Why worry about global warming?

[Saving Hawaii]

Depends on what you call evil. If you consider anything that would harm people or harm the earth then there is a lot of evil in science. Weapons of mass destruction, air and water pollution all are harmful.

Alfred Nobel, the man whom after the Nobel Prize is named, surely cursed his most famous invention: dynamite. He once suggested that: "My dynamite will sooner lead to peace than a thousand world conventions. As soon as men will find that in one instant, whole armies can be utterly destroyed, they surely will abide by golden peace." You and I realize that he was catastrophically wrong... and so did Nobel. The Nobel Prize was born largely as a recognition of the evils of his greatest invention.

 

[mzungu]

Hello, My name is Inigo Montoya.... - YouTube

 

[RickG]

Your display of happiness is kinda slow in coming, is it not?

So, in the few days I have joined this site I have discovered a person whose main purpose here is to avoid answering any questions posed specifically for you.

I thought this was a discussion forum. If you wish to actually participate in honest discussion we can get along quite well despite any differences we may have. I am not here to play games or to try to see how many people I can get riled up.

So, let's get back to the topic of this thread, global warming and I'll try to meet you half way by answering the same questions I ask first.

I understand that global warming is occurring and have studied and continue to study the scientific literature in the many fields of climatology and paleoclimatology. I understand the published research and support the findings. Global warming has been occurring since the beginning of the industrial revolution and is increasing at an increasing rate, especially over the past 30 years. It will become more of an increasing problem in the future, especially for our grandchildren.

Now, would you please express your thoughts concerning global warming. Thanks.

 

[Chalnoth]

I understand that global warming is occurring and have studied and continue to study the scientific literature in the many fields of climatology and paleoclimatology. I understand the published research and support the findings. Global warming has been occurring since the beginning of the industrial revolution and is increasing at an increasing rate, especially over the past 30 years. It will become more of an increasing problem in the future, especially for our grandchildren.

Now, would you please express your thoughts concerning global warming. Thanks.

Well, that is probably not the case. As near as I can tell, the effects of human activity on surface temperatures have been exceedingly minimal up until about 1970-1980 or so. Before that time, the Sun was the primary driver of climate variability.

 

[Greg1234]

Now, would you please express your thoughts concerning global warming. Thanks.

It's real bad.

Seeing is Believing - YouTube

University of East Anglia emails: the most contentious quotes - Telegraph

Climate Cooling, the Other Side of Climate Change Science: Global Cooling

 

[mzungu]

It's real bad.

Seeing is Believing - YouTube
http://www.climatecooling.org/

The funny thing is that an increase in CO2 raises the global temperature and the same thing that happens to plants also happens to hurricanes! CO2 increase may be beneficial to plants but the resulting climate change will wreak havoc. ENJOY:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTr5m0dFn9A&feature=related

 

[Chalnoth]

The funny thing is that an increase in CO2 raises the global temperature and the same thing that happens to plants also happens to hurricanes! CO2 increase may be beneficial to plants but the resulting climate change will wreak havoc.

While the CO2 itself is beneficial to plants, the effects of the warming most certainly are not. Global warming, for example, causes more floods (by increasing the fraction of water that falls in stronger storms) and also causes more droughts (for the same reason: more water falling in stronger storms means water falls less frequently).

I mean, if you (This is to Greg) think global warming is so good for plants, then why have food prices shot up so much this year?

 

[Tinker Grey]

I mean, if you (This is to Greg) think global warming is so good for plants, then why have food prices shot up so much this year?

Because, obviously, we aren't having global warming!

 

[RickG]

Well, that is probably not the case. As near as I can tell, the effects of human activity on surface temperatures have been exceedingly minimal up until about 1970-1980 or so. Before that time, the Sun was the primary driver of climate variability.

From the period 1940 to 1970 we saw huge industrialization due to WWII and the boom years thereafter. Also during that period, sulfate emissions were not regulated. Sulfates are aerosols which cause cooling. In other words, the sulfate emissions were actually masking the warming trend that had already begin in 1880. In the mid 1970's sulfate emissions were regulated and within a very short time the sulfate aerosols were precipitated from the atmosphere and the masking effect was eliminated. That's one reason why the steepest increase in global mean temperatures (GMT's) became so prominent.

Also consider that for the past 600,000 years the atmospheric CO2 content has not exceeded 280 ppmv. Since 1880 the CO2 content has increased to just over 390 ppmv, which is a full 40% increase.

As for the sun, yes it does have the greatest effect on our climate. However the sun has decreased in total solar irradiation (TSI) over the past 30 to 40 years. Some of the increase in GAT from the mid 1800's up until around 1940 was due to a slight increase in TSI but was responsible for no more than 30%, if that, of the warming through that period. Ice ages, at least for the past 800,000 years can be explained with Milankovitch Cycles. That is variation in the Earth's elliptical orbit, precession, and obliquity. So approximately every 100,000 years a combination of those cycles puts the Earth in a situation where there is less TSI.

 

[Chalnoth]

From the period 1940 to 1970 we saw huge industrialization due to WWII and the boom years thereafter. Also during that period, sulfate emissions were not regulated. Sulfates are aerosols which cause cooling. In other words, the sulfate emissions were actually masking the warming trend that had already begin in 1880. In the mid 1970's sulfate emissions were regulated and within a very short time the sulfate aerosols were precipitated from the atmosphere and the masking effect was eliminated. That's one reason why the steepest increase in global mean temperatures (GMT's) became so prominent.

Maybe, but the increase in CO2 has not been uniform. It has accelerated significant in recent years, so it's also the case that the increase in the greenhouse effect was just plain smaller.

Though yes, it is true that we are now paying the price for carbon emitted over a hundred years ago, most of the damage has been done relatively recently.

As for the sun, yes it does have the greatest effect on our climate. However the sun has decreased in total solar irradiation (TSI) over the past 30 to 40 years. Some of the increase in GAT from the mid 1800's up until around 1940 was due to a slight increase in TSI but was responsible for no more than 30%, if that, of the warming through that period. Ice ages, at least for the past 800,000 years can be explained with Milankovitch Cycles. That is variation in the Earth's elliptical orbit, precession, and obliquity. So approximately every 100,000 years a combination of those cycles puts the Earth in a situation where there is less TSI.

Well, just to qualify that slightly, variability in solar irradiance has, for most of the time in the past, been the primary driver of climate variability. This has ceased to be the case in recent decades. The Sun is most definitely does not have the greatest impact on our current situation.

I'm pretty sure you meant that, I just felt it could use clarification

 

[RickG]

Maybe, but the increase in CO2 has not been uniform. It has accelerated significant in recent years, so it's also the case that the increase in the greenhouse effect was just plain smaller.

Though yes, it is true that we are now paying the price for carbon emitted over a hundred years ago, most of the damage has been done relatively recently.


Well, just to qualify that slightly, variability in solar irradiance has, for most of the time in the past, been the primary driver of climate variability. This has ceased to be the case in recent decades. The Sun is most definitely does not have the greatest impact on our current situation.

I'm pretty sure you meant that, I just felt it could use clarification

Actually CO2 has increased on average by 2ppm per year.

Source: Scrippts CO2 Program.

I would post a graph and links but I just got an error message that I can't do that until my post count reaches 50. Problems of a newbie I guess.

 

[dad]

If you enjoy fighting imaginary windmills, then by all means, carry on brother.

So those that do not believe evolving started in the pond chase windmills. Got it. Reason then would be defined by insane blasphemous baseless belief in an unproven past state. So what was in the pond..a frog?

 

[mzungu]

So those that do not believe evolving started in the pond chase windmills. Got it. Reason then would be defined by insane blasphemous baseless belief in an unproven past state. So what was in the pond..a frog?

You have the audacity to ask for evidence when you have failed to provide us with any!

If you want to play then play by the rules!

 

[Greg1234]

Because, obviously, we aren't having global warming!

So how do you explain Washington D.C? Or are you being sarcastic?

 

[Jazer]

Problems of a newbie I guess.

Most of the newbie rules is to be sure they understand the anti flaming rules. In this case though it could be to avoid spam. People who sign on to paste advertisements all over the place.

 

[Jazer]

While the CO2 itself is beneficial to plants, the effects of the warming most certainly are not.

You are both saying the same thing. Global warming can be a mixed blessing. You do have a longer growing season. But some plants cannot adjust to even one degree. For example some of the plants in the coral reef are dieing off because of the one degree increase in temps. King Crabs are moving into areas that were to cold before and eating so much as to upset the balance of that eco system. But for people who like to eat King Crabs the harvest is substantial. That does not seem to help the price though. They are still 300 feet down in what is cold water to us. So it is not all that easy to harvest them.

 

[Belk]

So how do you explain Washington D.C? Or are you being sarcastic?

I believe the answer to that question lies in the emoticon at the end of the sentence.

 

[Split Rock]

So those that do not believe evolving started in the pond chase windmills. Got it. Reason then would be defined by insane blasphemous baseless belief in an unproven past state. So what was in the pond..a frog?

Just out of curiosity, dad... do you ever get tired of repeating the same old tripe here over and over again? You never convince anyone of anything, other than maybe that you are nuts, or that creationists are all nuts. Is it just an ego thing?

 

[Chalnoth]

You are both saying the same thing. Global warming can be a mixed blessing. You do have a longer growing season. But some plants cannot adjust to even one degree. For example some of the plants in the coral reef are dieing off because of the one degree increase in temps. King Crabs are moving into areas that were to cold before and eating so much as to upset the balance of that eco system. But for people who like to eat King Crabs the harvest is substantial. That does not seem to help the price though. They are still 300 feet down in what is cold water to us. So it is not all that easy to harvest them.

No, the problem is that change in any direction makes it hard on the plants and animals in any ecosystem. So it's not a "mixed blessing". It's change, which always places stress on ecosystems.

Now, way down the road, when the climate has stabilized again, some plants are likely to survive and thrive. But they're a minority of those around today.

 

[RickG]

Most of the newbie rules is to be sure they understand the anti flaming rules. In this case though it could be to avoid spam. People who sign on to paste advertisements all over the place.

And honestly, I support that policy. I hope as well that the forums are well monitored and rules upheld.