Why worry about the Ten Commandments, if you are disregarding the Sabbath?

Leimeng · Apr 13, 2005

~ There is Scripture saying that God repented, and stories in scripture about God changing His mind. Let us see if anyone can find it in the next few weeks.
~ The Mosaic covenant was between GOD and the Children of Israel. Specifically, it is with the Jews and the physcial descendants of Jews who GOD brought out of bondage in Egypt. It did not exist prior to Moses.
~ The sabbatarian cults need to stop adding to the Word of God. They need to stop preaching another Jesus.
~ God is to be worshipped every day at all times. Not just some arbitrary day of the week.
~ Our rest as Christians is to be in Christ. Not just on some specific day.
~ Continue to discuss amongst yourselves...

Peace,

Leimeng

Flatulo Ergo Sum ~~~

(***Insert Personal One Liner Here***)

holo · Apr 13, 2005

It makes absolutely no difference what day the sabbath was:

Romans 7:6
But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.

Galatians 3:25
Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law.

Galatians 5:18
But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law.

Ephesians 2:15
by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace

JustinWindsor · Apr 13, 2005

holo said:
It makes absolutely no difference what day the sabbath was:

Romans 7:6
But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.

Galatians 3:25
Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law.

Galatians 5:18
But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law.

Ephesians 2:15
by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace

and Amen!

holo · Apr 13, 2005

2 Corinthians 3:6
He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenantnot of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

Hebrews 8:6
But the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs as the covenant of which he is mediator is superior to the old one, and it is founded on better promises.

Hebrews 8:7
For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another.

Hebrews 8:13
By calling this covenant new, he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear.

Hebrews 9:1
Now the first covenant had regulations for worship and also an earthly sanctuary.

Linux98 · Apr 13, 2005

sparklz said:
it says Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is Sabbath...where you shall not do any work. So it clearly says you shouldn't work on the Sabbath.

That's what I said: "not work".

And after having read the 4th commandment from your post I still don't see where it says we must worship on Saturday rather than Sunday. I also don't see where it says we can't worship on Wednesday either.

So why did you say we should worship on Saturday rather than on Sunday?

sparklz said:
If anyone here can show me a verse in the Bible where God Himself changed the Sabbath to Sunday, then I will gladly start worshipping on Sunday

In this quote you said that if the Sabbath was on Sunday that you would worship on Sunday. I say who cares what day you worship, neither Sunday nor Wednesday nor Saturday are prohibited; our church has services on each of those days -oh, I forgot we have Fridays too. If you want to remember the Sabbath by not working on Saturday I think you got a good case. But your case for not worshipping God on Sunday is poor.

holo · Apr 13, 2005

But Linux,
why are you so preoccupied with the sabbath anyway? You're not under the law.
Why not work and worship every day? You're free to regard one day over another, but it's not like you have to.

Linux98 · Apr 13, 2005

holo said:
But Linux,
why are you so preoccupied with the sabbath anyway? You're not under the law.
Why not work and worship every day? You're free to regard one day over another, but it's not like you have to.

Because I don't want to work on Saturday. Like Jesus said: The Sabbath was made for man. I take that to mean I am free to ride my bike in the trails on Sturdays with no guilt because God said I could; it's the Sabbath.

Mark 2:24-28

But the Pharisees said to Jesus, "They shouldn't be doing that! It's against the law to work by harvesting grain on the Sabbath." But Jesus replied, "Haven't you ever read in the Scriptures what King David did when he and his companions were hungry? He went into the house of God (during the days when Abiathar was high priest), ate the special bread reserved for the priests alone, and then gave some to his companions. That was breaking the law, too." Then he said to them, "The Sabbath was made to benefit people, and not people to benefit the Sabbath. And I, the Son of Man, am master even of the Sabbath!"

holo · Apr 13, 2005

Aha.
Good for you. Personally I don't feel like I need God's express approval for not working on a saturday, but that's just me

I'll turn down work on a thursday to go fishing, but then I'm in a position to do so with the way my job is organized. But I won't hesitate to work saturdays or sundays either if I don't have other plans. The thing is, I'm 100% free in regards to the law, including the 4th commandment. In fact, I'm dead to it.
It just so happens, of course, that when I live according to the Spirit I don't want to, say, steal from someone, so the law and the Spirit often agree. But not all the time. For example, the Spirit has said nothing to me about one day being different from another.

Linux98 · Apr 13, 2005

holo said:
I'll turn down work on a thursday to go fishing, but then I'm in a position to do so with the way my job is organized.

Maybe the Spirit is telling you to observe the Sabbath on Thursday...

Actually, if a Christian wants to follow the "LAW" as opposed to the "law" I think that is ok. If they observe the Sabbath by not working on Saturday because they feel they would otherwise be breaking the 4th then I believe they should not work on Saturday.

In addition, I think it shows their passion to make themselves pleasing to God. I highly approve of the Christian who is seeking righteousness. So the bumps along the way are just a natural process of our effort to learn how to please God.

As long as they understand they are saved by grace through faith and not by their works, then it's ok with me (though I might not be happy if they made a burnt offering in my back yard)

Cliff2 · Apr 13, 2005

holo said:
Aha.
Good for you. Personally I don't feel like I need God's express approval for not working on a saturday, but that's just me

I'll turn down work on a thursday to go fishing, but then I'm in a position to do so with the way my job is organized. But I won't hesitate to work saturdays or sundays either if I don't have other plans. The thing is, I'm 100% free in regards to the law, including the 4th commandment. In fact, I'm dead to it.
It just so happens, of course, that when I live according to the Spirit I don't want to, say, steal from someone, so the law and the Spirit often agree. But not all the time. For example, the Spirit has said nothing to me about one day being different from another.

I would suggest that you do not rely too much on what the spirit says to you. We have God's Word to look at. In most case when we have the Word God will not reveal His will to those who can read the Word to find out what should be done.

God's Word says to keep the 7th day holy. Why would the Spirit go ahead and say something that cannot be supported from God's Word?

holo · Apr 14, 2005

Cliff2 said:
I would suggest that you do not rely too much on what the spirit says to you. We have God's Word to look at. In most case when we have the Word God will not reveal His will to those who can read the Word to find out what should be done.

God's Word says to keep the 7th day holy. Why would the Spirit go ahead and say something that cannot be supported from God's Word?

God's word also says to stone adultresses.
The thing is reading it in context - it's good to know about the old covenant, but it's best to see how the NT speaks of the new one too.

About your first statement, I have to disagree totally. Of course we can be confused as to what the Spirit is telling us, but as a friend of mine puts it: "one of the worst problems with christianity today is the bible". The bible is God's word, we're supposed to read it, but just look at sects and history and all the arguing, it's obvious you can defend almost anything from the bible. It's no good when it's just words. God must reveal it to us. I think a lot of people need to lay down the letter a little and let the Spirit speak, because He may use the bible, but He doesn't depend on it, and He's hard to hear unless we shut up for a moment.

In any case I like to do a search on words like "law" in the pauline epistles on www.biblegateway.com

Cliff2 · Apr 14, 2005

holo said:
God's word also says to stone adultresses.
The thing is reading it in context - it's good to know about the old covenant, but it's best to see how the NT speaks of the new one too.

About your first statement, I have to disagree totally. Of course we can be confused as to what the Spirit is telling us, but as a friend of mine puts it: "one of the worst problems with christianity today is the bible". The bible is God's word, we're supposed to read it, but just look at sects and history and all the arguing, it's obvious you can defend almost anything from the bible. It's no good when it's just words. God must reveal it to us. I think a lot of people need to lay down the letter a little and let the Spirit speak, because He may use the bible, but He doesn't depend on it, and He's hard to hear unless we shut up for a moment.

In any case I like to do a search on words like "law" in the pauline epistles on www.biblegateway.com

When you do, share your results with us here.

holo · Apr 14, 2005

http://www.biblegateway.com/keyword...&searchtype=any&wholewordsonly=yes&bookset=10

Cliff2 · Apr 14, 2005

Ephesians 2:15
by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace,

1 Corinthians 9:21
To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God's law but am under Christ's law), so as to win those not having the law.

Galatians 2:16
know that a man is not justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by observing the law, because by observing the law no one will be justified

Galatians 3:11
Clearly no one is justified before God by the law, because, The righteous will live by faith. [ Hab. 2:4]

Romans 6:15
[ Slaves to Righteousness ] What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means!

These are just a few verses to show that by keeping the law a person will not earn their salvation. It is not saying the ten commandments have been changed.

sparklz · Apr 14, 2005

Linux98 said:
That's what I said: "not work".

And after having read the 4th commandment from your post I still don't see where it says we must worship on Saturday rather than Sunday. I also don't see where it says we can't worship on Wednesday either.

So why did you say we should worship on Saturday rather than on Sunday?

In this quote you said that if the Sabbath was on Sunday that you would worship on Sunday. I say who cares what day you worship, neither Sunday nor Wednesday nor Saturday are prohibited; our church has services on each of those days -oh, I forgot we have Fridays too. If you want to remember the Sabbath by not working on Saturday I think you got a good case. But your case for not worshipping God on Sunday is poor.
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sorry... my mistake. I thought you said you didn't see anything about not working.
Let me make one thing clear. I think you should worship God everyday, but God specifically asks us to keep the 7th day Holy. When He say's to keep it Holy, I think of it as only doing things that are toward God. (In praise of Him) So I set aside the 7th day for Him and Him only. (Friday sundown to Saturday sundown)

Cliff2 · Apr 14, 2005

sparklz said:
sorry... my mistake. I thought you said you didn't see anything about not working.
Let me make one thing clear. I think you should worship God everyday, but God specifically asks us to keep the 7th day Holy. When He say's to keep it Holy, I think of it as only doing things that are toward God. (In praise of Him) So I set aside the 7th day for Him and Him only. (Friday sundown to Saturday sundown)

Amen

JustinWindsor · Apr 14, 2005

...haven't been changed, and they never will. They will stand in eternity as the ministry of condemnation to all who will not believe. The Ten Commandments, along with the entirety of the Mosaic Law, have been abolished, as a means of salvation or sanctification, having been nailed to the cross. If you depend on any one point of the Law to keep you saved you are condemned by it's entirety.

There is only one ministry of salvation or sanctification. It most certainly is not any part of the Mosaic Law. It is the ministry of the New Covenant in Christ's Blood, the law written on our heart by the Holy Spirit. 2 Cor 3, Gal 3

Observance of a seventh day Sabbath (our Sabbath rest is Christ...Heb 4) is as absurd as taking a lamb to Church for the purpose of sacrificing blood. Christ has fulfilled the law, Christ was the final sacrifice, and His blood takes care of every point, if we have faith.

The requirement that man has placed on himself and others to observe a Sabbath Saturday or Sunday is diametrically opposed to the body of Paul's clear teaching on the matter of the Law.

May God Bless

Linux98 · Apr 15, 2005

JustinWindsor said:
Observance of a seventh day Sabbath (our Sabbath rest is Christ...Heb 4) is as absurd as taking a lamb to Church for the purpose of sacrificing blood. Christ has fulfilled the law, Christ was the final sacrifice, and His blood takes care of every point, if we have faith.

I disagree. Sacrificing a lamb would be an afront to the sacrifice of Jesus. The thought of animal sacrifice to atone for sins after the work of Jesus is completely evil in my mind.

However, you may observe the Sabbath as a memorial to the work that God did on the cross. I think it would be perfectly fine to sit your family down every Saturday and say: we do not work on Saturday as a memorial to acknowledge the fact that we cannot work for our salvation and that all the work was done by Jesus.

We are not bound by the law but I think we should observe the Spirit of the law. If a SDA feels he must observe the Sabbath on Saturday to be obedient to the word of God I think that is perfectly fine.

Linux98 · Apr 15, 2005

sparklz said:
Let me make one thing clear. I think you should worship God everyday, but God specifically asks us to keep the 7th day Holy. When He say's to keep it Holy, I think of it as only doing things that are toward God. (In praise of Him) So I set aside the 7th day for Him and Him only. (Friday sundown to Saturday sundown)

That's fine if you set aside Saturday for God. (I say that because it sounds like you know that Jesus did the real work and you are just trying to be pleasing to God out of gratitude.)

But I would say, don't be afraid to go to church on Sunday. Just because you worship on Saturday doesn't mean you can't worship more than one day a week with other Christians in fellowship. Our church offers services 4 times a week, and I'm glad because it gives me the opportunity to recharge more than just once a week.

Cliff2 · Apr 15, 2005

Linux98 said:
That's fine if you set aside Saturday for God. (I say that because it sounds like you know that Jesus did the real work and you are just trying to be pleasing to God out of gratitude.)

But I would say, don't be afraid to go to church on Sunday. Just because you worship on Saturday doesn't mean you can't worship more than one day a week with other Christians in fellowship. Our church offers services 4 times a week, and I'm glad because it gives me the opportunity to recharge more than just once a week.

By all means go and worship as many time during the week as you need to. Even Wednesday night for prayer meeting.

At this stage no one has received tha mark of the beast. We do not know when the anti-christ power will enforce it. Maybe sooner than we all think.

Why worry about the Ten Commandments, if you are disregarding the Sabbath?

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