WHY THE LORD'S DAY IS NOT SATURDAY

[The Liturgist]

The Greek word for "under" is ὑπό. It is pronounced hupo.

In Koine Greek, right? Because most users are familiar with the dialects, sub / under is hypo and super / over is hyper.

 

[HIM]

This is to important for those who profess Christ and such a eye opener not to share repeatedly in respect of Sunday not being scriptural

Let's take a look at Matthew. From the KJV Chapter 24 speaks of the tribulation and also the Sabbath. In Matt 24:20-31 Jesus speaks of the Sabbath being kept BY HIS FOLLOWS (US) through the destruction of the Temple in 70AD up to His Second coming.

VERSES 20 THROUGH 31 TALK OF THIS. AND VERSE 20'S WARNING to pray THAT our FLIGHT DUE TO THE PERSECUTION NOT BE IN THE WINTER NOR OR THE SABBATH DAY IS CONNECTED TO THIS.

How do we know?

By His use of the words For, And, Then, For, Behold, Wherefore, For and and in verses 21- 31 where it states the Saints are gathered. All those words are connectives, they connect what is about to be said to what was previously said.

So Are the Apostles around today to experience the tribulation and see the second coming of our Lord?

Have the elect been gathered together?
No, so this warning to pray that our flight not be in the winter nor Sabbath Day IS FOR US ALSO or those who will be blessed to see that glorious day when we the Saints are gathered together to be with the forever more AFTER the tribulation that is said to be like none before.

Matt 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
Matt 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Matt 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
Matt 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
Matt 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Matt 24:25 Behold, I have told you before.
Matt 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
Matt 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Matt 24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
Matt 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Matt 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Matt 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other

 

[pasifika]

Jesus omitted "do not take God's name in vain" from His list (as well as the other commandments in the first four of the ten).

He also did not include "do not covet" - as this was the part that was missing for that person in Matt 19.

Matthew 19:21 is the answer

 

[tampasteve]

ADMIN HAT ON

This thread has been moved from General Theology to Sabbath & The Law.

ADMIN HAT OFF​

 

[FredVB]

I would not know why to have an observance of Sunday, or the first day of the week, from scriptures. I know the seventh day is declared holy, and there is requirement stated to remember it. So I come to observe resting on it, not seeing from scriptures why I should not, even though I am not really so active any more, and I see it is those who keep any from doing that who are ones breaking that commandment, not ones who can't because of who they work for, when they speak for resting on the seventh day.

 

[FredVB]

So at the end of Rom 3 in vs 31 we have
31 Do we then nullify the Law through faith? Far from it! On the contrary, we establish the Law.

The same law that condemns all mankind in Rom 3 - is the one established by faith and applies to all mankind.

19 Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God; 20 because by the works of the Law none of mankind will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes knowledge of sin.

vs 19-20 has "all the world" .. and anyone with a mouth -- as its scope. all of mankind.

If something is shown to be sin in commandments, there isn't anything making those things to not be sins. There are sins among us, and these things need to be brought to a stop. God works toward that and having God in our lives should have us cooperate in that.

 

[BobRyan]

I would not know why to have an observance of Sunday, or the first day of the week, from scriptures. I know the seventh day is declared holy, and there is requirement stated to remember it. So I come to observe resting on it, not seeing from scriptures why I should not, even though I am not really so active any more, and I see it is those who keep any from doing that who are ones breaking that commandment, not ones who can't because of who they work for, when they speak for resting on the seventh day.

ok but many are just trying to understand what scripture says about it regardless of whether they experience any kind of challenging in obeying.

James 2 says "he who breaks one ... breaks them all"
Eph 6:1-2 says the that unit of TEN having as "the first commandment with a promise" being the command "Honor your father and mother" still remains valid for mankind to this very day.

Is 66:23 says that for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth "from SABBATH to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to bow down"

Lev 23:3 a day of holy convocation
Is 58:13 a day to refrain from secular labor
Mark 2 - a day to relieve suffering.

 

[parousia70]

'Zat Jerry in your avatar? Playing a banjo, no less?

Old and in the Way (3:52)

(~);}

 

[parousia70]

The 7th day Sabbath is the only one that is called "The Holy Day of the Lord" in the Bible. Isaiah 58:13

That is never said of "week day 1" or what the Bible calls "the first day" of the week.

Lev 23:7-8
7 In the first day ye shall have a holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work.

8 But ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto Jehovah seven days: in the seventh day is a holy convocation; ye shall do no servile work.

Wait... what? The FIRST Day and the 7th Day are ...gasp... To Be TREATED EXACTLY THE SAME??

oh Snap!

 

[parousia70]

What Bible text says to pit the Commandments of God against Jesus rising from the dead?

We ought ask the same of our SDA friends who already eschew "the commandments of God" in favor of Jesus rising from the Dead, albeit inconsistently.

We can know that the Seventh Day Adventists don't keep the Law of Moses by how few people they stone to death. We know they don't actually keep the Law of Moses by how many of the commandments of God depend on Temple sacrifices and such (which they also can't keep). We know they don't perform the Law of Moses by the fact that the Levitical priesthood of Aaron is extinct. And yet they swear that the Law Covenant of Moses is the way of salvation.

The Covenant of Jesus is the way of salvation, and it's high time that the SDAs join into that Kingdom. And what about that 1844 "coming of Christ" that failed to actualize in the way the SDA leaders said it would?

For sure, it is NOT necessary to circumcise the flesh and to direct people to observe the Law Covenant of Moses, as the Council of Jerusalem decreed in the first century.

The SDAs think that they, after 1800 years of Sunday observance of Christians everywhere, have the authority to change this apostolic custom. Sorry SDAs. Go join the synagogue. Or better, keep your Saturday, but add the Apostolic, Christian celebration of the Lord's Resurrection--Sunday.

How can any reasonable person suppose that the uniform Sunday observance of the Christians from the earliest apostolic times down to today is somehow a blasphemous error while the SDA sect arising in the 1800s has it correct? That's so unreasonable that I would have to surrender all my powers of reason and logic to swallow it. The fact that the apostolic churches gathered to observe a Sunday celebration of Christ's resurrection, in concert with various NT passages to the same effect, makes the SDA view impossible.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Lev 23:7-8
7 In the first day ye shall have a holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work.

8 But ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto Jehovah seven days: in the seventh day is a holy convocation; ye shall do no servile work.

Wait... what? The FIRST Day and the 7th Day are ...gasp... To Be TREATED EXACTLY THE SAME??

oh Snap!

Leviticus 23:3 is the weekly seventh day Sabbath and it is the weekly Holy day of the Lord thy God. Exodus 20:10, Isaiah 58:13

Leviticus 23:7-8 is a yearly feast and it does not always fall on the first day of the week, completely different. The seventh day Sabbath was added before sin right from creation Genesis 2:1-3 the yearly annual feasts days was added because of sin and all point to Jesus at the cross as He became our sacrificial Lamb for the forgiveness of sins when we repent and turn from sin and walk with God in obedience to Him.

The Sabbath commandment points us back to Creation "Remember" and we are commanded to keep the seventh day holy as a memorial to God's creative work and that He is the one who sanctifies us as we cannot sanctity ourselves. Ezekiel 20:12

 

[SabbathBlessings]

We ought ask the same of our SDA friends who already eschew "the commandments of God" in favor of Jesus rising from the Dead, albeit inconsistently.

We can know that the Seventh Day Adventists don't keep the Law of Moses by how few people they stone to death. We know they don't actually keep the Law of Moses by how many of the commandments of God depend on Temple sacrifices and such (which they also can't keep). We know they don't perform the Law of Moses by the fact that the Levitical priesthood of Aaron is extinct. And yet they swear that the Law Covenant of Moses is the way of salvation.

The Covenant of Jesus is the way of salvation, and it's high time that the SDAs join into that Kingdom. And what about that 1844 "coming of Christ" that failed to actualize in the way the SDA leaders said it would?

For sure, it is NOT necessary to circumcise the flesh and to direct people to observe the Law Covenant of Moses, as the Council of Jerusalem decreed in the first century.

The SDAs think that they, after 1800 years of Sunday observance of Christians everywhere, have the authority to change this apostolic custom. Sorry SDAs. Go join the synagogue. Or better, keep your Saturday, but add the Apostolic, Christian celebration of the Lord's Resurrection--Sunday.

How can any reasonable person suppose that the uniform Sunday observance of the Christians from the earliest apostolic times down to today is somehow a blasphemous error while the SDA sect arising in the 1800s has it correct? That's so unreasonable that I would have to surrender all my powers of reason and logic to swallow it. The fact that the apostolic churches gathered to observe a Sunday celebration of Christ's resurrection, in concert with various NT passages to the same effect, makes the SDA view impossible.

We are in the New Covenant, the wages of sin is still death but vengeance is for the Lord, not for us to decide as He is the only one who knows the heart. Hebrews 10:26-30. Through the sacrifice of Jesus we can repent from our sins directly to Jesus as He is our High Priest and Mediator in the New Covenant, 1 Timothy 2:5 Hebrews 4:14 Acts 2:38 (sin is breaking the law 1 John 3:4) and turn from sin and walk in Christ in obedience. Repentance means one has a changed heart.

The Sabbath observance did not start in the 1800's it was from the very beginning of Creation. Genesis 2:1-3 Jesus said the Sabbath was made for man Mark 2:27 and man was created on the sixth day Genesis 1:26 before Jew or Gentile just "man" and it was right before the very first Sabbath in the presence of God. The Sabbath is about time to commune with God on His blessed and holy day. Sin separated man from God so instead of celebrating His Sabbath in His presence we celebrate His Sabbath through His Spirit by doing and speaking His ways on the Lord's holy day. Isaiah 58:13. Once Jesus comes and all sin and sinners will be destroyed all flesh will come to worship the Lord forever on the Sabbath Isaiah 66:22-23 back in His presence the way it was always intended.

There is no commandment for Sunday-keeping, this is a tradition that started by man. There is a commandment for Sabbath-keeping Exodus 20:8-11 written personally by God Exodus 31:18, spoken personally by God Exodus 20 and there is no scripture that says we can break the commandments of God. Jesus illustrated clearly and the example was from the Ten Commandments that we should not obey traditions over the commandments of God. Matthew 15:3-9

 

[parousia70]

there is no scripture that says we can break the commandments of God.

Then why do SDA's break over 600 of them?
The 600+ precepts of the Law of Moses are not suggestions, they are commandments, which Jesus says MUST be kept IN FULL.

Christ demands that every mintue detail of the Law of Moses down to the very least of its 600+ commands be kept. He says: "therefore whosoever shall break one of these LEAST commandments and shall teach others to do so, he shall be called the least in the Kingdom of Heaven." The passage calls for the keeping of the Law even BEYOND what the Pharisees produced in their practice and observance (Matt 5:20).
The Law of Moses is not adheared to by simply reading from a book, it is adheared to in practice.

So, Please enlighten us on why SDA's beieve it's ok to break these commandments in opposition to Christ's command that they be kept?

 

[parousia70]

There is no commandment for Sunday-keeping, this is a tradition that started by man.

Scripture mentions two Sunday gatherings, both at 1 Corinthians 16:1-2, and in the breaking of bread on Sunday (Acts 20:7). This, combined with the universal practice of Sunday observance of the Lord's Resurrection Day among the earliest Christians, proves what was the apostolic tradition as taught by the apostles personally to their churches (2 Thessalonians 1:15; 1 Corinthians 11:2).

"Stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught, whether by word of mouth or by letter from us."

"I praise you because you remember me in everything and hold firmly to the traditions, just as I delivered them to you"

The apostolic traditions were known by the real, historical practice of the first christians everywhere---which was Sunday observance of the Lord's Resurrection Day. This day, which was always distinct from the Mosaic Sabbath, was the premier day of Christianity, for Christ's Resurrection was the premier day of all history.

The Sabbath observance did not start in the 1800's it was from the very beginning of Creation.

Scripture and History demonstrate that while the Christian Church observed Sunday celebration of the Lord's Resurrection from the first century onward, a new practice began marking certain people starting in 1860, when a new sect began introducing a practice that did not originate among the early Church up to that time: A mass boycott of the Lord's Resurrection Day.

The early Christians followed the apostolic tradition of making Sunday a big day of celebration of the Lord's Resurrection. The Lord wasn't resurrected on Saturday.

The SDA people should simply ADD SUNDAY to their religious calendar while keeping Saturday the way they do. Seems to me that this would solve their issues.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Then why do SDA's break over 600 of them?
The 600+ precepts of the Law of Moses are not suggestions, they are commandments, which Jesus says MUST be kept IN FULL.

Christ demands that every mintue detail of the Law of Moses down to the very least of its 600+ commands be kept. He says: "therefore whosoever shall break one of these LEAST commandments and shall teach others to do so, he shall be called the least in the Kingdom of Heaven." The passage calls for the keeping of the Law even BEYOND what the Pharisees produced in their practice and observance (Matt 5:20).
The Law of Moses is not adheared to by simply reading from a book, it is adheared to in practice.

So, Please enlighten us on why SDA's beieve it's ok to break these commandments in opposition to Christ's command that they be kept?

How do you know what 20 million people do? Not everything is commandments.


2 King 17:37
And the statutes, the ordinances, the law, and the commandment which He wrote for you.

Matthew 5:19-30 Jesus is referring to the commandments and is quoting directly from the Ten Commandments.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Scripture mentions two Sunday gatherings, both at 1 Corinthians 16:1-2, and in the breaking of bread on Sunday (Acts 20:7). This, combined with the universal practice of Sunday observance of the Lord's Resurrection Day among the earliest Christians, proves what was the apostolic tradition as taught by the apostles personally to their churches (2 Thessalonians 1:15; 1 Corinthians 11:2).

"Stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught, whether by word of mouth or by letter from us."

"I praise you because you remember me in everything and hold firmly to the traditions, just as I delivered them to you"
The apostolic traditions were known by the real, historical practice of the first christians everywhere---which was Sunday observance of the Lord's Resurrection Day. This day, which was always distinct from the Mosaic Sabbath, was the premier day of Christianity, for Christ's Resurrection was the premier day of all history.


Scripture and History demonstrate that while the Christian Church observed Sunday celebration of the Lord's Resurrection from the first century onward, a new practice began marking certain people starting in 1860, when a new sect began introducing a practice that did not originate among the early Church up to that time: A mass boycott of the Lord's Resurrection Day.

The early Christians followed the apostolic tradition of making Sunday a big day of celebration of the Lord's Resurrection. The Lord wasn't resurrected on Saturday.

The SDA people should simply ADD SUNDAY to their religious calendar while keeping Saturday the way they do. Seems to me that this would solve their issues.

God says so clearly the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord they God Exodus 20:10 and is My holy day. Isaiah 58:13.

The apostles broke break everyday Acts 2:46 but not everyday is the Sabbath or God's holy day according to God.

Only the Sabbath do we have scripture where the apostles kept every Sabbath preaching the Word of God to Jews, Gentiles and whole cities, where as there is no such scripture for the first day. There is no such scripture for the first day that says it is God's holy day, or the day God commanded us to keep holy. God deemed all other days working days Exodus 20:9 and commanded us to keep His Sabbath day holy Exodus 20:8-11 and we see the example of Jesus and the apostles keeping the Sabbath and God's holy day. Luke 4:16, Acts 18:4, Acts 13:44, Acts 13:42 and many more...

There is nothing wrong with traditions as long as it is not in place of the commandments of God and Jesus gave the example right from the Ten Commandments


Matthew 15:3 He answered and said to them, “Why do you also transgress the commandment of God because of your tradition? 4 For God commanded, saying, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; (Exodus 20:12) and, ‘He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.’ 5 But you say, ‘Whoever says to his father or mother, “Whatever profit you might have received from me is a gift to God”— 6 then he need not honor his father or mother.’ Thus you have made the commandment of God of no effect by your tradition. 7 Hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy about you, saying:

8 ‘These people draw near to Me with their mouth,
And honor Me with their lips,
But their heart is far from Me.
9 And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’ ”

This is a very powerful teaching of Jesus that so many people sadly choose to cast aside. Jesus clearly is teaching us that the commandment of God is our standard of living, not the teachings of man. When we follow the teachings of man over the commandments of God it makes the commandment of no effect and you worship in vain. This example came right from the Ten Commandments which is in a unit of Ten, not nine or one. Exodus 34:28 personally written by God Exodus 31:18. There is no scripture that says we can break the commandments of God and it certainly is not what Jesus taught or followed. Scripture says you break one commandment you break them all again quoting from the Ten Commandments. James 2:10-12

 

[parousia70]

How do you know what 20 million people do?

I know what 20 million people don't do. They don't stone anyone to death, they don't perform animal sacrifices for atonement, they don't do 600+ of the commands of the Mosaic Law.

Not everything is commandments.

Which of the 600+ ordinances (2 Kings 17:37) of the Mosaic Law do you believe are merely suggestions and not commands?
Citing chapter and verse of these "mere suggestions" would help.

2 King 17:37
And the statutes, the ordinances, the law, and the commandment which He wrote for you.

Matthew 5:19-30 Jesus is referring to the commandments and is quoting directly from the Ten Commandments.

For you to claim that Matt 5:17-19 is not talking about the Law of Moses in its TOTALITY is curious indeed.

Perhaps I should re-ask the question this way:

What Law did Christ's original hearers think he was referring to when he mentioned the law and the prophets (5:17) along with its jots and tittles (5:18) and its commands that must be kept even to the least of them (5:19)?

Are these not the "ordinances" of Law of Moses you yourself referenced in 2 Kings?

I just want to get back to what Matthew 5:17-19 SAYS.

I'll state it in the positive: the passage of Matthew 5:17-19 says that not one jot nor tittle of the Law of Moses will pass UNTIL heavens/earth pass away and, THEREFORE, whoever breaks the very least of the commands in the Law of Moses and teaches others to do so will be the least in the Kingdom of Heaven.

Now, Jesus said that until Heaven/earth passes the Law of Moses must be kept even to its very least commands. Simple, wasn't it?

So, why do SDA's feel it's perfectly OK to ignore Jesus' command to keep them?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I know what 20 million people don't do. They don't stone anyone to death, they don't perform animal sacrifices for atonement, they don't do 600+ of the commands of the Mosaic Law.


Which of the 600+ ordinances (2 Kings 17:37) of the Mosaic Law do you believe are merely suggestions and not commands?
Citing chapter and verse of these "mere suggestions" would help.

2 King 17:37
And the statutes, the ordinances, the law, and the commandment which He wrote for you.


For you to claim that Matt 5:17-19 is not talking about the Law of Moses in its TOTALITY is curious indeed.

Perhaps I should re-ask the question this way:

What Law did Christ's original hearers think he was referring to when he mentioned the law and the prophets (5:17) along with its jots and tittles (5:18) and its commands that must be kept even to the least of them (5:19)?

Are these not the "ordinances" of Law of Moses you yourself referenced in 2 Kings?

I just want to get back to what Matthew 5:17-19 SAYS.

I'll state it in the positive: the passage of Matthew 5:17-19 says that not one jot nor tittle of the Law of Moses will pass UNTIL heavens/earth pass away and, THEREFORE, whoever breaks the very least of the commands in the Law of Moses and teaches others to do so will be the least in the Kingdom of Heaven.

Now, Jesus said that until Heaven/earth passes the Law of Moses must be kept even to its very least commands. Simple, wasn't it?

Thats easy because Jesus is quoting directly from the Ten Commandments.

Matthew 5:19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.21 “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.’ 22 But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, ‘Raca!’ shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, ‘You fool!’ shall be in danger of hell fire. 23 Therefore if you bring your gift to the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you, 24 leave your gift there before the altar, and go your way. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift. 25 Agree with your adversary quickly, while you are on the way with him, lest your adversary deliver you to the judge, the judge hand you over to the officer, and you be thrown into prison. 26 Assuredly, I say to you, you will by no means get out of there till you have paid the last penny. 27 “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ 28 But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29 If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell. 30 And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.

 

[BobRyan]

The 7th day Sabbath is the only one that is called "The Holy Day of the Lord" in the Bible. Isaiah 58:13

That is never said of "week day 1" or what the Bible calls "the first day" of the week.

Lev 23:7-8
7 In the first day ye shall have a holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work.

A great example of NOT finding a reference to "week day 1" or "the first day of the week" in Lev 23.

1. That is not a reference to a weekly event that happens each day of the week.
2. That is an annual event. So then one-first day in the entire year. not every week.
3. Lev 23:5-8 needs to be quoted to see in context what you are providing in snip form.

Lev 23:

5 In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month at twilight is the Lord’s Passover. 6 Then on the fifteenth day of the same month there is the Feast of Unleavened Bread to the Lord; for seven days you shall eat unleavened bread. 7 On the first day you shall have a holy convocation; you shall not do any laborious work. 8 But for seven days you shall present an offering by fire to the Lord. On the seventh day is a holy convocation; you shall not do any laborious work.’”​

1. The 14th day of the month could fall on any one of the 7 days of the week. Obviously.
2. The seven days of unleavened bread could start on day one of the 7 days of the week.
3. On the first day of the 7 day period - they would have holy convocation - but it is not a reference to "first day of the week".

Why then are you so glad when you do NOT find Lev 23 to be a ref to "the first day of the WEEK"??? well because there is nothing of that sort in all of scripture - so I guess you need to find what might possibly be left after that.

 

[BobRyan]

I know what 20 million people don't do.

They don't eat rat sandwiches?? Ok yeah - they don't do that.

They don't stone anyone to death, they don't perform animal sacrifices

Indeed. Even the Baptist Confession of Faith , and the Westminster Confession of Faith affirm this same thing - that the TEN still remain as the moral law of God even though the civil laws under the nation theocracy of the OT ended when the nation theocracy ended and even though the animal sacrifices ended with Christ's death on the cross as Heb 10:4-12 points out.

That is not "news" even for the non-SDA groups to admit to it.

These are the basic Bible details that all Bible scholarship in almost all major Christian denominations - on BOTH sides the the Sabbath debate admit to -- how is it now presented as 'news' in your post??