Why should I beleive in God?

[Spyr]

Do you see what you're saying? Dude, shoo away the doubt, let Him fill you with peace and goodness and it'll all be good!

And when a christian or a mormon or a muslim or a taoist or whatever says the same thing to me how do I decide? Remember you're talking to someone on the other side of a the fence. The Just-Try-It doesn't cut it especially since I've already been on your side and hated it.

 

[Crashfreak]

And when a christian or a mormon or a muslim or a taoist or whatever says the same thing to me how do I decide? Remember you're talking to someone on the other side of a the fence. The Just-Try-It doesn't cut it especially since I've already been on your side and hated it.

Spyr it seems like you have made up your mind about, there is nothing that can convince you otherwise....or so it seems from this thread. To me God is evident constantly, and I cannot but believe in him. I find it so very strange that people can believe so easily in a huge flaming ball of gas billions of light years away which looks like a pin prick in the sky because a scientist says so...(I am not saying this is untrue)...no real evidence is needed on their part, most people so easily believe this yet have no comprehension of how or why the scientists came to that conclusion. (I am not saying you are like this spyr)....yet tell someone about God and they cannot believe you even with all the evidence that the world is so full of. And it is true, why would I believe in my particular god....ie. God of the Christian Bible....to me that is also self-evident and very much like believing in a flaming ball of gas billions of light years away. But you do not believe, and I am not going to try and make you and neither should anybody else. It is your free choice, and if you ever decide to follow God, don't just try it. God doesn't want people to try it out, he wants them to follow him, and love him.

You are not going to find your questions on the internet and especially not in this forum. Why don't you go speak to people face to face? Speak to a muslim, buddhist, toaist....speak to who ever just go out there and find out what you are looking for. Instead of trying to argue away things in a forum....go and get find it, because God is looking for you and if you look for him it will help things out quite a bit.

All in all I do hope that you find what you are looking for, and in finding that you are happy with what you have decided. But don't look for it here.

 

[Spyr]

I try to look at this way when I begin to doubt. I know that there is nothing someone can hand me or show me that can make me believe in my God. But I do know that I have to have faith. I look at it like...Ok I read stories about ancient Greeks in my history book in school. I was not there to witness those accounts...but I believe them. Why? Because I have a certain degree of "faith" in those writers. It's the same with God and Jesus. I was not there to witness the accounts taken in the Bible. But I believe them....because of faith. Sometimes there is no physical evidence to make us believe something. Sometimes we have to make ourselves believe it and I think if someone is open to and wanting to learn about God...God will take it from there. As long as you're still open to him...He'll be teaching and showing you things...and you'll know....you feel it in your heart. No one can hand you anything...so don't expect people too. Sometimes we have to make ourselves stop trying to look for evidence...I know I did. Faith is what you need sir. And if it helps any to know...the Bible has NEVER EVER been proven false. Nothing about it...not a single word has EVER been proven false. Athiests and others have tried...and many have converted to Christianity after finding that they couldn't. Just read the word...plant the seed...and God will make it grow.

I appreciate your post, I really do. I enjoy honesty and straight-forwardness but if you've read my other posts in this thread you should be aware that for me (and others in the world I'm quite sure) that isn't enough. As I've said many times before and probably will have to later it's all well and good for someone who beleives to say Try it Out, but for those of us on the outside there are more choices than just christianity which in itselfs demands me to be uncertain and believe by faith. I really do understand where you're comming from, I've been on your side before and have said the very same thing to others and have even convinced them to follow jesus, but now that I'm out of it and have begun to scrutinize the person I used to be I find that I really had no foundation other than the one people convinced me I had and my own denial of the inconsistences in christianity.


So just a message to all those on the verge of posting more messages of Just-Try-It please understand that I enjoy reading your posts but it really won't have much of an affect but to confirm to me that you believe what you're saying.

 

[Spyr]

Spyr it seems like you have made up your mind about, there is nothing that can convince you otherwise....or so it seems from this thread. To me God is evident constantly, and I cannot but believe in him. I find it so very strange that people can believe so easily in a huge flaming ball of gas billions of light years away which looks like a pin prick in the sky because a scientist says so...(I am not saying this is untrue)...no real evidence is needed on their part, most people so easily believe this yet have no comprehension of how or why the scientists came to that conclusion. (I am not saying you are like this spyr)....yet tell someone about God and they cannot believe you even with all the evidence that the world is so full of. And it is true, why would I believe in my particular god....ie. God of the Christian Bible....to me that is also self-evident and very much like believing in a flaming ball of gas billions of light years away. But you do not believe, and I am not going to try and make you and neither should anybody else. It is your free choice, and if you ever decide to follow God, don't just try it. God doesn't want people to try it out, he wants them to follow him, and love him.

You are not going to find your questions on the internet and especially not in this forum. Why don't you go speak to people face to face? Speak to a muslim, buddhist, toaist....speak to who ever just go out there and find out what you are looking for. Instead of trying to argue away things in a forum....go and get find it, because God is looking for you and if you look for him it will help things out quite a bit.

All in all I do hope that you find what you are looking for, and in finding that you are happy with what you have decided. But don't look for it here.

Again, frankness and honesty is greatly respected. I've been waiting for someone to bring up the points you have.

Most definitely it's not up to you or anyone else to make me beleive in god nor would I charge you with this task. I do have my own beleifs but they aren't set in stone because as with all things I allow for the possibility that I could be wrong. The reason I opened this thread was to see what basis or foundation people base their own beliefs so that I may, per chance, happen upon an idea or way of thinking that I haven't seen before.

Now as I've said before this subject is of particular interest to me and I enjoy talking about it with others and it is of a topic that requires my full devotion to since it's concerning my soul. I have, on several and many occasions, entered into discussions and debates with priests and pastors and missionaries. I've been to temples and synagogues, churches. I've been to live debates and discussion groups, I've pestered literally hundreds of people regarding their faith. I read the bible frequently and prayed, yes prayed for the answers. I've searched for god in my heart and my soul and my mind. I continuously reevalute my position and take into consideration all the different point of views I can handle. I'm on a life-long search for the truth and will find it eventually. So worry not about me depending on this forum to believe in god, it is simply another avenue I chanced upon and I'm trying it out now to see if there are things I've over-looked.

Unfortunately I've only been hearing the same things I've heard all along (apart from a few exceptions) and I'm desperate for (a) real answer(s) to my queeries. I stubbornly adopt a defensive demeanor in order to force those willing to speak to be sure of what they say. It's a challenge in order to get the best possible response possible. If what you have to say can't help a complete skeptic (which I'm not really) then I don't consider it useful to my cause.

 

[gaweatherford]

The reason I started this thread is because I was tired of people telling me to accept it on faith, even a leap of faith must have some solid ledge from which to jump. It's this solidity I need and have been asking from people, simply something stronger than just a witnesses conviction. Is that an unreasonable demand? If so then god is asking more of me than I am able to give.

No, of course it is not unreasonable; but never evaluate the truth and context of Christianity by this forum. That in itself would be unreasonable and ultimately unfair to you. Reason I say that is because this forum is a platform to help guide you in the right direction and should never be given soul responsibility. The amount of soul searching, wisdom , knowledge, and edification, that you're attempting to quench here in this forum, is what's found in a church, where diligent teaching is done. The reason I'm bringing this up is because not everybody on this forum has a chance to say all they want to say. It eventually comes down to only you making the decision for you. That is not anything God will allow me to do for you. You should consider that a priviladge. God has'nt engineered faith to be a substantial ledge that man can take advantage of. What he has done is offer you witnesses, that are both now and from the past; some of which actually saw mortality resurrected itself, and some of which are persuaded to believe by the sheer dauntness of these disciples endeavors. Stop discrediting "the witnesses". You've got to keep an open mind to their accounts. For example:

The actual disciples of Christ (that lived with him) were:

Phillip- He was scourged and crucified
Matthew- He was nailed to the ground with spikes and beheaded
Jude- was beaten to death with sticks and clubs
Simon- was tortured and crucified
John (son of Zebedee)- was tortured and exiled
James (brother of John)- was beheaded
James- was pushed from the top of a house, then beaten to death
Andrew (Peters brother)- was hung on a cross for 3 days, before he died
Bartholomew- was beaten and skinned alive before being beheaded
Thomas- was speared with a javelin
Peter- was crucified upside down

Some people think that these men died for a lie. If the resurrection was a lie,
then these men had to know it. So they would not have only died in the way they did for the fun of it, but they would have died knowing that they're death was for a lie. That in itself should be very persuasive to you to want to understand what they knew. These men were witnesses to truth and were the only witnesses you have to the solid ledge you seek.

As for the validity of the bible, after reading the bible and rereading it and rereading it, if I come to the conclusion that the bulk of it if true but the rest is false obviously you'd disagree with me. However since the bible will only be fully complete and true and the end of the world how then can I make an informed decision as to wether it is in fact truthful in its entirety?

By testing it and trying it yourself. Unless you can tell the future, you don't have anything to compare to. How the present is unraveling, within accumulated learning you acheive through the Bible, is enough to keep even
the worst skeptics interest, providing they accept that it is at least possible.
That's why many of them reside here, at this forum (though many won't admit that).

I acknowledge your statement that I may be too small to understand the wisdom and workings of god. But then if that is the case how can I be held accountable for not following something I don't fully understand? If I must forsake completely understanding what god has planned or his will and take it on the basis of faith and with a grain of salt, how then can I be condemned if that isn't the path I am able to take?

The conception of salvation is very simple. It begins with you understanding that your existance is not based on something chance acheived. In the middle is when you realize that you have a debt to pay. And, at the end is when you show that you do actually understand. You understand a whole lot more than some people even bother to understand before they except Christ's debt for their salvation. If God is convicting you to understand, but yet you don't, it's not because he is'nt calling.....it's because you didn't go.

 

[brinny]

I'm posting this now because I've come to the end of my wit and I know no other place to look. I've been searching vigorously for a way back to Christianity because I miss the certainty I had when I loved God and now that I've fallen in love and will be getting married I don't want my fiancee to die and go to Hell nor would I want to bring children into this world if I don't even know what the rules are.

My request is simple: I would like someone to give me some concrete answer as to why I should beleive in God and why should I beleive he or she is truly good and holy. I am a man of science so if you try to convince me through feelings and emotions I'm afraid you'll be wasting your time. Give me evidence, unquestionable rational deductions or anything that would surely erase all doubt in my mind.

I'm pleading you to help me as a husband-to-be, a father hopefully and as a man in search of God.

The alternative may leave a bad taste in yer mouth on a forever-like basis..

Darkness..


it isn't til darkness
encompasses ya' that ya think
all could be lost forever
in just a blink

it comes so quietly,
stealthily ya see
cuz if ya saw it in all its 'glory'
you'd surely flee

cunning and lulling
comforting even
it closes the eyes
of the souls of men

Hoping to hide
the truth and light
it lulls souls to Nevermoreland
without even a fight

As the count rises
its ruthless captor surmises
the souls seen as prizes
amidst shouts of vic'try

With a whoop
and a holler
and a sneer
he takes his leisure
knowing there's more tomorrow

it ain't no biggie, says he
and oh so easy
cuz they
come to me

Ain't it plain to see?
men
don't wanna
be free

~brinny


*surreal captor....mighty in his grip, merciless in his grasp, his genius is that he conquers without having to put up a fight...*


Sorry Spyr, you inspired it. So I couldn't resist posting it.

Muchas gracias amigo.

 

[food4thought]

God has given us all the empirical evidence needed for faith in the Bible and nature. I struggle with my faith as well... why? Because part of me wants to sin, to not have to accept the rule of God. If I want to believe, God has given me everything I need in Scripture to know that YHWH is the only true God. If I want to live a life in rebellion to Him, I will constantly find fault with God because I want to. The question that you alone can answer is: why do I really doubt God... I know from personal experience that it is not the intellect, but the soul of man that rebels against God. My mind can be convinced of the truth of the Bible yet still find reasons to doubt because my desire to sin overshadows my desire for truth. You do not have to follow Jesus, pick up your cross, and die to your flesh unless you want to live to God. It is that simple. Sin is blinding you. I hope that you step back and consider the truth of this before (or after) you are offended by it.

 

[Spyr]

No, of course it is not unreasonable; but never evaluate the truth and context of Christianity by this forum. That in itself would be unreasonable and ultimately unfair to you. Reason I say that is because this forum is a platform to help guide you in the right direction and should never be given soul responsibility. The amount of soul searching, wisdom , knowledge, and edification, that you're attempting to quench here in this forum, is what's found in a church, where diligent teaching is done. The reason I'm bringing this up is because not everybody on this forum has a chance to say all they want to say. It eventually comes down to only you making the decision for you. That is not anything God will allow me to do for you. You should consider that a priviladge. God has'nt engineered faith to be a substantial ledge that man can take advantage of. What he has done is offer you witnesses, that are both now and from the past; some of which actually saw mortality resurrected itself, and some of which are persuaded to believe by the sheer dauntness of these disciples endeavors. Stop discrediting "the witnesses". You've got to keep an open mind to their accounts. For example:

The actual disciples of Christ (that lived with him) were:

Phillip- He was scourged and crucified
Matthew- He was nailed to the ground with spikes and beheaded
Jude- was beaten to death with sticks and clubs
Simon- was tortured and crucified
John (son of Zebedee)- was tortured and exiled
James (brother of John)- was beheaded
James- was pushed from the top of a house, then beaten to death
Andrew (Peters brother)- was hung on a cross for 3 days, before he died
Bartholomew- was beaten and skinned alive before being beheaded
Thomas- was speared with a javelin
Peter- was crucified upside down

Some people think that these men died for a lie. If the resurrection was a lie,
then these men had to know it. So they would not have only died in the way they did for the fun of it, but they would have died knowing that they're death was for a lie. That in itself should be very persuasive to you to want to understand what they knew. These men were witnesses to truth and were the only witnesses you have to the solid ledge you seek.

I completely agree with you on the first part, this forum should not be my sole deciding factor, and it isn't. In all honesty I enjoy debate and I find it very relaxing and satisfying to speak to people with different views than I have. But I must confront you on your second part, do you believe dying for a cause is sufficient, or even an accurate, testimony to the validity of a religion? If so then a dangerous precedent will be set since there have been many, MANY people who have died for what they believe to be true. Do teenagers in purple suits going on a space trip on Haley's Comet ring a bell? And let's not forget suicide bombers. And from that I may even be inclined to say that my willingness to take another's life is proof enough of my dedication to a faith. Does that then give credit to my cause? I'm not asking you to answer this, I'm just saying.

By testing it and trying it yourself. Unless you can tell the future, you don't have anything to compare to. How the present is unraveling, within accumulated learning you acheive through the Bible, is enough to keep even
the worst skeptics interest, providing they accept that it is at least possible.
That's why many of them reside here, at this forum (though many won't admit that).

I have tested it, and I'm continuing to test it; that'll never stop. And to date I've reached to the point where I believe much that is written in it. However I don't accept all of it for reasons I won't go into here since it touches upon too many subjects. I'll be posting threads on them though to be sure.

The conception of salvation is very simple. It begins with you understanding that your existance is not based on something chance acheived. In the middle is when you realize that you have a debt to pay. And, at the end is when you show that you do actually understand. You understand a whole lot more than some people even bother to understand before they except Christ's debt for their salvation. If God is convicting you to understand, but yet you don't, it's not because he is'nt calling.....it's because you didn't go.

I once believed we arrived here by chance but after further investigation it eventually became obvious that such a chance is not only in the realm of impossibility, but that to believe that would require more denial than I credit christians with (that was just a joke not an insult). Although simply because there is a creator doesn't mean your god is the one who created it. Do you understand where I'm coming from? I won't jump steps, I won't assume anything if I can help it.

 

[newbride02]

First of all it's Spyr and not Spry. Secondly I really don't appreciate that post. Forgive me for not being completely nonchalant but the issue at hand is one of great importance, and the fact that there is a threat to my immortal soul which can be doomed to eternal torment has put a tad bit of an edge into my conversations. The subject itself hits to the core of me and if I'm not an easy one to persuade perhaps in lieu of giving up or stating that I'm a lost cause dead-set against belief in god, maybe you should explain to me (for that is the purpose of this thread) why you beleive in god. Your answer might be a persuasive one and once converted I'll surely not plague the world with my stubborness.

Forgive me for insulting you. I suppose I left that post out of frusteration. Everyone here is giving you much of their time and energy and love in the situation. You are shooting us all down saying "I'm not buying that" or "thats not scientific enough for me".

I guess I feel like you are missing the WHOLE POINT...God is NOT scientific. Believing in God, in something you havn't seen is what faith is based on. No one in the world has 'proof' that God exisits. You request something that is not possible.

To answere your question on why I believe in God, I was lucky enough to have been raised since birth in a christian home. I was taught to believe in God since a small child. Now I have grown and I have wandered from time to time. However, I never lost my faith that God does exsist. There have been things that have happend that you deny God's hand.
Some examples, once my grandmother wanted my dad to go to church with her. Dad said he did not have any gas, if only he had a dollar for gas (this was quite a while ago) he'd go to church. He hung up and went out on the porch to get some air, and there it was, a dollar bill on the ground. So, he hurried up and went to church. Talk about a test from God.
Another example, a good christian friend of mine was in an awful car wreck a couple of months ago, the roof of the car was down below the steering wheel, yet, everyone walked out without a scratch. You can chalk it up to science if you want, but there is no doubt in my head, it was God!

 

[food4thought]

I must confront you on your second part, do you believe dying for a cause is sufficient, or even an accurate, testimony to the validity of a religion? If so then a dangerous precedent will be set since there have been many, MANY people who have died for what they believe to be true. Do teenagers in purple suits going on a space trip on Haley's Comet ring a bell? And let's not forget suicide bombers.

You misunderstand the testimony of the Apostles. They were first hand eyewitnesses of the resurrected Jesus. If they had never seen Jesus resurrected, they knew they were completely lost at their death, yet none of them recanted. Even when forced to watch those they loved be tortured and killed before them, the couldn't recant, because they knew Jesus was resurrected. Do you see how this differs from a misguided belief in something? They would know for certain if they were false witnesses of Jesus' resurrection, yet they didn't recant.

How many of the UFO cultists would have killed themselves if they knew for certain it was false? How many of the suicide bombers would kill themselves for paradise if they knew for certain that they would enter hell, not paradise? I don't speak in this case for the individuals who kill themselves and others simply out of hatred, without any anticipation of Paradise. The point is, the Apostles were Jewish Theists that believed in hell, judgement, and eternal life; and if they died for a lie, what would they hope for in eternity? Yet none of them recanted. Not one.

Very powerful evidence, but still not absolute proof. You will wait until a split second after you die for absolute proof that the God of the Bible is the One true God... but then it would be too late. Please don't put a burden of proof on God that you don't put on your next breath. How do you know for certain that someone didn't just release poison gas into the ventilation system? You cannot know in time, but the evidence is very strong that this is not true, so you take a breath. FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, JUST BREATH, MAN!

 

[food4thought]

I'm sorry Spyr, my last two posts were a bit too forcefull when take back to back like that. Of course I respect your questions, but I wanted to refocus your attention from your mind to your soul, which is really the issue. Please accept my apologies.

 

[food4thought]

What I do beleive is to follow the life god would have us follow, we'd have to sacrifice a little of ourselves, give up our will, and subject ourselves to the will of the lord. In which case we would be denying ourselves to a certain extent. So it would less self-delusion and more akin to repression of our, let's say, natural selves.

To be a good father you will have to die to yourself and put the needsd of your wife and child ahead of your "natural" self. Look around at the world that our "natural selves" has destroyed, look at the lives of those who have been given over to their "natural selves". God is wise. He knows we cannot "repress" our nature, so He provides a way to be forgiven our failure, and also provides power to not just repress, but put to death that nature.

Hope that helps.

 

[gaweatherford]

You misunderstand the testimony of the Apostles. They were first hand eyewitnesses of the resurrected Jesus. If they had never seen Jesus resurrected, they knew they were completely lost at their death, yet none of them recanted. Even when forced to watch those they loved be tortured and killed before them, the couldn't recant, because they knew Jesus was resurrected. Do you see how this differs from a misguided belief in something? They would know for certain if they were false witnesses of Jesus' resurrection, yet they didn't recant.

To add to that, and even more compelling was that the fact that the disciples were Jewish and expected the prophesied messiah to NOT die on a cross, but to evict the Romans and rule the world from Jerusalem. When he did'nt, they left discouraged and hid themselves for fear and ridicule (remember, for the time that they were Jesus's disciples, they had bragged how he was God and could'nt die). In days or weeks following......"something"..... happened that caused them to come out.....dieing like martyr's. That is evidence.

 

[JJB]

Spyr, Have you heard of Sadhu Sundar Singh? Here's a website about him. It's a fascinating story of a hindu sikh who came to believe in Jesus. That might help you see some more about the truth of the God of the Bible ....

www.sadhusundarsingh.homestead.com/files/introduction.html

 

[akasmom]

try Ravi Zacharias' website, too. Good apologetics.

 

[Spyr]

The alternative may leave a bad taste in yer mouth on a forever-like basis..

Darkness..


it isn't til darkness
encompasses ya' that ya think
all could be lost forever
in just a blink

it comes so quietly,
stealthily ya see
cuz if ya saw it in all its 'glory'
you'd surely flee

cunning and lulling
comforting even
it closes the eyes
of the souls of men

Hoping to hide
the truth and light
it lulls souls to Nevermoreland
without even a fight

As the count rises
its ruthless captor surmises
the souls seen as prizes
amidst shouts of vic'try

With a whoop
and a holler
and a sneer
he takes his leisure
knowing there's more tomorrow

it ain't no biggie, says he
and oh so easy
cuz they
come to me

Ain't it plain to see?
men
don't wanna
be free

~brinny


*surreal captor....mighty in his grip, merciless in his grasp, his genius is that he conquers without having to put up a fight...*


Sorry Spyr, you inspired it. So I couldn't resist posting it.

Muchas gracias amigo.

Wow, that was nice and completely unexpected. Thanks!

 

[brinny]

Wow, that was nice and completely unexpected. Thanks!

Hahahaa! You're most welcome. I felt it only fair to share it with you since you got the wheels a/movin' in me head.

 

[Spyr]

God has given us all the empirical evidence needed for faith in the Bible and nature. I struggle with my faith as well... why? Because part of me wants to sin, to not have to accept the rule of God. If I want to believe, God has given me everything I need in Scripture to know that YHWH is the only true God. If I want to live a life in rebellion to Him, I will constantly find fault with God because I want to. The question that you alone can answer is: why do I really doubt God... I know from personal experience that it is not the intellect, but the soul of man that rebels against God. My mind can be convinced of the truth of the Bible yet still find reasons to doubt because my desire to sin overshadows my desire for truth. You do not have to follow Jesus, pick up your cross, and die to your flesh unless you want to live to God. It is that simple. Sin is blinding you. I hope that you step back and consider the truth of this before (or after) you are offended by it.

No offense taken, and you bring up an interesting point. I'll admit it, I don't want to follow god. I don't like the idea of god, I hate the idea of giving up my will for that of another (I can be very Ann Rand-ish), and I would definitely find any excuse to not follow him... well, any good excuse and I think that's a crucial difference.

I may be a tough cookie but the unlike others who merely cling to their feeble objections or who prefer not to think about it, I have dived head first into the pool in a search for the truth. It is through the searching that I have found questions that previously I would have ignored or dismissed as irrelevant but now find myself studying in the hopes that I'll find the truth I so desire.

So yes I agree with you, I do desire to sin but not in the way you might think. I want the freedom to choose my own life and govern my own affairs instead of giving way for the king on his throne.

 

[Spyr]

Forgive me for insulting you. I suppose I left that post out of frusteration. Everyone here is giving you much of their time and energy and love in the situation. You are shooting us all down saying "I'm not buying that" or "thats not scientific enough for me".

I guess I feel like you are missing the WHOLE POINT...God is NOT scientific. Believing in God, in something you havn't seen is what faith is based on. No one in the world has 'proof' that God exisits. You request something that is not possible.

To answere your question on why I believe in God, I was lucky enough to have been raised since birth in a christian home. I was taught to believe in God since a small child. Now I have grown and I have wandered from time to time. However, I never lost my faith that God does exsist. There have been things that have happend that you deny God's hand.
Some examples, once my grandmother wanted my dad to go to church with her. Dad said he did not have any gas, if only he had a dollar for gas (this was quite a while ago) he'd go to church. He hung up and went out on the porch to get some air, and there it was, a dollar bill on the ground. So, he hurried up and went to church. Talk about a test from God.
Another example, a good christian friend of mine was in an awful car wreck a couple of months ago, the roof of the car was down below the steering wheel, yet, everyone walked out without a scratch. You can chalk it up to science if you want, but there is no doubt in my head, it was God!

Forgive me as well, I should have been more patient. It's just that so many people have a problem with me asking an important question. It just seems like if someone doesn't want to asnwer me they can just pass the thread by. It's almost a blow that someone would spend their time posting a message just to tell me to shut up (I know you weren't saying that, I'm generalizing).

On a more important note I should like to say that I'm not really looking for scientific proof. No one is going to mix some solutions in a test tube and say Ah yes, there's god. I also realize that that faith is all important when talking about christianity. But there has to be SOMETHING other than feelings one can base their faith on. There has to be something that leads you to have faith. There has to be something to push you along, something concrete, something... just something! That's what I'm looking for, what's the foundation of your and anyone's faith?

As for the story with your grandfather, would you consider that maybe he found the dollar outside because he was suppose to go to church but not for the purpose of praising god but rather for something else? Let me be more clear. Perhaps he had to go to church for a different reason, maybe he said something to someone or prevented something with his presence or caused something to happen that has absolutely nothing to do with god. I'm not saying for sure it had nothing to do with the will of god but just consider What If?

 

[WashedClean]

So yes I agree with you, I do desire to sin but not in the way you might think. I want the freedom to choose my own life and govern my own affairs instead of giving way for the king on his throne.

And in the end, God will respect your choice so when you die, you won't be in His presence. But there is still time to change that because you're alive!

You know, I've read through all the posts here and I believe you are sincerely seeking. But your sin has blinded you, as someone else pointed out. I can only say that I knew my whole life that I was a sinner. What I didn't understand was that it separated me from God and I had offended Him. The Holy Spirit gave me this revelation. Jesus said that the Holy Spirit would convict the world of sin. And the Holy Spirit draws men to Christ. Have you asked God to reveal Himself to you through the Holy Spirit? I would pray for saving faith, because you're talking a lot about faith as if it's something we as Christians conjure up ourselves. I believe faith is a gift from God. There is no doubt in my mind that I am blood bought and saved. The Holy Spirit testifies this to my spirit.

Hope I'm making sense...

God bless you and I pray that you will truly find saving faith in Jesus.

WashedClean