Why the King James Bible is Still the Best and Most Accurate

[timothyu]

The Bible is meant to be understood.

True enough but it seems words are not just being modernized/changed but entire sentences are being rephrased. Scriptures have always been seen from two angles, by the flesh and by the spirit, the latter being in the minority. Rephrasing entire sentences is fine for expressing opinion, but the source material should be kept as close to the translations of original words we have as possible.

 

[pescador]

True enough but it seems words are not just being modernized/changed but entire sentences are being rephrased. Scriptures have always been seen from two angles, by the flesh and by the spirit, the latter being in the minority. Rephrasing entire sentences is fine for expressing opinion, but the source material should be kept as close to the translations of original words we have as possible.

You wrote that the source material should be kept as close to the translations of original words we have as possible. That is precisely the goal of every reputable translation. There is the myth that somehow the KJV translators had a much clearer understanding of the ancient languages and had the best source documents, but it's a myth.

BTW, the goal of every translation is to convey not just the words of the earliest texts -- the originals don't exist -- but to convey the meaning of those texts. The vocabulary, verb tenses, idioms, etc. of the ancient languages are very different than those of English, so a (supposed) word-for-word translation would be confusing. (The KJV is not a word-for-word translation.) In addition, none of us live in the ancient Bible cultures; our world is very, very different than theirs. A good, modern translation is the best way for us to understand what was written thousands of years ago.

 

[timothyu]

but to convey the meaning of those texts.

That is the job of self proclaimed theologians via their institutions and website followers alike. The texts don't need to self justify.

 

[pescador]

That is the job of self proclaimed theologians via their institutions and website followers alike. The texts don't need to self justify.

I wrote, " the goal of every translation is to convey not just the words of the earliest texts -- the originals don't exist -- but to convey the meaning of those texts". How is conveying the meaning of the Bible self-justification? If that was the case, we wouldn't have a translation at all.

Also, we might as well not have pastors, sermons, etc. who explain the Bible's meaning constantly to the rest of us.

 

[timothyu]

How is conveying the meaning of the Bible self-justification? If that was the case, we wouldn't have a translation at all.

Because the important words such as those of Jesus speak for themselves. You will note that other words and Christianity itself tends to lead us away from those words to other ideas man wishes to portray as important, such as the religion itself and it's institutions.

Also, we might as well not have pastors, sermons, etc. who explain the Bible's meaning constantly to the rest of us.

Precisely. Those of the flesh may need flesh to keep them in the world, but those of the spirit have already found the Kingdom in Jesus' words.

 

[pescador]

Because the important words such as those of Jesus speak for themselves. You will note that other words and Christianity itself tends to lead us away from those words to other ideas man wishes to portray as important, such as the religion itself and it's institutions.


Precisely. Those of the flesh may need flesh to keep them in the world, but those of the spirit have already found the Kingdom in Jesus' words.

So why are you even participating in this forum? Are your words somehow exempt from your rule?

 

[timothyu]

So why are you even participating in this forum? Are your words somehow exempt from your rule?

Like I said, theologians and website followers alike.

 

[pescador]

Like I said, theologians and website followers alike.

Including yourself?

 

[timothyu]

Including yourself?

Am I not a website follower?

 

[GodLovesCats]

Yes. That is the language that I and millions of others use every single day and we understand each other clearly. There is no reason that there needs to be a barrier to understanding God's Word as clearly as possible. The Bible was written to be understood.

This is why nobody should read ancient British English after learning modern American English exclusively outside of church. All forms of English count as foreign languages except the one I learned growing up. To justify learning ancient British English, I need to see and hear everyone use it everywhere.

 

[GodLovesCats]

True enough but it seems words are not just being modernized/changed but entire sentences are being rephrased. Scriptures have always been seen from two angles, by the flesh and by the spirit, the latter being in the minority. Rephrasing entire sentences is fine for expressing opinion, but the source material should be kept as close to the translations of original words we have as possible.

Here is an example of just modernizing the vocabulary and phrasing that is necessary to understand what the verse means:

KJV: If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine.

NKJV: “If men fight, and hurt a woman with child, so that she gives birth prematurely, yet no harm follows, he shall surely be punished accordingly as the woman’s husband imposes on him; and he shall pay as the judges determine.

Completely rephrasing it without changing the meaning looks like this in the NLT:

“Now suppose two men are fighting, and in the process they accidentally strike a pregnant woman so she gives birth prematurely. If no further injury results, the man who struck the woman must pay the amount of compensation the woman’s husband demands and the judges approve.

I do not support this paragraph as coming from the Holy Spirit, but it is clear to any reader what the verse means, unlike using the words strive, fruit, depart, and mischief while remaining consistent with the NKJV.

 

[Red Gold]

This is why nobody should read ancient British English after learning modern American English exclusively outside of church. All forms of English count as foreign languages except the one I learned growing up. To justify learning ancient British English, I need to see and hear everyone use it everywhere.

I cannot agree with that. Out of linguistic interest it is fully OK to study earlier forms of one's language and of other languages.

I studied "Mittelhochdeutsch" and "Althochdeutsch" at University.
And I also studied the "Middle English" of Chaucer and I studied Caedmons Hymn and Beowolf in "Old English" and enjoyed it.

But the Bible that we use today and read today should be in Modern English, of course.

 

[Red Gold]

Here is the General Prologue of the Canterbury Tales by Chaucer.

Whan that Aprille with his shoures soote,
The droghte of March hath perced to the roote,
And bathed every veyne in swich licóur
Of which vertú engendred is the flour;
Whan Zephirus eek with his swete breeth
Inspired hath in every holt and heeth
The tendre croppes, and the yonge sonne
Hath in the Ram his halfe cours y-ronne,
And smale foweles maken melodye,
That slepen al the nyght with open ye,
So priketh hem Natúre in hir corages,
Thanne longen folk to goon on pilgrimages,
And palmeres for to seken straunge strondes,
To ferne halwes, kowthe in sondry londes;
And specially, from every shires ende
Of Engelond, to Caunterbury they wende,
The hooly blisful martir for to seke,
That hem hath holpen whan that they were seeke.

The Canterbury Tales: General Prologue by… | Poetry Foundation

I know it by heart and enjoy this language

 

[timothyu]

Spell checker must have taken a fit

 

[Red Gold]

Spell checker must have taken a fit

IT IS WONDERFULLY POETIC MIDDLE ENGLISH!

I find it great!

Would you also have no other comment for Shakespeare's poetry?

 

[Red Gold]

Here is a translation:

When April with his showers sweet with fruit

The drought of March has pierced unto the root

And bathed each vein with liquor that has power

To generate therein and sire the flower;

When Zephyr also has, with his sweet breath,

Quickened again, in every holt and heath,

The tender shoots and buds, and the young sun

Into the Ram one half his course has run,

And many little birds make melody

That sleep through all the night with open eye

(So Nature pricks them on to ramp and rage)-

Then do folk long to go on pilgrimage,

And palmers to go seeking out strange strands,

To distant shrines well known in sundry lands.

And specially from every shire's end

Of England they to Canterbury wend,

The holy blessed martyr there to seek

Who helped them when they lay so ill and weak.


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More: The General Prologue - Translation

 

[Red Gold]

I had wanted to post a film from youtube where somebody reads the Middle English texts.
But when I listened to it I found it was read so badly that I do not want to post it.