Why worry about the Ten Commandments, if you are disregarding the Sabbath?

Cliff2 · May 4, 2005

deu58 said:
Hi Cliff

Except the food laws right cliff, Those couple of pages are still left outside the ark, Everything else though that does not fit SDA doctrine is gone though right?

The way you slice and dice the the Scripture and the law to to fit your church doctrines just boggles the mind

It is either all there or it is all gone, The law is one unit of 613 commandments, Either we are under the authority of the Law of Moses or we are under the authority of the law of Christ

As I have said before you SDAs act like there is only one covenant, The old testament, The new testament seems to just be a commentary on how to keep the old testament rather than a new covenant to your church,

yours in Christ
deu 58

Again you are making claims about SDA's that are wrong. We know there are two covenants.The New Testament is not a new covenant, the new covenant is the everlastibg covenant, which has been there forever.

Hebrews 9:4

"4Which had the golden censer, and the ark of the covenant overlaid round about with gold, wherein was the golden pot that had manna, and Aaron's rod that budded, and the tables of the covenant"

That is all that went inside the ark. Notice that the "tables of the covenant" was inside and not outside the ark.

Exodus 25:15

"15 The poles are to remain in the rings of this ark; they are not to be removed. 16 Then put in the ark the Testimony, which I will give you."

Deuteronomy 10:5

"Then I came back down the mountain and put the tablets in the ark I had made, as the LORD commanded me, and they are there now."

Now we can look at the law that Moses wrote under the direction of God.

Deuteronomy 31:24-26

24So it was, when Moses had completed writing the words of this law in a book, when they were finished, 25that Moses commanded the Levites, who bore the ark of the covenant of the LORD, saying: 26"Take this Book of the Law, and put it beside the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there as a witness against you;

This law was put beside the ark, not inside like the law that God wrote. Also see how this was to be a witness against them. God's ten commandments were not like that at all.

Cliff2 · May 4, 2005

Colossians 2:14

"14having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross."

This is what was nailed to the cross, see how the language is very similar.

Deuteronomy 31:24-26

"24So it was, when Moses had completed writing the words of this law in a book, when they were finished, 25that Moses commanded the Levites, who bore the ark of the covenant of the LORD, saying: 26"Take this Book of the Law, and put it beside the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there as a witness against you"

Michael5084 · May 4, 2005

deu58 said:
Hi Michael5084

???????????????

This topic is about keeping the Jewish Sabbath of the Mosaic law. You say we can keep most of the commandments except 1,

So which commandment are you talking about????????

yours in Christ
deu 58

So, you are talking about going to church on Saturday?
I was talking about people having problems keeping some commandments.
Sunday is the day most people keep the Sabbath and they do keep the Sabbath.

GypsyBella · May 4, 2005

Michael5084 said:
So, you are talking about going to church on Saturday?
I was talking about people having problems keeping some commandments.
Sunday is the day most people keep the Sabbath and they do keep the Sabbath.

People who rest on Saturday keep the Sabbath. People who go to church on Sunday observe the "Lord's Day", as the RCC puts it.

deu58 · May 4, 2005

Hi Cliff

The New Testament is not a new covenant,

Cliff this is very close to blasphemy,

Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

Ga 4:22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.

Ga 4:23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.

Ga 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.

That is all that went inside the ark. Notice that the "tables of the covenant" was inside and not outside the ark.

2co 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

The Greek word for Commandments,
ejntolhv Entole (en-tol-ay');
Word Origin: Greek, Noun Feminine, Strong #: 1785

an order, command, charge, precept, injunction
that which is prescribed to one by reason of his office
a commandment
a prescribed rule in accordance with which a thing is done
a precept relating to lineage, of the Mosaic precept concerning the priesthood
ethically used of the commandments in the Mosaic law or Jewish tradition
KJV Word Usage and Count
commandment 69
precept 2

I have made no false claims about Adventism and you have not yet proved that I have, You say that the book outside the Ark is abolished yet you demand that the dietary laws still apply because they were not abolished, You say the New Testament is not a covenant, You say the binding contract that gave power to Book that was outside the Ark still exist failing to realize that those very stone tablets ARE the old covenant, Not the book that was outside the ark, The book outside the ark were instructions on how to be obedient to the Covenant that was contained in the ark, The book was not the old covenant. Moses tells us exactly what the old covenant consisted of

De 5:2 The LORD our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.

De 5:3 The LORD made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.

De 5:4 The LORD talked with you face to face in the mount out of the midst of the fire,

De 5:5 (I stood between the LORD and you at that time, to show you the word of the LORD: for ye were afraid by reason of the fire, and went not up into the mount saying,

De 5:6 I am the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.

De 5:7 Thou shalt have none other gods before me.

De 5:8 Thou shalt not make thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the waters beneath the earth:

De 5:9 Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me,

De 5:10 And showing mercy unto thousands of them that love me and keep my commandments.

De 5:11 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain: for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.

De 5:12 Keep the sabbath day to sanctify it, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee.

De 5:13 Six days thou shalt labour, and do all thy work:

De 5:14 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thine ox, nor thine ass, nor any of thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates; that thy manservant and thy maidservant may rest as well as thou.

De 5:15 And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that the LORD thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore the LORD thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day.

De 5:16 Honour thy father and thy mother, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee; that thy days may be prolonged, and that it may go well with thee, in the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.

De 5:17 Thou shalt not kill.

De 5:18 Neither shalt thou commit adultery.

De 5:19 Neither shalt thou steal.

De 5:20 Neither shalt thou bear false witness against thy neighbour.

De 5:21 Neither shalt thou desire thy neighbour's wife, neither shalt thou covet thy neighbour's house, his field, or his manservant, or his maidservant, his ox, or his ass, or any thing that is thy neighbour's.

De 5:22 These words the LORD spake unto all your assembly in the mount out of the midst of the fire, of the cloud, and of the thick darkness, with a great voice: and he added no more. And he wrote them in two tables of stone, and delivered them unto me.

This is the Old Testament covenant, Not the book that was outside the ark,

yours in Christ
deu 58

Cliff2 · May 4, 2005

deu58 Hi Cliff

Cliff this is very close to blasphemy,

Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel

I suppose now you are going to tell me that before the cross there was a different way of Salvation.

I do not disagree with the verses you quoted.

You like to take my words and then twist them to suit your own version of the gospel.

Not only that you keep saying SDA's believe this and that, most of the time your acusations are no where near the mark.

The new covenant is the everlasting covenant as found written in the old testament.

Isaiah 24:5
The earth is defiled by its people; they have disobeyed the laws, violated the statutes and broken the everlasting covenant.

That is the new covenant.

Isaiah 55:3
Give ear and come to me; hear me, that your soul may live. I will make an everlasting covenant with you, my faithful love promised to David.

Isaiah 56:4
For this is what the LORD says: "To the eunuchs who keep my Sabbaths, who choose what pleases me and hold fast to my covenant-

Isaiah 56:6
And foreigners who bind themselves to the LORD to serve him, to love the name of the LORD, and to worship him, all who keep the Sabbath without desecrating it and who hold fast to my covenant-

Jeremiah 31:33
"This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after that time," declares the LORD. "I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.

I am sorry to say that you fail to understand what the old and the new covenants are about.

This is the old covenant

Exodus 19:8
The people all responded together, "We will do everything the LORD has said." So Moses brought their answer back to the LORD.

They wanted to obey in their own ways and strength. In other words it is salavation by works. The new covenant is salavation by faith in Jesus Christ (Righteousness by Faith)

Cain and Able showed us the difference between the old and the enw covenant. One tried to do it his own way and the other believed in God's way.

The people before the cross looked forward to it and we look back to it. Salvation has never changed, it is belief in the shed blood of Jesus Christ.

deu58 · May 4, 2005

Hi Cliff

I suppose now you are going to tell me that before the cross there was a different way of Salvation.

Click to expand...

No. Christ has always been the way to salvation, but before the cross there was a different set of rules governing forgiveness of sins,

You like to take my words and then twist them to suit your own version of the gospel.

Not only that you keep saying SDA's believe this and that, most of the time your acusations are no where near the mark.

I have offered you the opportunity to prove that I am wrong about that while even staying within the context of this Sabbath thread, and apparently you have declined to do so,

The new covenant is the everlasting covenant as found written in the old testament.

Click to expand...

Every covenant mentioned in the OT was sealed by the blood of animals, You are exalting covenants that were sealed with the blood of animals over the New Covenant that was sealed in the blood Christ, We saw hints and shadows of the New covenant to come but it was not yet in place until the crucifixion

Heb 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

Heb 9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

Heb 9:16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.

You need a mediator to establish a covenant

Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

Heb 13:20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,

Isaiah 24:5
The earth is defiled by its people; they have disobeyed the laws, violated the statutes and broken the everlasting covenant.

The everlasting covenant spoken of here is the Law of Moses, It was a conditional covenant,

De 31:16 And the LORD said unto Moses, Behold, thou shalt sleep with thy fathers; and this people will rise up, and go a whoring after the gods of the strangers of the land, whither they go to be among them, and will forsake me, and break my covenant which I have made with them.

De 31:17 Then my anger shall be kindled against them in that day, and I will forsake them, and I will hide my face from them, and they shall be devoured, and many evils and troubles shall befall them; so that they will say in that day, Are not these evils come upon us, because our God is not among us?

Ex 40:13 And thou shalt put upon Aaron the holy garments, and anoint him, and sanctify him; that he may minister unto me in the priest's office.

Ex 40:14 And thou shalt bring his sons, and clothe them with coats:

Ex 40:15 And thou shalt anoint them, as thou didst anoint their father, that they may minister unto me in the priest's office: for their anointing shall surely be an everlasting priesthood throughout their generations.

Are the Levites still the recognized priesthood today?

Heb 7:11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

Heb 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

No they are not

Le 24:4 He shall order the lamps upon the pure candlestick before the LORD continually.

Le 24:5 And thou shalt take fine flour, and bake twelve cakes thereof: two tenth deals shall be in one cake.

Le 24:6 And thou shalt set them in two rows, six on a row, upon the pure table before the LORD.

Le 24:7 And thou shalt put pure frankincense upon each row, that it may be on the bread for a memorial, even an offering made by fire unto the LORD.

Le 24:8 Every sabbath he shall set it in order before the LORD continually, being taken from the children of Israel by an everlasting covenant.

Are you doing this on the Sabbath? God says it supposed to be everlasting, No you are not, No SDA does,

That is the new covenant.

Isaiah 55:3
Give ear and come to me; hear me, that your soul may live. I will make an everlasting covenant with you, my faithful love promised to David.

Click to expand...

How do you get I will to mean I have?

I am sorry to say that you fail to understand what the old and the new covenants are about.

Click to expand...

I have failed to understand? This is what you said the old covenant is,

This is the old covenant

Exodus 19:8
The people all responded together, "We will do everything the LORD has said." So Moses brought their answer back to the LORD.

They wanted to obey in their own ways and strength. In other words it is salavation by works. The new covenant is salavation by faith in Jesus Christ (Righteousness by Faith)

Apparently to you the response of the people was the old covenant, This is what the bible says the old covenant is.

De 9:11 And it came to pass at the end of forty days and forty nights, that the LORD gave me the two tables of stone, even the tables of the covenant.

De 9:15 So I turned and came down from the mount, and the mount burned with fire: and the two tables of the covenant were in my two hands.
These are the very same stones Paul speaks of,

2co 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

And what do you mean any way by saying they wanted to obey by their own ways and strengths???? They were asked a question by God,

Ex 19:5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:

Ex 19:6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

And they agreed to do it, This was simply their response to Gods offer of entering into a covenant relationship with him,

Cain and Able showed us the difference between the old and the enw covenant. One tried to do it his own way and the other believed in God's way.

The people before the cross looked forward to it and we look back to it. Salvation has never changed, it is belief in the shed blood of Jesus Christ.

Click to expand...

So how do you equate this with Cain and Abel??? Plus the reason Cains sacrifice was rejected was because he offered it with an impure heart,

Ge 4:5 But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.

Ge 4:6 And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?

Ge 4:7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

There is nothing in the Scripture that says the Sacrificial system was already ordained by God and given to Adam and his sons, You have to go to Patriarchs and Prophets to find that teaching, It is not in Gods Word, Or if it is then here is another Golden opportunity for you to prove me wrong,

These were free will offerings,

yours in Christ
deu 58

BrightCandle · May 28, 2005

deu58 said:
Hi dr bubba

yes this true, To the Jews and Jesus there were 613 commandments, Not just ten, Nor did they view the law in three sections like we do today, It was one seamless unit, All the commandments are interlocked so either they all stand together or they all fall together, That is where the idea of if you break one commandment you brak them all,

yours in Christ
deu 58

Jesus did not recognize all of the laws that the Jews kept, do you not remember where Jesus said to the Pharisees "in vain do they worship me, keeping the commandments of men?". Jesus kept the Sabbath as it was meant to be kept, not how the Jews kept it in the first century. That is why he caused so much controversy among the Jews, because he healed people on the Sabbath, and brought messages of hope to those who were downtrodden. His life and teachings were often in conflict with the man made traditions, and man made laws that the Jews had added to God's holy law, that made it a burden, not a delight. The Sabbath was meant to be a blessing to mankind, that is why Jesus said that: "the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath." Note, that Jesus nor the Apostles never said: "The first day was made for man, not man for the first day". The first day of week was always a work day not a holy day, and Jesus nor the Apostles ever refer to it as a Sabbath or holy day., just by its numerical designation. It was only centuries later that misguieded men, tried to make the first day to be the new Sabbath.

Oblio · May 28, 2005

The first day of week was always a work day not a holy day, and Jesus nor the Apostles ever refer to it as a Sabbath or holy day., just by its numerical designation. It was only centuries later that misguieded men, tried to make the first day to be the new Sabbath.

centuries later ??

Within a hundred years of Christ:

CHAP. LXVII.--WEEKLY WORSHIP OF THE CHRISTIANS.

And we afterwards continually remind each other of these things. And the wealthy among us help the needy; and we always keep together; and for all things wherewith we are supplied, we bless the Maker of all through His Son Jesus Christ, and through the Holy Ghost. And on the day called Sunday,(1) all who live in cities or in the country gather together to one place, and the memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read, as long as time permits; then, when the reader has ceased, the president verbally instructs, and exhorts to the imitation of these good things. Then we all rise together and pray, and, as we before said, when our prayer is ended, bread and wine and water are brought, and the president in like manner offers prayers and thanksgivings, according to his ability,(2) and the people assent, saying Amen; and there is a distribution to each, and a participation of that over which thanks have been given,(3) and to those who are absent a portion is sent by the deacons. And they who are well to do, and willing, give what each thinks fit; and what is collected is deposited with the president, who succours the orphans and widows and those who, through sickness or any other cause, are in want, and those who are in bonds and the strangers sojourning among us, and in a word takes care of all who are in need. But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead. For He was crucified on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday); and on the day after that of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His apostles and disciples, He taught them these things, which we have submitted to you also for your consideration.

Caissie · May 28, 2005

BrightCandle said:
Jesus did not recognize all of the laws that the Jews kept, do you not remember where Jesus said to the Pharisees "in vain do they worship me, keeping the commandments of men?"

You are right, he did not recognize all the "Jewish" laws. But he did recognize all the laws given by God (which were these 613 commandments). Obviously, some of those commandments did not apply to Jesus (for instance, since Jesus never had leprosy, he never had to cry out, "leper, leper", when someone approached him). But the ones that did apply, He obeyed.

Svt4Him · May 28, 2005

In case this wasn't posted yet, I guess a SDA would also like to judge us on food, or are you a newer generation SDA who now thinks it's ok to meat?:

11In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, qvb://0/anchor/1212buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. qvb://0/anchor/1313And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, qvb://0/anchor/1414having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. qvb://0/anchor/1515Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it.

qvb://0/anchor/1616So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, qvb://0/anchor/1717which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ.

Caissie · May 28, 2005

Svt4Him said:
In case this wasn't posted yet, I guess a SDA would also like to judge us on food, or are you a newer generation SDA who now thinks it's ok to meat?:

If this is directed to me....I am not SDA. (Never was, never will be, but I do keep the sabbath. Except the sabbath I keep is from Friday at sundown to Saturday at sundown.)

deu58 · May 28, 2005

Hi Svt4him

Svt4Him said:
In case this wasn't posted yet, I guess a SDA would also like to judge us on food, or are you a newer generation SDA who now thinks it's ok to meat?:

All SDA's whether Vegetarian or not are supposed to apply the Levitiacal food laws, Their Prophetess taught that it is sin to eat certain foods and you will be held accountable for waht you eat in the judgment,

Spalding-Magan Pg 40
If appetite, which should be strictly guarded and controlled, is indulged to the injury of the body, the penalty of transgression will surely be the result. As nature's laws are transgressed, mind and soul become enfeebled. {SpM 40.3}
Christians should regard a transgression of these laws as a sin against God, to be accounted for in the day of Judgment, when every case shall come in review before God. {SpM 40.4}

yours in Christ
deu 58

Cliff2 · May 28, 2005

Caissie said:
If this is directed to me....I am not SDA. (Never was, never will be, but I do keep the sabbath. Except the sabbath I keep is from Friday at sundown to Saturday at sundown.)

That is exactly the same times as I keep the Sabbath.

BrightCandle · May 28, 2005

Oblio said:
centuries later ??

Within a hundred years of Christ:

CHAP. LXVII.--WEEKLY WORSHIP OF THE CHRISTIANS.

And we afterwards continually remind each other of these things. And the wealthy among us help the needy; and we always keep together; and for all things wherewith we are supplied, we bless the Maker of all through His Son Jesus Christ, and through the Holy Ghost. And on the day called Sunday,(1) all who live in cities or in the country gather together to one place, and the memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read, as long as time permits; then, when the reader has ceased, the president verbally instructs, and exhorts to the imitation of these good things. Then we all rise together and pray, and, as we before said, when our prayer is ended, bread and wine and water are brought, and the president in like manner offers prayers and thanksgivings, according to his ability,(2) and the people assent, saying Amen; and there is a distribution to each, and a participation of that over which thanks have been given,(3) and to those who are absent a portion is sent by the deacons. And they who are well to do, and willing, give what each thinks fit; and what is collected is deposited with the president, who succours the orphans and widows and those who, through sickness or any other cause, are in want, and those who are in bonds and the strangers sojourning among us, and in a word takes care of all who are in need. But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead. For He was crucified on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday); and on the day after that of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His apostles and disciples, He taught them these things, which we have submitted to you also for your consideration.
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Some of the early church fathers often put words into Jesus' mouth that were never recorded by the writers of the Gospels. If Sunday worship was a teaching of Jesus why would not have Luke, Mark, Matthew, or at least Paul recorded it the books that they wrote in the Bible?

The reasoning of some of the early church fathers often sounds like New Age mistical writing when they speak of planets (Saturn) and of the Sun. It shows us now, how much Greek and Roman pagan thought was already gaining influence on their thinking.

Svt4Him · May 28, 2005

Caissie said:
If this is directed to me....I am not SDA. (Never was, never will be, but I do keep the sabbath. Except the sabbath I keep is from Friday at sundown to Saturday at sundown.)

Nope, sorry. More of a SDA thing, but I didn't read all the pages, so I was unaware of the posts before mine.

Caissie · May 28, 2005

Cliff,

Cliff2 said:
That is exactly the same times as I keep the Sabbath.

Oh, pardon my ignorance. I did not know that SDA's keep the sabbath from sundown to sundown. Do they (is this SDA official doctrine)? I know I was talking to one SDA one time, he kept Saturday as the Sabbath, but never heard about a sundown to sundown Sabbath (but he did not know much about the SDAs or the scriptures either....I think he had only been an non-attending SDA for a few years). Just wondering, was he just ignorant of SDA doctrine?

deu58 · May 28, 2005

Hi Bright Candle

BrightCandle said:
Some of the early church fathers often put words into Jesus' mouth that were never recorded by the writers of the Gospels. If Sunday worship was a teaching of Jesus why would not have Luke, Mark, Matthew, or at least Paul recorded it the books that they wrote in the Bible?

The reasoning of some of the early church fathers often sounds like New Age mistical writing when they speak of planets (Saturn) and of the Sun. It shows us now, how much Greek and Roman pagan thought was already gaining influence on their thinking.

Your Prophetess put enough words in the Saviors mouth to fill several large libraries!!!

As to New Age, does not your Prophetess teach that there are many races on unfallen worlds that are watching us like some kind of TV show?

Desire of Ages, Ch 3, The fullness of time, Page 37

With intense interest the unfallen worlds had watched to see Jehovah arise, and sweep away the inhabitants of the earth. And if God should do this, Satan was ready to carry out his plan for securing to himself the allegiance of heavenly beings.

Did she not claim to see and speak to Enoch on another planet?

Early Writings, Experience and Views, pg 40
Then I was taken to a world which had seven moons. There I saw good old Enoch, who had been translated. On his right arm he bore a glorious palm, and on each leaf was written "Victory." Around his head was a dazzling white wreath, and leaves on the wreath, and in the middle of each leaf was written "Purity," and around the wreath were stones of various colors, that shone brighter than the stars, and cast a reflection upon the letters and magnified them. On the back part of his head was a bow that confined the wreath, and upon the bow was written "Holiness." Above the wreath was a lovely crown that shone brighter than the sun. I asked him if this was the place he was taken to from the earth. He said, "It is not; the city is my home, and I have come to visit this place." He moved about the place as if perfectly at home.

New Age? Can you say ascended master's? Or spiritual guides ? our space brothers on other worlds?
yours in Christ
deu 58

Cliff2 · May 29, 2005

deu58 said:
Hi Bright Candle

Your Prophetess put enough words in the Saviors mouth to fill several large libraries!!!

As to New Age, does not your Prophetess teach that there are many races on unfallen worlds that are watching us like some kind of TV show?

Desire of Ages, Ch 3, The fullness of time, Page 37

With intense interest the unfallen worlds had watched to see Jehovah arise, and sweep away the inhabitants of the earth. And if God should do this, Satan was ready to carry out his plan for securing to himself the allegiance of heavenly beings.

Did she not claim to see and speak to Enoch on another planet?

Early Writings, Experience and Views, pg 40
Then I was taken to a world which had seven moons. There I saw good old Enoch, who had been translated. On his right arm he bore a glorious palm, and on each leaf was written "Victory." Around his head was a dazzling white wreath, and leaves on the wreath, and in the middle of each leaf was written "Purity," and around the wreath were stones of various colors, that shone brighter than the stars, and cast a reflection upon the letters and magnified them. On the back part of his head was a bow that confined the wreath, and upon the bow was written "Holiness." Above the wreath was a lovely crown that shone brighter than the sun. I asked him if this was the place he was taken to from the earth. He said, "It is not; the city is my home, and I have come to visit this place." He moved about the place as if perfectly at home.

New Age? Can you say ascended master's? Or spiritual guides ? our space brothers on other worlds?
yours in Christ
deu 58

Why don't you quote the Bible?

We do, so that we are on a level playing fiels, why don't you stick to that as well.

deu58 · May 29, 2005

Hi Cliff

Cliff2 said:
Why don't you quote the Bible?

We do, so that we are on a level playing fiels, why don't you stick to that as well.

Because my purpose is to show that SDA doctrine is not based on the Bible at all, An d what do you mean a level playing field? Who said you can not post from the Spirit of Prophecy your self?

And if she is really a prophet of God why should you get upset about seeing her words posted here? If my church had a real prophet of God who had an important message for the church at large and I believed that message I would try to get that message in front of as many people as possible,

I would want them to know who this prophet is and how they could get the writings of this prophet so they could study them themselves,

But instead you SDA's act like she is more of an embarrasment to you, I have noticed that it is not just me but anybody who brings up Ellen White, You Sda's just do not like that,

The problem is cliff I am discussing Adventism here, Ellen White is the mind, heart and soul of Adventism, With out her there is no Adventism,

You SDA's can say that the church fathers sound like new age teachers and put words in the mouths of Jesus and the biblical writers but if I show that your Prophetess not only did the same but did it on a much grander scale you get upset?

yours in Christ
deu 58

Why worry about the Ten Commandments, if you are disregarding the Sabbath?

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