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Why seek "God"?

toLiJC

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Using your argument and tying that to what we can actually see happening around us, the destruction, desecration and death of the biosphere here on this beautiful planet as well as the wars, hunger and huge populations of refugee's we see that they are primarily brought on by the followers of the Abrahamic religions, including Christianity, fits rather nicely with the warnings you give above. Not to mention the genocide of the Indians both in south and north America. I don't see the same unrighteousness in Buddhism.

you judge things according to what you see, but the spiritual things are most invisible/imperceptible, so what guarantee is there that there's not any devilish/unclean spirit being a constant part of the worshiper's religion and working in their faith if they have not adhered to the universal principles of practicing faith(i.e. the Ten Commandments, the Commandments of Jesus, etc.)?!

Isaiah 11:1-4 "And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots: And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD; And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears: But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth: with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked."

Blessings
 
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ananda

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it focuses on oneself, including according to what you have witnessed to it, which indicates there is some kind of egoism at its base, and faith based on egoism is the root of all spiritual unrighteousness/lawlessness/wickedness, so in your place i would examine my faith (over and over again if necessary)...

Blessings
It is our perception as Buddhists that the sufferings of humanity finds its roots and origins first and foremost in the individual heart and mind. From the delusions, greed, and fears of the individual, combined with those of others steeped in their own mass of delusions, greed, and fears, comes manifest the ensnaring web of evils and their associated sufferings among all those in the world.

Therefore, by first resolving our own delusions, greeds, and fears - and, as a consequence, eliminating the evils associated with those states of mind - we not only serve to deliver ourselves, we also truly serve the world by unburdening ourselves upon all others.

Being a noble disciple, setting an example of one possessed with peace and bliss, is the greatest help one can offer to others in this suffering world.
 
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ananda

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you judge things according to what you see, but the spiritual things are most invisible/imperceptible, so what guarantee is there that there's not any devilish/unclean spirit being a constant part of the worshiper's religion and working in their faith if they have not adhered to the universal principles of practicing faith(i.e. the Ten Commandments, the Commandments of Jesus, etc.)?!

Isaiah 11:1-4 "And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots: And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD; And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears: But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth: with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked."

Blessings
Do you avoid making covenants, destroy foreign altars, keep the feast of unleavened bread and the feast of weeks, rest on the seventh day, bring your firstfruits to the temple, and avoid boiling a kid in its mother's milk, as is required by seven of the ten commandments (Ex 34)? How are they universal?
 
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dlamberth

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you judge things according to what you see,
I judge by your own words used and Bible quotes presented...and yes, by what I see actually happening around me. I'm not blind. Things spiritual make their presence known in this physical world. That's a spiritual Truth that can not be ignored. We can see that spiritual Truth in examples of the desecration of the earth, the wars, hunger and homeless happening all around us. And why? Its because of the loss of a basic sense of sacredness for this Creation! The primary culprits are the Abrahamic religions, not Buddhism. You talk about unrighteousness/lawlessness/wickedness, but what we actually see happening around us is not at all what you claim. In fact, it's just the opposite.
 
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Jane_the_Bane

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it focuses on oneself, including according to what you have witnessed to it, which indicates there is some kind of egoism at its base, and faith based on egoism is the root of all spiritual unrighteousness/lawlessness/wickedness, so in your place i would examine my faith (over and over again if necessary)...

Blessings

Oh, that is rich, given that Christianity is sold with "save your own behind by praising the celestial potentate and shifting all responsibility for your faults and misdeeds to a blameless sacrifice. That way, you can avoid being tortured in a cosmic death camp and expect a golden mansion in heavenly Jerusalem".

Calling Buddhism "selfish" becomes positively absurd as soon as you notice that the core idea of the entire world view is "anatta" - "no self". Clinging to the illusion of self is the root cause of suffering, not only because of egoism, but because it causes you to seek permanence in impermanence, including your shifting, malleable and finite identity.
 
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habibii zahra

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I know that's your assertion, but how did you verify it? How did you verify allah was the creator, and not Aten?

I never met Allah, Jesus, Moses, or Mohammad.
many names for one god the god of the universe..he is the only creator you don't need to have effort to verify or to believe in him as a creator
 
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CherubRam

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many names for one god the god of the universe..he is the only creator you don't need to have effort to verify or to believe in him as a creator
Titles are not personal names. God has only one personal name. Yahwah means, "Life Began."


Yahwah reveals His name to Moses
Exodus 3:13-15.

13 And Moses said to Elohiym, “Suppose I go to the siblings of the Israelites and say to them, 'The Elohiym of your forefathers has sent me to you,' and they ask me, 'What is His name?' What shall I say to them?”
14 And Elohiym said to Moses, “The Living that Lives. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: 'The Living has sent me to you.”
15 And Elohiym also said to Moses, “Say to the Israelites, 'Yahwah, the Elohiym of your forefathers; the Elohiym of Abraham, the Elohiym of Isaac and the Elohiym of Jacob has sent me to you.' That’s my name forever, the name by which I’m to be remembered, from generation to generation.”
 
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dlamberth

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Titles are not personal names. God has only one personal name. Yahwah means, "Life Began."
To start off, God is not a noun.
So, there are many of us, I'm one, who recognize many personal names for God. I understand your need to focus on just one of those names, but seeing how alive and vibrant God is with in others who do use a different name for God, I'm not able to centralize on just one of those names as THE name for God. But that's just me.
 
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CherubRam

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To start off, God is not a noun.
So, there are many of us, I'm one, who recognize many personal names for God. I understand your need to focus on just one of those names, but seeing how alive and vibrant God is with in others who do use a different name for God, I'm not able to centralize on just one of those names as THE name for God. But that's just me.
Not separating titles from a personal name leads to confusion. An intelligent person would want to know which god is being spoken about. The name of my God is Yahwah, that is His only personal name, what is the NAME of your god?
 
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dlamberth

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Not separating titles from a personal name leads to confusion. An intelligent person would want to know which god is being spoken about. The name of my God is Yahwah, that is His only personal name, what is the NAME of your god?
The mind wants to discriminate between names and form and calls that "intelligence"
A Heart person through Love knows Oneness in the diversity of names and forms.
 
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ananda

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many names for one god the god of the universe..he is the only creator you don't need to have effort to verify or to believe in him as a creator
Yes I do, otherwise there's no reason for me to choose Allah or Yahweh over Aten, Ahura-Mazda, Waheguru, or Mbombo.
 
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CherubRam

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The mind wants to discriminate between names and form and calls that "intelligence"
A Heart person through Love knows Oneness in the diversity of names and forms.
Intelligent people are able to discriminate between right and wrong, and truth is narrowly defined.
 
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dlamberth

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Intelligent people are able to discriminate between right and wrong, and truth is narrowly defined.
Intelligent people cause wars, desecration of the earth and millions of refugees. The people of Heart come in afterwards to clean up the mess caused. Jesus is a person of Heart.
 
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toLiJC

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It is our perception as Buddhists that the sufferings of humanity finds its roots and origins first and foremost in the individual heart and mind. From the delusions, greed, and fears of the individual, combined with those of others steeped in their own mass of delusions, greed, and fears, comes manifest the ensnaring web of evils and their associated sufferings among all those in the world.

Therefore, by first resolving our own delusions, greeds, and fears - and, as a consequence, eliminating the evils associated with those states of mind - we not only serve to deliver ourselves, we also truly serve the world by unburdening ourselves upon all others.

Being a noble disciple, setting an example of one possessed with peace and bliss, is the greatest help one can offer to others in this suffering world.

if the human being is unfavorably affected, then what has affected them?!, there must be a cause of causes, if we say there is no God, nor satan, we may thus deceive ourselves, if we say the human being has been sinful since the true One created them, thus we may also deceive ourselves - what guarantee is there that if we have such religious beliefs, thus we won't commit a great sin?!

Ecclesiastes 6:10-12 "Whatever exists has already been named, and it is known what man is; for he cannot dispute with him who is stronger than he is. For there are many words which increase futility. What then is the advantage to a man? For who knows what is good for a man during his lifetime, during the few years of his futile life? He will spend them like a shadow. For who can tell a man what will be after him under the sun?"

so sin has lived in the world, but what is the cause of the causes?!, if we profess that there is no spiritual lawlessness/wickedness or that there is no reason to worry about spiritual unrighteousness/lawlessness/wickedness, we may thus miss preventing ourselves from bringing sin and death to the world or protecting ourselves from the great danger, because the cause of the causes may precisely be spiritual unrighteousness/wickedness - what if we profess that the human being has been sinful since their birth or their creation, or that this world has been the world of sin since the true One created it, but the truth is quite different?!, we may thus even make the true One out to be guilty of everything!!!

Genesis 1:31 "And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.",

1 John 1:1-10 "That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life; (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us; ) That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ. And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full. This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. If(i.e. and if in such circumstances i.e. when we sin) we say that we have no sin(i.e. or if we, juxtaposing God with men, say that not the humans are sinful), we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If(i.e. but if in such circumstances) we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If(i.e. but if in such circumstances) we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."

what if the "darkness" uses the inclination of religious people to believe in heresies to enter and settle down in the world in the form of "sin" and "death", while they think people of this world are sinful by nature?!

Blessings
 
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toLiJC

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Do you avoid making covenants, destroy foreign altars, keep the feast of unleavened bread and the feast of weeks, rest on the seventh day, bring your firstfruits to the temple, and avoid boiling a kid in its mother's milk, as is required by seven of the ten commandments (Ex 34)? How are they universal?

do you think that Scripture can be properly understood only by reading?!, what if many words/expressions in Scripture are kind of (very) figurative and the literal interpretation doesn't profit us?! - as a witness of the true One i can say a very big part of the biblical scriptures is figurative and the language of Scripture as a whole is very special - even to a very great extend

i used the word "universal" in the sense of most rational and comprehensible

Blessings
 
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CherubRam

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Intelligent people cause wars, desecration of the earth and millions of refugees. The people of Heart come in afterwards to clean up the mess caused. Jesus is a person of Heart.
Romans 1:21
For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened.
 
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toLiJC

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I judge by your own words used and Bible quotes presented...and yes, by what I see actually happening around me. I'm not blind. Things spiritual make their presence known in this physical world. That's a spiritual Truth that can not be ignored. We can see that spiritual Truth in examples of the desecration of the earth, the wars, hunger and homeless happening all around us. And why? Its because of the loss of a basic sense of sacredness for this Creation! The primary culprits are the Abrahamic religions, not Buddhism. You talk about unrighteousness/lawlessness/wickedness, but what we actually see happening around us is not at all what you claim. In fact, it's just the opposite.

you must be very blind if you have not seen that the idolatrous nations of the third world have been most degraded, i don't know there to be more degraded nations than the hindu ones, given that buddhism is also an indic religion (in fact, buddha was an indian and his teachings are very similar to the teachings of yoga) - the greatest iniquity has definitely been the situation in india through all that great idolatry and heresy there

however, there is no point in accusing each other, either we work for overall salvation or the religious speculations won't help anyone as they have not helped anybody

Blessings
 
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toLiJC

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Oh, that is rich, given that Christianity is sold with "save your own behind by praising the celestial potentate and shifting all responsibility for your faults and misdeeds to a blameless sacrifice. That way, you can avoid being tortured in a cosmic death camp and expect a golden mansion in heavenly Jerusalem".

Calling Buddhism "selfish" becomes positively absurd as soon as you notice that the core idea of the entire world view is "anatta" - "no self". Clinging to the illusion of self is the root cause of suffering, not only because of egoism, but because it causes you to seek permanence in impermanence, including your shifting, malleable and finite identity.

isn't selfish to prefer working on oneself to working for overall/all-embracing salvation?! - Jesus and His true disciples presented in Scripture had saved(cleansed, healed, resurrected, converted, etc.) thousands of people since the beginning of their spiritual mission, buddhists have never saved their neighbors/cohabitants so, but rather lived in monasteries far away from (the) civilization...

so that so-called "anatta" is (very) questionable...

Blessings
 
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Eyes wide Open

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Romans 1:21
For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened.

Doesn't that verse actually cement what dlamberth is saying. The distinction he draws is IQ matched against EQ, the latter being a connective component to life and those around you, thus a non darkened heart. That's not to say somebody with high IQ doesn't have EQ, but in and of itself intelligence does not relay any other holistic attributes to being human
 
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ananda

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if the human being is unfavorably affected, then what has affected them?!, there must be a cause of causes, if we say there is no God, nor satan, we may thus deceive ourselves, if we say the human being has been sinful since the true One created them, thus we may also deceive ourselves - what guarantee is there that if we have such religious beliefs, thus we won't commit a great sin?!

Ecclesiastes 6:10-12 "Whatever exists has already been named, and it is known what man is; for he cannot dispute with him who is stronger than he is. For there are many words which increase futility. What then is the advantage to a man? For who knows what is good for a man during his lifetime, during the few years of his futile life? He will spend them like a shadow. For who can tell a man what will be after him under the sun?"

so sin has lived in the world, but what is the cause of the causes?!, if we profess that there is no spiritual lawlessness/wickedness or that there is no reason to worry about spiritual unrighteousness/lawlessness/wickedness, we may thus miss preventing ourselves from bringing sin and death to the world or protecting ourselves from the great danger, because the cause of the causes may precisely be spiritual unrighteousness/wickedness - what if we profess that the human being has been sinful since their birth or their creation, or that this world has been the world of sin since the true One created it, but the truth is quite different?!, we may thus even make the true One out to be guilty of everything!!!

Genesis 1:31 "And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.",

1 John 1:1-10 "That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life; (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us; ) That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ. And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full. This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. If(i.e. and if in such circumstances i.e. when we sin) we say that we have no sin(i.e. or if we, juxtaposing God with men, say that not the humans are sinful), we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If(i.e. but if in such circumstances) we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If(i.e. but if in such circumstances) we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."

what if the "darkness" uses the inclination of religious people to believe in heresies to enter and settle down in the world in the form of "sin" and "death", while they think people of this world are sinful by nature?!

Blessings
We do not engage in "what if's", with conjectures like "Satan afflicts us". Instead, we know that the root cause of afflictions is delusion. Because of delusion, we engage in unskillful activities which causes afflictions in ourselves or in others. By dispelling delusion, we resolve afflictions.

E.g. Because of the inexperienced delusion of a child, he touches a hot stove, and suffers affliction. The experience of cause & affect dispels the child's delusion, and he avoids similar unskillful behaviors in the future, thus eliminating one source of affliction.
 
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