is undeserved forgiveness when we fall short. Before we had Christ living in us, any obedience we may have mustered was useless. After Christ is living in us all obedience is Christ's spirit doing it which makes it perfect.
If we despise the laws of God and refuse to keep His commands then the Spirit of Christ is not in us.
Romans 8:7-9 because the mind of the flesh is hostile to God: It does not submit to God’s Law, nor can it do so. Those controlled by the flesh cannot please God.
You, however, are controlled not by the flesh, but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ
You can say that submitting to God is not required all you want but God says those who are hostile to Him refuse to submit to His Law and they are NOT CHRIST'S. HE said if we have His Spirit we will submit, why? Because we understand the reason God wants us to, we understand the enormous responsibility we are going to be given and ONLY those who have learned to LOVE His laws and allowed them to be written on their hearts will be in the Kingdom of God. But know that it cannot be done without the Spirit of Christ living in us. That Spirit is given as a GIFT, it can never be earned. Once we have it we MUST use it. How do we use it? By obeying.
Your righteousness is your justification before God, Paul relentlessly states you have no righteousness/ justification of observing the lawWhat do you think righteousness is? Do you think that faith alone is righteousness? Why does he say faith without works is DEAD? What does God say righteousness is? All thy commandments are righteousness Psalms 119:172. the righteousness from God is contained in His Son, why? Because He kept the commandments to their fullest extent. The faith is to believe that He is Who He said He is and that He literally lives in us and continues being righteous and leading us to obedience of which comes from Him too.
You ignore when I say that Christ is the one who is keeping the laws perfectly, not me. Why do you ignore that part? Why do you not see that I believe it is Christ in me and not myself who saves me?I'm afraid they reel off pat statements from their heads that have no bearing on the reality of their own lives, as many do of course, in churches and on the internet
Why are you quoting Psalms if you are debating Paul who was a New Covenant Christian?What do you think righteousness is? Do you think that faith alone is righteousness? Why does he say faith without works is DEAD? What does God say righteousness is? All thy commandments are righteousness Psalms 119:172. the righteousness from God is contained in His Son, why? Because He kept the commandments to their fullest extent. The faith is to believe that He is Who He said He is and that He literally lives in us and continues being righteous and leading us to obedience of which comes from Him too.
As someone else noted, you are not making much sense.You ignore when I say that Christ is the one who is keeping the laws perfectly, not me. Why do you ignore that part? Why do you not see that I believe it is Christ in me and not myself who saves me?
I was thinking the same thingWhy are you quoting Psalms if you are debating Paul who was a New Covenant Christian?
Of course if you quote the Old Covenant it is going to cover the law. Why not pull your New Testament text out of the package.
If you believed that Christ has already saved you, then you would know it is not Christ that is keeping anything perfectly. That is not Biblical.You ignore when I say that Christ is the one who is keeping the laws perfectly, not me. Why do you ignore that part? Why do you not see that I believe it is Christ in me and not myself who saves me?
God truly bless you! And thank you, it is a relief to be understood by someone! At least this I know, we will all agree in the Kingdom! I would rather be told that I did too much than to find out I did too little.Yes, Amein , at least in love and hope and joy of abiding in JESUS,
it looks like yes, this is perfectly seeking YHWH and HIS WAY, to live HIS WAY,
to DELIGHT IN HIM, as His Word Says always.
Yes, also, it is often awkward on this forum - all the different inputs , many not from God's Word, changing or twisting what God says to suit some other fancy or doctrine..... so it sometimes takes a little while to untangle even a simple message , if it gets misunderstood due to those other viewpoints published.
Oh wow! You don't even believe the Psalms?!I was thinking the same thing
I think you are getting a wee bit desperate.Oh wow! You don't even believe the Psalms?!
All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking,
correcting and training in righteousness.
Do you know which books of the Bible are and were written under the Old Covenant and which are and were written under the New Covenant?Oh wow! You don't even believe the Psalms?!
All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking,
correcting and training in righteousness.
I guess it's easier for you just to press the funny button with posts you disagree with, rather than responding to questions concerning what you postYes, Amein , at least in love and hope and joy of abiding in JESUS,
it looks like yes, this is perfectly seeking YHWH and HIS WAY, to live HIS WAY,
to DELIGHT IN HIM, as His Word Says always.
Yes, also, it is often awkward on this forum - all the different inputs , many not from God's Word, changing or twisting what God says to suit some other fancy or doctrine..... so it sometimes takes a little while to untangle even a simple message , if it gets misunderstood due to those other viewpoints published.
If you want to discuss Psalms:Oh wow! You don't even believe the Psalms?!
All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking,
correcting and training in righteousness.
No one knows the thoughts of God except by the Spirit if they have the Spirit living in them. And those who are hostile to God and refuse to keep the law do not have the Spirit of Christ in them. If a person refuses to keep the law, which can only be done by Christ living in them, then they will not understand the things of God because the Spirit or mind of God is not in them. No one can come to Christ unless the Father calls them, then they will have their minds opened and they will understand the truth. A person does not know they are deceived until they are no longer deceived.As someone else noted, you are not making much sense.
You say we are only justified apart from law at the point if conversion. You admit you sin/ fail to observe the law.
So exactly what do you mean, Christ keeps them perfectly for you?
Christ is not making you perfectly keep them is he, for you don't.
Why keep responding when the understanding is not there?I guess it's easier for you just to press the funny button with posts you disagree with, rather than responding to questions concerning what you post
As I said, you don't understand the message:No one knows the thoughts of God except by the Spirit if they have the Spirit living in them. And those who are hostile to God and refuse to keep the law do not have the Spirit of Christ in them. If a person refuses to keep the law, which can only be done by Christ living in them, then they will not understand the things of God because the Spirit or mind of God is not in them. No one can come to Christ unless the Father calls them, then they will have their minds opened and they will understand the truth. A person does not know they are deceived until they are no longer deceived.
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