Why seek "God"?

[ananda]

do you think that Scripture can be properly understood only by reading?!, what if many words/expressions in Scripture are kind of (very) figurative and the literal interpretation doesn't profit us?! - as a witness of the true One i can say a very big part of the biblical scriptures is figurative and the language of Scripture as a whole is very special - even to a very great extend

i used the word "universal" in the sense of most rational and comprehensible

Blessings

It is unprofitable, because it can be read and interpreted in any number of ways.

 

[toLiJC]

We do not engage in "what if's", with conjectures like "Satan afflicts us". Instead, we know that the root cause of afflictions is delusion. Because of delusion, we engage in unskillful activities which causes afflictions in ourselves or in others. By dispelling delusion, we resolve afflictions.

E.g. Because of the inexperienced delusion of a child, he touches a hot stove, and suffers affliction. The experience of cause & affect dispels the child's delusion, and he avoids similar unskillful behaviors in the future, thus eliminating one source of affliction.

and why has "satan tries misleading people" been a conjecture for worshipers?!, because they have not believed properly in the One Who is really the true God and therefore have not known His(the perfect) truth

and what is the cause of delusion?!, there must be a cause of causes, in the biblical scriptures there is no speech of delusion created by the true One, but it is written that the wicked/evil one created delusion through the spiritual workers/servants of unrighteousness:

1 John 2:18-19 "Little children, it is the last time(also: it is a perilous time): and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come(i.e. because as you have heard the wicked/evil one works in the world so that he may increase his power), even now are there many antichrists(i.e. and even now there are many spiritual workers/servants of the "darkness"/unrighteousness); whereby we know that it is the last time(i.e. and this is one of the signs by which we can know (that) it is a perilous time). They went out from us(i.e. the unrighteous spiritual workers/servants became worshipers by using the great mercy and patience of God that manifests in/through us), but they were not of us(i.e. but they were partially with us); for if they had been of us(i.e. because if they had really/truly been with us), they would no doubt have continued with us(i.e. then they would undoubtedly have stayed (all) with us): but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us(i.e. but they have contrasted with us, with which they demonstrated that they are actually not with us).",

2 Thessalonians 2:7-12 "the mystery of iniquity does already work: only he who now lets will let, until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all delusion of unrighteousness in them that perish(i.e. in the losing worshipers/clerics); because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness."

the true One never sends delusion, among the gods only the evil one can send such things

one of the causes of ills is just one of the secondary manifestations of sin, but there is a cause of the causes, namely the spiritual unrighteousness/lawlessness/wickedness

Blessings

 

[toLiJC]

It is unprofitable, because it can be read and interpreted in any number of ways.

there is a proper understanding of Scripture, then who misinterpret Scripture?!, aren't they the false prophets?!

2 Peter 3:14-16 "be diligent to be found by Him in peace, spotless and blameless, and regard the patience of our Lord as salvation; just as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, wrote to you, as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction."

Blessings

 

[dlamberth]

there is one proper understanding of Scripture, then who misinterpret Scripture?!, aren't they the false prophets?!

With over 20,000 different Christian sects with differing Scriptural understandings, if there is only one proper understanding, that creates a real problem in seeking out the right one.

 

[ananda]

and why has "satan tries misleading people" been a conjecture for worshipers?!, because they have not believed properly in the One Who is really the true God and therefore have not known His(the perfect) truth

Satan is a conjecture because - as a purported individual - nobody I've known has ever met him. Belief based on blind faith, perhaps - but not belief based on personal knowledge.

and what is the cause of delusion?!, there must be a cause of causes, in the biblical scriptures there is no speech of delusion created by the true One, but it is written that the wicked/evil one created delusion through the spiritual workers/servants of unrighteousness

Delusion is caused by a lack of wisdom. If you claim that delusion is created by your evil one, then does the acquisition of wisdom - in the process of dispelling delusion - exorcise him?

 

[ananda]

there is one proper understanding of Scripture, then who misinterpret Scripture?!, aren't they the false prophets?!

2 Peter 3:14-16 "be diligent to be found by Him in peace, spotless and blameless, and regard the patience of our Lord as salvation; just as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, wrote to you, as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction."

Blessings

Who has the proper understanding then, and who are the true prophets? Do you claim to have the sole, proper understanding (just like millions of other Christians also claim, though they hold differing beliefs)?

For example: you quote 2Peter, a book which I know some Christians reject, along with the writings attributed to Paul (some of which you've quoted in this thread). They believe that Paul was demon-possessed (2Cor 12:7), and disobedient to the Holy Spirit (compare Acts 21:4 vs Acts 21:15).

What is the evidence and proof that your personal interpretation is superior and correct, over theirs?

 

[toLiJC]

With over 20,000 different Christian sects with differing Scriptural understandings, if there is only one proper understanding, that creates a real problem in seeking out the right one.

who says in Scripture that the proper understanding must (necessarily) be sought physically?!

Romans 2:28-29 (NASB) "he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh. But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.",

1 Corinthians 2:14-16 (NIV) "The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit. The person with the Spirit makes judgments about all things, but such a person is not subject to merely human judgments, for, “Who has known the mind of the Lord so as to instruct him?” But we have the mind of Christ.",

2 Corinthians 13:5-8 (NIV) "Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you—unless, of course, you fail the test? And I trust that you will discover that we have not failed the test. Now we pray to God that you will not do anything wrong—not so that people will see that we have stood the test but so that you will do what is right even though we may seem to have failed. For we cannot do anything against the truth, but only for the truth."

Blessings

 

[toLiJC]

Satan is a conjecture because, as a purported individual, nobody I've known has ever met him. Belief based on blind faith, perhaps - but not knowledge.

on the one hand, how do you expect any of those people to have met/meet satan when he is a spirit in the category in which God is?!, on the other hand, the fact that none of the people you have known has ever met satan doesn't mean that he didn't ever appear to anyone else

as for (the) "belief based on blind faith", the fact that you don't understand the truth of the true One doesn't mean no one else understands it

Delusion is caused by a lack of wisdom. If you claim that delusion is created by your evil one, then does the acquisition of wisdom - in the process of dispelling delusion - exorcise him?

who told you that delusion is caused by a lack of wisdom?!

1 Corinthians 1:27-28 "God has chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God has chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; And base things of the world, and things which are despised, has God chosen, yes(i.e. to confound the sublime), and things which are not(i.e. that are considered (to be) nothing by the world), to bring to nothing things that are(i.e. things that are considered (to be) something by the world):"

the principal difference is between good and evil rather than (between) wise and unwise, because what if someone is wise (even if wisest) but not good (enough) to save their neighbors needing salvation?!, therefore "wisdom" is not quite the right word, the correct word is rather "righteousness", because:

1 Corinthians 10:24-33 "Let no one seek his own good, but that of his neighbor... Give no offense either to Jews or to Greeks or to the church of God; just as I also please all men in all things, not seeking my own profit but the profit of the many, so that they may be saved.",

1 Corinthians 12:7 "to each one is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good.",

1 Timothy 6:3-7 "If anyone advocates a different doctrine and does not agree with sound words, those of our Lord Jesus Christ, and with the doctrine conforming to godliness, he is conceited and understands nothing; but he has a morbid interest in controversial questions and disputes about words, out of which arise envy, strife, abusive language, evil suspicions, and constant friction between men of depraved mind and deprived of the truth, who suppose that godliness is a means of gain. But godliness actually is a means of great gain when accompanied by contentment(i.e. by unfeigned contentment). For we have brought nothing into the world, so we cannot take anything out of it either."

Blessings

 

[toLiJC]

Who has the proper understanding then, and who are the true prophets? Do you claim to have the sole, proper understanding (just like millions of other Christians also claim, though they hold differing beliefs)?

For example: you quote 2Peter, a book which I know some Christians reject, along with the writings attributed to Paul (some of which you've quoted in this thread). They believe that Paul was demon-possessed (2Cor 12:7), and disobedient to the Holy Spirit (compare Acts 21:4 vs Acts 21:15).

What is the evidence and proof that your personal interpretation is superior and correct, over theirs?

even if i tell you all the truth, you may not believe it if you do not properly practice the faith in the true One - there is a need at least for right reasoning, but if a person practices the faith wrong, either in the form of yoga or any other suchlike religion, they may not manage to understand the truth through anything, because the wicked one may unfavorably affect their minds so that they may not understand the truth through anything

i know from what the true One told me that all Holy Apostles presented in the biblical books of the New Testament, including Peter and Paul, are true Saints

i have no personal interpretation, when i witness to a god's word i witness only to what the true One gives me to witness to - without boasting about anything of myself i can say with full confidence that there are also true followers/worshipers of the true One whose spiritual(religious) testimony is not false, though the world is full of many bad religious worshipers

Blessings

 

[ananda]

on the one hand, how do you expect any of those people to have met/meet satan when he is a spirit in the category in which God is?!, on the other hand, the fact that none of the people you have known has ever met satan doesn't mean that he didn't ever appear to anyone else

Well, what that means for me is that I am agnostic to his existence. Neither I, nor anyone I know, have met this individual.

as for (the) "belief based on blind faith", the fact that you don't understand the truth of the true One doesn't mean no one else understands it

I don't dispute that. What I'm stating is that if I do not understand it for myself, I am agnostic to it.

who told you that delusion is caused by a lack of wisdom?!

Nobody needed to tell me. I know it from personal experience.

the principal difference is between good and evil rather than (between) wise and unwise, because what if someone is wise (even if wisest) but not good (enough) to save their neighbors needing salvation?!, therefore "wisdom" is not quite the right word, the correct word is rather "righteousness", because:

I directly know that wisdom dispels delusion which gives rise to dukkha. I do not have direct knowledge about salvation, and how good or evil plays into that.

 

[ananda]

even if i tell you all the truth, you may not believe it if you do not properly practice the faith in the true One - there is a need at least for right reasoning, but if a person practices the faith wrong, either in the form of yoga or any other suchlike religion, they may not manage to understand the truth through anything, because the wicked one may unfavorably affect their minds so that they may not understand the truth through anything

i know from what the true One told me that all Holy Apostles presented in the biblical books of the New Testament, including Peter and Paul, are true Saints

i have no personal interpretation, when i witness to a god's word i witness only to what the true One gives me to witness to - without boasting about anything of myself i can say with full confidence that there are also true followers/worshipers of the true One whose spiritual(religious) testimony is not false, though the world is full of many bad religious worshipers

Blessings

So, because you met the "true One", your conclusion is that your interpretation of his words is more authoritative, correct?

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

isn't selfish to prefer working on oneself to working for overall/all-embracing salvation?!

Which is why Buddhism pursues universal care, and promotes widening our circles of compassion to include all living things instead of growing attached to the select few.
And also why Bodhisattvas (i.e. those who have reached Enlightenment, but remain within the cycle in order to help everyone else to free themselves from the root causes of suffering) feature so prominently in the popular faith.

- Jesus and His true disciples presented in Scripture had saved(cleansed, healed, resurrected, converted, etc.) thousands of people since the beginning of their spiritual mission, buddhists have never saved their neighbors/cohabitants so, but rather lived in monasteries far away from (the) civilization...

Monastic traditions in Christianity are no different. Buddhism as a whole rejects the notion of the asket on the mountain, and instead holds that the Buddhist journey always leads back to the market place, into the very centre of society. It is not a faith based on rejecting "the world", but on changing one's perception of the same. Now CHRISTIANITY, on the other hand...

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

you must be very blind if you have not seen that the idolatrous nations of the third world have been most degraded, i don't know there to be more degraded nations than the hindu ones, given that buddhism is also an indic religion (in fact, buddha was an indian and his teachings are very similar to the teachings of yoga) - the greatest iniquity has definitely been the situation in india through all that great idolatry and heresy there

however, there is no point in accusing each other, either we work for overall salvation or the religious speculations won't help anyone as they have not helped anybody

The "third world" became the third world through European conquest and oppression.
In fact, it never truly ended: political sovereignty was achieved at the cost of being bled out by private corporations and banks.

 

[habibii zahra]

Yes I do, otherwise there's no reason for me to choose Allah or Yahweh over Aten, Ahura-Mazda, Waheguru, or Mbombo.

it is not a matter of choice it is a matter of fact...ALLAH or god is a truth ALLAH exists and he is the god of the whole universe..his existence is an absolute truth..he sent his messengers for us to call us to his worship..god or ALLAH sent us divine books to inform us about him..what is the signs of other gods???

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

it is not a matter of choice it is a matter of fact...ALLAH or god is a truth ALLAH exists and he is the god of the whole universe..his existence is an absolute truth..he sent his messengers for us to call us to his worship..god or ALLAH sent us divine books to inform us about him..what is the signs of other gods???

Usually, equally unproven claims: "holy" books, myths about miracles, creation, etc.

And reality clearly doesn't match a single one of them, yours included.

If there was such a being, it would be self-evident - and not in need of being worshipped by a bunch of primates on a tiny speck of dust on the outer fringes of a medium-sized galaxy. A universe-creating being who is concerned with the fashion choices of mostly furless great apes? Yeah, right.

 

[ananda]

it is not a matter of choice it is a matter of fact...ALLAH or god is a truth ALLAH exists and he is the god of the whole universe..his existence is an absolute truth..he sent his messengers for us to call us to his worship..god or ALLAH sent us divine books to inform us about him..what is the signs of other gods???

I haven't met Allah or a single one of his appointed messengers. On the other hand ... Aten's divine might manifests powerfully in the sky every morning?

 

[toLiJC]

Well, what that means for me is that I am agnostic to his existence. Neither I, nor anyone I know, have met this individual.

I don't dispute that. What I'm stating is that if I do not understand it for myself, I am agnostic to it.

Nobody needed to tell me. I know it from personal experience.

I directly know that wisdom dispels delusion which gives rise to dukkha. I do not have direct knowledge about salvation, and how good or evil plays into that.

if we don't see air, does this mean there is no air anywhere in the space (around us), including in our lungs?!, and when it comes to the spirits, they are most invisible/imperceptible and we the souls/(be)souled beings can only be (as it were) puppets in their hands - God forbid any of us turns out to be a puppet in the hands of manifestation(s) of the "darkness", so the fact that a religious worshiper doesn't believe there are spirits, either because he/she has never seen/met any of them or because he/she considers their presence in the universe somehow insignificant or unobjectionable, won't make spirits nonexistent or non-inducing/noncausative especially if that worshiper commits spiritual unrighteousness/lawlessness/wickedness - many religious worshipers can mislead themselves that there are not such and such spirits in the universe/world and at the same time be affected/induced by them...

Blessings

 

[toLiJC]

So, because you met the "true One", your conclusion is that your interpretation of his words is more authoritative, correct?

Romans 14:14 (DRB) "I know, and am confident in the Lord Jesus, that nothing is unclean of itself; but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean."

how was St Paul so confident about things?!, something definitely made him be so confident, but how?!, there must be something innermost, faithful, true(-thful) or more powerful than the world, something that is in the true One...

Blessings

 

[ananda]

if we don't see air, does this mean there is no air anywhere in the space (around us), including in our lungs?!,

Molecules of air can be experienced by other senses and using tools.

and when it comes to the spirits, they are most invisible/imperceptible and we the souls/(be)souled beings can only be (as it were) puppets in their hands - God forbid any of us turns out to be a puppet in the hands of manifestation(s) of the "darkness", so the fact that a religious worshiper doesn't believe there are spirits, either because he/she has never seen/met any of them or because he/she considers their presence in the universe somehow insignificant or unobjectionable, won't make spirits nonexistent or non-inducing/noncausative especially if that worshiper commits spiritual unrighteousness/lawlessness/wickedness - many religious worshipers can mislead themselves that there are not such and such spirits in the universe/world and at the same time be affected/induced by them...

Blessings

If you can neither perceive these spirits, nor experience them or their effects, then why believe blindly in them?

 

[ananda]

Romans 14:14 (DRB) "I know, and am confident in the Lord Jesus, that nothing is unclean of itself; but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean."

how was St Paul so confident about things?!, something definitely made him be so confident, but how?!, there must be something innermost, faithful, true(-thful) or more powerful than the world, something that is in the true One...

Blessings

I cannot say. There are others who don't believe in "St Paul" or his words. How is your interpretation and judgment superior to theirs?