Why should I beleive in God?

[Spyr]

I agree that people can be quite powerful on their own but not to a large degree, My granddad used to believe in mind over body(which is basically what you're saying) very strongly and he could do some pretty cool things i.e. withstanding pain but a few years ago he dropped a chainsaw on his foot and sliced it open, he lost a huge amount of blood but he wouldn't let my mum take him to the hospital because he believed he could over come it with his mind... well he lost so much blood that he passed out and my mum rushed him to the hospital when he got there they found out that just one or two more min's and he would have bled to death. When my sight was healed I just had to pray once but my granddad had a huge amount of faith that he could heal himself but nothing happened so I am sceptical of "mind over body".

That seems like very specious reasoning. Simply because someone couldn't do something that they beleived could happen doesn't prove that it isn't possible. It simply shows that your grand father wasn't able to do it. It would be the same thing if I said I prayed to god to save my sister but he didn't so god doesn't exist.

 

[woman.at.the.well]

I'm posting this now because I've come to the end of my wit and I know no other place to look. I've been searching vigorously for a way back to Christianity because I miss the certainty I had when I loved God and now that I've fallen in love and will be getting married I don't want my fiancee to die and go to Hell nor would I want to bring children into this world if I don't even know what the rules are.

My request is simple: I would like someone to give me some concrete answer as to why I should beleive in God and why should I beleive he or she is truly good and holy. I am a man of science so if you try to convince me through feelings and emotions I'm afraid you'll be wasting your time. Give me evidence, unquestionable rational deductions or anything that would surely erase all doubt in my mind.

I'm pleading you to help me as a husband-to-be, a father hopefully and as a man in search of God.

In answer to your OP Spyr . . .I believe you've already answered your own question. It sounds to me like you just need reassurance that Christianity is the right thing - even though your heart knows it's right. I believe you just need the logical side of you to know that you know that you know. And all I can add to that is, ask Him to show you, not us. I'm sure there is honestly no explanation mere man/woman could give you that could satiate your logic. After all, God resides in our hearts - and that's not very scientific. I really do hope and pray that helps some - and that you receive the answers you are looking for. May God bless you abundantly in your marriage, with a quiver full, and with health and prosperity!

 

[Spyr]

In answer to your OP Spyr . . .I believe you've already answered your own question. It sounds to me like you just need reassurance that Christianity is the right thing - even though your heart knows it's right. I believe you just need the logical side of you to know that you know that you know. And all I can add to that is, ask Him to show you, not us. I'm sure there is honestly no explanation mere man/woman could give you that could satiate your logic. After all, God resides in our hearts - and that's not very scientific. I really do hope and pray that helps some - and that you receive the answers you are looking for. May God bless you abundantly in your marriage, with a quiver full, and with health and prosperity!

Alright I better repeat this because it seems like I made a mistake earlier. I originally beleived in god but in living The Life and following him I realized I wasn't following anyone. It's because I didn't feel him and came out of my self-induced delusion that the conviction is no longer in my heart. Like I said before, it's the same thing when I stopped beleiving in Santa. Just because I had the conviction of his existence doesn't mean he did.

 

[gaweatherford]

Look at your choice of words, it's almost to the point of an insult saying that we're simple creations. But more importantly even if we are merely creations and owe worship and allegiance to our creator, what makes you beleive that the god you serve is the right one? And that's the root of my dilema. If I'm to accept what your saying and give up my will to another how then can I be certain that yours is the right one? You could be wasting your life following the wrong deity.

Many have told me that they can feel it, they just know that the god they love is the one true god... but i've heard that from muslims and orthodox christians and catholics and mormons and reformed mormons and jehovah's witnesses and boudhists and wiccans... do you see what I mean? Your, or anyone else's, personal conviction is simply not enough no matter how many eloquent scriptures or proverbs or sayings might be held up as proof. Please understand that I'm not insulting you and I have a great respect for your beleifs but look around at all the other choices there are, the decision making is terribly daunting.

I understand what you're saying and I appreciate the respect you have for everyones religion. The issue you pose is "daunting" as well as frustrating. You obviously care a great deal for doing the right thing by you as well as by God.

Most of all the religions you listed (and even some you did'nt) exerpt that they are worshipping the only true God. So, it may be fair to say that the same "God" is the point for all their worship. Granted, these differant religions
give God a differant look in ways, but if the beliefs center around an omnipotence, omnipresent, etc., deity, then they're talking about the same entity. From that point, as an individual tries to figure out who (of all religions) best represents God truely, becomes a matter of relavance to truth to who God must be.

Now what that is trying to say is: Your religious belief should imply "fitness"
for appropriateness to you as "the created". In other words, you MUST perceive it as a logical connection between you and God, before it can be legitamate to you. I think that is a fair way of putting what we "all" insist on, as intelligent beings, for our religious beliefs to adhere to.

The most tangible evidence to us, can often escape us, because we take it for granted. That being creation itself: If we're not careful, we all can become numb to the "wow" factor for life and existance, because our presense of mind does not command our interest beyond mundane expectations. Christianity and the Bible is the largest accountment that describes an infinite God's message to a finite creation. It is very intricate in details and offers a check and balance system to every dilema in your life; so much so, that it will expound "correctness" and "truth" to you, as very accurate relavance to that which is right. Every good thing (charities, free will, justice, fairness to all, forgiveness, family, etc.) evolves from the teachings in the Bible. Christianity can remove all the enigmas within life: not because it's the perfect anecdote either; but because it is a truth that is relavant to everything good, which in itself is a testimony for you, that it was meant for you to live on (here and hereafter).

It will always boil down to your own observation. That is the intelligent thing to do. Rate all of the fruits from "other" beliefs.....that is the true sign to take note of. Do they reprove that nature of man, that destructs? Do they excite your character for betterment and fellowship with God? Are you pleased or shocked at what they believe? Is what they believe realistic to your own nature?

Hope I've helped some?

 

[bobbichan]

I've always believed that making the decision to accept Christ or believe in God is a personal decision. It shouldn't be based on what anyone tells you. It's a journey that you need to go through yourself. People are here to help you along your way, but by no means are they here to make you do anything, you know?

I haven't lived as long as some people on here, and I haven't been a Christian all that long either (almost 10 years, and most of that time I was really lukewarm) At any rate, i've experienced things in my own life that confirm my beliefs and wash way any bit out doubt that I may have had. God may not give you miraculous signs like a talking donkey or burning bush, though He certianly could. Sometimes God just shows us in our everyday lives, with everyday things.

If you search for the truth you will find it, providing you're looking in the right place. =)

 

[The thinker]

I think the bottom line is that Christianity is a Religion and not a science and therefore although you can proove the existance of God through experiance, feelings, profecy and emotion it can't really be 100% prooved through science which just adds more to the wonder and amazement of Christianity... for me anyway. If it was a science and it could be easily prooved without a shred of doubt via science then there would be no faith involved and therefore your love for God would be meaningless. Like a common fact, everyone knows that Bush is the president of the USA and you don't need any faith to believe in it you just know it and it becomes just another meaningless fact in your life because you don't have to activly seek answers its just plain fact. Our sole purpose as the human race is simply to love and praise God but if he was just another fact in your life... like everyone knows that waterfalls exist and even though they are powerful and beautiful there is no element of faith in it which makes it meaningless.

I hope you are getting the point I am trying to put accross... Its almost impossible for anyone here to proove God exists with out you activly trying to follow him and trying to re-gain your faith.

I know what it feels like to loose your faith, I felt a very similer thing to the feelings your were describing and as a sort of last ditch attetmpt went to a Christin concert and it ended up changing my life, maby you just need somthing to "jolt" you back to faith and I pray you will recive it. After you loose faith, when you re-gain it, if you ever do it will feel so much more special than before, but its up to you and what you want to do.
.....

 

[tuba_peter]

Why should you believe? God is the almighty. He is the king of all kings. He is the alfa omega. Every time you breathe, you breathe him in. He is the creator. If you don't belive in him, then there is nothing on this earth that will fill the empty void that will overwelm your body. If you don't believe in god, then there isn't enything to believe in but satin, and if you believe in satin, the devil, then you have damned youself to hell.

 

[Spyr]

The most tangible evidence to us, can often escape us, because we take it for granted. That being creation itself: If we're not careful, we all can become numb to the "wow" factor for life and existance, because our presense of mind does not command our interest beyond mundane expectations. Christianity and the Bible is the largest accountment that describes an infinite God's message to a finite creation. It is very intricate in details and offers a check and balance system to every dilema in your life; so much so, that it will expound "correctness" and "truth" to you, as very accurate relavance to that which is right. Every good thing (charities, free will, justice, fairness to all, forgiveness, family, etc.) evolves from the teachings in the Bible. Christianity can remove all the enigmas within life: not because it's the perfect anecdote either; but because it is a truth that is relavant to everything good, which in itself is a testimony for you, that it was meant for you to live on (here and hereafter).

It will always boil down to your own observation. That is the intelligent thing to do. Rate all of the fruits from "other" beliefs.....that is the true sign to take note of. Do they reprove that nature of man, that destructs? Do they excite your character for betterment and fellowship with God? Are you pleased or shocked at what they believe? Is what they believe realistic to your own nature?

Hope I've helped some?

It would seem that this debate could go on for awhile (which is alright considering the importance of the subject matter) and I will, and must, speak my part. You promote the acurateness of the bible and hold it up as evidence (or at least a fact worthy of serious acknowledgment) of the truthfulness and I assume devine inspiration of the bible. And I completely agree with you that the bible contains much useful information about how to lead our lives, it reveals much about the world and it's working and is generally a guide for the kind of life set out in it. But what I'd like to point out is that amidst the fulfilled prophecies and wise advice on healthy living there are also discrepencies that have, at least for me, reduced the bible from a holy book of unquestionable truth to a collection of works with synthesized time-tested notions. Let me clarify:

There are many inconsistencies in the bible and with the whole notion of a christian god. Why is god so active in the old testament but after god dies his actions are largely personal? Shouldn't the truth be so plain and powerful that there would be no need for testimonies? If indeed the bible is the word of god does his meaning really have to be translated or interpreted, and if it does why do the interpretations differ so and how does one decide which is the correct one? If god is our creator nd does in fact love us and cherish us the way he says in the bible than doesn't he owe us more than just a book and missionaries? And if god is such a magnificent powerful being why is it he created a world in which only the torture and death of his son would save humanity (of which he knew he would have to do beofre he even created anything)? And if indeed we are living gods plan and everything is going as it should (because who among us can really derail his will?) then what's the use of us doing anything since his will will be done in full no matter what which also means those doomed to hell have already been sentenced since the beginning of the world...

Do you see what I'm saying? Once one watches christianity objectively as oppose to shooing away doubt and letting one be filled with peace and goodness it's hard to see why anyone would expect me to follow him.

 

[Spyr]

I've always believed that making the decision to accept Christ or believe in God is a personal decision. It shouldn't be based on what anyone tells you. It's a journey that you need to go through yourself. People are here to help you along your way, but by no means are they here to make you do anything, you know?

I haven't lived as long as some people on here, and I haven't been a Christian all that long either (almost 10 years, and most of that time I was really lukewarm) At any rate, i've experienced things in my own life that confirm my beliefs and wash way any bit out doubt that I may have had. God may not give you miraculous signs like a talking donkey or burning bush, though He certianly could. Sometimes God just shows us in our everyday lives, with everyday things.

If you search for the truth you will find it, providing you're looking in the right place. =)

I've searched for the truth and found a path that I beleive leads to it but it certainly hasn't been christianity. As is, god doesn't seem to have any interest in me. I can hear the comments already that I'm not looking properly or hard enough or not paying attention to the signs. But one can find signs for anything, anything at all, and with enough feeling and denial anything is possible.

 

[Spyr]

I think the bottom line is that Christianity is a Religion and not a science and therefore although you can proove the existance of God through experiance, feelings, profecy and emotion it can't really be 100% prooved through science which just adds more to the wonder and amazement of Christianity... for me anyway. If it was a science and it could be easily prooved without a shred of doubt via science then there would be no faith involved and therefore your love for God would be meaningless. Like a common fact, everyone knows that Bush is the president of the USA and you don't need any faith to believe in it you just know it and it becomes just another meaningless fact in your life because you don't have to activly seek answers its just plain fact. Our sole purpose as the human race is simply to love and praise God but if he was just another fact in your life... like everyone knows that waterfalls exist and even though they are powerful and beautiful there is no element of faith in it which makes it meaningless.

I hope you are getting the point I am trying to put accross... Its almost impossible for anyone here to proove God exists with out you activly trying to follow him and trying to re-gain your faith.

I know what it feels like to loose your faith, I felt a very similer thing to the feelings your were describing and as a sort of last ditch attetmpt went to a Christin concert and it ended up changing my life, maby you just need somthing to "jolt" you back to faith and I pray you will recive it. After you loose faith, when you re-gain it, if you ever do it will feel so much more special than before, but its up to you and what you want to do.
.....

I do understand what your saying and you know what? I wouldn't even need 100% proff to beleive in god. But what many, if not most people tell me when approched with this subject, is that I just have to try. Give him a chance and he'll show himself which is a statement which just belittles the situation because this isn't a jacket a salesman is trying to sell me where, if i choose the wrong one, just wont fit right and i'll have to get a new one. This is a religion, beleif, that requires me to give up my free will and to change drastically the way I live and the values I live by. It isn't a time-share in the Hamptons but a choice between heaven and hell, if even. Do you understand why I can't trust my emotions in such a case?

 

[newbride02]

I feel like this spry guy is just set against believing in God. He doesn't want to come to God, he wants to argue his point that God doesn't exsist, and be difficult. He has asked for scienfic proof and no 'emotional testamonies" What exactly do you want? Do you want Jesus in the flesh to show up at your door?? Will you even believe then or will you write it off as some crazy person dressed up and pretending??

I guess you'll have to figure it out on your own spry as no one here seems to be able to match your great wisdom in the matter.

 

[gaweatherford]

There are many inconsistencies in the bible and with the whole notion of a christian god. Why is god so active in the old testament but after god dies his actions are largely personal?

I will attempt to give you my opinion here , but you may want to rephrase the question, because I don't understand what you're refering to about God dieing
in the Old Testament?

Shouldn't the truth be so plain and powerful that there would be no need for testimonies?

No, absolutely not....at least not in the sense that you are referring to. You're not giving a wiser than wise God enough credit to be smarter than you. The price to pay by holding your hand and pulling you into the light would be too cheapened within the course of the coaxing you prefered. I know that if you were my child, and I thought you're devotion was coaxable then I would have a plan that kept me neutral in your motives. Honestly, you have to admit that If Christ appeared on CNN tonight and demonstrated that all truths of the Bible are real, then most all of the world are going to want to join the wagon. Faith alone is always required up front to establish your belief in God for God to establish belief in you. The whole premise of the relationship is for you to let go of that "center" that self capacitates itself with self realization through reasoning. That particular "loyalty" stresses your own individual dignity and worth. Being part of, the God of the universe's eternal family, is not just everyday royalty. Faith must be the first step by you.....after that, all things are added. "Seek ye first the kingdom of God, then all things will be added unto you" (Luke 12:31)

If indeed the bible is the word of god does his meaning really have to be translated or interpreted, and if it does why do the interpretations differ so and how does one decide which is the correct one?

The only qualifications to understand the Bible is for you to be able to read
and tell truth from false. It is a guide book from a God that exists in a dimension without space and time to a people affected by space and time. A one line sentence from God's word could need 1000 years to transpire before the full intent of his word is realized. If the Bible were written in "full" present tense, for the generation in that time, that it was written in, then it would only apply for a short matter of years in the earth's history. The Bible's truths has to last an undetermined amount of years for a lot of generations and customs. It is ingenuisly crafted by God, in that it does exactly that. The Bible stands the test of time, and reveals more and more truths as it goes along. Here again, the simple application, "that God is wiser than wise when it comes to a human", should not be overlooked. As for why other beliefs differ..I bow and humbly say to you, "because they are not as intelligent and/or are politically biased with alterior motives other than the Bibles content"

If god is our creator nd does in fact love us and cherish us the way he says in the bible than doesn't he owe us more than just a book and missionaries?

God left you with his grace (grace being here- that God paid your penalty for sin himself, because you were'nt justifyably suitable to do so), and that should be sufficient for you. In other words, we are all very, very, very, very, very, very, very lucky God went to bat for us.

And if god is such a magnificent powerful being why is it he created a world in which only the torture and death of his son would save humanity (of which he knew he would have to do beofre he even created anything)?...

To prove his love to you in a way that could not be overcome by doubt. It satisfied the judicial branch of God's judgement against man's will, while commending his love to you in spite of yourself. Evidently it has had an enough impact on you to perplex you enough to ask it. Shock and awe goes a long way in getting someone's attention.

And if indeed we are living gods plan and everything is going as it should (because who among us can really derail his will?) then what's the use of us doing anything since his will will be done in full no matter what which also means those doomed to hell have already been sentenced since the beginning of the world...

These groups of questions seem very simplistic for a direct answer you can understand and in some ways understanding how they can be a question at all is as paradoxal as understanding that of a blackhole in space. We know that they should exist, but exactly how, why, and to what extent is a mystery we may not be able to comprehend. Being omnipresent we know does exist with a God capable of creating a universe, but to what extent is an enigma for life, not God. We are inside looking out and the observations you've noted make us look very small indeed.......and our size, in comparison to God......does not demand an answer for us. We are not the general manager of the universe.....God is.

 

[JJB]

Spyr, do you think that all Christians are just full of self-delusion?

 

[akasmom]

Do you see what I'm saying? Once one watches christianity objectively as oppose to shooing away doubt and letting one be filled with peace and goodness it's hard to see why anyone would expect me to follow him.

Do you see what you're saying? Dude, shoo away the doubt, let Him fill you with peace and goodness and it'll all be good!

 

[akasmom]

I've searched for the truth and found a path that I beleive leads to it but it certainly hasn't been christianity. As is, god doesn't seem to have any interest in me. I can hear the comments already that I'm not looking properly or hard enough or not paying attention to the signs. But one can find signs for anything, anything at all, and with enough feeling and denial anything is possible.

Do you believe any of Jesus' teachings? Love thy neighbor, cast the first stone if you are without sin...any? Well, to paraphrase CS Lewis, Jesus doen't leave us the room to believe he is a great moral teacher - He claimed to be the Way, the Truth and the Life, and there was no way to the Father but through Him. Great moral teachers don't say things like that. Either He is who He says He is or He's a complete meglomaniac!

He is the Way. If you have found a path and it doesn't lead to Him, it's not because you're on the right path it's because you stopped and need to pick up and go further. You can argue, look for proof, and post all you like, but at the end of the day you need to just choose to believe, regardless of everything that speaks against it. To paraphrase Lewis again, the Kingdomn of darkness is most threatened when a believer has lost all reason for hope and continues to believe anyway.

 

[kelsey2008]

I try to look at this way when I begin to doubt. I know that there is nothing someone can hand me or show me that can make me believe in my God. But I do know that I have to have faith. I look at it like...Ok I read stories about ancient Greeks in my history book in school. I was not there to witness those accounts...but I believe them. Why? Because I have a certain degree of "faith" in those writers. It's the same with God and Jesus. I was not there to witness the accounts taken in the Bible. But I believe them....because of faith. Sometimes there is no physical evidence to make us believe something. Sometimes we have to make ourselves believe it and I think if someone is open to and wanting to learn about God...God will take it from there. As long as you're still open to him...He'll be teaching and showing you things...and you'll know....you feel it in your heart. No one can hand you anything...so don't expect people too. Sometimes we have to make ourselves stop trying to look for evidence...I know I did. Faith is what you need sir. And if it helps any to know...the Bible has NEVER EVER been proven false. Nothing about it...not a single word has EVER been proven false. Athiests and others have tried...and many have converted to Christianity after finding that they couldn't. Just read the word...plant the seed...and God will make it grow.

 

[Spyr]

I feel like this spry guy is just set against believing in God. He doesn't want to come to God, he wants to argue his point that God doesn't exsist, and be difficult. He has asked for scienfic proof and no 'emotional testamonies" What exactly do you want? Do you want Jesus in the flesh to show up at your door?? Will you even believe then or will you write it off as some crazy person dressed up and pretending??

I guess you'll have to figure it out on your own spry as no one here seems to be able to match your great wisdom in the matter.

First of all it's Spyr and not Spry. Secondly I really don't appreciate that post. Forgive me for not being completely nonchalant but the issue at hand is one of great importance, and the fact that there is a threat to my immortal soul which can be doomed to eternal torment has put a tad bit of an edge into my conversations. The subject itself hits to the core of me and if I'm not an easy one to persuade perhaps in lieu of giving up or stating that I'm a lost cause dead-set against belief in god, maybe you should explain to me (for that is the purpose of this thread) why you beleive in god. Your answer might be a persuasive one and once converted I'll surely not plague the world with my stubborness.

 

[1GODALONE]

How can we prove that president George Washington existed? Think about it. All we have are textbooks that show the history of his life, witnesses to his life, and a painting or two. How do we know that everything in those textbooks about George Washington isn't a lie? Faith. We believe he existed because of the many people that have attested to his actual life. Many great things were done under his command and his men remembered him. Even other countries have accounts of what Washinton did. Sound familiar? It should because Jesus had many witnesses to his unjustice. He did miracles in many towns, healing many different people. I know that the Bible has always proven itself accurrate archeologically. Historically though? I couldnt see so many people making a big fuss out of someone who doesnt exist, and then writing down accounts of it just to fool a bunch of people. Anyway, the point remains that Jesus's life existed, and it was documented in the Bible. Washington's life was documented in a textbook. It takes faith to believe anything historical. Case for Christ is a very good book, if your interested, pick it up sometime. G.B.

 

[Spyr]

I will attempt to give you my opinion here , but you may want to rephrase the question, because I don't understand what you're refering to about God dieing
in the Old Testament?







No, absolutely not....at least not in the sense that you are referring to. You're not giving a wiser than wise God enough credit to be smarter than you. The price to pay by holding your hand and pulling you into the light would be too cheapened within the course of the coaxing you prefered. I know that if you were my child, and I thought you're devotion was coaxable then I would have a plan that kept me neutral in your motives. Honestly, you have to admit that If Christ appeared on CNN tonight and demonstrated that all truths of the Bible are real, then most all of the world are going to want to join the wagon. Faith alone is always required up front to establish your belief in God for God to establish belief in you. The whole premise of the relationship is for you to let go of that "center" that self capacitates itself with self realization through reasoning. That particular "loyalty" stresses your own individual dignity and worth. Being part of, the God of the universe's eternal family, is not just everyday royalty. Faith must be the first step by you.....after that, all things are added. "Seek ye first the kingdom of God, then all things will be added unto you" (Luke 12:31)





The only qualifications to understand the Bible is for you to be able to read
and tell truth from false. It is a guide book from a God that exists in a dimension without space and time to a people affected by space and time. A one line sentence from God's word could need 1000 years to transpire before the full intent of his word is realized. If the Bible were written in "full" present tense, for the generation in that time, that it was written in, then it would only apply for a short matter of years in the earth's history. The Bible's truths has to last an undetermined amount of years for a lot of generations and customs. It is ingenuisly crafted by God, in that it does exactly that. The Bible stands the test of time, and reveals more and more truths as it goes along. Here again, the simple application, "that God is wiser than wise when it comes to a human", should not be overlooked. As for why other beliefs differ..I bow and humbly say to you, "because they are not as intelligent and/or are politically biased with alterior motives other than the Bibles content"



God left you with his grace (grace being here- that God paid your penalty for sin himself, because you were'nt justifyably suitable to do so), and that should be sufficient for you. In other words, we are all very, very, very, very, very, very, very lucky God went to bat for us.




To prove his love to you in a way that could not be overcome by doubt. It satisfied the judicial branch of God's judgement against man's will, while commending his love to you in spite of yourself. Evidently it has had an enough impact on you to perplex you enough to ask it. Shock and awe goes a long way in getting someone's attention.





These groups of questions seem very simplistic for a direct answer you can understand and in some ways understanding how they can be a question at all is as paradoxal as understanding that of a blackhole in space. We know that they should exist, but exactly how, why, and to what extent is a mystery we may not be able to comprehend. Being omnipresent we know does exist with a God capable of creating a universe, but to what extent is an enigma for life, not God. We are inside looking out and the observations you've noted make us look very small indeed.......and our size, in comparison to God......does not demand an answer for us. We are not the general manager of the universe.....God is.

I like your answers but the problem is that you are speaking from the position of someone who already beleives in god which is fine and to be expected, but consider my position for a moment. I'm faced with a decision between life and death and you're telling me I just have to have faith and trust in the wisdom of one greater than I have. But your premises are different than mine. I don't have the luxury of being certain of your god's existence so I can't simply give up my will to another. Also what is required of me is faith which I have in limited supply. Someone spoke to me once about axioms and how I have taken those on faith however my stock in those axioms do not determine the resting place of my immortal soul.

The reason I started this thread is because I was tired of people telling me to accept it on faith, even a leap of faith must have some solid ledge from which to jump. It's this solidity I need and have been asking from people, simply something stronger than just a witnesses conviction. Is that an unreasonable demand? If so then god is asking more of me than I am able to give.


As for your post:

I was refering to god in the sense of jesus dying on the cross.

As for the validity of the bible, after reading the bible and rereading it and rereading it, if I come to the conclusion that the bulk of it if true but the rest is false obviously you'd disagree with me. However since the bible will only be fully complete and true and the end of the world how then can I make an informed decision as to wether it is in fact truthful in its entirety?

I acknowledge your statement that I may be too small to understand the wisdom and workings of god. But then if that is the case how can I be held accountable for not following something I don't fully understand? If I must forsake completely understanding what god has planned or his will and take it on the basis of faith and with a grain of salt, how then can I be condemned if that isn't the path I am able to take?

 

[Spyr]

Spyr, do you think that all Christians are just full of self-delusion?

I have to be delicate answering this question since I certainly don't want to alienate anyone. No, I don't beleive all christians are full of self-delusion. What I do beleive is to follow the life god would have us follow, we'd have to sacrifice a little of ourselves, give up our will, and subject ourselves to the will of the lord. In which case we would be denying ourselves to a certain extent. So it would less self-delusion and more akin to repression of our, let's say, natural selves.

Hope that was non-offensive.