Why would God have to punish the wicked for eternity?

[timothyu]

It''s God's justice we were talking about in contrast to forgiveness, and the importance of justice in human life.

Justice does not revolve around us but centers on the Kingdom of God.

 

[Clare73]

Justice does not revolve around us but centers on the Kingdom of God.

Justice revolves around God in everything that relates to him.
If he is not just and without partiality in all things, giving everyone what he is owed, he is not God.

 

[timothyu]

Justice revolves around God in everything that relates to him.
If he is not just and without partiality in all things, giving everyone what he is owed, he is not God.

Yes but it serves His purpose, not our desire to see justice doled out.

 

[Clare73]

Yes but it serves His purpose, not our desire to see justice doled out.

Strawman. . .

Where has that ever been asserted in this conversation?

 

[timothyu]

Where has that ever been asserted in this conversation?

Anyone who gets giddy over seeing someone punished might just have an ulterior motive in seeing themselves as more righteous, could they not? Look at how many hate politicians or those behind the events of the last three years as an example, yet should we not pray, not for their punishment, but that they see the error of their human ways?

 

[Mark Quayle]

I have some questions for those who believe that hell is a real place and that the wicked will be punished forever. What would be the purpose of this? What does it accomplish? How does this give glory to God? Why would God require the wicked dead to suffer forever?

I am not looking to debate whether or not hell is real. I don't believe it is; others do. I'm not looking for somebody to prove hell is real. What I seek is Scripture-based answers, answers using verses. I don't want opinions or speculations.

I wonder if that camp even thinks about these questions. It is clear in Scripture that unforgiven sinners will be punished for their sins. Jesus was punished on the cross for sins. He paid the price of the punishment for sins. Yet, did he not die? And with his death, did not the punishment for sins end? If you use the rationale that the punishment for sins is never to end, doesn't that mean that Jesus would still be on the cross, still being punished for sins, until today? And beyond today into eternity?
Without a doubt, there have been many, many wicked people in the history of mankind. Individuals, governments, religions, criminals, warlords, etc., are personally responsible for countless deaths. And the many others who have caused incredible pain and suffering. People who should have been made to suffer great punishment while alive. It is also true that God dealt out some severe punishments in the Old Testament.

Let's move on from all of that. So Jesus has returned and judged all of the goats. So, what happens next? There is no way that all goats are equally guilty of the same evil deeds, quantity or degree. Your vision of Dante's Infernal aside, Scripture makes no mention of what type of punishment or if there are different degrees of punishment awaiting the goats, so we must deduce that the punishment is the same type for all of the goats. So, will a man who abused his children, committed adultery, and embezzled money from his job be punished the same as Hitler or Stalin? Or a woman who was a junkie, defrauded the government, stole widows' social security checks, and robbed men for kicks is going to pay the same price as Pol Pot or Mao?
According to the narrative, every goat in hell will be punished forever and ever. Not just a hundred years, a thousand, a million but trillions of years? Doesn't that seem like overkill? Doesn't that seem beyond excessive? God can do as He sees fit, of course. So no amount of punishment ever fits the crimes, right? A thousand years of 24/7, excruciating, non-stop pain and agony isn't even close to being enough punishment, right? Not a thousand, not a million, not a trillion years is even close to unforgiven sin ever being paid for?
This is what you people believe. The idea that God would simply destroy all the goats after judgment day just doesn't make any sense, does it? According to you, God has no mercy and no sense of justice. Just "Let 'em burn," right? "Let them suffer forever," right? To me, this makes God out to be the most sadistic, mean, and petty tyrant one could ever imagine.
And yet, why would God do this? Everything God has done, is doing and will do is because He has a reason to do so. What would be the reason for hell? Everything that God started is going to come to an end and God is going to start over; any traces of the old world and the taint of man and sin will have been eradicated and forgotten. Does God want to keep a reminder of sinful men around? Is hell going to be there as a warning to the saints, who after the resurrection, will never commit sin again? I'm just trying to put this puzzle of ever-lasting punishment together. I'm hoping one of you can explain it to me, using Scripture of course!

Well, for starters, none of your objections actually matter regarding the truth of the word of God in Mt 25:46, which is authoritative.

It ended only for those who believe in and trust on Jesus' atoning work for their sin.
Those who do not do so are still guilty, their sin has not been atoned for, one's belief or unbelief of Jn 3:18, Jn 3:36 not-with-standing.

Failure to believe Jn 3:18, Jn 3:36.

Indeed, they are all guilty of the sin of rejecting Jesus Christ, who is the only remedy for God's condemnation of all men (Ro 5:18).

It's not about bad behavior, it's only about believing in or rejecting Jesus Christ (Jn 3:18, Jn 3:36).
That belief in and trust on Jesus Christ is the only remedy for God's condemnation of all men born of sinful Adam (Ro 5:18).

I'm thinking God is not responsible for anyone's rejection of his one and only remedy for his condemnation of all men (Ro 5:18).

No, hell is the result of their choice to reject the one and only remedy for hell. . .they chose it.
Don't blame God for their own choice.

Your issue is with the infinite wisdom of God's plan for mankind (Eph 3:9-11, 1Co 2:7).
Our job is to believe it, which does not necessarily require understanding it (Ro 11:33).

However, I can testify that with the enlightenment of the Holy Spirit, the more you absorb the truth of all God's word written, the more you will see, understand and agree (Ro 11:33-36).

One thing that is hilariously beautiful to me in watching those who are growing in Christ, is that their earlier questions fade in importance, next to the glory of God's grace and the joy of his pleasure. Bob asked the question, obviously according to his time-dependent notion that eternity means a long long time, time without end. Clare did not correct him on that, but provided all that is required and then some, for him to understand that his questions do not describe the facts well enough to be objecting to the facts, even if he is right about eternity being 'time without end'.

God is not like us, and doesn't operate from our time-dependent context. Eternity does not copy time. Time only is a poor picture of Eternity —a vapor, so to speak, by comparison to the solid reality of Heaven. In my mind I can't even approach what I 'know' to be the truth of it, and what I 'know' to be the truth of it, I happily confess, is blind as a bat. But one of the ways I try to describe it is to speculate that what we here know of as words, concepts, representations of 'what is', will there be actually 'what is'. What we here consider 'time passage', will there be 'causation'; and so on.

Thus, what we think of an eternity of punishment may well be a question of degree of torment, since there is no such thing as time passage outside of this temporal "envelope" to which we attribute such substance. It would explain, though there are several other 'possible' explanations, why Christ is not still there paying the eternal price for sin.

But there's something else, perhaps not related as such to the question of "no time in eternity": I often wonder why it says, not only that he bore our sins, but it says he became sin. I don't know what that means, and have yet to be satisfied with anything I have heard on the matter. The surface appearance of it is of such horror that I can't even look at it too long. There are many other verses all clamoring for attention at this subject, but I will leave them out for now, and just say, that being God himself is the reason he was able to return from the dead, yet have paid such an awful penalty.

 

[Clare73]

Anyone who gets giddy over seeing someone punished might just have an ulterior motive in seeing themselves as more righteous, could they not? Look at how many hate politicians or those behind the events of the last three years as an example, yet should we not pray, not for their punishment, but that they see the error of their human ways?

You didn't answer my question.

 

[Freth]

Why would God have to punish the wicked for eternity?​

The simplest answer is given in the most popular verse in the Bible.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.​

What about their torment lasting for ever and ever? Let's take a look.

Revelation 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.​

• The smoke of their torment ascends up for ever and ever.

Does for ever mean for ever? For ever and ever can mean forever, but it can also mean an unbroken age. Thus it can mean any period of time.

What of Sodom, Gomorrah, Edom? Similar language to Revelation 14:11.

Jeremiah 49:18 As in the overthrow of Sodom and Gomorrah and the neighbour cities thereof, saith the Lord, no man shall abide there, neither shall a son of man dwell in it.​

​

Isaiah 34:8-10 For it is the day of the Lord's vengeance, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion. And the streams thereof shall be turned into pitch, and the dust thereof into brimstone, and the land thereof shall become burning pitch. It shall not be quenched night nor day; the smoke thereof shall go up for ever: from generation to generation it shall lie waste; none shall pass through it for ever and ever.​

Are any of these cities still burning? Is the smoke still going up forever? No. They burned until they were destroyed and now lie in waste.

Satan, the beast and the false prophet get the worst punishment.

Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.​

Will Satan, the beast and the false prophet burn for eternity? No. How do we know? The heaven and earth, the site of the lake of fire, is made anew.

The last verse of Revelation 20 and the first verse of Revelation 21.

Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.​

Revelation 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.​

There are many other verses that speak of perishment and destruction in the lake of fire. It's pretty clear that hell, or what is referred to as the lake of fire, is not a place of eternal punishment, but a temporary means of executing judgment on the wicked. It also no doubt serves as a means of cleansing the earth of any remaining items from sinful man, so that the new heaven and earth can be made on a clean slate.

I'll leave you with this.

Malachi 4:3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the Lord of hosts.​

 

[Der Alte]

The simplest answer is given in the most popular verse in the Bible.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.​

What about their torment lasting for ever and ever? Let's take a look.

Revelation 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.​

• The smoke of their torment ascends up for ever and ever.

Side Note: I initially explored the possibility that the second half of verse 11 is referring to the seven last plagues (they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image). There is no doubt in verse 10 that it's talking about the lake of fire, but the tense used for worship is present, not past, which puts it before the lake of fire. Another consideration I was tossing around was that Revelation 15:8 says there is smoke in the temple in heaven during the seven last plagues, which could be what this verse is referring to, but again, read verse 10. I removed that part of the post, but wrote this note in its place.​

Does for ever mean for ever? For ever and ever can mean forever, but it can also mean an unbroken age. Thus it can mean any period of time.

What of Sodom, Gomorrah, Edom? Similar language to Revelation 14:11.

Jeremiah 49:18 As in the overthrow of Sodom and Gomorrah and the neighbour cities thereof, saith the Lord, no man shall abide there, neither shall a son of man dwell in it.​

​

Isaiah 34:8-10 For it is the day of the Lord's vengeance, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion. And the streams thereof shall be turned into pitch, and the dust thereof into brimstone, and the land thereof shall become burning pitch. It shall not be quenched night nor day; the smoke thereof shall go up for ever: from generation to generation it shall lie waste; none shall pass through it for ever and ever.​

Are any of these cities still burning? Is the smoke still going up forever? No. They burned until they were destroyed and now lie in waste.

Satan, the beast and the false prophet get the worst punishment.

Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.​

Will Satan, the beast and the false prophet burn for eternity? No. How do we know? The heaven and earth, the site of the lake of fire, is made anew.

The last verse of Revelation 20 and the first verse of Revelation 21.

Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.​

Revelation 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.​

There are many other verses that speak of perishment and destruction in the lake of fire. It's pretty clear that hell, or what is referred to as the lake of fire, is not a place of eternal punishment, but a temporary means of executing judgment on the wicked. It also no doubt serves as a means of cleansing the earth of any remaining items from sinful man, so that the new heaven and earth can be made on a clean slate.

I'll leave you with this.

Malachi 4:3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the Lord of hosts.​

For starters "aionios" which is correctly translated "eternal"/"everlasting" 47 times in the N.T. it is an adjective, "Age" is a noun. An adverb cannot be translated as a noun. I know of no combination of words which can change the adjective "aionios" into the noun "age."
In John 3:16, which you quoted, Jesus paralleled "aionios zoe"/eternal life with "shall not perish." That by definition conclusively shows "aionios" does in fact mean "eternal." There are 9 more similar verses spoken by Jesus.
Malachi 4:3 has nothing to do with the topic. That is what happens on one day in this life. There will not be any ashes of dead sinners in paradise for the saints to be treading down.
A few verses where a word is used figuratively does not determine the meaning of that word.
"Forever and ever" is a Hebraism. Hebrew lacked superlatives. For emphasis words were repeated. Were one to read the 1906 JPS Jewish Publication Society translation of the OT they would know that olam is translated "for ever" 300+ times and never translated age. Olam w'ad is translated "for ever and ever" 25 times.
Link to JPS:

Online Bible

 

[Diamond72]

I am not looking to debate whether or not hell is real. I don't believe it is; others do.

I prayed about this and God impressed it upon me many times that He is a God of absolute perfect Justice. This is why Jesus had to go to Calvary. God cannot contradict Himself. There is no other way other than Jesus. The red letters in the Bible are not that much. Even Jesus preaches it all in one sermon (on the mount). So we are without excuse.

Matthew 11 …17‘We played the flute for you, and you did not dance; we sang a dirge, and you did not mourn.’ 18For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, ‘He has a demon!’ 19The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, ‘Look at this glutton and drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!’ But wisdom is vindicated by her actions.”

We may not understand the Justice of God, but we can be sure that God IS JUST.

 

[Der Alte]

Duplicate.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I have some questions for those who believe that hell is a real place and that the wicked will be punished forever. What would be the purpose of this? What does it accomplish? How does this give glory to God? Why would God require the wicked dead to suffer forever?

I am not looking to debate whether or not hell is real. I don't believe it is; others do. I'm not looking for somebody to prove hell is real. What I seek is Scripture-based answers, answers using verses. I don't want opinions or speculations.

I wonder if that camp even thinks about these questions. It is clear in Scripture that unforgiven sinners will be punished for their sins. Jesus was punished on the cross for sins. He paid the price of the punishment for sins. Yet, did he not die? And with his death, did not the punishment for sins end? If you use the rationale that the punishment for sins is never to end, doesn't that mean that Jesus would still be on the cross, still being punished for sins, until today? And beyond today into eternity?
Without a doubt, there have been many, many wicked people in the history of mankind. Individuals, governments, religions, criminals, warlords, etc., are personally responsible for countless deaths. And the many others who have caused incredible pain and suffering. People who should have been made to suffer great punishment while alive. It is also true that God dealt out some severe punishments in the Old Testament.

Let's move on from all of that. So Jesus has returned and judged all of the goats. So, what happens next? There is no way that all goats are equally guilty of the same evil deeds, quantity or degree. Your vision of Dante's Infernal aside, Scripture makes no mention of what type of punishment or if there are different degrees of punishment awaiting the goats, so we must deduce that the punishment is the same type for all of the goats. So, will a man who abused his children, committed adultery, and embezzled money from his job be punished the same as Hitler or Stalin? Or a woman who was a junkie, defrauded the government, stole widows' social security checks, and robbed men for kicks is going to pay the same price as Pol Pot or Mao?
According to the narrative, every goat in hell will be punished forever and ever. Not just a hundred years, a thousand, a million but trillions of years? Doesn't that seem like overkill? Doesn't that seem beyond excessive? God can do as He sees fit, of course. So no amount of punishment ever fits the crimes, right? A thousand years of 24/7, excruciating, non-stop pain and agony isn't even close to being enough punishment, right? Not a thousand, not a million, not a trillion years is even close to unforgiven sin ever being paid for?
This is what you people believe. The idea that God would simply destroy all the goats after judgment day just doesn't make any sense, does it? According to you, God has no mercy and no sense of justice. Just "Let 'em burn," right? "Let them suffer forever," right? To me, this makes God out to be the most sadistic, mean, and petty tyrant one could ever imagine.
And yet, why would God do this? Everything God has done, is doing and will do is because He has a reason to do so. What would be the reason for hell? Everything that God started is going to come to an end and God is going to start over; any traces of the old world and the taint of man and sin will have been eradicated and forgotten. Does God want to keep a reminder of sinful men around? Is hell going to be there as a warning to the saints, who after the resurrection, will never commit sin again? I'm just trying to put this puzzle of ever-lasting punishment together. I'm hoping one of you can explain it to me, using Scripture of course!

I don't think that it would any point for me to try and prove anything to you. You have given full justification in your own mind that there is no real place called Hell. Any debate about that will go on and on and end up going nowhere. It is quite clear to me that Jesus believed that Hell is a real place, and that is good enough for me. As far as eternal punishment is concerned, the other member has given clear Scripture in the Greek that says that punishment of the wicked will be eternal. I would speculate that criminal court judge giving extremely wicked criminals life in prison without the possibility of parole would be unacceptable to you as well. Follows the same principle, except with God it is that the wicked will be banished into outer darkness without the possibility of parole. The sin that will never be forgiven is rejection of the salvation that Christ offers through His finished work on the Cross. In the Book of Hebrews it says that those who crucify Christ afresh and tread underfoot His shed blood will never be forgiven either in this world or the next. That sounds to me like punishment without parole in this world and in eternity.

 

[anetazo]

God doesn't torture anybody. Many people confuse hell and lake of fire. Thier both separate subjects. Luke chapter 16, Jesus gave analogy of Richman and Lazarus. There are two sides of the Gulf. The saints in paradise and wicked in sheol, called Hell. Those in hell, are walking around, feeling shame, sadness and fear. Thier waiting for judgement day. At end of millennium,, is judgement day, revelation chapter 20 to document. Those found unworthy, these are reprobates. Go into lake of fire with satan. Thier blotted out, they don't exist anymore. Again, God doesn't torture anybody. The reprobates go into lake of fire. We can't have troublemakers during the eternity. Those who wont give up their traditions of men and false doctrine. We can't have problems during the eternity. God will accept only true worship and sound doctrine. Those who hate the saints. Thier wicked and troublemakers. Jesus is the judge, and those unworthy will be blotted out.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

God doesn't torture anybody. Many people confuse hell and lake of fire. Thier both separate subjects. Luke chapter 16, Jesus gave analogy of Richman and Lazarus. There are two sides of the Gulf. The saints in paradise and wicked in sheol, called Hell. Those in hell, are walking around, feeling shame, sadness and fear. Thier waiting for judgement day. At end of millennium,, is judgement day, revelation chapter 20 to document. Those found unworthy, these are reprobates. Go into lake of fire with satan. Thier blotted out, they don't exist anymore. Again, God doesn't torture anybody. The reprobates go into lake of fire. We can't have troublemakers during the eternity. Those who wont give up their traditions of men and false doctrine. We can't have problems during the eternity. God will accept only true worship and sound doctrine. Those who hate the saints. Thier wicked and troublemakers. Jesus is the judge, and those unworthy will be blotted out.

Ah! You wouldn't be SDA by any chance?

 

[Der Alte]

God doesn't torture anybody. Many people confuse hell and lake of fire. Thier both separate subjects. Luke chapter 16, Jesus gave analogy of Richman and Lazarus. There are two sides of the Gulf. The saints in paradise and wicked in sheol, called Hell. Those in hell, are walking around, feeling shame, sadness and fear. Thier waiting for judgement day. At end of millennium,, is judgement day, revelation chapter 20 to document. Those found unworthy, these are reprobates. Go into lake of fire with satan. Thier blotted out, they don't exist anymore. Again, God doesn't torture anybody. The reprobates go into lake of fire. We can't have troublemakers during the eternity. Those who wont give up their traditions of men and false doctrine. We can't have problems during the eternity. God will accept only true worship and sound doctrine. Those who hate the saints. Thier wicked and troublemakers. Jesus is the judge, and those unworthy will be blotted out.

Satan, the beast and the false prophet, who OBTW is a person, do not get blotted out.

Revelation 20:10​

(10) and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.​

Also, while the lake of fire is called "the second death," twice, not one vs. says that anyone/anything is thrown into the LOF then they/it dies. I have read the end of the book.

Revelation 22:11​

(11) He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.​

Last book, last chapter no more death, no more salvation only "He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still:" ten more vss. the end. roll end credits, fade to black.
As for "God doesn't torture anybody." Jesus didn't get that memo. Matthew 25:46.

 

[Der Alte]

Just because Jesus talks about dire consequences for sin doesn't necessarily entail "eternal conscious torment" for people that happen to belong to the wrong religion. It's true I can't prove that in some positivist manner, but I don't think the case for the classical western view of perdition is iron-clad.
I have a hard time believing there were modern Homo sapiens for around 70,000 years and they all went to Hell simply for not believing in Jesus. Likewise I have trouble believing that the tens of billions of people that have lived since the time of Christ, and never been in fellowship with any of the Apostles or their successors, have all gone to Hell. If God is so offended by "wrong belief", why are there so many religions?

A few vss. which address your objections. I think these vss. includes infants, small children, the mentally challenged, those who live in remote areas and have never heard the gospel etc.

Romans 4:15
(15) Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.
Romans 5:13
(13) (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Romans 2:14
(14) For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:​

 

[Butch5]

I have some questions for those who believe that hell is a real place and that the wicked will be punished forever. What would be the purpose of this? What does it accomplish? How does this give glory to God? Why would God require the wicked dead to suffer forever?

I am not looking to debate whether or not hell is real. I don't believe it is; others do. I'm not looking for somebody to prove hell is real. What I seek is Scripture-based answers, answers using verses. I don't want opinions or speculations.

I wonder if that camp even thinks about these questions. It is clear in Scripture that unforgiven sinners will be punished for their sins. Jesus was punished on the cross for sins. He paid the price of the punishment for sins. Yet, did he not die? And with his death, did not the punishment for sins end? If you use the rationale that the punishment for sins is never to end, doesn't that mean that Jesus would still be on the cross, still being punished for sins, until today? And beyond today into eternity?
Without a doubt, there have been many, many wicked people in the history of mankind. Individuals, governments, religions, criminals, warlords, etc., are personally responsible for countless deaths. And the many others who have caused incredible pain and suffering. People who should have been made to suffer great punishment while alive. It is also true that God dealt out some severe punishments in the Old Testament.

Let's move on from all of that. So Jesus has returned and judged all of the goats. So, what happens next? There is no way that all goats are equally guilty of the same evil deeds, quantity or degree. Your vision of Dante's Infernal aside, Scripture makes no mention of what type of punishment or if there are different degrees of punishment awaiting the goats, so we must deduce that the punishment is the same type for all of the goats. So, will a man who abused his children, committed adultery, and embezzled money from his job be punished the same as Hitler or Stalin? Or a woman who was a junkie, defrauded the government, stole widows' social security checks, and robbed men for kicks is going to pay the same price as Pol Pot or Mao?
According to the narrative, every goat in hell will be punished forever and ever. Not just a hundred years, a thousand, a million but trillions of years? Doesn't that seem like overkill? Doesn't that seem beyond excessive? God can do as He sees fit, of course. So no amount of punishment ever fits the crimes, right? A thousand years of 24/7, excruciating, non-stop pain and agony isn't even close to being enough punishment, right? Not a thousand, not a million, not a trillion years is even close to unforgiven sin ever being paid for?
This is what you people believe. The idea that God would simply destroy all the goats after judgment day just doesn't make any sense, does it? According to you, God has no mercy and no sense of justice. Just "Let 'em burn," right? "Let them suffer forever," right? To me, this makes God out to be the most sadistic, mean, and petty tyrant one could ever imagine.
And yet, why would God do this? Everything God has done, is doing and will do is because He has a reason to do so. What would be the reason for hell? Everything that God started is going to come to an end and God is going to start over; any traces of the old world and the taint of man and sin will have been eradicated and forgotten. Does God want to keep a reminder of sinful men around? Is hell going to be there as a warning to the saints, who after the resurrection, will never commit sin again? I'm just trying to put this puzzle of ever-lasting punishment together. I'm hoping one of you can explain it to me, using Scripture of course!

There is no Scripture that supports it. It's just another of the pagan doctrines that have been added to Christianity over the centuries. In Scripture the word hell is the grave. It's not a place of eternal torment. Translators have written this doctrine into the Bible by translating the Greek word aion as eternal rather than as age as it should be. About all anyone can give from Scriputre will be misunderstood passages out of context. God said through Ezekiel, ' the soul that sins shall die'. The apostle Paul said, 'the wages of sin is death'. Simple straight forward passages, nothing twisted or convoluted to try and make the Bible say something else.

 

[GenemZ]

I have some questions for those who believe that hell is a real place and that the wicked will be punished forever. What would be the purpose of this? What does it accomplish? How does this give glory to God? Why would God require the wicked dead to suffer forever?

I am not looking to debate whether or not hell is real. I don't believe it is; others do. I'm not looking for somebody to prove hell is real. What I seek is Scripture-based answers, answers using verses. I don't want opinions or speculations.

I wonder if that camp even thinks about these questions. It is clear in Scripture that unforgiven sinners will be punished for their sins. Jesus was punished on the cross for sins. He paid the price of the punishment for sins. Yet, did he not die? And with his death, did not the punishment for sins end? If you use the rationale that the punishment for sins is never to end, doesn't that mean that Jesus would still be on the cross, still being punished for sins, until today? And beyond today into eternity?
Without a doubt, there have been many, many wicked people in the history of mankind. Individuals, governments, religions, criminals, warlords, etc., are personally responsible for countless deaths. And the many others who have caused incredible pain and suffering. People who should have been made to suffer great punishment while alive. It is also true that God dealt out some severe punishments in the Old Testament.

Let's move on from all of that. So Jesus has returned and judged all of the goats. So, what happens next? There is no way that all goats are equally guilty of the same evil deeds, quantity or degree. Your vision of Dante's Infernal aside, Scripture makes no mention of what type of punishment or if there are different degrees of punishment awaiting the goats, so we must deduce that the punishment is the same type for all of the goats. So, will a man who abused his children, committed adultery, and embezzled money from his job be punished the same as Hitler or Stalin? Or a woman who was a junkie, defrauded the government, stole widows' social security checks, and robbed men for kicks is going to pay the same price as Pol Pot or Mao?
According to the narrative, every goat in hell will be punished forever and ever. Not just a hundred years, a thousand, a million but trillions of years? Doesn't that seem like overkill? Doesn't that seem beyond excessive? God can do as He sees fit, of course. So no amount of punishment ever fits the crimes, right? A thousand years of 24/7, excruciating, non-stop pain and agony isn't even close to being enough punishment, right? Not a thousand, not a million, not a trillion years is even close to unforgiven sin ever being paid for?
This is what you people believe. The idea that God would simply destroy all the goats after judgment day just doesn't make any sense, does it? According to you, God has no mercy and no sense of justice. Just "Let 'em burn," right? "Let them suffer forever," right? To me, this makes God out to be the most sadistic, mean, and petty tyrant one could ever imagine.
And yet, why would God do this? Everything God has done, is doing and will do is because He has a reason to do so. What would be the reason for hell? Everything that God started is going to come to an end and God is going to start over; any traces of the old world and the taint of man and sin will have been eradicated and forgotten. Does God want to keep a reminder of sinful men around? Is hell going to be there as a warning to the saints, who after the resurrection, will never commit sin again? I'm just trying to put this puzzle of ever-lasting punishment together. I'm hoping one of you can explain it to me, using Scripture of course!

Torment is designed to cause those in Hell to cease being able to concentrate on anyone outside of them self. They become preoccupied with their own agony. They forever would not be able to externalize their evil intent upon another when they are preoccupied with their own pain.

Torments has to be forever for two reasons.

First reason, is so that those who hate those who are good will not be able to negatively effect those who are good. Evil hates the good. Being pre-occupied with their own pain? Will disable evil's ability to negatively effect those who are good.

And, since God created the human soul in His image? That soul will remain existing forever.

The soul, like energy, can not be destroyed. Those who are good will be living joyously forever with God. If evil was allowed to be free? Evil would crave to torment the Good... even in varying degrees. So? Evil must be kept forever preoccupied with torment to keep evil from detracting from the joyous life of the Good who will live forever.


The Good will be alive in God's life forever. Free from all forms of unhappiness.


grace and peace ........................

 

[Butch5]

The Early Church Fathers, with very few exceptions, agree with traditional views descriptions of Hell as a place of eternal, conscious torment:

1. Hell is a place of judgment for those who have rejected God and denied Jesus as their Savior
2. Hell is a place of separation from God
3. Hell is a place of torment in which the rebellious are in anguish and pain
4. Hell is a place where the rebellious are tormented forever and are conscious of this torment for all eternity (In fact, the eternal duration of their torment is often compared to the eternal duration of the reward of the saved)

At the same time, the earliest Church Fathers are ambiguous on those areas where the Bible is ALSO ambiguous.

1. The exact nature of the torment of the rebellious is unknown
2. The manner in which the rebellious are kept alive in spite of ‘deathly’ anguish is also un-described

The Early Church Fathers simply reflected the clearest teachings of the Bible. Here is a very brief assessment of several quotes made by early Christians about the nature of Hell:

From “The Epistle of Barnabas” (70-130AD)
The author of the Epistle of Barnabas is unknown, but many consider him to simply be who he said he was, Barnabas, the associate of Paul who is mentioned in the Book of Acts. The letter was written to new converts to Christianity:

The way of darkness is crooked, and it is full of cursing. It is the way of eternal death with punishment. (“Epistle of Barnabas”)

From Ignatius of Antioch (110AD)
Ignatius was a student of the Apostle John, and succeeded the Apostle Peter as the Bishop of Antioch. He wrote a number of important letters to believers in churches in the area:

Continued below.

What Did Early Christians Believe About Hell? | Cold Case Christianity

The Early Church Fathers, with very few exceptions, agree with traditional views descriptions of Hell as a place of eternal, conscious torment

coldcasechristianity.com

The Early Church Father's were also Greek.

 

[Butch5]

"Everlasting punishment" (Mt 25:46) is not punishment if you don't exist.

Aion doesnt mean everlasting. Jesus spoke of the end of the aion. Everlasting isn't everlasting if it ends.