- Oct 2, 2020
- 28,915
- 15,596
- Country
- United States
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Single
Upvote
0
Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
Unorthodox doctrine is in error by default.Maybe, but posting what you did Doesn’t show where Sabbat blessings made an error.
I appreciate that you admit reliance upon EGW instead of denying it and trying to hide it like most of the others do.Unless you learn the original languages of the Bible, you are relying on the translation of uninspired translators to do a good job of giving you God's word and not their own uninspired view of God's word. Our prophetess, Ellen G. White, encouraged us by revealing the Bible's design to overcome these obstacles.
Brother, her inspiration is the same as Paul's correction of the Sabbath in the letter to the Hebrews about another "day" of rest without her or the church understanding the message for the future.I appreciate that you admit reliance upon EGW instead of denying it and trying to hide it like most of the others do.
Ah yes, a 19th century American prophet receiving messages from an angel speaking in 16th century English. Just like Joseph Smith's experience.Brother, her inspiration is the same as Paul's correction of the Sabbath in the letter to the Hebrews about another "day" of rest without her or the church understanding the message for the future.
Now if Joshua had succeeded in giving them this rest, God would not have spoken about another day of rest still to come. (Hebrews 4:8 NLT)
My church has not changed "when it is" that evening falls. As the next step in her message below, after learning that evening means sunset, the church has kept the wrong tradition of Judaism since Joshua, expressed by God through Paul above. The seventh day of the week is half a day too late to enter the Sabbath near Jerusalem, as Joshua misunderstood God's Sabbath, due to the earlier Sabbath in Jerusalem, which falls half a day before the seventh day of the week in Jerusalem. Judaism has the days of the week wrong because of the earlier Sabbath in Jerusalem.
I saw that it is even so: “From even unto even, shall ye celebrate your Sabbath.” Said the angel: “Take the word of God, read it, understand, and ye cannot err. Read carefully, and ye shall there find what even is, and when it is.” I asked the angel if the frown of God had been upon His people for commencing the Sabbath as they had. I was directed back to the first rise of the Sabbath, and followed the people of God up to this time, but did not see that the Lord was displeased, or frowned upon them. I inquired why it had been thus, that at this late day we must change the time of commencing the Sabbath. Said the angel: “Ye shall understand, but not yet, not yet.” Said the angel: “If light come, and that light is set aside or rejected, then comes condemnation and the frown of God; but before the light comes, there is no sin, for there is no light for them to reject.” I saw that it was in the minds of some that the Lord had shown that the Sabbath commenced at six o'clock, when I had only seen that it commenced at “even,” and it was inferred that even was at six. I saw that the servants of God must draw together, press together. (Testimonies for the Church, vol. 1, Page 116)
United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
Brother, I was visited by some Mormons who told me that Joseph Smith was a priest after Melchizedek. They did not come back after I told them that this was not possible. I knew he was a false prophet because only Jesus is king and priest “forever” and there can be no other. He put himself in Jesus’ place.Ah yes, a 19th century American prophet receiving messages from an angel speaking in 16th century English. Just like Joseph Smith's experience.
Did Jesus fulfil the prophesies concerning His coming? I assume you will answer yes. So, that would mean that Jesus brought to an end the prophesies concerning Him. Jesus own word were I came to fulfil the Law and the prophets. If He brought to an end the prophesies then because He stated He also in the same sentence He had to have meant He brought the Law to an end. You cannot have it both ways now can you? Paul states in 2Cor3:6-11 that the 10 commandments were only temporary. The King James version states that they were "done away". The Laws of the old covenant stopped at Calvary where Jeus introduced the new and better covenant of Grace. He ratified it with His own blood. 2Cor 3:6-11 also states that the Holy Spirit replaced the 10 commandments. Mankind is now guided by the Blessed Holy Spirit not some commands that were written on stones that Israel filed to keep.Jesus did not come to abolish the Law, but to fulfill it (Matthew 5:17-18).
Have you been reading the writings of Ellen White, the prophet of the SDAs? She taught that the 10 commandments reflects God's character. That is a completely false statement. Are you aware that there is not one word in all of the 10 commandments that asked the Israelites to love God or their fellow man. Is Jesus God? Have you studied John 15:10 14. Love is the great theme of all of the New Covenant teachingsThe moral principles of the Law, such as loving God and loving others, are eternal and unchanging, reflecting God’s holy character. Jesus affirmed that these commandments remain central, summarizing them in Matthew 22:37-40.
Not one jot or one tittle would pass from the Law until ALL Jesus came to do was fulfilled. If you think, for some reason, you can separate out part of the Law you are not understanding what Jesus said. Until Jesus brought to an end to the old covenant with its over 613 laws not on jot could be removed from the Law.While the ceremonial aspects of the Old Covenant (like sacrifices) were fulfilled in Christ, the moral law continues to apply to believers today. Jesus deepened the understanding of the Law, focusing on the heart behind the actions (Matthew 5:21-22).
Moral laws are forever. Israel's Sabbaths were ceremonial. The ceremonial laws were for one nation, Israel. Not one other nation has been instructed by God to observe any day.The moral law is not obsolete but is now lived out by the power of the Holy Spirit, who enables believers to fulfill God’s righteous standards. In Christ, we find the ultimate fulfillment of the Law, as we live in love and holiness. All scriptures point to this.
Is that what scripture tells us? Where did you pick up that tidbit of falsehood?Also the covenant is not expired but renewed in a better way,
Open my heart to what you are proclaiming? My heart is open to the real truth. I, at one time, was indoctrinated to what you are posting. I began studying the Word in place of trusting the doctrines of a church that was based on a woman's false visions.first to the Jews see Jeremiah 31:31-34. But later, remember Jesus sent his disciples to preach the gospel ( everything he told them and did ) to all the world, to those who love God and do His will. I hope you will understand this one day and decide to open your heart.
Peace
Red herring and subjective.Unorthodox doctrine is in error by default.
Please address the points about the context of the passages cited to you. And the arguments that have been presented that show your errors You are not presently doing so. You said they did not have access to the Gospel of Jesus that is the theme of Hebrews three and four.Brother, you keep trying to make a translation error into the foundation of your argument about the message of Hebrews chapter 4. The "good news" spoken of in the passage of those who first heard about the Sabbath when they ate manna with Joshua is not the gospel of Jesus that came after David, as the King James version mistranslated because they misidentified Joshua as Jesus. The "rest" spoken of in the passage is the Sabbath "day" of rest and not the Gospel of Jesus as you say.
God’s promise of entering his rest still stands, so we ought to tremble with fear that some of you might fail to experience it. For this good news (not the Gospel of Jesus as in the KJV)—that God has prepared this rest—has been announced to us just as it was to them. But it did them no good because they didn’t share the faith of those who listened to God. For only we who believe can enter his rest. As for the others, God said, “In my anger I took an oath: ‘They will never enter my place of rest,’” even though this rest has been ready since he made the world. We know it is ready because of the place in the Scriptures where it mentions the seventh day: “On the seventh day God rested from all his work.” But in the other passage God said, “They will never enter my place of rest.” So God’s rest is there for people to enter, but those who first heard this good news (not the Gospel of Jesus as in the KJV) failed to enter because they disobeyed God. So God set another time for entering his rest, and that time is today. God announced this through David much later in the words already quoted: “Today when you hear his voice, don’t harden your hearts.” Now if Joshua had succeeded in giving them this rest, God would not have spoken about another day of rest still to come. So there is a special rest still waiting for the people of God. For all who have entered into God’s rest have rested from their labors, just as God did after creating the world. So let us do our best to enter that rest. But if we disobey God, as the people of Israel did, we will fall. (Hebrews 4:1-11 NLT)
United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
And this is the response which shows that the Spiritual life which is the rest to which Hebrews 3 and 4 speak was.
Those with Joshua who first heard this "good news" (mistranslated by the KJV as the Gospel of Jesus) of the Sabbath "day" of rest did not have access to the Gospel of Jesus. The Gospel of Jesus came way after David for us to be compared to those who ate manna about anything other than the Sabbath. The KJV made the message seem to be about the present after Jesus when it is a message of a past mistake by Joshua in understanding the Sabbath.
Now if Joshua had succeeded in giving them this rest, God would not have spoken about another day of rest still to come. (Hebrews 4:8 NLT)
United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
Brother, the Gospel of Jesus does not fit the context of another “day”. A "day" Joshua was prevented from entering with manna by keeping the seventh day of the week near Jerusalem for 40 years by an “oath” that he later entered within Jerusalem without manna until the time of Jesus, without understanding God's true day of rest to give Israel the biblical Sabbath free of human tradition.
Now if Joshua had succeeded in giving them this rest, God would not have spoken about another day of rest still to come. (Hebrews 4:8 NLT)
United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
The Context starts in chapter 2. Please follow alongBrothers, the passage tells us what “rest” is being spoken of by telling us that it is the “rest” of the seventh day of creation
United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
Brother, in the New Covenant, it is God who puts his way, (law, path, Torah) in our minds and heartsBrother, the Jews memorized the Bible from childhood and still kept human traditions in contradiction to the word of God because they preferred those traditions over the word of God. You may like what a preacher says, but there is no guarantee that it is the word of God unless it comes through the prophets. The Roman Catholic Church did not learn from the mistake of the Jews and has gone its own way, collecting even more human traditions than the Jews, in contradiction to the word of God.
Indeed, the Sovereign LORD never does anything until he reveals his plans to his servants the prophets. (Amos 3:7 NLT)
Unless you learn the original languages of the Bible, you are relying on the translation of uninspired translators to do a good job of giving you God's word and not their own uninspired view of God's word. Our prophetess, Ellen G. White, encouraged us by revealing the Bible's design to overcome these obstacles.
I saw that God had especially guarded the Bible, yet when copies of it were few, learned men had in some instances changed the words, thinking that they were making it more plain, when in reality they were mystifying that which was plain, by causing it to lean to their established views, which were governed by tradition. But I saw that the Word of God, as a whole, is a perfect chain, one portion linking into and explaining another. True seekers for truth need not err; for not only is the Word of God plain and simple in declaring the way of life, but the Holy Spirit is given as a guide in understanding the way to life therein revealed. (Early Writings, pages 220-221)
United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
I know what verse you have in mind, but your question is a misunderstanding of the verse. The context is not about "for whom was the Sabbath created?", but about "can Jesus and his disciples break the Sabbath?".Ok, this one should be easy.
Who was the Sabbath made for according to Jesus?
Following your logic, please provide one verse to answer this simple question.
Who created the Sabbath? Was the Lord of the Sabbath, the Creator not the one who is able to decide if the apostles broke God's Sabbath? Did the Pharisees have more authority than the Creator to decide?I know what verse you have in mind, but your question is a misunderstanding of the verse. The context is not about "for whom was the Sabbath created?", but about "can Jesus and his disciples break the Sabbath?".
When you change your view of the context (from the Ellen White's teaching to the original Jewish one), your question will lose meaning.
I'll dive inOk, this one should be easy.
Who was the Sabbath made for according to Jesus?
Following your logic, please provide one verse to answer this simple question.
Again, you must realize that the context of the verse is a dispute between Jesus and other Jews. Its inside their tradition and culture.Who created the Sabbath? Was the Lord of the Sabbath, the Creator not the one who is able to decide if the apostles broke God's Sabbath? Did the Pharisees have more authority than the Creator to decide?
Anway, I hope you can see from the inability to answer this simple question that God's Word cannot be forced into one verse.
I am Lord of the Sabbath- means get rid of it. Thats nonsensical.Again, you must realize that the context of the verse is a dispute between Jesus and other Jews. Its inside their tradition and culture.
And that the point of the text is not to tell us that we must all keep the Sabbath, but to tell us that the Son of Man has an authority to not keep it.
What church teaches that of that text?Again, you must realize that the context of the verse is a dispute between Jesus and other Jews. Its inside their tradition and culture.
And that the point of the text is not to tell us that we must all keep the Jewish Sabbath, but to tell us that the Son of Man has an authority to not keep it.
Happy Sabbath SabbathBlessings!Speaking of the Sabbath- Happy Sabbath all! I pray you all have a blessed day.
You asked me to show where someone was at fault. The fact that they're teaching unorthodox doctrine automatically puts them at fault. The fact that said doctrine is considered unorthodox to all of Christianity, with the exception of a few that teach it, makes it universally, rather than subjectively, unorthodox ie in error. Why it's in error has been demonstrated by numerous Christians in this and numerous other threads, as you are very well aware.Subjective red herring. Orthodoxy is a subjective topic
The subject of the thread is what? Why some don't keep the Sabbath?.
You say it is unorthodox.
Yet the basis of this claim is from anything but the Bible which should be the Basis for said orthodoxy.
But yours is based on letters and writings by those who controlled the money, your church.
Which is suspect to say the least.
And saying it is unorthodox when replying to someones post that shows what the Bible says on the subject is not showing they are wrong. All it is doing is ignoring what they said by not addressing it. Pretty much trying to talk over them as if you did not hear.
There is not one word about the Sabbath being at test for ALL of us. Why do you take the word of a proven false prophet over what scripture is telling us?the sabbath command is also as God said, a test for us all do not forget this, God will test all of us in many ways.
All those scriptures were for Israel and only for Israel.Exodus 16:4:
Then the Lord said to Moses, “Behold, I will rain bread from heaven for you. And the people shall go out and gather a certain quota every day, that I may test them, whether they will walk in My law or not.”
This testing included specific instructions for gathering twice as much manna on the sixth day and refraining from gathering on the Sabbath (Exodus 16:22-30). It was a way to see if the Israelites would honor His commandment regarding the Sabbath.
also
(Deuteronomy 8:2)
Moses reminded the Israelites that God tested them throughout their journey in the wilderness:
“And you shall remember that the Lord your God led you all the way these forty years in the wilderness, to humble you and test you, to know what was in your heart, whether you would keep His commandments or not.”
Where in all of scripture do we find the phrase "Moral law"? The 10 commandments were composed of nine laws that dealt with morality and one command that dealt with a ceremonial issue. Certainly, the ten were moral verses being immoral. They came from God. Paul wrote that they were only temporary commandments. They were replaced by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. 2Cor3:6-11Last the sabbath is part of the Moral law it is not ceremonial, perhaps the pharisee made it so I do not know I never read the talmud
it is simple really;
Exodus 20:8-11
“Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.”
Their posts of scripture show your orthodoxy is unorthodox. And that the arguments against are baseless. In fact they very seldom deal with the text shared.You asked me to show where someone was at fault. The fact that they're teaching unorthodox doctrine automatically puts them at fault. The fact that said doctrine is considered unorthodox to all of Christianity, with the exception of the fringe sect(s) that teach it, makes it universally, rather than subjectively, unorthodox ie in error. Why it's in error has been demonstrated by numerous Christians in this and numerous other threads, as you are very well aware.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?