WHY THE LORD'S DAY IS NOT SATURDAY

[DamianWarS]

...Because that's reserved for the Sabbath.

Comments and criticisms are welcomed.

in name only.

the creation account is a salvation metaphor. it has a lot to unpack but to keep it short before day 1 it is described as an unformed void of darkness and chaos (the deep is a reference to chaos). Each of the days parallels the other, 1 with 4, 2 with 5, and 3 with 6, (you can read them to discover their parallels) but what does day 7 parallel with because there are no days left? Day 7 is the antithesis to before day 1. contrasting themes of chaos/rest, incomplete/complete, darkness/light, empty/full, unfinished/finished (you get the point). before day one is not even a day which further emphasizes these contrasts, as it was nothing whereas day 7 is its opposite.

When we view the creation account as a salvation metaphor it is us who is empty and full of darkness where light is spoken into and we are shaped and molded, then filled will life so that we may in turn produce life.... to what end? the goal is the rest of day 7. So what allows us to enter that rest? Of course Christ (the creation account also foreshadows Christ). We are able to do this because Christ died, lay in the grave (over the sabbath), and rose again in triumph on a new day, the Lord's day. And it was this day for the first time we could enter his rest (and every day after). The logic of the sabbath points to our very breath and beating heart as work and Christ fulfills it as he lay in the grave without a breath or beating heart so the sabbath itself lay in the ground with him in its own death.

He rose again not on the 7th, but the number that follows the 7th (8th? 1st?) where now we can truly enter his rest. The Lord's Day is not the new sabbath, but it is a celebration of the Sabbath being made anew and released to all and every day after. it would be counter-gospel to declare a new boundary of the sabbath contained in a new day so the sabbath is not the Lord's day, but the day of the sabbath itself, except in name only, in like manner does not contain the rest of God (and here's an extra hint, it never did)

 

[HIM]

I hear what you're saying, but he also talks about leaving your gift at the altar and going to court. That sounds like it would include animal sacrifice and civil laws.

Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 5:24-25 - New International Reader's Version

Leave your gift in front of the altar. First go and make peace with them. Then come back and offer your gift. “Suppose someone has a claim against you and is taking you to court. Settle the matter quickly. Do this while you are still together on the way. If you don’t, you may be handed over to...

www.biblegateway.com

His point in bringing that up was in respect to having fault to someone. Besides that is a judgement or statute.

 

[Leaf473]

in name only.

the creation account is a salvation metaphor. it has a lot to unpack but to keep it short before day 1 it is described as an unformed void of darkness and chaos (the deep is a reference to chaos). Each of the days parallels the other, 1 with 4, 2 with 5, and 3 with 6, (you can read them to discover their parallels) but what does day 7 parallel with because there are no days left? Day 7 is the antithesis to before day 1. contrasting themes of chaos/rest, incomplete/complete, darkness/light, empty/full, unfinished/finished (you get the point). before day one is not even a day which further emphasizes these contrasts, as it was nothing whereas day 7 is its opposite.

When we view the creation account as a salvation metaphor it is us who is empty and full of darkness where light is spoken into and we are shaped and molded, then filled will life so that we may in turn produce life.... to what end? the goal is the rest of day 7. So what allows us to enter that rest? Of course Christ (the creation account also foreshadows Christ). We are able to do this because Christ died, lay in the grave (over the sabbath), and rose again in triumph on a new day, the Lord's day. And it was this day for the first time we could enter his rest (and every day after). The logic of the sabbath points to our very breath and beating heart as work and Christ fulfills it as he lay in the grave without a breath or beating heart so the sabbath itself lay in the ground with him in its own death.

He rose again not on the 7th, but the number that follows the 7th (8th? 1st?) where now we can truly enter his rest. The Lord's Day is not the new sabbath, but it is a celebration of the Sabbath being made anew and released to all and every day after. it would be counter-gospel to declare a new boundary of the sabbath contained in a new day so the sabbath is not the Lord's day, but the day of the sabbath itself, except in name only, in like manner does not contain the rest of God (and here's an extra hint, it never did)

That would fit well with the law, including the Sabbath, having a shadow.

 

[Leaf473]

His point in bringing that up was in respect to having fault to someone. Besides that is a judgement or statute.

The part about going to court is a judgment or a statute? Are you saying that Jesus is saying that no laws, statutes, or judgments will pass away until heaven and Earth pass away?

How does the part about leaving your gift at the altar fit, if you want to talk about that?

 

[pasifika]

Going with that idea, the seventh day Sabbath was a shadow of the rest in the gospel.

We rest from our works - "a day of complete rest" - in achieving righteousness.

Yes, that's a good way of putting it. The rest in the gospel is our sabbath rest.
Yes, a "complete rest" in achieving righteousness. Wow you seem to understand this concept here in Hebrews 3&4.

 

[BeyondET]

Perhaps, but it’s not saying “today is the Sabbath”. The Text says “today” if you hear His voice do not harden your heart. Hebrews 4:7 Meaning, we should not wait another day to obey God when we hear His voice.

John 12:35 Walk while you have the light, lest darkness overtake you

I think it was since Paul was well known to visit synagogues on the Sabbath. His use of the word Today was fitting, when reasoning with them.

Acts 17:2
And according to the custom with Paul,
he went in to them and for three Sabbaths reasoned with them from the Scriptures,

 

[pasifika]

Hebrews 4:4,9,10 disagrees with you. Hebrews 4 is not deleting God’s Word or His commandments but affirming them.

Yes affirming them in a deeper understanding and meaning for us.

 

[pasifika]

Hi @Leaf473 referring the Sabbath Rest to a "complete rest" (post #659) if you don't mind to elaborate on this knowledge if not it's okay. Thanks

 

[BobRyan]

the creation account is a salvation metaphor.

Its a historic account hard-wired right into legal code in Ex 20:11 pointing to Gen 2:1-3.

It is a literal historic account that gives the fact of reality to the existence of the 7 day week and the 7th day holy day that we find in Ex 19 where for 40 years no manna falls on that exact day each week.

John 1 - Christ is the Creator - not just the Savior
Rev 14:7 -- we are to worship God as Creator
"for in six days the LORD (YHWH) created the heavens , earth , seas and all that is in them and rested the 7th day"

Where each day is a single evening and morning.

 

[DamianWarS]

Its a historic account hard-wired right into legal code in Ex 20:11 pointing to Gen 2:1-3.

It is a literal historic account that gives the fact of reality to the existence of the 7 day week and the 7th day holy day that we find in Ex 19 where for 40 years no manna falls on that exact day each week.

John 1 - Christ is the Creator - not just the Savior
Rev 14:7 -- we are to worship God as Creator
"for in six days the LORD (YHWH) created the heavens , earth , seas and all that is in them and rested the 7th day"

Where each day is a single evening and morning.

Whose legal code?

Sabbath has a greater meaning than mere obedience to an ancient law. How did Jesus once refer to the law... "you heard it said of old". That greater meaning predates the law and has a purpose independent to the law, Jesus himself has authority over the Sabbath (aka Lord of the Sabbath) and he was there when it was made, in fact is behind its purpose. It is this purpose I speak of which is more noble to keep than the law itself. Law in the end cannot give rest, so seek the one who can give rest and has authority over the Sabbath.

 

[HIM]

The part about going to court is a judgment or a statute? Are you saying that Jesus is saying that no laws, statutes, or judgments will pass away until heaven and Earth pass away?

You read the initial post and know that is not what it said.

How does the part about leaving your gift at the altar fit, if you want to talk about that?

The part about leaving a gift is a judgment that was levied because of sin. It a judgment because of breaking the law, not a law. There is a big difference. The text in respect to leaving a gift at the alter is being said in the subjunctive mode. It is not a command. It says IF you leave your gift at the alter and remember your brother has fault with you leave the gift and make things right with your brother. Making things right with your brother is the subject not the gift leaving. The grammar brings this out too. Brother being the nominative noun.

 

[HIM]

Whose legal code?

Sabbath has a greater meaning than mere obedience to an ancient law. How did Jesus once refer to the law... "you heard it said of old". That greater meaning predates the law and has a purpose independent to the law, Jesus himself has authority over the Sabbath (aka Lord of the Sabbath) and he was there when it was made, in fact is behind its purpose. It is this purpose I speak of which is more noble to keep than the law itself. Law in the end cannot give rest, so seek the one who can give rest and has authority over the Sabbath.

Which is the underlining point of Hebrews 4. We can't truly cease from our work AS God did from His unless we first enter into the rest which is of and in Christ. Without this rest we are in unbelief, living a disobedient life and do nothing but defile the Sabbath and can never truy rest spiritually and cease from our labors as God intended by His example on the Seventh Day.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Yes affirming them in a deeper understanding and meaning for us.

There’s always deeper meanings, but we do not receive them by being disobedient to God.

Hebrews 4:11 Therefore let us be diligent to enter that rest, so that no one will fall, through following the same example of disobedience.

This passage is not giving a pass to break any of God’s commandments, including the Sabbath commandment.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

The Lord's day is when everyone on the planet is silent, and does nothing .. there has never been such a day.

 

[Leaf473]

Hi @Leaf473 referring the Sabbath Rest to a "complete rest" (post #659) if you don't mind to elaborate on this knowledge if not it's okay. Thanks

Thanks for asking Starting with Exodus 31:15 in the NASB, since it's a good literal translation:

Bible Gateway passage: Exodus 31:15 - New American Standard Bible

For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day there is a Sabbath of complete rest, holy to the LORD; whoever does any work on the Sabbath day must be put to death.

www.biblegateway.com

A Sabbath of complete rest, no work. That idea of no work sounds familiar, where else did I hear something like that?

In Romans 4:5,

Bible Gateway passage: Romans 4:5 - New American Standard Bible

But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness,

www.biblegateway.com

We are credited with righteousness even when we do not work.

Then looking at Hebrews 10:1,

Bible Gateway passage: Hebrews 10:1 - New American Standard Bible

One Sacrifice of Christ Is Sufficient - For the Law, since it has only a shadow of the good things to come and not the form of those things itself, can never, by the same sacrifices which they offer continually every year, make those who approach perfect.

www.biblegateway.com

The law cast a shadow of good things that were to come later, such as righteousness without work.
________________

Now, I don't want to be stringing together isolated verses to form a teaching. I'm just using the above references to support 3 ideas I think everyone already agrees with:

The law says no work on the Sabbath.

We obtain righteousness with no work.

The law has a shadow.

So... was the Sabbath a shadow of obtaining righteousness by not working? It looks to me like it is. Further comments and questions always welcome

 

[expos4ever]

It was answered. If you can’t answer the points shown No and Have a nice day

No, it was not answered - you did the old "CF Shuffle". It looks like we will have to do this the hard way. Here is a clear, unambiguous, well-posed question for you:

Do you believe that there are any elements of the Law of Moses that no longer apply? For example, do you believe that the following, from the Law of Moses, remains in force?:

Now when the man with the discharge becomes cleansed from his discharge, then he shall count off for himself seven days for his cleansing; he shall then wash his clothes and bathe his body in [a]running water and will become clean. 14 Then on the eighth day he shall take for himself two turtledoves or two young doves, and come before the Lord to the doorway of the tent of meeting and give them to the priest

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Do you believe that there are any elements of the Law of Moses that no longer apply? For example, do you believe that the following, from the Law of Moses, remains in force?:

Now when the man with the discharge becomes cleansed from his discharge, then he shall count off for himself seven days for his cleansing; he shall then wash his clothes and bathe his body in [a]running water and will become clean. 14 Then on the eighth day he shall take for himself two turtledoves or two young doves, and come before the Lord to the doorway of the tent of meeting and give them to the priest

Why would they? How could they? That does not mean that other laws can not be followed, right?

 

[Leaf473]

You read the initial post and know that is not what it said.

Which initial post? I honestly don't know what you're saying. Laws remain, but not judgments or statutes? Or laws and statutes remain but not judgments?

The part about leaving a gift is a judgment that was levied because of sin. It a judgment because of breaking the law, not a law. There is a big difference.

Okay... Which parts then are you saying that Jesus is saying remain? Just the laws?

The text in respect to leaving a gift at the alter is being said in the subjunctive mode. It is not a command. It says IF you leave your gift at the alter and remember your brother has fault with you leave the gift and make things right with your brother. Making things right with your brother is the subject not the gift leaving. The grammar brings this out too. Brother being the nominative noun.

Are you saying the commands are still around? Commands and laws, but not judgments?

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

I disagree - I believe Jesus intentionally broke the Sabbath as a way of signalling that the Law of Moses was coming to an end. Consider this from Matthew

At that time Jesus went through the grainfields on the Sabbath, and His disciples became hungry and began to pick the heads of grain and eat. 2 Now when the Pharisees saw this, they said to Him, “Look, Your disciples are doing what is not lawful to do on a Sabbath!

Now I am aware that Jesus "defends" His actions and at least appears to claim innocence. Those, like you, who believe the Sabbath is still in force understandably argue, not least based on Jesus's explanation, that He is not breaking the Sabbath. Fair enough. But look at this from Exodus 16:

Now on the sixth day they gathered twice as much bread, [o]two omers for each one. When all the leaders of the congregation came and told Moses, 23 then he said to them, “This is what the Lord [p]meant: Tomorrow is a Sabbath observance, a holy Sabbath to the Lord. Bake what you will bake and boil what you will boil, and all that is left over [q]put aside to be kept until morning.” 24 So they put it aside until morning, as Moses had ordered, and it did not stink nor was there a maggot in it. 25 Then Moses said, “Eat it today, for today is a Sabbath to the Lord; today you will not find it in the field. 26 Six days you shall gather it, but on the seventh day, the Sabbath, there will be [r]none.”

It certainly seems that "being hungry" is no excuse for violating the Sabbath. Or, putting in another way, if, as required by Exodus, there was to be no gathering of manna on the Sabbath, it seems hard to imagine how it would be defensible for Jesus to pick grains on the Sabbath.

In any event, I think there are a myriad of other Biblical reasons to believe the Sabbath is now no longer in force even if this argument of mine is not convincing.

He NEVER broke Shabbat. The Perushim SAID He did...do you agree with them that He sinned?????

 

[expos4ever]

Why would they? How could they? That does not mean that other laws can not be followed, right?

It may help if I explain why I am asking this question of "HIM" - I believe he is evading a valid line of questioning and, in the interests of fairness, I believe this cannot be allowed to pass unchallenged. I believe - and am willing to be corrected on this - that HIM believes the following two things:

1. Some elements of the Law of Moses are done away with now, while others remain in force.
2. That Jesus is referring to a future time - that is a time that has yet to come to pass - when He uttered these words: For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not [g]the smallest letter or stroke of a letter shall pass from the Law, until all is accomplished!

I believe that HIM has been caught in a contradiction - if some of the elements of the Law of Moses have indeed been done away with, how can Jesus be correct in asserting that "not the smallest" letter of the Law has been set aside? And I believe he is trying to dance away from this contradiction. If I am wrong in attributing either or both of beliefs (1) and (2) to HIM, I will gladly cease this line of questioning.

Now then, while I happen to believe that Scripture teaches that all the Law has been "retired", I agree with your implication that there is nothing inherently contradictory in believing that some of the laws have been set aside while others remain - I do not believe Scripture actually teaches this, but that is a different question.