Why pray for a miracle?

[Heart2Soul]

Ive had similar experiences.....I've found that the reasons for my non-healing was related to the request. for instance.....requesting to be healed is the same as saying I am sick.......words that should never be utter by one who desires to be and remain healthy....

I totally agree...I constantly speak over my body to be obedient to God's Word to be in health, and prosper even as my soul prospers.

 

[Serving Zion]

Hi Sister, great to see you again and to have an opportunity to help you with this today!

I have read comments in various threads about apostles and prophets don't exist today. Also that the miracles that Jesus did and the apostles only happened back then. Then the comments that for the most part scriptures were pertaining to the Jews only. Oh and that God doesn't speak to us except through the Bible.

So here is my question: If the Bible only pertains to the Jews why read it if you are not a Jew? This also implies that the Bible is nothing more than a history book of the accounts of others lives.

The faith of Judaism is based upon the promise given to Father Abraham, that because of his virtuous faith, he received a blessing to become the "Father of nations". The basic virtues were that he knew God personally, that he believed God was able to do the impossible, that he was willing to obey God at the greatest personal cost, and that he was a man of righteous character.

The scriptures trace his genetic lineage from the ones who introduced sin to the world through to the Messiah Jesus Christ. It was due to an unfortunate truth that the human was so severely damaged and hindered by it's weakness (see Judges 1-2), that when Jesus came to fulfil Messianic prophecies, "He came to his own but his own did not receive him". Jesus did contend with them as long as it was possible, and it was not through His own fault that He was cut off (Daniel 9:26, Isaiah 53:8).

Remember these verses, how He contended with them until they were brought so low in their obstinance that they were driven to murder the holiest one in the name of God (John 5:43, Luke 13:34-35). It is because He already knew that the scriptures were indicating this (Isaiah 6:8-11), that He spoke of such a shift of power away from the ones who had lost the way (John 4:23, Matthew 9:36, Matthew 8:10-12, Matthew 21:43-44).

After the Jews had chosen this spirit (Mark 15:9-14, Matthew 27:25), they had chosen to set their hearts even against The Holy Spirit (whom their fathers had known, but of whom they had been corrupted and led astray by mingling with the pagan nations - the same that quickly overtook the Christians: 2 Peter 2:1, 1 John 4:1, John 12:35).

In this way, you can see that the kingdom of God that was transferred to Jesus (Hebrews 7:23-25) was coming in the world with the fullness of the power that Jesus had brought (Acts 4:33, Acts 1:7-8). This was only possible because of the faith that the disciples had, and the accuracy of their teaching so that they were exceedingly righteous in God's eyes - because the power of God goes toward the one who is righteous in the judgement (Matthew 5:20, consider Jeremiah 31:32 and James 4:4).

If miracles only occurred back then, why pray for a miracle? Why pray at all?

Because God does still want to do good in the world! .. but He is simply not glorified through the deeds of a great number of Christians these days, who have been compromised by false doctrines to indeed have greater unrighteousness in His eyes than the unbelievers.

Yet, His eternal Word remains unchanged, that is John 14:13 and John 12:28.

If apostles and prophets don't exist today why are we warned of "false prophets" (to me this implies there are prophets). If God doesn't speak to us, then how do we receive direction in our personal lives?

They do exist today, only that Christians who come under demonic possession through having believed false doctrines that put them in opposition with The Holy Spirit, have cut themselves off from Christ and they do not recognise the authority that Jesus Christ assigns personally (2 Peter 2:10). These ones have been lured and led astray by the deceitfulness of wealth (sown among thorns), wanting to be teachers of Torah but not knowing what they so confidently affirm! They shut out the ones coming into heaven, and themselves refuse to go in. This is all the way that Jesus spoke about the religios leaders in His day, because it is the same spirit at work in the sons of disobedience.

This is why He has said that a tree is known by it's fruit, and that St. Paul wrote "let them be anathema", "there is a sin leading to death that I say you should not pray about".

My point in all this is I am tired of the continual debate trying to minimize the Power of the Living Word in our lives. By faith I believe He talks to me and I hear His voice. By faith I believe that I can pray and whatever I have need of when I pray in Jesus name it is answered. By faith I believe I serve the same God as the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob and that He is the same Yesterday, Today and Forever. By faith I believe the Word of God is a Living Word and that it applies to me as well as it did to those in the Bible. By faith I believe that all things are possible with God and that He intended for All Teachings to Be Continued throughout eternity.

Yes, it is tiring! .. do you remember though that Jesus told parables about keeping the lamps full and about making sure that we are not found sleeping when He arrives? .. yes, these are dark times, the times after which the world had rejected the light and groans in anticipation of the revelation of the sons of God.

Okay, I am just frustrated with the reasoning of people who argue that the Bible, (in part) is not applicable to us today .

Pay no mind to the apostates, they are of their father the devil. He was a murderer since the beginning and there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native tongue, because he is the father of it.

Therefore thus says Adonai:
“If you return, I will restore you,
you will stand before Me.
If you extract the precious from the worthless,
you will be as My mouth.
Let them turn to you,
but you must not turn to them.

 

[Heart2Soul]

Hi Sister, great to see you again and to have an opportunity to help you with this today!

The faith of Judaism is based upon the promise given to Father Abraham, that because of his virtuous faith, he received a blessing to become the "Father of nations". The basic virtues were that he knew God personally, that he believed God was able to do the impossible, that he was willing to obey God at the greatest personal cost, and that he was a man of righteous character.

The scriptures trace his genetic lineage from the ones who introduced sin to the world through to the Messiah Jesus Christ. It was due to an unfortunate truth that the human was so severely damaged and hindered by it's weakness (see Judges 1-2), that when Jesus came to fulfil Messianic prophecies, "He came to his own but his own did not receive him". Jesus did contend with them as long as it was possible, and it was not through His own fault that He was cut off (Daniel 9:26, Isaiah 53:8).

Remember these verses, how He contended with them until they were brought so low in their obstinance that they were driven to murder the holiest one in the name of God (John 5:43, Luke 13:34-35). It is because He already knew that the scriptures were indicating this (Isaiah 6:8-11), that He spoke of such a shift of power away from the ones who had lost the way (John 4:23, Matthew 9:36, Matthew 8:10-12, Matthew 21:43-44).

After the Jews had chosen this spirit (Mark 15:9-14, Matthew 27:25), they had chosen to set their hearts even against The Holy Spirit (whom their fathers had known, but of whom they had been corrupted and led astray by mingling with the pagan nations - the same that quickly overtook the Christians: 2 Peter 2:1, 1 John 4:1, John 12:35).

In this way, you can see that the kingdom of God that was transferred to Jesus (Hebrews 7:23-25) was coming in the world with the fullness of the power that Jesus had brought (Acts 4:33, Acts 1:7-8). This was only possible because of the faith that the disciples had, and the accuracy of their teaching so that they were exceedingly righteous in God's eyes - because the power of God goes toward the one who is righteous in the judgement (Matthew 5:20, consider Jeremiah 31:32 and James 4:4).

Because God does still want to do good in the world! .. but He is simply not glorified through the deeds of a great number of Christians these days, who have been compromised by false doctrines to indeed have greater unrighteousness in His eyes than the unbelievers.

Yet, His eternal Word remains unchanged, that is John 14:13 and John 12:28.

They do exist today, only that Christians who come under demonic possession through having believed false doctrines that put them in opposition with The Holy Spirit, have cut themselves off from Christ and they do not recognise the authority that Jesus Christ assigns personally (2 Peter 2:10). These ones have been lured and led astray by the deceitfulness of wealth (sown among thorns), wanting to be teachers of Torah but not knowing what they so confidently affirm! They shut out the ones coming into heaven, and themselves refuse to go in. This is all the way that Jesus spoke about the religios leaders in His day, because it is the same spirit at work in the sons of disobedience.

This is why He has said that a tree is known by it's fruit, and that St. Paul wrote "let them be anathema", "there is a sin leading to death that I say you should not pray about".

Yes, it is tiring! .. do you remember though that Jesus told parables about keeping the lamps full and about making sure that we are not found sleeping when He arrives? .. yes, these are dark times, the times after which the world had rejected the light and groans in anticipation of the revelation of the sons of God.

Pay no mind to the apostates, they are of their father the devil. He was a murderer since the beginning and there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native tongue, because he is the father of it.

Therefore thus says Adonai:
“If you return, I will restore you,
you will stand before Me.
If you extract the precious from the worthless,
you will be as My mouth.
Let them turn to you,
but you must not turn to them.

You are a beacon of light to my weary soul! Thank you, thank you, thank you......It ministers to me very deeply that you shared this! God Bless You!

 

[Deadworm]

H2S: "I have read comments in various threads about apostles and prophets don't exist today."

According to Paul, an apostle is, among other things, an eyewitness of the Resurrected Lord. So in that sense we don't have apostles today. Nothing in Scripture implies that we can't have modern prophets and, for that matter, new Scripture that addresses the needs, insights, of modern times. The gift of prophecy operats in our Pentecostal and Charismatic churches. But almost no Christian is open to an expansion of the biblical canon. Why can't we have prpphets like Moses, Jeremiah, and Isaiah today? What if some of the lost Gospels to which Luke alludes (Luke 1:1-4) that predate our own are discovered? Will the Church in principle be open to including them in the Bible?

H2S: "Also that the miracles that Jesus did and the apostles only happened back then."

And this attitude helps explain why so many honest educated people today deem it reasonable to dismiss the Bible as a collection of fairy tales. The rational historical judgments are based on evidence and evidence is partly based on the principle of causality and analogy. The preferred explanation is the one that can best explain the evidence in natural terms. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Then there is the principle of analogy: the most rational explanation is that which has analogies in modern experience. So the miracle claims of Jesus and the apostles must be assessed in terms of modern analogous miracles that can be documented. Put bluntly, if there is not evidence to suggest that a God exists who can do it now, then claims that God did it then are rightly dismissed as legends. That is why I thrill to modern testimonies of miraculous healings, especially when people of integrity that I know well have experienced such miracles.

 

[Heart2Soul]

Well stated! Thank you for sharing this! I know not all will ever accept the truth but I pray that those coming here to CF seeking it will be lead to members such as yourself and others like you who can rightly divide the truth.

 

[Serving Zion]

an eyewitness of the Resurrected Lord. So in that sense we don't have apostles today.

Actually, I personally testify that I do see and recognise our risen Lord (John 14:21).

 

[Heart2Soul]

Actually, I personally testify that I do see and recognise our risen Lord (John 14:21).

With your natural eyes? I would LOVE to see Jesus! I have prayed this for a long time. I see Him in my visions and dreams but to SEE Him, wow, what a day that would be!

 

[Serving Zion]

With your natural eyes? I would LOVE to see Jesus! I have prayed this for a long time. I see Him in my visions and dreams but to SEE Him, wow, what a day that would be!

With spiritual discernment, yes through perceiving Him in persons with my natural eyes.

 

[Blade]

<----see the smile? "I am just frustrated". Why again? Well are you their God? Do they sin against you? Is it your word? Lol..trying to go somewhere here..not sure I can even see what I am doing..

Think back when Jesus walked this earth. And that if everything Jesus did was written.. one thought there are not enough books to hold it all. Ok.. then this Jesus goes into some town.. and ALL this GOD could do was lay hands on a few and teach. I wonder if He didnt stop and.. REALLY? Did you not see everything I been doing and.. some of you only heard..and yet.. you STILL don't believe? They saw FACE TO FACE and still would not believe.

Treat each one.. as if its being asked new. I am reminded of a story.. I take with a grain of salt. There was this preacher that got all this mail one day for prayer. So he put it all together and was going to pray over all it.. it was ALLOT. Well Jesus appears. The preacher shocked .. duh , when the man wanted to pray over all it.. Jesus didnt. Jesus wanted to, asked to open each one read it.. and pray.

How many times does He hear the SAME thing A MILLION times..yet treats each one.. as if it was asked the 1st time. Not talking about those that read the word over and over.. I think then He might say.. a.. you know its written or did I not say.. that kind of talk. Or.. as we get older in Christ there comes that time He might say nothing at all. Where we need to study.. learn to listen.. trust have faith.. anyway.

Always bend.. always be willing to sit in the back seat so to speak. Willing to get dirty over and over.. so the weak in faith can see. Until that which is perfect is come..our Job is not over. Become all things to all. Its HIM living in us..through us. Not OUR will but His. Where WE want to say.. ENOUGH.. relax.. let HIM take over

 

[Monna]

People claim that they do. I have never seen one (a miracle).

Sorry John, are you focused on your cell phone and not looking around you? (Just teasing!)

Perhaps you and a lot of other people simply don't recognise the many miracles that are happening all around them. I guess a lot is a combination of perspective and perception.

It is a miracle that I am alive today, and more so, it is a miracle that God loved me, wooed me over many years, and won me, when I was his "enemy." It is a miracle that his grace was and is sufficient for me daily. By my logic and that of most ordinary people, it is entirely beyond reason why He paid any attention to me at all. It is a miracle that he hasn't struck me dead many times over for my constant failure to follow his instructions (general or specific), that he is ready to forgive time and time again, that he has NEVER given up on me, nor ever ever let me down. Every one I see around me is a miracle - LIFE is a miracle, LOVE is a miracle,....

I suppose if we had wandered around Roman Palestine watching Jesus, his constant healing of the sick would have become "normal," nothing unusual, and we would cease to have believed that his work was miraculous. In fact, many people didn't believe even the miracles that they saw him do in front of them, and instead just castigated him for breaking the law. Such people don't see miracles, they just see faults. They have eyes but do not see...

 

[1213]

…

So here is my question: If the Bible only pertains to the Jews why read it if you are not a Jew? … …

Okay, I am just frustrated with the reasoning of people who argue that the Bible, (in part) is not applicable to us today .

I think Bible is applicable for all who what to live well. And interesting thing is, disciples of Jesus (“Christians”) are also Jews by what the Bible tells.

For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, neither is that circumcision which is outward in the flesh; but he is a Jew who is one inwardly, and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit not in the letter; whose praise is not from men, but from God.
Romans 2:28-29

 

[Heart2Soul]

<----see the smile? "I am just frustrated". Why again? Well are you their God? Do they sin against you? Is it your word? Lol..trying to go somewhere here..not sure I can even see what I am doing..

Think back when Jesus walked this earth. And that if everything Jesus did was written.. one thought there are not enough books to hold it all. Ok.. then this Jesus goes into some town.. and ALL this GOD could do was lay hands on a few and teach. I wonder if He didnt stop and.. REALLY? Did you not see everything I been doing and.. some of you only heard..and yet.. you STILL don't believe? They saw FACE TO FACE and still would not believe.

Treat each one.. as if its being asked new. I am reminded of a story.. I take with a grain of salt. There was this preacher that got all this mail one day for prayer. So he put it all together and was going to pray over all it.. it was ALLOT. Well Jesus appears. The preacher shocked .. duh , when the man wanted to pray over all it.. Jesus didnt. Jesus wanted to, asked to open each one read it.. and pray.

How many times does He hear the SAME thing A MILLION times..yet treats each one.. as if it was asked the 1st time. Not talking about those that read the word over and over.. I think then He might say.. a.. you know its written or did I not say.. that kind of talk. Or.. as we get older in Christ there comes that time He might say nothing at all. Where we need to study.. learn to listen.. trust have faith.. anyway.

Always bend.. always be willing to sit in the back seat so to speak. Willing to get dirty over and over.. so the weak in faith can see. Until that which is perfect is come..our Job is not over. Become all things to all. Its HIM living in us..through us. Not OUR will but His. Where WE want to say.. ENOUGH.. relax.. let HIM take over

Letting Him deal with it is probably one of my faults that I need to get rid of. I am always trying to help Him do His job, but then I think yeah, that is what He told me to do. LOL....I am constantly reminding myself that I am just the vessel...it is the Holy Spirit through me that is at work. "not by might, not by power, but by my Spirit, thus saith the Lord".

 

[GTW27]

With spiritual discernment, yes through perceiving Him in persons with my natural eyes.

I see Him in the words that you have put down on paper. For The Spirit bares witness to The Spirit. Does not happen much on these boards, thus the reason for the op's frustration. Fear not, for The Light will always shine through the darkness.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I have read comments in various threads about apostles and prophets don't exist today. Also that the miracles that Jesus did and the apostles only happened back then. Then the comments that for the most part scriptures were pertaining to the Jews only. Oh and that God doesn't speak to us except through the Bible.

So here is my question: If the Bible only pertains to the Jews why read it if you are not a Jew? This also implies that the Bible is nothing more than a history book of the accounts of others lives.
If miracles only occurred back then, why pray for a miracle? Why pray at all?
If apostles and prophets don't exist today why are we warned of "false prophets" (to me this implies there are prophets). If God doesn't speak to us, then how do we receive direction in our personal lives?

My point in all this is I am tired of the continual debate trying to minimize the Power of the Living Word in our lives. By faith I believe He talks to me and I hear His voice. By faith I believe that I can pray and whatever I have need of when I pray in Jesus name it is answered. By faith I believe I serve the same God as the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob and that He is the same Yesterday, Today and Forever. By faith I believe the Word of God is a Living Word and that it applies to me as well as it did to those in the Bible. By faith I believe that all things are possible with God and that He intended for All Teachings to Be Continued throughout eternity.

Okay, I am just frustrated with the reasoning of people who argue that the Bible, (in part) is not applicable to us today .

My view is that miracles are in God's department and it doesn't matter how much noise and jumping up and down we do, a miracle will never happen unless God does it. The Scripture says that the signs follow believers, not at their request.

If we are faced with a situation where we need God's involvement, then we depend on the Scripture in Philippians: "My God shall supply all your needs according to His riches in glory." Note that it says that He doesn't supply all of our wants. We may be faced with a situation where we might want a miracle to resolve it, but we might not get it if there is another way to resolve it. So, a curable sickness or disability may be resolved by medical means or surgery, so a miracle would not be needed. But an unbeliever with an inoperable cancer and if he dies would go to hell, a miracle of healing may be necessary and appropriate to give him another chance to accept the gospel. But for a believer in the same situation, if he dies he goes to be with the Lord, so a miracle of healing would be at the Lord's discretion, because whether he lives or dies, makes no difference to him. He would be like Paul, absent from the body, present with the Lord. God is not a push button vending machine. If He performs a miracle it will be for a definite purpose - to get people to turn to Christ. If he doesn't, well, that's His own business and we would be presumptuous to question Him about it. He is the Potter and we are the clay. Does the clay question the potter, "Why have you made me this way?"

 

[RaymondG]

My view is that miracles are in God's department and it doesn't matter how much noise and jumping up and down we do, a miracle will never happen unless God does it. The Scripture says that the signs follow believers, not at their request.

If we are faced with a situation where we need God's involvement, then we depend on the Scripture in Philippians: "My God shall supply all your needs according to His riches in glory." Note that it says that He doesn't supply all of our wants. We may be faced with a situation where we might want a miracle to resolve it, but we might not get it if there is another way to resolve it. So, a curable sickness or disability may be resolved by medical means or surgery, so a miracle would not be needed. But an unbeliever with an inoperable cancer and if he dies would go to hell, a miracle of healing may be necessary and appropriate to give him another chance to accept the gospel. But for a believer in the same situation, if he dies he goes to be with the Lord, so a miracle of healing would be at the Lord's discretion, because whether he lives or dies, makes no difference to him. He would be like Paul, absent from the body, present with the Lord. God is not a push button vending machine. If He performs a miracle it will be for a definite purpose - to get people to turn to Christ. If he doesn't, well, that's His own business and we would be presumptuous to question Him about it. He is the Potter and we are the clay. Does the clay question the potter, "Why have you made me this way?"

Would you say that this is true for all? If I say that I asked God for something I wanted and He gave it to me.....could you prove that He did not....or that someone else supplied it? If I say I asked for a miracle healing that i could have easily went and got medicine for....yet God granted my request to heal just because I requested it.....can you prove that He did not?

 

[Serving Zion]

I see Him in the words that you have put down on paper. For The Spirit bares witness to The Spirit. Does not happen much on these boards, thus the reason for the op's frustration. Fear not, for The Light will always shine through the darkness.

I, too, have noticed Him speaking through my words sometimes. Other times I recognise it is the free'd self that speaks (John 8:34-36). The ones who are motivated by ego are speaking from a fleshly motive - earthly, demonic, unspiritual (James 3:13-17, Jude 1:10-11).

It is His work of redemption that has brought me from that place (humbly! - Matthew 24:48-51). Some people are not able to recognise the spiritual things though (Romans 8:5, 1 Corinthians 2:14) and when resenting the truth coming through a vessel that they despise (Isaiah 53:3) although being effective for conveying The Holy Spirit (Romans 2:12, John 13:20), they have yielded their self to demonic thinking that blinds them to the spirit and they are taken captive by the thief (hence Jeremiah 13:15-17).

This is a constant risk, (I warn), that if a fellow's love is not sufficiently formed that they are offended by a blameless truth (1 Corinthians 13:5) - it is not through my error (2 Corinthians 6:3) and their resentment places them under judgement (Psalms 69:4, 1 John 3:15, John 15:6).

We all have that potential when we speak with the anointing (John 15:22), all the greater reason for Jeremiah 15:19 (Matthew 13:12, Revelation 22:11).

 

[Heart2Soul]

My view is that miracles are in God's department and it doesn't matter how much noise and jumping up and down we do, a miracle will never happen unless God does it. The Scripture says that the signs follow believers, not at their request.

If we are faced with a situation where we need God's involvement, then we depend on the Scripture in Philippians: "My God shall supply all your needs according to His riches in glory." Note that it says that He doesn't supply all of our wants. We may be faced with a situation where we might want a miracle to resolve it, but we might not get it if there is another way to resolve it. So, a curable sickness or disability may be resolved by medical means or surgery, so a miracle would not be needed. But an unbeliever with an inoperable cancer and if he dies would go to hell, a miracle of healing may be necessary and appropriate to give him another chance to accept the gospel. But for a believer in the same situation, if he dies he goes to be with the Lord, so a miracle of healing would be at the Lord's discretion, because whether he lives or dies, makes no difference to him. He would be like Paul, absent from the body, present with the Lord. God is not a push button vending machine. If He performs a miracle it will be for a definite purpose - to get people to turn to Christ. If he doesn't, well, that's His own business and we would be presumptuous to question Him about it. He is the Potter and we are the clay. Does the clay question the potter, "Why have you made me this way?"

I have come to the conclusion that you do not believe in miracles....you spend more time disputing them than you do promoting them. The examples you give are hypothetical scenarios. I have given testimony of God's power in my life and yet people still try to discredit my testimony. So to say that scripture says that the signs follow the believers, not at their request.....i rebuke it, in Jesus name. This comes from some foreign teaching that doesn't belong in the teaching of God's truth. God's Word numerously says to pray and ask....ask and you shall receive....in all things with prayer and supplications make your request known to the Lord....when you pray, ask in faith, nothing wavering....and so on and so on.

 

[Heart2Soul]

Well stated! Thank you for sharing this! I know not all will ever accept the truth but I pray that those coming here to CF seeking it will be lead to members such as yourself and others like you who can rightly divide the truth.

Sorry Deadworm, I forgot to quote you when I replied with this. God Bless!

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Would you say that this is true for all? If I say that I asked God for something I wanted and He gave it to me.....could you prove that He did not....or that someone else supplied it? If I say I asked for a miracle healing that i could have easily went and got medicine for....yet God granted my request to heal just because I requested it.....can you prove that He did not?

If we have Jesus as our Lord and Saviour, and we are fully trusting Him fr everything in our lives, then we can ask for anything according to His will and He will grant it. But there is the general will of God for all people, and His specific will for you from day to day. The foundation will of God for all is to believe on Jesus whom God has sent to be our Lord and Saviour. If I get sick, I go to the doctor to get a good diagnosis. If it is curable by medicine or an operation, I will do it that way and trust God that He will ensure I get the right medicine and/or guide the surgeon's hands. For instance, I had a bad case of haemorriods when I was in my 40s. I went to the doctor and he put me on to a surgeon who used the "rubber band" method to get rid of them. That worked for me and I have had no trouble since. I could have asked God to heal them supernaturally, but why. when the doctor did the same job? Healing my condition supernaturally would not have turned anyone to Christ, so a miracle was not necessary. It may have been more convenient for me, and might have saved having a doctor's hand up my butt, but hey, he did the job and I am grateful. Another time, a metal parapet in my shower room fell down on my big toe. It was agonising and I couldn't move for around 20 minutes. I went to the doctor and found that I had fractured the end of my toe, and the edge of the parapet had gone through the toe nail. I was fortunate that I didn't lose the toe. I had to keep it up on three pillows for three weeks and have the dressing changed every day for two weeks. But, again, it is now healed. God could have healed it, or He could have ensured that my toe was out of the way when the parapet came down. The blessing was that I had three weeks rest from work, which I badly needed.

From what I see from Scripture, miracles are not for self-indulgent Christian believers to advertise themselves as being more spiritual or closer to God than anyone else. Miracles are there to show the power of God to unbelievers and turn them to Christ. False signs and wonders can be done by false cults and occult people, and they can be quite genuine as far as miracles go, but they happened for false cult members and occult folks to be able to say that the "god" or spiritual power is greater than our God, so why not trust them instead of the Christian God who makes you live a limited "holy" life, but with us you can have the supernatural and miracles and live any way you wish. The problem arises when an exclusive Charismatic or Pentecostal group try to use the supernatural gifts to show that their church is superior to everyone else's, so don't trust your Charismatic, Pentecostal, Baptist, Anglican, Catholic, Orthodox or Presbyterian church because they are all dead and it is our group who are the only alive ones. It is the same with a person who says they have extraordinary gifts that others haven't got, so "trust me and no one else, because I am closer to God and hear His voice clearer than they can". These examples are also those who draw people away from faith in Christ. If they say, "You must to to Christ through me and me only" then they are false prophets and teachers, because they are putting themselves in the way and blocking the person from direct access to Christ. These people are just as bad and evil as anyone in a false cult or involved in the occult.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I have come to the conclusion that you do not believe in miracles....you spend more time disputing them than you do promoting them. The examples you give are hypothetical scenarios. I have given testimony of God's power in my life and yet people still try to discredit my testimony. So to say that scripture says that the signs follow the believers, not at their request.....i rebuke it, in Jesus name. This comes from some foreign teaching that doesn't belong in the teaching of God's truth. God's Word numerously says to pray and ask....ask and you shall receive....in all things with prayer and supplications make your request known to the Lord....when you pray, ask in faith, nothing wavering....and so on and so on.

I would have had your attitude 47 years ago when I was 23 years old and still in the Pentecostal church. But I have had 47 more years of practical experience walking with God in the light of His countenance. I have asked more questions of God about miracles and supernatural gifts than you have had hot dinners and I have come to the conclusions that I am writing in my posts concerning signs, wonders and miracles. There is a saying, "Don't judge me before you know me." The most clear answer that I have had in my prayers and questioning is that miracles, signs and wonders that turn unbelievers to Christ are not generally happening today in Western churches (although they are in third world countries), is that our churches cater mainly for believers and are basically self sufficient and self indulgent. Most, churches have no real effect on the community around them, not like a Korean church in 1907 that had all the people in the streets radiating from the church turn to Christ. And a woman evangelist in tent meetings in the United States at the turn of the 20th Century, had people fall down on their faces and turn to Christ up to 20 miles from her tent. That is the power of God. Quite different to what is going on with modern showmen in massed meetings, mainly attended by church people, and on TV, asserting that they are having miracle meetings, but little evidence of any miracles taking place. A true sign and a wonder is one which is nation-wide news and turns whole communities to Christ. The man in the white suit can wave at the choir and they all fall down, but the unbeliever living three doors down from that meeting venue is untouched and couldn't care less. If we want Early Church miracles, then we need the Early Church concentration of true repentance, commitment to Christ, and holy living, and preaching the gospel with conviction so that sinners will fall down and repent, instead of making "easy believer" decisions which they will probably keep to for a couple of months, and then when the going get tough they chuck it all in and go back to their previous lives.

So, don't tell me I don't believe in miracles. They are not always spectacular, and in my case I have experienced miracles where they were anything but spectacular, but they changed my life and greatly strengthened my faith in Christ. I have never had a healing miracle because I haven't needed one, and if I did get an uncurable disease, I wouldn't be begging God for a miracle but instead I would put my trust in Him to do what He wants with me. After all, at the end of this year, I will have had my allotted three score years and ten, so any time after that is at God's discretion - as long as I have any use in this life. If God decides to heal me supernaturally, that would be a bonus, but my condition for Him is that as a result my whole family, relatives, and non-Christian friends, whom I pray for every day, turn to Christ; otherwise, thanks, but no thanks.