Why would God have to punish the wicked for eternity?

[Butch5]

Bible says alot of things. Maybe you could answer my first question. Which is a greater Savior. One who saves mankind from annihilation? Or one who saves mankind from eternal torment ?

Your question is based on opinion. Since there is no such things as eternal torment, I would answer the greater savior is the one who saves from annihilation.

God said through Ezekiel, 'the soul that sins shall die'. He didn't say the soul that sins shall suffer eternally torment.

Paul said, 'the wages of sin is death'. He didn't say the wages of sin is eternal torment.

 

[BurningBush84]

Your question is based on opinion. Since there is no such things as eternal torment, I would answer the greater savior is the one who saves from annihilation.

God said through Ezekiel, 'the soul that sins shall die'. He didn't say the soul that sins shall suffer eternally torment.

Paul said, 'the wages of sin is death'. He didn't say the wages of sin is eternal torment.

Atheists already believe in death. When they're friends die, they say, "Rest In Peace". What's the difference between annihilation and Resting In Peace ?

 

[Butch5]

Atheists already believe in death. When they're friends die, they say, "Rest In Peace". What's the difference between annihilation and Resting In Peace ?

Rest in peace suggests an existence where one is resting. Annihilation is ceasing to exist.

 

[BurningBush84]

You couldnt even answer that Savior question could you ?

Rest in peace suggests an existence where one is resting. Annihilation is ceasing to exist.

Atheists don't believe anyone ever exists after they die. But they still say "Rest In Peace".

Resting In Peace and annihilation are basically the same thing. You don't feel anything. You don't feel any regret. You don't feel any remorse. You don't feel any sadness. You don't remember any punishment. You don't remember what you've learned . You don't feel any kind of pain whatsoever. You don't learn from your past mistakes . You don't have to endure any consequences.

So why should we fear God's wrath ? If God's wrath means Resting In Peace. That's a license to sin and continue in atheism . Annihilation means a quick death in the lake of fire that I won't remember anyways because I'll be annihilated. I'll be Resting In Peace . I won't miss NOT being in heaven because I won't exist. You can't miss anything if you don't exist. Annihilation is a reward for being wicked. Annihilation is Resting In Peace.

 

[Butch5]

You couldnt even answer that Savior question could you ?


Atheists don't believe anyone ever exists after they die. But they still say "Rest In Peace".

Resting In Peace and annihilation are basically the same thing. You don't feel anything. You don't feel any regret. You don't feel any remorse. You don't feel any sadness. You don't remember any punishment. You don't remember what you've learned . You don't feel any kind of pain whatsoever. You don't learn from your past mistakes . You don't have to endure any consequences.

So why should we fear God's wrath ? If God's wrath means Resting In Peace. That's a license to sin and continue in atheism . Annihilation means a quick death in the lake of fire that I won't remember anyways because I'll be annihilated. I'll be Resting In Peace . I won't miss NOT being in heaven because I won't exist. You can't miss anything if you don't exist. Annihilation is a reward for being wicked. Annihilation is Resting In Peace.

I did answer your question. You're using figurative language to make your argument. That isn't sound. You're issuing the point. The punishment is death. As I pointed out, God said, 'the soul that sins shall die', Paul said,' the wages of sin is death'. All you've provided is an opinion. Personally, I think what God said is more important than what atheists say.

 

[BurningBush84]

I did answer your question. You're using figurative language to make your argument. That isn't sound. You're issuing the point. The punishment is death. As I pointed out, God said, 'the soul that sins shall die', Paul said,' the wages of sin is death'. All you've provided is an opinion. Personally, I think what God said is more important than what atheists say.

Well I was told babies don't sin, yet they die all the time. I wonder sometimes if your actually reading these Bible versus I'm about to quote.

"If your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life maimed or crippled than to have two hands or two feet and be thrown into eternal fire." Matthew 18:8 It does NOT say this, " It is better for you to enter life maimed or crippled than to have two hands or two feet and be annihilated". See where I edited Gods word to please my itching ears.

" In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’" Luke 16

"Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’ Matthew 7:22

"And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.". Revelation 20:10

Here is what Rev 20:10 does NOT say,


""And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be annihilated". See where I edited Gods word to please my itching ears?

"“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels."
Matt 25:41

Trying comparing Revelation 20:10 with Matthew 25:41. See the obvious connection ? Created beings getting sentenced to eternal torment in the lake of fire.

" they, too, will drink the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. They will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.” Revelation 14:10-11

I don't see the word annihilated anywhere do you?

"“Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.” Matt 25:46 Here is what Matt 25:46 does NOT say

"Then they will go away to be annihilated , but the righteous to eternal life" See where I edited Gods word to please my sinful nature ?


May God open your eyes .



"

 

[Der Alte]

Your question is based on opinion. Since there is no such things as eternal torment, I would answer the greater savior is the one who saves from annihilation.
God said through Ezekiel, 'the soul that sins shall die'. He didn't say the soul that sins shall suffer eternally torment.
Paul said, 'the wages of sin is death'. He didn't say the wages of sin is eternal torment.

I guess Jesus was lying when He said to those on His left

Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.​

Also see.

Revelation 20:10
(10) And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.​

The false prophet is a person.

 

[BurningBush84]

Revelation 21:4 proves annihilation is the 2nd greatest gift God could ever give mankind.

"There will be no more death’ or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”

You get the same thing with annihilation

 

[Der Alte]

Revelation 21:4 proves annihilation is the 2nd greatest gift God could ever give mankind.
"There will be no more death’ or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”
You get the same thing with annihilation

Several years ago I was travelling from the west coast to Virginia for my rich uncle in DC. The man in the seat next to me was reading the Bible. To start a conversation I said "That's a good book I like how it ends." He smiled then I said "You are a military aviator." Surprised he said, "Do I have a sign on my forehead?" I said "No, the [military] glasses and haircut." I had the glasses and previously the haircut.
Having said that, I have read the end of the book.

Revelation 22:11​

(11) He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.​

Last book, last chapter ten more vss. the end, no more death, no more salvation only, He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still, the end, roll end credits, fade to black.
Where are hose who are still, unjust and filthy?

Revelation 22:15
(15) For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.​

 

[Butch5]

I guess Jesus was lying when He said to those on His left

Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.​

Also see.

Revelation 20:10​

(10) And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.​

The false prophet is a person.

Not at all. You just don't understand what He's saying.

 

[BurningBush84]

Not at all. You just don't understand what He's saying.

"It doesn't mean what it says". That's the same type of talk the Serpent used in Genesis 3:1. "Did God REALLY say that ?". Thats the same kind of talk the Serpent used (father of lies) , the same type of talk Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses use.

 

[Butch5]

"It doesn't mean what it says". That's the same type of talk the Serpent used in Genesis 3:1. "Did God REALLY say that ?". Thats the same kind of talk the Serpent used (father of lies) , the same type of talk Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses use.

On the contrary, it doesn't say what he thinks it says. When the translators mistranslate something the English translation isn't "what Jesus said". It's what the translators "think He said". There's a huge difference between the two.

 

[BurningBush84]

On the contrary, it doesn't say what he thinks it says. When the translators mistranslate something the English translation isn't "what Jesus said". It's what the translators "think He said". There's a huge difference between the two.

God said we would not be tempted beyond what we can bear. I go to Bible hub .com and type in John 1:1. I think they all say the Word was God. But Jehovah's Witnesses say only their Bible (NWT) translated John 1:1 correctly. Which says Jesus was a god. So God tempted mankind with a bunch of disinformation but finally in the 1960s He finally allowed the truth to come out when the Watch Tower Society made the New World Translation.

I go to Bible Hub.com and type in
Matthew 25:46 . 99.9% of those different Bibles do NOT have the word "age" in Matthew 25:46.

At a trial if there were 100 witnesses to the crime but only 1 for the defense , I'm going to go with the 99%.

Because God would not tempt mankind with a bunch of misinformation.

And we have other passages also like Revelation 14:11

 

[Butch5]

Well I was told babies don't sin, yet they die all the time. I wonder sometimes if your actually reading these Bible versus I'm about to quote.

"If your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life maimed or crippled than to have two hands or two feet and be thrown into eternal fire." Matthew 18:8 It does NOT say this, " It is better for you to enter life maimed or crippled than to have two hands or two feet and be annihilated". See where I edited Gods word to please my itching ears.

" In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’" Luke 16

"Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’ Matthew 7:22

"And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.". Revelation 20:10

Here is what Rev 20:10 does NOT say,


""And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be annihilated". See where I edited Gods word to please my itching ears?

"“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels."
Matt 25:41

Trying comparing Revelation 20:10 with Matthew 25:41. See the obvious connection ? Created beings getting sentenced to eternal torment in the lake of fire.

" they, too, will drink the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. They will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.” Revelation 14:10-11

I don't see the word annihilated anywhere do you?

"“Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.” Matt 25:46 Here is what Matt 25:46 does NOT say

"Then they will go away to be annihilated , but the righteous to eternal life" See where I edited Gods word to please my sinful nature ?


May God open your eyes .



"

The first error in your post is assuming that because something isn't stated the way "you'd" Loke it to be, it isn't so. The second error is not understanding that death is annihilation. If one starts with the wrong presuppositions one draws the wrong conclusions. Those who argue that man lives on after death, deny the very meaning of the word death. They make it out to be some kind of life. Yet, death is the opposite of life. Babies die because sin entered the world and death through sin, thus all are affected by death. However, the worst error is what I see so often. You ignore what God and Paul said about death and post passages you "think" support your position. However, when those passages are properly understood they don't. That's essentially "Cheryl picking" another fallacy.

 

[timothyu]

Heaven was/is full of gods, many of which fell and tried to rule the earth and especially nations. It appears much of the Bible is about God's reclamation of what was rightly His and continually tells us to put no other god's before Him. Jesus of course said he only did the will of the Father so one might question those who attempt to make Him according to their own will.

 

[Butch5]

God said we would not be tempted beyond what we can bear. I go to Bible hub .com and type in John 1:1. I think they all say the Word was God. But Jehovah's Witnesses say only their Bible (NWT) translated John 1:1 correctly. Which says Jesus was a god. So God tempted mankind with a bunch of disinformation but finally in the 1960s He finally allowed the truth to come out when the Watch Tower Society made the New World Translation.

I go to Bible Hub.com and type in
Matthew 25:46 . 99.9% of those different Bibles do NOT have the word "age" in Matthew 25:46.

At a trial if there were 100 witnesses to the crime but only 1 for the defense , I'm going to go with the 99%.

Because God would not tempt mankind with a bunch of misinformation.

And we have other passages also like Revelation 14:11

The question is, will God look past willful ignorance? When you look at Bible Hub and see 100 translations all reading the same way you should ask yourself, why? Could it be that they all believe the same thing? Could it be that they all came from seminaries that taught the same thing? If they were all taught the same thing wouldn't we expect them all to translate the same? What you have to understand is that one negative negates any number of positives. If you said all cars are red. I only need to produce one car that isn't red to disprove your claim. It doesn't matter if you produce, 10, 100, or 1,000,000 red cars. If I produce one that isn't red your claim that all cars are red is proven false.

So, let's see how this works. How long is forever?

 

[BurningBush84]

The first error in your post is assuming that because something isn't stated the way "you'd" Loke it to be, it isn't so. The second error is not understanding that death is annihilation. If one starts with the wrong presuppositions one draws the wrong conclusions. Those who argue that man lives on after death, deny the very meaning of the word death. They make it out to be some kind of life. Yet, death is the opposite of life. Babies die because sin entered the world and death through sin, thus all are affected by death. However, the worst error is what I see so often. You ignore what God and Paul said about death and post passages you "think" support your position. However, when those passages are properly understood they don't. That's essentially "Cheryl picking" another fallacy.

How can the annihilated bury anything ???? They don't exist. People who don't exist can't bury anyone.

"Jesus said to him, “Let the dead bury their own dead,". Luke 9:60

 

[timothyu]

"Jesus said to him, “Let the dead bury their own dead,". Luke 9:60

He is referring to the unenlightened

 

[BurningBush84]

The question is, will God look past willful ignorance? When you look at Bible Hub and see 100 translations all reading the same way you should ask yourself, why? Could it be that they all believe the same thing? Could it be that they all came from seminaries that taught the same thing? If they were all taught the same thing wouldn't we expect them all to translate the same? What you have to understand is that one negative negates any number of positives. If you said all cars are red. I only need to produce one car that isn't red to disprove your claim. It doesn't matter if you produce, 10, 100, or 1,000,000 red cars. If I produce one that isn't red your claim that all cars are red is proven false.

So, let's see how this works. How long is forever?

No they don't agree. All those different Bibles were made by different scholars with different beliefs. Yet I only see 1 version that has the word "age" in Matthew 25:46.

Using your own reasoning then, you'd have to say that only the New World Translation got John 1:1 correctly. So you believe Jesus was a god. Do you use the NWT ?

 

[BurningBush84]

He is referring to the unenlightened

You just told me death means annihilation. Now you say it means unenlightened.