WHY THE LORD'S DAY IS NOT SATURDAY

[BeyondET]

Can you please point out where it says the Sabbath is “today” and contradicts God where God said the Sabbath is the seventh day Exodus 20:10 Hebrews does not say the Sabbath is today and the author of Hebrews knows we are not supposed to add or subtract from the commandments Deut 4:2. The law of God is perfect Psalms 19:7 so no changes needed or allowed. Proverbs 30:5-6

What Hebrews 4 does says is “Today” if you hear His voice do not harden your heart Hebrews 4:7

Which the author is quoting David from Psalms 95. The author is also warning about being disobedient to God Hebrews 4:6 and in particular the Sabbath Ezekiel 20:13 Which we are not to follow the same path of disobedience. Hebrews 4:11 Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience And we must cease our works the way God did from His Hebrews 4:10 on the seventh day Hebrews 4:4 which is from the foundation of the world Genesis 2:1-3

Is Today not the Sabbath? Have you forgotten that it is.

 

[pasifika]

Is Today not the Sabbath?

Hi, sorry to interrupt..but Yes "Today" is our (Christians ) Sabbath day. Our work is to "believe " in His Gospel. So technically, this day called "today" doesn't point to any particular day but is whichever day you've come to "believe" in the Gospel, that day is called "today". Hebrews 3&4

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Is Today not the Sabbath? Have you forgotten that it is.

Yes, today is the Sabbath, the seventh day. My apologies if I misunderstood you. Many people wrongly teach Hebrews 4 says the Sabbath turned in “today” meaning everyday, but thats not what Hebrew 4 says, its a call to obedience, not changing one of God’s commandments . Again my apologies if I misunderstood.

 

[BeyondET]

Yes, today is the Sabbath, the seventh day. My apologies if I misunderstood you. Many people wrongly teach Hebrews 4 says the Sabbath turned in “today” meaning everyday, but thats not what Hebrew 4 says, its a call to obedience, not changing one of God’s commandments . Again my apologies if I misunderstood.

Possibly the words in Hebrews was actually spoken on a Sabbath as well.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Possibly the words in Hebrews was actually spoken on a Sabbath as well.

Perhaps, but it’s not saying “today is the Sabbath”. The Text says “today” if you hear His voice do not harden your heart. Hebrews 4:7 Meaning, we should not wait another day to obey God when we hear His voice.

John 12:35 Walk while you have the light, lest darkness overtake you

 

[pasifika]

Perhaps, but it’s not saying “today is the Sabbath”. The Text says “today” if you hear His voice do not harden your heart. Hebrews 4:7 Meaning, we should not wait another day to obey God when we hear His voice.

John 12:35 Walk while you have the light, lest darkness overtake you

Hi, Hebrews 4:7...God set a certain "day" calling it "today"..

In this statement "Today, if you here His Voice, do not harden your hearts" it means the day called "today" or (when day you believe in the Gospel) is that day where you hear God's Voice (I mean His actual Voice speaks )

Here in;

John 5:37,38..And the Father who sent me has himself testifies concerning me.
You have never heard His Voice, nor seen His form, nor does His Word dwell in you, for you do not "believe " the one He sent.

I highlighted above that hearing God's Voice (actual voice) goes hand in hand with "believe in Jesus" or the Gospel and the "day" you hear His Voice , is what Hebrews 4 is saying that day called "today". (Day we entered into God's Sabbath Rest or our Sabbath day).

Perhaps, but it’s not saying “today is the Sabbath”. The Text says “today” if you hear His voice do not harden your heart. Hebrews 4:7 Meaning, we should not wait another day to obey God when we hear His voice.

John 12:35 Walk while you have the light, lest darkness overtake you

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Hi, Hebrews 4:7...God set a certain "day" calling it "today"..

In this statement "Today, if you here His Voice, do not harden your hearts" it means the day called "today" or (when day you believe in the Gospel) is that day where you hear God's Voice (I mean His actual Voice speaks )

Here in;

John 5:37,38..And the Father who sent me has himself testifies concerning me.
You have never heard His Voice, nor seen His form, nor does His Word dwell in you, for you do not "believe " the one He sent.

I highlighted above that hearing God's Voice (actual voice) goes hand in hand with "believe in Jesus" or the Gospel and the "day" you hear Him speak, is what Hebrews 4 is saying that day called "today". (Day we entered into God's Sabbath Rest or our Sabbath day).

God said the Sabbath is on the seventh day Exodus 20:10, not the “day we hear the gospel”. You are adding the day we hear His voice is now the Sabbath, it is not in the Text. Hebrews 4:7 is quoting David in Psalms 95:7 Today, if you will hear His voice: 8 “Do not harden your hearts, as in the rebellion. It was the problem with the Israelites they disobeyed God Hebrews 4:6 specifically the Sabbath Ezekiel 20:13 and the Sabbath rest (keeping of the Sabbath) remains for God’s people Hebrews 4:9. To enter into His rest (gospel rest), we cease our works as God did from His Hebrews 4:10 on the seventh day Hebrews 4:4 Genesis 2:1-3, Exodus 20:10

Hebrews 4:9 literally translates into the keeping of the Sabbath and it remains, not changed, for God’s people.

a Sabbath rest
σαββατισμὸς (sabbatismos)
Noun - Nominative Masculine Singular
Strong's Greek 4520: A keeping of the Sabbath, a Sabbath rest.

We are blessed by God when we keep His Sabbath 58:13 and we need to be careful not to follow the same path of disobedience Hebrews 4:11

 

[pasifika]

God said the Sabbath is on the seventh day Exodus 20:10, not the “day we hear the gospel”. You are adding the day we hear His voice is now the Sabbath, it is not in the Text.

Hi SB, I am not against the 7th day as God's Sabbath Day, because it is His Sabbath day! According to His Word... God work 6 days then Rest on the 7th.

But in Hebrews 3&4, is about God's people Sabbath Day/Rest (the day we enter into God's Sabbath Rest just as He did on the 7th day in creation week)

Hebrews 4:3..."we who believe enter that Rest"...(here it doesnt say we believe only on the 7th day to enter into His Sabbath Rest but rather either we believe or Not determine our Sabbath Rest)

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Hi SB, I am not against the 7th day as God's Sabbath Day, because it is His Sabbath day! According to His Word... God work 6 days then Rest on the 7th.

But in Hebrews 3&4, is about God's people Sabbath Day/Rest (the day we enter into God's Sabbath Rest just as He did on the 7th day in creation week)

In Hebrews there are two different rests being referred to, Christ rest and the seventh day Sabbath rest.

Hebrews 4:10 For he who has entered His rest (gospel rest) has himself also ceased from his works (Sabbath rest) as God did from His. (on the seventh day Hebrews 4:4, Exodus 20:10, Genesis 2:1-3)

God is not a day (the Sabbath day) He gives us rests and blesses us when we obey Him. Isaiah 58:13, Revelation 22:14

Hebrews 4:3..."we who believe enter that Rest"...(here it doesnt say we believe only on the 7th day to enter into His Sabbath Rest but rather either we believe or Not determine our Sabbath Rest)

This is referring to the gospel/spiritual rest and belief and obedience are interchangeable....

Hebrews 4: 3 For we who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said:

“So I swore in My wrath,
‘They shall not enter My rest,’ ”
although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

Hebrews 4:6 Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience,

What was it that those who it was first preached was disobedient to?

The Sabbath rest....

Ezekiel 20:13 Yet the house of Israel rebelled against Me in the wilderness; they did not walk in My statutes; they despised My judgments, ‘which, if a man does, he shall live by them’; and they greatly defiled My Sabbaths. Then I said I would pour out My fury on them in the wilderness, to consume them.

We are not to follow the same path of disobedience:

Hebrews 4:11 Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience.

Which is why the Sabbath rest (Sabbath keeping) remains (not changed) for the people of God.

Hebrews 4:9 NIV There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God;


Ezekiel 20:20 hallow My Sabbaths, and they will be a sign between Me and you, that you may know that I am the Lord your God.’
Ezekiel 20:12 Moreover I also gave them My Sabbaths, to be a sign between them and Me, that they might know that I am the Lord who sanctifies them.

We cannot sanctify ourselves, we do so through the Truth of God's Word John 17:17 all of God's commandments are Truth Psalms 119:151 and unchanging Deut 4:2

 

[trophy33]

In Hebrews there are two different rests being referred to, Christ rest and the seventh day Sabbath rest.

Hebrews 4:10 For he who has entered His rest (gospel rest) has himself also ceased from his works (Sabbath rest) as God did from His. (on the seventh day Hebrews 4:4, Exodus 20:10, Genesis 2:1-3)

God is not a day (the Sabbath day) He gives us rests and blesses us when we obey Him. Isaiah 58:13, Revelation 22:14

This is referring to the gospel/spiritual rest and belief and obedience are interchangeable....

Hebrews 4: 3 For we who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said:

“So I swore in My wrath,
‘They shall not enter My rest,’ ”
although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

Hebrews 4:6 Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience,

What was it that those who it was first preached was disobedient to?

The Sabbath rest....

Ezekiel 20:13 Yet the house of Israel rebelled against Me in the wilderness; they did not walk in My statutes; they despised My judgments, ‘which, if a man does, he shall live by them’; and they greatly defiled My Sabbaths. Then I said I would pour out My fury on them in the wilderness, to consume them.

We are not to follow the same path of disobedience:

Hebrews 4:11 Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience.

Which is why the Sabbath rest (Sabbath keeping) remains (not changed) for the people of God.

Hebrews 4:9 NIV There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God;


Ezekiel 20:20 hallow My Sabbaths, and they will be a sign between Me and you, that you may know that I am the Lord your God.’
Ezekiel 20:12 Moreover I also gave them My Sabbaths, to be a sign between them and Me, that they might know that I am the Lord who sanctifies them.

We cannot sanctify ourselves, we do so through the Truth of God's Word John 17:17 all of God's commandments are Truth Psalms 119:151 and unchanging Deut 4:2

I am surprised how wrongly you read the text of Hebrews 4. It may be caused by your jumping from verse to verse. Let us look at it as it is:

For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day. There remains, then, a Sabbath rest for the people of God. For whoever enters God’s rest also rests from his own work, just as God did from His. Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will fall by following the same pattern of disobedience.

1. God have spoken about another day - therefore Joshua did not give them the true rest, the true rest was only promised to them
2. Therefore, there sill remains the Sabbath rest for the people of God [Israel, in this context] to enter.
3. Whoever enters the Sabbath rest (gospel), is saved - he rests like God rested after everything was completed.

It has nothing to do with Christians keeping a specific day of the week, ceasing physical or mental activity.

 

[pasifika]

In Hebrews there are two different rests being referred to, Christ rest and the seventh day Sabbath rest.

Hebrews 4:10 For he who has entered His rest (gospel rest) has himself also ceased from his works (Sabbath rest) as God did from His. (on the seventh day Hebrews 4:4, Exodus 20:10, Genesis 2:1-3)

God is not a day (the Sabbath day) He gives us rests and blesses us when we obey Him. Isaiah 58:13, Revelation 22:14

This is referring to the gospel/spiritual rest and belief and obedience are interchangeable....

Hebrews 4: 3 For we who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said:

“So I swore in My wrath,
‘They shall not enter My rest,’ ”
although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

Hebrews 4:6 Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience,

What was it that those who it was first preached was disobedient to?

The Sabbath rest....

Ezekiel 20:13 Yet the house of Israel rebelled against Me in the wilderness; they did not walk in My statutes; they despised My judgments, ‘which, if a man does, he shall live by them’; and they greatly defiled My Sabbaths. Then I said I would pour out My fury on them in the wilderness, to consume them.

We are not to follow the same path of disobedience:

Hebrews 4:11 Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience.

Which is why the Sabbath rest (Sabbath keeping) remains (not changed) for the people of God.

Hebrews 4:9 NIV There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God;


Ezekiel 20:20 hallow My Sabbaths, and they will be a sign between Me and you, that you may know that I am the Lord your God.’
Ezekiel 20:12 Moreover I also gave them My Sabbaths, to be a sign between them and Me, that they might know that I am the Lord who sanctifies them.

We cannot sanctify ourselves, we do so through the Truth of God's Word John 17:17 all of God's commandments are Truth Psalms 119:151 and unchanging Deut 4:2

Hi SB, I think there is only ONE "Rest" discussed in Hebrews 4, which is "God's Sabbath Rest", but two different days ie 7th day (where God Rest) & "Today" (where God's people will enter His Rest)..

"Believing" in the Gospel is where God's people enters into "God Sabbath Rest" just as He did on the 7th day in creation..

So, the "gospel rest" as you say is the same rest (Sabbath Rest) as the creation rest (on 7th day).

And still remain for us today to enter into His Sabbath Rest..How? By believing in His Gospel message.

 

[HIM]

Your post to which I was responding was itself a response to another poster who had written this:

b) You believe that Jesus instructions to Jews before his death and resurrection apply still today (I noticed you had quite a hard time to find any instruction regarding keeping the Sabbath, though, you found only the opposite)

It seems reasonable to me to conclude that your post challenged this claim - that you believe at least some of the Law of Moses remains in force. If I am mistaken in this attribution, please let me know.

Either way, my argument is what it is - an as yet unchallenged argument that, despite appearances to the contrary, Matt 5 does not force us to conclude that the Law remains in force until the end of the world.

Well, please go ahead and make your case, or point me to posts where you have done so.

Right, if you take the context of the passage in its entirety to refer only to laws, and not statutes, judgments, ordinances, or commandments, then thanks,
I feel like I understand how this works in your thinking

Peace be with you, my friend

It was said that I was vague and unclear as a habit and that I run place to place and you both used icons in a positive manner which showed you agreed. Sad...

Jesus said, We are the salt of the earth, a light unto the world but if the salt has lost its savor what good is it? In this context He continues to say that we are not to think that He came to destroy the law or the prophets He came to fulfil. The Greek word for fulfill means to bring something to completion, to its uttermost. In the sense of doing or fulfill. As when we do or complete the law or a prophecy is fulfilled or completed. Since He said he was not here to destroy, loosen down the law or the prophets this is how the rest of the passage needs to be understood. Couple that with the fact the very next verse says in respect to the law, that not one jot or tittle shall pass from the law until all come to be. This all that needs to come to be would include us being the salt of the earth, the light unto the world since it is what instigated this part of the sermon in the first place. Then to increase our understanding he continues to say that if anyone teaches against or breaks even one of these least, small commandments. They shall be called least in Heaven. How shall they be called least? The very next verse tells us they shall not enter at all. The mentioning of the least, smallest commandment discloses to us what law he was speaking of. He narrows it down. All of the least, the smallest that He brings up speak of our interaction with one another and God in the moral sense. In other words the laws contained in the Decalogue, and Pentateuch that guide our morality. If we do and teach these we shall be called great in the kingdom of Heaven. And this can only be done in and through Christ. Through Him we shall not work lawlessness, iniquity. Nor will we be proclaiming to Him that we have done anything because without Him we can do nothing.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

And still remain for us today to enter into His Sabbath Rest..How? By believing in His Gospel message.

Hebrews 4:4,9,10 disagrees with you. Hebrews 4 is not deleting God’s Word or His commandments but affirming them.

 

[Leaf473]

Hi, sorry to interrupt..but Yes "Today" is our (Christians ) Sabbath day. Our work is to "believe " in His Gospel. So technically, this day called "today" doesn't point to any particular day but is whichever day you've come to "believe" in the Gospel, that day is called "today". Hebrews 3&4

Yep, "Today, if you hear his voice..."

 

[Leaf473]

Hebrews 4:3..."we who believe enter that Rest"...(here it doesnt say we believe only on the 7th day to enter into His Sabbath Rest but rather either we believe or Not determine our Sabbath Rest)

Going with that idea, the seventh day Sabbath was a shadow of the rest in the gospel.

We rest from our works - "a day of complete rest" - in achieving righteousness.

 

[expos4ever]

It was said that I was vague and unclear as a habit and that I run place to place and you both used icons in a positive manner which showed you agreed. Sad...

Jesus said, We are the salt of the earth, a light unto the world but if the salt has lost its savor what good is it? In this context He continues to say that we are not to think that He came to destroy the law or the prophets He came to fulfil. The Greek word for fulfill means to bring something to completion, to its uttermost. In the sense of doing or fulfill. As when we do or complete the law or a prophecy is fulfilled or completed. Since He said he was not here to destroy, loosen down the law or the prophets this is how the rest of the passage needs to be understood. Couple that with the fact the very next verse says in respect to the law, that not one jot or tittle shall pass from the law until all come to be. This all that needs to come to be would include us being the salt of the earth, the light unto the world since it is what instigated this part of the sermon in the first place. Then to increase our understanding he continues to say that if anyone teaches against or breaks even one of these least, small commandments. They shall be called least in Heaven. How shall they be called least? The very next verse tells us they shall not enter at all. The mentioning of the least, smallest commandment discloses to us what law he was speaking of. He narrows it down. All of the least, the smallest that He brings up speak of our interaction with one another and God in the moral sense. In other words the laws contained in the Decalogue, and Pentateuch that guide our morality. If we do and teach these we shall be called great in the kingdom of Heaven. And this can only be done in and through Christ. Through Him we shall not work lawlessness, iniquity. Nor will we be proclaiming to Him that we have done anything because without Him we can do nothing.

Please answer the clear, straightforward question that both Leaf and I have asked: assuming that you believe some elements of the Law are no longer in force while others are, and assuming you believe "all has not been accomplished", how do you reconcile that position with what Jesus says about not one not or tittle of the Law passing away until all is accomplished.

Why are you not answering this question directly, and instead giving a lengthy reply that artfully evades the question.

 

[HIM]

Please answer the clear, straightforward question that both Leaf and I have asked: assuming that you believe some elements of the Law are no longer in force while others are, and assuming you believe "all has not been accomplished", how do you reconcile that position with what Jesus says about not one not or tittle of the Law passing away until all is accomplished.

Why are you not answering this question directly, and instead giving a lengthy reply that artfully evades the question.

It was answered. If you can’t answer the points shown No and Have a nice day

 

[HIM]

Is Today not the Sabbath?

Hi, sorry to interrupt..but Yes "Today" is our (Christians ) Sabbath day. Our work is to "believe " in His Gospel. So technically, this day called "today" doesn't point to any particular day but is whichever day you've come to "believe" in the Gospel, that day is called "today". Hebrews 3&4

I am surprised how wrongly you read the text of Hebrews 4. It may be caused by your jumping from verse to verse. Let us look at it as it is:

For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day. There remains, then, a Sabbath rest for the people of God. For whoever enters God’s rest also rests from his own work, just as God did from His. Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will fall by following the same pattern of disobedience.

1. God have spoken about another day - therefore Joshua did not give them the true rest, the true rest was only promised to them
2. Therefore, there sill remains the Sabbath rest for the people of God [Israel, in this context] to enter.
3. Whoever enters the Sabbath rest (gospel), is saved - he rests like God rested after everything was completed.

It has nothing to do with Christians keeping a specific day of the week, ceasing physical or mental activity.

Yep, "Today, if you hear his voice..."

No two things are being spoke of in Hebrews 4. The rest we enter into through Christ Jesus which is the Gospel and the seven day Sabbath which God ceased from work. The word also in verse 10 denotes additional thing we do if we enter into the rest in Christ. And the word as in the same verse tell us that we cease from work like God did.

Hebrews 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

 

[Leaf473]

The mentioning of the least, smallest commandment discloses to us what law he was speaking of. He narrows it down. All of the least, the smallest that He brings up speak of our interaction with one another and God in the moral sense.

I hear what you're saying, but he also talks about leaving your gift at the altar and going to court. That sounds like it would include animal sacrifice and civil laws.

Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 5:24-25 - New International Reader's Version

Leave your gift in front of the altar. First go and make peace with them. Then come back and offer your gift. “Suppose someone has a claim against you and is taking you to court. Settle the matter quickly. Do this while you are still together on the way. If you don’t, you may be handed over to...

www.biblegateway.com

 

[Leaf473]

No two things are being spoke of in Hebrews 4. The rest we enter into through Christ Jesus which is the Gospel and the seven day Sabbath which God ceased from work. The word also in verse 10 denotes additional thing we do if we enter into the rest in Christ. And the word as in the same verse tell us that we cease from work like God did.

Hebrews 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

Well, that would be a place where we interpret it differently.

Bible Gateway passage: Titus 3:9 - New International Reader's Version

But keep away from foolish disagreements. Don’t argue about family histories. Don’t make trouble. Don’t fight about what the law teaches. Don’t argue about things like that. It doesn’t do any good. It doesn’t help anyone.

www.biblegateway.com