I have some questions for those who believe that hell is a real place and that the wicked will be punished forever.
I do and yes they will.
What would be the purpose of this? What does it accomplish? How does this give glory to God? Why would God require the wicked dead to suffer forever?
The purpose is justice. A human judge may sentence someone to life in prison or in the US to death. They decide the punishment to fit the crime (although I think this is often poorly done.) Unlike a human judge God knows the truth of what was done, even the hidden things. People often get away with robbery, rape and murder in the human system, they won't get away with it in front of God.
Romans 12:19
Do not take revenge, my dear friends, but leave room for God’s wrath, for it is written: “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” says the Lord.
Also we need to understand exactly what the suffering is. God will raise the dead to life to face judgment and then comes the lake of fire which is the second death, the body is then gone. It is the soul and spirit that remain.
The only ones being tormented forever in the lake of fire are the devil, the beast and the false prophet.
Revelation 20:10 And the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
I am not looking to debate whether or not hell is real. I don't believe it is; others do. I'm not looking for somebody to prove hell is real. What I seek is Scripture-based answers, answers using verses. I don't want opinions or speculations.
I wonder if that camp even thinks about these questions.
Of course we think about it and we can only understand it as far as scripture explains it. Some will draw different conclusions to what exactly hell is due to many verses about hell being symbolic. Hell fire is often the mind picture, but the physically body has gone so there is no body to feel with, so that cannot be meant literally. What type of pain can a soul and or spirit know? I beleive it will be emotional and spiritual pain and suffering. It will be the pain of being separated from God, the pain of knowing everything wrong that you ever did.
It is clear in Scripture that unforgiven sinners will be punished for their sins. Jesus was punished on the cross for sins. He paid the price of the punishment for sins. Yet, did he not die? And with his death, did not the punishment for sins end? If you use the rationale that the punishment for sins is never to end, doesn't that mean that Jesus would still be on the cross, still being punished for sins, until today? And beyond today into eternity?
Jesus offers to pay our debt, but the offering doesn't come without something in return. The charge is that he becomes our Lord and savior and that we follow him. A person can reject the offer in which case Jesus has not taken that persons sin away, they will carry those themselves to the judgment seat.
Revelation 20
12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15 Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.
Anyone whose name was not found in the book of life are those who rejected the free gift of Jesus. The lake of fire is the second death of the body.
Without a doubt, there have been many, many wicked people in the history of mankind. Individuals, governments, religions, criminals, warlords, etc., are personally responsible for countless deaths. And the many others who have caused incredible pain and suffering. People who should have been made to suffer great punishment while alive. It is also true that God dealt out some severe punishments in the Old Testament.
The punishment their soul will feel (One verse indicates a separation between spirit and soul. (
Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it. Ecclesiastes 12:7 ) will match what they have done.
The dead were judged according to what they had done This means it will be individual, not all will have the same level of punishment. But because God is righteous and merciful the punishment will be what is required and no more. If someone has been very wicked I have no doubt they will be punished more severely.
Let's move on from all of that. So Jesus has returned and judged all of the goats. So, what happens next?
There is no way that all goats are equally guilty of the same evil deeds, quantity or degree. Your vision of Dante's Infernal aside, Scripture makes no mention of what type of punishment or if there are different degrees of punishment awaiting the goats, so we must deduce that the punishment is the same type for all of the goats. So, will a man who abused his children, committed adultery, and embezzled money from his job be punished the same as Hitler or Stalin? Or a woman who was a junkie, defrauded the government, stole widows' social security checks, and robbed men for kicks is going to pay the same price as Pol Pot or Mao?
This does not occur until after the 1 thousand years.
I would suggest a careful reading of Revelation 20. At some point Satan is to be bound for 1000 years. After that he is to be set free to deceive the world if he can. The people don't have to be deceived, again this is a choice they make. We have always had the choice, follow God or don't follow God.
The saved dead from before this thousand years will be raised to reign with Christ for this time span while the unsaved dead from before this time will stay dead until that thousand years is over.
Then there is to be a battle. After that is when the three, the devil, beast and false prophet are to be thrown in the lake of fire.
Then comes the judgment.
None of this has happened yet.
As scripture says
The dead were judged according to what they had done
According to the narrative, every goat in hell will be punished forever and ever. Not just a hundred years, a thousand, a million but trillions of years?
It is the soul with its burden of sin. They refused the offer for this burden to be taken from them. They made their choice and now they 'live' with that choice.
God came down as man, died a horrible death on a cross and offered to take away the burden. He also warned us that keeping our burdens would involve an eternity of pain, I beleive this is emotional and spiritual pain. What else should He have done for ungrateful humanity?
Doesn't that seem like overkill? Doesn't that seem beyond excessive?
Not at all. Not when you see it is not literal physical pain. The fact that God kills the unregenerate in the lake of fire is a kindness. It is a quick second death.
God can do as He sees fit, of course. So no amount of punishment ever fits the crimes, right? A thousand years of 24/7, excruciating, non-stop pain and agony isn't even close to being enough punishment, right? Not a thousand, not a million, not a trillion years is even close to unforgiven sin ever being paid for?
It is the soul that will lament with guilt. The sin can never at that point be forgiven as there is only the soul left. You have your body and mind with the ability to repent until the day you die.
This is what you people believe. The idea that God would simply destroy all the goats after judgment day just doesn't make any sense, does it?
It makes perfect sense once when you understand why God created us in the first place. God created us to have a people unto his own living in a perfect world without fear or pain. The world now is merely the testing grounds to see who wants to live on the perfect world.
Revelation 21
21 Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth,” for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. 2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. 4 ‘He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’ or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”
There are numerous verses on the second world, the world which is to come after the judgment seat.
God knew every person to ever be born, do you think he wanted Hitler on the perfect world? or people who want no part of him? How do you weed them out? You make them choose during the first life they are given. This is our first life were we get to choose if we want to live forever on the new world or not. I do not feel that churches preach enough about the new world, they seem to stop at hell. Hell and heaven as it is now are just the waiting rooms for the resurrection and judgment before God makes the new world which is for eternity.
According to you, God has no mercy and no sense of justice. Just "Let 'em burn," right? "Let them suffer forever," right? To me, this makes God out to be the most sadistic, mean, and petty tyrant one could ever imagine.
And yet, why would God do this? Everything God has done, is doing and will do is because He has a reason to do so. What would be the reason for hell? Everything that God started is going to come to an end and God is going to start over; any traces of the old world and the taint of man and sin will have been eradicated and forgotten. Does God want to keep a reminder of sinful men around? Is hell going to be there as a warning to the saints, who after the resurrection, will never commit sin again? I'm just trying to put this puzzle of ever-lasting punishment together. I'm hoping one of you can explain it to me, using Scripture of course!
The only thing that will burn will be the first body and it will be quick. The new body will be different, not only will it be incorruptible but the Bible says it will be like the body Jesus had after the resurrection. He could enter closed rooms, could disappear and reappear but he also ate and they could touch and feel him.
Hell or what we refer to as hell will be for just punishment.
After the resurrection there is no bad feelings. The saints won't sin as that nature is gone.
