Why the King James Bible is Still the Best and Most Accurate

BeingThere

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This is an admiral sentiment - but unfortunately, Bible Highlighter has already staked his faith, and I believe even his life, on the KJV being perfect.
I don't think that there is any way that he will respond to logical discussion and examination of the facts; that is his starting point and he is not going to change his position.

Sad.

Agreed.

This comes to mind:
31 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
(Mark 13:31)

His words are not the written word, but the substance behind the words. Does anyone think that, when our world is ending, that the Bible as a collection of words shall somehow escape the fire? What will escape the fire is the Word which has taken root in our lowly hearts.

Words only present an infinitesimal part of reality. Our closely held beliefs that are not part of God's reality (God cannot be reduced to words) must go as well. This is the creation of new wineskins to hold the new wine, the dawning of the new man in place of the old. If this Scholar will find his faith anew, not in the KJB, but in God, then he will welcome this trial. I have work to do as well.
 
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Agreed.

This comes to mind:
31 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
(Mark 13:31)

His words are not the written word, but the substance behind the words. Does anyone think that, when our world is ending, that the Bible as a collection of words shall somehow escape the fire? What will escape the fire is the Word which has taken root in our lowly hearts.

Words only present an infinitesimal part of reality. Our closely held beliefs that are not part of God's reality (God cannot be reduced to words) must go as well. This is the creation of new wineskins to hold the new wine, the dawning of the new man in place of the old. If this Scholar will find his faith anew, not in the KJB, but in God, then he will welcome this trial. I have work to do as well.

Great post!
 
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BeingThere

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Screenshot 2022-01-01 14.14.20.png


This is highly instructive. The one person who says "I don't know" is a definite partaker in the resurrection, in my opinion! The best translation of the Bible is the one you will read -- CEB
 
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Bible Highlighter

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We have, over the last 4 or 5 thread pages, discussed what you think is Biblical corruption, but which is nothing of the sort. The arguments you have made are taken directly from this video and other internet sources, and we have refuted the best of them. Read the last few posts. Anyhow, if you have no recourse but to outsource your Biblical authority to others, then how shaky can your argument be? Faith in a "perfect Bible" is evidence of not understanding the meaning behind it, and no perfect Bible exists.

Either watch the video or don’t watch it. But it seems like you made up your mind already despite whatever evidence I have presented so far. That is why this conversation is going nowhere.

Good day to you in the Lord.
 
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View attachment 310332

This is highly instructive. The one person who says "I doesn't know" is a definite partaker in the resurrection, in my opinion! The best translation of the Bible is the one you will read -- CEB

Your not God to know that. We have to be faithful to the end. In either case, I don’t think you are looking to be open on this topic and so I would be wasting my time trying to convince you. I have already put forth more than enough reasons for the King James Bible in this thread already to convince a believer looking for the truth. If that’s not you… so be it. I believe the way I do because there are many evidences for the KJB. If you don’t see it, that is because you don’t want to see it because you have already made up your mind to take a liberal approach towards God’s Word.
 
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So Strong’s and his buddies made a perfect Bible that is without error? Is the Strong’s Concordance an inspired work of God? Is that the true and pure Word of God that you can hold in your hands?
No the Greek and Hebrew Scriptures are. So the Strong’s concordance helps. The KJV and other translation are just that translations. None are perfect but most are enough. They all have mistakes in their translations. Every single one of them.
 
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BeingThere

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Your not God to know that. We have to be faithful to the end. In either case, I don’t think you are looking to be open on this topic and so I would be wasting my time trying to convince you. I have already put forth more than enough reasons for the King James Bible in this thread already to convince a believer looking for the truth. If that’s not you… so be it. I believe the way I do because there are many evidences for the KJB. If you don’t see it, that is because you don’t want to see it because you have already made up your mind to take a liberal approach towards God’s Word.

That's just it, while you are trying to provide evidence for the KJV, we are not trying to provide evidence against it. We are simply saying that claiming the KJV is God's inspired literal word in the English language is dangerous and does eager hearers of the word a disservice.
 
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No the Greek and Hebrew Scriptures are. So the Strong’s concordance helps. The KJV and other translation are just that translations. None are perfect but most are enough. They all have mistakes in their translations. Every single one of them.

But where is your perfect Bible that you can hold in your hands?

Also, watch this video.

(Note: I do not believe everything this pastor says or believes; I especially do not agree with his view of Calvinism. I also not agree with his view that words must always have only one meaning within a verse and that looking to the Strong’s on occasion for this purpose can be helpful).

Yes, I know the author is only intending to speak to KJB Only Christians, but he makes a really good point in the beginning of the video that should make your point moot, my friend.

Also, check out Bridge to Babylon. For me: This is really convincing. I already knew Modern Bibles are corrupt, but this really just opens wide the door beyond a shadow of a doubt of just how bad they are.

full


Watch Bridge to Babylon | Prime Video
 
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BeingThere

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In the first two minutes the speaker said that the Hebrew and the Greek and the KJV are all equally the word of God. They are all equal because they all convey the meaning of the scriptures. They are unequal because translation is not a perfect science.

Therefore, any modern translation, if done from the appropriate and pluralistic source texts, is in the same category as the KJV. The KJV tends toward literalism, as does the NASB, whereas Phillips or the Message tend toward paraphrase. I don't see how anyone can disagree with this.

Therefore, show me where the NASB is corrupt. You can't, because it's not. It is merely one in a long line of imperfectly translated Bibles. Again, I don't care if it's perfect, the literal perfection of a language is impossible. The message and the Truth is perfect, only if we can see beyond the word.

If you can't see this logic, then there is no point in continuing, though I had an enjoyable time debating with you. You see, debate about scriptural meaning is a longstanding and rich tradition going back ages, and is still practiced in Jewish circles. But debate requires an openness of mind which is a quality of Christ's mind. We have stopped exploring for the Truth when we place arbitrary systems of thought on the Truth, such as translational inerrancy and literalism.
 
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In the first two minutes the speaker said that the Hebrew and the Greek and the KJV are all equally the word of God. They are all equal because they all convey the meaning of the scriptures. They are unequal because translation is not a perfect science.

Therefore, any modern translation, if done from the appropriate and pluralistic source texts, is in the same category as the KJV. The KJV tends toward literalism, as does the NASB, whereas Phillips or the Message tend toward paraphrase. I don't see how anyone can disagree with this.

Therefore, show me where the NASB is corrupt. You can't, because it's not. It is merely one in a long line of imperfectly translated Bibles. Again, I don't care if it's perfect, the literal perfection of a language is impossible. The message and the Truth is perfect, only if we can see beyond the word.

If you can't see this logic, then there is no point in continuing, though I had an enjoyable time debating with you. You see, debate about scriptural meaning is a longstanding and rich tradition going back ages, and is still practiced in Jewish circles. But debate requires an openness of mind which is a quality of Christ's mind. We have stopped exploring for the Truth when we place arbitrary systems of thought on the Truth, such as translational inerrancy and literalism.

Go back and re-read this thread. I already shown the errors in the NASB.
If that is not enough, I am sure you can Google it.
But here is one quick source on it.

Various Contradictions and Omissions in Bible Translations

But I am not expecting you to get it (even when looking that these differences because your approach to the Bible is all wrong).
 
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Bible Highlighter

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Bible Highlighter said:
But where is your perfect Bible that you can hold in your hands?
Pure idolatry. I hope God opens your eyes.

So if that’s the case, then Moses was into idolatry when he carried in his hands the perfect words of God on tablets of stone? Idolatry is worshiping an object as God. Maybe you did not read my longer post to you before, but I said the following to you.

Think of the Bible like a love letter a woman receives from her fiancé in a far away country. She may revere and cherish the letter. There is nothing wrong in doing that because they are the expressed thoughts of her fiancé; But if she started to take that love letter out on dinner dates and talked with the letter, and tried to get affectionate with the letter as if it was actually her fiancé, then we would have a problem. I know of no KJB Only believer who does such a thing. They regard God as a spirit being, and they worship Him in spirit and in truth. They may hold His words in high regard and cherish and love his words because they are the expressed mind of God, but they do not think God is literally inked words on paper within the Bible. That would be silly to even suggest that. Sure, there may be some odd cult like people out there who may hold to such a view, but we are not talking about a few rare crackpots here.
 
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So is yours - that's why this discussion is not going anywhere.

To what is this referring? Or should I say "forsooth, I knoweth not to where this talk goeth?
 
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The Liturgist

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You wrote "the choice of vowell imparts more precision". I assume that you meant "vowel"; correct spelling imparts more precision.

There’s this thing called a “typographic error” which we are all guilty of. These are only worth pointing out when people have made possible mistakes in aural-phonetic comprehension or are at risk of habitual mnemonic transposition, such as substituting cannon for canon, or Armenian for Arminian, errors which one sees frequently on CF.com, or among younger people, less for lest, witch for which, or homophonic transpositions such as steal vs. steel, we’ve vs. weave, or bee vs. be. I did once encountered a man in his fifties who had a nasty habit of writing “maybee.”

Respect for elders however compels us to avoid correct gaffes made by older people, as these are more likely to be accidental, than the fruit of ignorance.

When I came to "women are men" in your post I stopped reading.

In the English language, like the Greek language and indeed most Indo-Iranian languages, the word men can be used as a category to encapsulate male and female, and you did criticize someone for using this traditional usage baselessly. If the KJV is dated and contains some examples of poor judgement, like using the Masoretic text uncorrected by the Septuagint, tje decisions of liberal scholars and translators like Hal Taussig in A New New Testament modifying the text of the canonical scriptures, sourced from the CC-licensed Open English Bible, which is a good project, the title of our Lord, “The Son of Man” to “The Child of Humanity” are abjectly horrible. And while the third edition NIV is not that offensive, we can rest assured that until the liberal minority leading the failing mainline denominations is removed, or the denominations are replaced by growing successors, like ACNA and some continuing Anglican churches, the PCA and OPC, the LCMS and WELS, and other faithful churches, as indeed the mainline Baptists virtually have been by the SBC, which after rejecting liberalism and embracing traditional Christian values and the plain meaning of Scripture, grew dramatically to the point where it is now the largest Protestant denomination in the United States, on a scale unmatched except by the Roman Catholics, and is in the minds of many Americans, what Baptism means, the fourth version of the NIV might well contain even more offensive translations.

Market forces are at work in this, because Zondervan wants to sell to churches and to pastors, Bibles for the pews and expensive Bible study software to the seminaries, and sermon-planning software to clergy, and use those ecclesiastical sales as a springboard for sales to individuals, and the two largest target markets in the US are the Roman Catholic Church and the Mainline Protestant churches. This is due to relative homogenity in doctrine and praxis engendered by the liberal seminaries, ICEL, the RCL, and other sources of liturgical commonality; conversely market fragmentation in the Evangelical and Reformed marketspaces owing to doctrinal and liturgical disagreements between smaller denominations, and even within denominations such as the LCMS and SBC, where Congregationalism, which I support, allows some denominations to retain the much-loved 1941 Lutheran Hymnal and KJV.

*Giving credence, for example, to the view of Luther that Esther should be deleted, and denying us beautiful pericopes like Wisdom 2 or Sirach 38:1-15, which excepting verse 15, is appointed to be read from on the Feast of St. Luke in the 1922 Revised Table of Lessons of the 1662 Book of Common Prayer, and which is appointed as the Old Testament Lesson at Holy Communion in the 1979 American edition of the BCP.

**Many mainline churches in my area tend to have an NIV and a disused hymnal in them, except for the Episcopal churches, where the disused hymnal is replaced by a disused BCP, given the tendency of Episcopal parishes to waste money producing the most detailed orders of worship I have ever seen; at my retired friends church, the BCP in the pew was needed only for the 8 AM said service, and with that suppressed, and given Covid, I expect the pews are empty).
 
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6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
(II Corinthians 3:6)

18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
(Matthew 5:18)


The Law lives is an oppression all those who have yet to be saved through grace. My point was that adhering to the letter of the Bible, and not the meaning, is keeping that grace from being established within us, and leaves us to the sharp teeth of the Law. This Law is greater than that of Moses, as even the Gentiles are said to be under its hand:

13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
(Romans 2:13, 14)

And we cannot be doers of the law unless we are also saved from it, for any doing of the law without grace through Christ's mediation is incomplete, and brings condemnation by the law. The law did not die with Moses.

Read Galatians if you want to understand the problems for Christians when they try to keep the OT law. Here is a brief excerpt: Galatians 3:1-3, NET v2.1, "You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard? Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh?"
 
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There’s this thing called a “typographic error” which we are all guilty of. These are only worth pointing out when people have made possible mistakes in aural-phonetic comprehension or are at risk of habitual mnemonic transposition, such as substituting cannon for canon, or Armenian for Arminian, errors which one sees frequently on CF.com, or among younger people, less for lest, witch for which, or homophonic transpositions such as steal vs. steel, we’ve vs. weave, or bee vs. be. I did once encountered a man in his fifties who had a nasty habit of writing “maybee.”

Respect for elders however compels us to avoid correct gaffes made by older people, as these are more likely to be accidental, than the fruit of ignorance.



In the English language, like the Greek language and indeed most Indo-Iranian languages, the word men can be used as a category to encapsulate male and female, and you did criticize someone for using this traditional usage baselessly. If the KJV is dated and contains some examples of poor judgement, like using the Masoretic text uncorrected by the Septuagint, tje decisions of liberal scholars and translators like Hal Taussig in A New New Testament modifying the text of the canonical scriptures, sourced from the CC-licensed Open English Bible, which is a good project, the title of our Lord, “The Son of Man” to “The Child of Humanity” are abjectly horrible. And while the third edition NIV is not that offensive, we can rest assured that until the liberal minority leading the failing mainline denominations is removed, or the denominations are replaced by growing successors, like ACNA and some continuing Anglican churches, the PCA and OPC, the LCMS and WELS, and other faithful churches, as indeed the mainline Baptists virtually have been by the SBC, which after rejecting liberalism and embracing traditional Christian values and the plain meaning of Scripture, grew dramatically to the point where it is now the largest Protestant denomination in the United States, on a scale unmatched except by the Roman Catholics, and is in the minds of many Americans, what Baptism means, the fourth version of the NIV might well contain even more offensive translations.

Market forces are at work in this, because Zondervan wants to sell to churches and to pastors, Bibles for the pews and expensive Bible study software to the seminaries, and sermon-planning software to clergy, and use those ecclesiastical sales as a springboard for sales to individuals, and the two largest target markets in the US are the Roman Catholic Church and the Mainline Protestant churches. This is due to relative homogenity in doctrine and praxis engendered by the liberal seminaries, ICEL, the RCL, and other sources of liturgical commonality; conversely market fragmentation in the Evangelical and Reformed marketspaces owing to doctrinal and liturgical disagreements between smaller denominations, and even within denominations such as the LCMS and SBC, where Congregationalism, which I support, allows some denominations to retain the much-loved 1941 Lutheran Hymnal and KJV.

*Giving credence, for example, to the view of Luther that Esther should be deleted, and denying us beautiful pericopes like Wisdom 2 or Sirach 38:1-15, which excepting verse 15, is appointed to be read from on the Feast of St. Luke in the 1922 Revised Table of Lessons of the 1662 Book of Common Prayer, and which is appointed as the Old Testament Lesson at Holy Communion in the 1979 American edition of the BCP.

**Many mainline churches in my area tend to have an NIV and a disused hymnal in them, except for the Episcopal churches, where the disused hymnal is replaced by a disused BCP, given the tendency of Episcopal parishes to waste money producing the most detailed orders of worship I have ever seen; at my retired friends church, the BCP in the pew was needed only for the 8 AM said service, and with that suppressed, and given Covid, I expect the pews are empty).

You wrote "Respect for elders however compels us to avoid correct gaffes made by older people, as these are more likely to be accidental, than the fruit of ignorance." I'm 78, so I appreciate your implied respect.
 
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But where is your perfect Bible that you can hold in your hands?

Also, watch this video.


Yes, I know the author is only intending to speak to KJB Only Christians, but he makes a really good point in the beginning of the video that should make your point moot, my friend.

Also, check out Bridge to Babylon. For me: This is really convincing. I already knew Modern Bibles are corrupt, but this really just opens wide the door beyond a shadow of a doubt of just how bad they are.

full


Watch Bridge to Babylon | Prime Video

The knack some Evangelicals (for it seems to be mostly they) have for pinning onto Rome whatever they especially disapprove of, is impressive.
 
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In the first two minutes the speaker said that the Hebrew and the Greek and the KJV are all equally the word of God. They are all equal because they all convey the meaning of the scriptures. They are unequal because translation is not a perfect science.

Therefore, any modern translation, if done from the appropriate and pluralistic source texts, is in the same category as the KJV. The KJV tends toward literalism, as does the NASB, whereas Phillips or the Message tend toward paraphrase. I don't see how anyone can disagree with this.

Therefore, show me where the NASB is corrupt. You can't, because it's not. It is merely one in a long line of imperfectly translated Bibles. Again, I don't care if it's perfect, the literal perfection of a language is impossible. The message and the Truth is perfect, only if we can see beyond the word.

If you can't see this logic, then there is no point in continuing, though I had an enjoyable time debating with you. You see, debate about scriptural meaning is a longstanding and rich tradition going back ages, and is still practiced in Jewish circles. But debate requires an openness of mind which is a quality of Christ's mind. We have stopped exploring for the Truth when we place arbitrary systems of thought on the Truth, such as translational inerrancy and literalism.

The problem is that you did not watch the whole video. You did not watch all of Bridge to Babylon, either (with an open mind). While Strong appeared to have made a Concordance that favors the Textus Receptus, James Strong also worked on the English Revised Version (a.k.a. ASV) with Westcott and Hort involving the Critical Text. Westcott and Hort were known heretics in regards to the faith. They kept their beliefs secrets during the time they created the Critical Text and in promoting it because they did not want anyone to reject their Critical Text agenda (Which led to many Modern Bibles today).
 
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You wrote "Respect for elders however compels us to avoid correct gaffes made by older people, as these are more likely to be accidental, than the fruit of ignorance." I'm 78, so I appreciate your implied respect.

Of course, you have not only my respect, but my veneration and love as a fellow Christian and an elder. :hug:

If I might ask, are you a retired cleric or theologian? You seem more knowledgeable and invested in these issues than most.
 
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