Why Would We Need to Obey God's Laws?

[stuart lawrence]

This ^^^^^^^^^^^^ doesn't [necessarily/ appear to] line up
with what YHWH says in ROMANS about who is justified.

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Romans 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just ... - Bible Hub
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(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. Weymouth New Testament It is not those that merely hear the Law ...

Romans 2:13 KJV: (For not the hearers of the law are just before God ...
biblehub.com/kjv/romans/2-13.htm
For it isn't the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law will be justified. Young's Literal Translation for not the hearers of the law ...

Romans 2:13 KJV - (For not the hearers of the law are - Bible Gateway
Bible Gateway passage: Romans 2:13 - King James Version
For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

Are you seriously suggesting Paul preached righteousness/ justification by observing the law?

 

[danstribe]

I'm glad you agree for:

All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the book of the law. Clearly no one is justified before God by observing the law, for the righteous shall live by faith
Gal3:10&11

Why are you cursed if you rely on observing the law to be righteous?

For whoever keeps the whole law yet stumbles at JUST ONE POINT is guilty of breaking all of it
James 2:10

Only one pass mark to be righteous under the law, perfection. 100 percent perfect obedience, no slip ups.
Hence, you are cursed if you rely on observing the law to be righteous, for you cannot attain to the pass mark set

You said the magic word! Rely. Never rely on keeping the law for justification or to be righteous, rely instead on Christ and the righteousness that comes from Him living in us, He only keeps the law perfectly.

 

[stuart lawrence]

You said the magic word! Rely. Never rely on keeping the law for justification or to be righteous, rely instead on Christ and the righteousness that comes from Him living in us, He only keeps the law perfectly.

The only way humans can convince themselves they perfectly obey the law is to dumb it down from the pristine level at which it is set

 

[Thursday]

Are you seriously suggesting Paul preached righteousness/ justification by observing the law?

Not the law, obedience to Jesus.

A man reaps what he sows.

 

[stuart lawrence]

Not the law, obedience to Jesus.

A man reaps what he sows.

And what does that obedience entail to be justified?

 

[danstribe]

This ^^^^^^^^^^^^ doesn't [necessarily/ appear to] line up
with what YHWH says in ROMANS about who is justified.

About 651,000 results (1.05 seconds)
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Romans 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just ... - Bible Hub
biblehub.com/romans/2-13.htm
(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. Weymouth New Testament It is not those that merely hear the Law ...

Romans 2:13 KJV: (For not the hearers of the law are just before God ...
biblehub.com/kjv/romans/2-13.htm
For it isn't the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law will be justified. Young's Literal Translation for not the hearers of the law ...

Romans 2:13 KJV - (For not the hearers of the law are - Bible Gateway
Bible Gateway passage: Romans 2:13 - King James Version
For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

Yes, that is the whole point. But know that it is Christ living in us that gives us the ability to keep that law. And if we say we are not required to keep the law now that we have Christ in us we are not abiding in the truth. Christ MUST live in us, how does He live in us? By following the commandments of God which are the action of God's love in us. If we do not keep the commandments then we are guilty of stifling the Spirit of Christ in us. To live is to love, to love is to keep the commandments which are love toward God and love toward neighbor.
I know that you understand yeshuaslavejeff, I guess I'm at a loss for words trying to explain what it really means to love God and trying to unravel the idea that the keeping of the law is the only thing Christ does. It includes His entire existence and His sacrifice and if He lives in us then we will keep it also. Credit goes to Christ and then comes from Him.

 

[stuart lawrence]

Yes, that is the whole point. But know that it is Christ living in us that gives us the ability to keep that law. And if we say we are not required to keep the law now that we have Christ in us we are not abiding in the truth. Christ MUST live in us, how does He live in us? By following the commandments of God which are the action of God's love in us. If we do not keep the commandments then we are guilty of stifling the Spirit of Christ in us. To live is to love, to love is to keep the commandments which are love toward God and love toward neighbor.
I know that you understand yeshuaslavejeff, I guess I'm at a loss for words trying to explain what it really means to love God and trying to unravel the idea that the keeping of the law is the only thing Christ does. It includes His entire existence and His sacrifice and if He lives in us then we will keep it also. Credit goes to Christ and then comes from Him.

I thought you admitted you commit sin

 

[stuart lawrence]

The TC are an inflexible law. There is no pass mark of obedience to them that can justify you before God. Perfectly obey them or stand guilty before them.
There is nothing in those commandments about mercy or forgiveness

 

[danstribe]

This ^^^^^^^^^^^^ doesn't [necessarily/ appear to] line up
with what YHWH says in ROMANS about who is justified.

About 651,000 results (1.05 seconds)
Search Results
Romans 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just ... - Bible Hub
biblehub.com/romans/2-13.htm
(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. Weymouth New Testament It is not those that merely hear the Law ...

Romans 2:13 KJV: (For not the hearers of the law are just before God ...
biblehub.com/kjv/romans/2-13.htm
For it isn't the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law will be justified. Young's Literal Translation for not the hearers of the law ...

Romans 2:13 KJV - (For not the hearers of the law are - Bible Gateway
Bible Gateway passage: Romans 2:13 - King James Version
For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

Also the part about being justified apart from the law, I think that is referring to our being forgiven in our initial conversion. The bible says that we are being justified, it is an ongoing process and still no amount law keeping is able to do it but we are to still keep it! Even though keeping the law can't save us, not keeping it will surely kill us. This is why we need Christ, to save us and to use us to keep the law by His Spirit. We still have to keep the law!

 

[ToBeLoved]

The only way humans can convince themselves they perfectly obey the law is to dumb it down from the pristine level at which it is set

Amen.

I've heard sin divided into willful vs non willful sin. As if the Bible makes that designation. Nope, it doesn't. People build their theology around incorrect theology. It's like getting too close to a ledge. Once they fall off they have to figure it out on the way down

 

[ToBeLoved]

Also the part about being justified apart from the law, I think that is referring to our being forgiven in our initial conversion. The bible says that we are being justified, it is an ongoing process and still no amount law keeping is able to do it but we are to still keep it! Even though keeping the law can't save us, not keeping it will surely kill us. This is why we need Christ, to save us and to use us to keep the law by His Spirit. We still have to keep the law!

No. We have been justified.

What
Does the word mean. How do you define it?

 

[stuart lawrence]

Also the part about being justified apart from the law, I think that is referring to our being forgiven in our initial conversion

You don't understand Pauls message, and he was chosen to be the chief exponent of the NC to the world.
For in the gospel a righteousness from God is revealed, a righteousness that is by faith from FIRST TO LAST
Rom1:17

I grew up with your above belief.
I then tried to attain heaven as Saul the pharisee tried to attain it and ended up in exactly the same mess he did( rom7:7-11)

 

[Thursday]

And what does that obedience entail to be justified?

John 15:10
When you obey my commandments, you remain in my love, just as I obey my Father's commandments and remain in his love.

James 2:24
You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.

Gal 6
7Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life. 9Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up

 

[danstribe]

The TC are an inflexible law. There is no pass mark of obedience to them that can justify you before God. Perfectly obey them or stand guilty before them.
There is nothing in those commandments about mercy or forgiveness

Christ obeys them perfectly through us, the imperfection is our own doing BUT we are made to stand because of GRACE, continued forgiveness of sin. This is for certain, if people refuse to obey God's law then they do not have the Spirit of Christ living in them and they can't understand how to obey God they are hostile to Him and to His law. Let Christ keep the law perfectly through our bodies and the imperfection that is our fault is forgiven, it is not remembered. But if we don't keep the law then we don't allow Christ to live in us. If this can't be understood then it's just not meant to be understood yet.

 

[stuart lawrence]

John 15:10
When you obey my commandments, you remain in my love, just as I obey my Father's commandments and remain in his love.

James 2:24
You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.

Now I'm sure you are going to answer honestly aren't you.
Do you even try to obey each and every literal command of Christ.
If you don't, how can you be justified according to what you quoted?

Think you need to get a proper understanding of james2:24.
How many scriptures do you want that state no one is justified/righteous by observing the law?

David speaks of the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the man to whom God credits righteousness/ justification apart from works
Rom 4:6

 

[stuart lawrence]

Christ obeys them perfectly through us, the imperfection is our own doing BUT we are made to stand because of GRACE, continued forgiveness of sin. This is for certain, if people refuse to obey God's law then they do not have the Spirit of Christ living in them and they can't understand how to obey God they are hostile to Him and to His law. Let Christ keep the law perfectly through our bodies and the imperfection that is our fault is forgiven, it is not remembered. But if we don't keep the law then we don't allow Christ to live in us. If this can't be understood then it's just not meant to be understood yet.

You are all over the place here. On the one hand you admit you sin/ don't obey the law. On the other you believe our continued justification is obeying the law

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Yes, Amein , at least in love and hope and joy of abiding in JESUS,
it looks like yes, this is perfectly seeking YHWH and HIS WAY, to live HIS WAY,
to DELIGHT IN HIM, as His Word Says always.

Yes, also, it is often awkward on this forum - all the different inputs , many not from God's Word, changing or twisting what God says to suit some other fancy or doctrine..... so it sometimes takes a little while to untangle even a simple message , if it gets misunderstood due to those other viewpoints published.

Yes, that is the whole point. But know that it is Christ living in us that gives us the ability to keep that law. And if we say we are not required to keep the law now that we have Christ in us we are not abiding in the truth. Christ MUST live in us, how does He live in us? By following the commandments of God which are the action of God's love in us. If we do not keep the commandments then we are guilty of stifling the Spirit of Christ in us. To live is to love, to love is to keep the commandments which are love toward God and love toward neighbor.
I know that you understand yeshuaslavejeff, I guess I'm at a loss for words trying to explain what it really means to love God and trying to unravel the idea that the keeping of the law is the only thing Christ does. It includes His entire existence and His sacrifice and if He lives in us then we will keep it also. Credit goes to Christ and then comes from Him.

 

[ToBeLoved]

The TC are an inflexible law. There is no pass mark of obedience to them that can justify you before God. Perfectly obey them or stand guilty before them.
There is nothing in those commandments about mercy or forgiveness

Yup.

Your either as sinless as Christ or guilty. Hence why the law is the schoolmaster to Christ. It shows us that we are all guilty of measuring up to God's standard. And without Christ, we can never get there.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

You are all over the place here. On the one hand you admit you sin/ don't obey the law. On the other you believe our continues justification is obeying the law

Such GRACE UPON GRACE < YES > !

And the WONDERFUL (apparent) paradoxes of SCRIPTURE !

 

[stuart lawrence]

Such GRACE UPON GRACE < YES > !

And the WONDERFUL (apparent) paradoxes of SCRIPTURE !

You haven't answered my question
Are you seriously suggesting Paul preached righteousness/ justification if observing the law?