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Why people reject the reality of Hell

Der Alte

This is me about 1 yr. old. when FDR was president
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FineLinen said:
The fact is nowhere in Canon is there any reference to the ghastly dogma of "eternal torment" NONE!
Search = "eternal torment"
There are no references in the KJB for eternal torment.
Please try again
.
Try searching for "eternal punishment." Here is a post I have posted several times which has not been addressed or refuted.
EOB Matthew:25:46 When he will answer them, saying: ‘Amen, I tell you: as much as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’ 46 These [ones on the left] will go away into eternal [αἰώνιος/aionios] punishment, [κόλασις/kolasis] but the righteous into eternal [αἰώνιος/aionios] life.”​
Greek has been the language of the Eastern Greek Orthodox church since its inception, 2000 years ago +/-. Who better than the team of native Greek speaking scholars, the translators of the Eastern Greek Orthodox Bible [EOB], quoted below, know the correct meaning of the Greek words in the N.T.?
Link to EOB online:
The New Testament ( The Eastern-Greek Orthodox Bible) : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
…..The Greek word “kolasis” occurs only twice in the N.T., 1st occurrence Matt 25:46 and the 2nd occurrence 1 John 4:18.
EOB 1 John 4:18 There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear, because fear is connected with punishment.[ κόλασις/kolasis] But the one who fears is not yet perfect in love.​
Note, the native Greek speaking Eastern Orthodox Greek scholars, translators of the EOB, translated “aionios” as “eternal,” NOT “age.”
In the EOB the Greek word “kolasis” is translated “punishment” in both Matt 25:46 and 1 John 4:18. Some folks claim “kolasis” really means “prune” or “correction.” However, according to the EOB Greek scholars it means “punishment.”
Note: in 1 John 4:18 there is no correction, the one with “kolasis” is not made perfect. Thus “kolasis” does not/cannot mean “correction.
…..It is acknowledged that modern Greek is different than koine Greek but I am confident that the Greek speaking EOB scholars are competent enough to know the correct meanings of old words which may have changed in meaning or are no longer used and translate them correctly. Just as scholars today know the meaning of archaic words which occur in the KJV and translate them correctly.
 
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Trivalee

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Seriously? Jesus the Christ is the Cornerstone of the Christian faith. I am shocked by your statement.
God is love but often we forget he also, judges the wicked. He judges disobedience while we are in the flesh (e.g. ancient Israel) and finally our soul in the resurrection. The wicked soul will be cast into the lake of fire after the GWTJ and there's no redemption from that Rev 20:11-14.
 
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Trivalee

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Endless torment
The words endless torment (adialeipton timorion) or eternal imprisonment (aidios eirgmos) and eternal punishment (aidios kalasin) do not appear anywhere in the Greek New Testament, (at least not in conjunction).

Whoever says that there is an eternal (aidios) time set for punishment (kalasin) beyond this life is sadly mistaken. It's a limited duration of aionion (age-abiding) kalasin (chastisement or correction) which is in view; but the day and hour that it begins and ends is unpredictable.

If it were eternal, then the word aidios would have been used.

Not even Jesus used the word for eternal in conjunction with any kind of punishment, or life for that matter. It is not talking about eternity, rather the quality of life, which will be one of righteousness or a period of correction to set things right!

May God bless you. I have tried to help you see the light...
 
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Trivalee

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I have been accused on other www forums of "promoting the doctrines of devils." I note that they were promoting doctrines of men about devils. The origin on "hell" in the "goddess" Hel in pagan Norse mythology I offer as evidence. Most Christianity has "pagan DNA." My efforts are to cleanse them out.
You are wrong. Hopefully, you will come to the knowledge of the truth one day.
 
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FineLinen

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God is love but often we forget he also, judges the wicked.

Our Father's essence is LOVE. All that He does, as the Father of all fathers flows from who He is. He indeed judges the wicked, and all of us who walk within Him as His children.

Let me fall into His glorious grasp!
 
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Der Alte

This is me about 1 yr. old. when FDR was president
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I don't suppose the passage below is in your bible?
Rev 14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up forever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
What does torment forever and ever mean, if not 'eternal torment'?
EOB Matthew:25:46 When he will answer them, saying: ‘Amen, I tell you: as much as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’ 46 These [ones on the left] will go away into eternal [αἰώνιος/aionios] punishment, [κόλασις/kolasis] but the righteous into eternal [αἰώνιος/aionios] life.”​
Greek has been the language of the Eastern Greek Orthodox church since its inception, 2000 years ago +/-. Who better than the team of native Greek speaking scholars, the translators of the Eastern Greek Orthodox Bible[EOB], quoted below, know the correct meaning of the Greek words in the N.T.?
Link to EOB online:
The New Testament ( The Eastern-Greek Orthodox Bible) : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
…..The Greek word “κόλασις/kolasis” occurs only twice in the N.T., 1st occurrence Matt 25:46 and the 2nd occurrence 1 John 4:18.
EOB 1 John 4:18 There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear, because fear is connected with punishment. [κόλασις/kolasis] But the one who fears is not yet perfect in love.​
Note, the native Greek speaking Eastern Orthodox Greek scholars, translators of the EOB, translated “aionios” as “eternal,” NOT “age.”
In the EOB the Greek word “kolasis” is translated “punishment” in both Matt 25:46 and 1 John 4:18. Some folks claim “kolasis” really means “prune” or “correction.”
EOB Matthew:25:46 When he will answer them, saying: ‘Amen, I tell you: as much as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’ 46 These [ones on the left] will go away into eternal [αἰώνιος/aionios] punishment, [κόλασις/kolasis] but the righteous into eternal [αἰώνιος/aionios] life.”​
Greek has been the language of the Eastern Greek Orthodox church since its inception, 2000 years ago +/-. Who better than the team of native Greek speaking scholars, the translators of the Eastern Greek Orthodox Bible [EOB], quoted below, know the correct meaning of the Greek words in the N.T.?
Link to EOB online:
The New Testament ( The Eastern-Greek Orthodox Bible) : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
…..The Greek word “kolasis” occurs only twice in the N.T., 1st occurrence Matt 25:46 and the 2nd occurrence 1 John 4:18.
EOB 1 John 4:18 There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear, because fear is connected with punishment.[κόλασις/kolasis] But the one who fears is not yet perfect in love.​
Note, the native Greek speaking Eastern Orthodox Greek scholars, translators of the EOB, translated “aionios” as “eternal,” NOT “age.”
In the EOB the Greek word “kolasis” is translated “punishment” in both Matt 25:46 and 1 John 4:18. Some folks claim “kolasis” really means “prune” or “correction.” However, according to the EOB Greek scholars it means “punishment.”
Note: in 1 John 4:18 there is no correction, the one with “kolasis” is not made perfect. Thus “kolasis” does not/cannot mean “correction.
…..It is acknowledged that modern Greek is different than koine Greek but I am confident that the Greek speaking EOB scholars are competent enough to know the correct meanings of old words which may have changed in meaning or are no longer used and translate them correctly. Just as scholars today know the meaning of archaic words which occur in the KJV and translate them correctly.
= = = =
“aionios” occurs 79x in the N.T.
“aionios” is translated world only 3 times in the N.T. [.03%]
“aionios” is correctly translated eternal 42 times in the N.T. [53%]
“aionios” is correctly translated everlasting 25 times in the N.T. [35%]
Jesus used “aionios” twenty-eight [28] times, 26% of the total. Jesus never used “aionios” to refer something common, ordinary or mundane which was not/could not be “eternal.”
= = = = = = = = = =
Juxtapose means, the act or an instance of placing two or more things side by side often to compare or contrast.
…..Some people claim that “aionios” never means eternity/eternal/everlasting because it sometimes refers to something which is not/cannot be eternal, e.g. “world,””age.” etc.
However, “aionios” is never defined/described, by adjectives or descriptive phrases, as meaning a period of time less than eternal, in the New Testament, as in the following 24 verses.
…..Jesus used “aionios” twenty eight [28] times. He never used “aionios” to refer to anything common, ordinary or mundane that was not or could not be eternal.
John 10:28
(28) I give them eternal [αιωνιον/aionion] life, and they shall never
[εἰς τὸν αἰῶνα/ eis ton aiona][lit. unto eternity] perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.​
In this verse Jesus parallels “aiona” with “[not] snatch them out of my hand.” If “aionios” means “age(s), a finite period,” that is not the opposite of “[not] snatch them out of my hand’” “Aionios life” by definition here means “eternal life.”
John 3:15
(15) That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal [aionion] life.
John 3:16
(16) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting [aionion] life.​
In these two verses Jesus parallels “aionion” with “should not perish,” twice! Believers could eventually perish in a finite period, thus by definition “aionion life” here means eternal or everlasting life.
Romans 1:20
(20) For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal [aidios] power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Romans 16:26
(26) But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting [aionios] God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:​
In Rom 1:20 Paul refers to God’s power and Godhead as “aidios.” Scholars agree “aidios” unquestionably means eternal, everlasting, forever, unending etc. In Rom 16:26, Paul, the same writer, in the same writing, book of Romans, refers to God as “aionios.” Paul has used “aidios” synonymous with “aionios.” Thus in this verse by definition “aionios” means eternal, everlasting.
 
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Der Alte

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FineLinen said:
Endless torment
The words endless torment (adialeipton timorion) or eternal imprisonment (aidios eirgmos) and eternal punishment (aidios kalasin) do not appear anywhere in the Greek New Testament, (at least not in conjunction).
Whoever says that there is an eternal (aidios) time set for punishment (kalasin) beyond this life is sadly mistaken. It's a limited duration of aionion (age-abiding) kalasin (chastisement or correction) which is in view; but the day and hour that it begins and ends is unpredictable.
If it were eternal, then the word aidios would have been used.
Not even Jesus used the word for eternal in conjunction with any kind of punishment, or life for that matter. It is not talking about eternity, rather the quality of life, which will be one of righteousness or a period of correction to set things right!
The usual UR nonsense. Unless you have an advanced degree in koine Greek you don't get to decide which Greek words should/should not be used in the Bible.
You evidently haven't read your Bible critically. Please note In Rom 1:20, below, and Rom 16:26,below, Paul refers to God’s power and Godhead as “aidios.” Scholars agree “aidios” unquestionably means eternal, everlasting, forever, unending etc. In Rom 16:26, Paul, the same writer, in the same writing, book of Romans, refers to God as “aionios.” Paul has used “aidios” synonymous with “aionios.” Thus in this verse by definition “aionios” means eternal, everlasting.
EOB Matthew:25:46 When he will answer them, saying: ‘Amen, I tell you: as much as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’ 46 These [ones on the left] will go away into eternal [αἰώνιος/aionios] punishment, [κόλασις/kolasis] but the righteous into eternal [αἰώνιος/aionios] life.”​
Greek has been the language of the Eastern Greek Orthodox church since its inception, 2000 years ago +/-. Who better than the team of native Greek speaking scholars, the translators of the Eastern Greek Orthodox Bible [EOB], quoted below, know the correct meaning of the Greek words in the N.T.?
Link to EOB online:
The New Testament ( The Eastern-Greek Orthodox Bible) : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
…..The Greek word “kolasis” occurs only twice in the N.T., 1st occurrence Matt 25:46 and the 2nd occurrence 1 John 4:18.
EOB 1 John 4:18 There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear, because fear is connected with punishment.[ κόλασις/kolasis] But the one who fears is not yet perfect in love.​
Note, the native Greek speaking Eastern Orthodox Greek scholars, translators of the EOB, translated “aionios” as “eternal,” NOT “age.”
In the EOB the Greek word “kolasis” is translated “punishment” in both Matt 25:46 and 1 John 4:18. Some folks claim “kolasis” really means “prune” or “correction.” However, according to the EOB Greek scholars it means “punishment.”
Note: in 1 John 4:18 there is no correction, the one with “kolasis” is not made perfect. Thus “kolasis” does not/cannot mean “correction.
…..It is acknowledged that modern Greek is different than koine Greek but I am confident that the Greek speaking EOB scholars are competent enough to know the correct meanings of old words which may have changed in meaning or are no longer used and translate them correctly. Just as scholars today know the meaning of archaic words which occur in the KJV and translate them correctly.
= = = =
“aionios” occurs 79x in the N.T.
“aionios” is translated world only 3 times in the N.T. [.03%]
“aionios” is correctly translated eternal 42 times in the N.T. [53%]
“aionios” is correctly translated everlasting 25 times in the N.T. [35%]
Jesus used “aionios” twenty-eight [28] times, 26% of the total. Jesus never used “aionios” to refer something common, ordinary or mundane which was not/could not be “eternal.”
= = = = = = = = = =
Juxtapose means, the act or an instance of placing two or more things side by side often to compare or contrast.
…..Some people claim that “aionios” never means eternity/eternal/everlasting because it sometimes refers to something which is not/cannot be eternal, e.g. “world,””age.” etc.
However, “aionios” is never defined/described, by adjectives or descriptive phrases, as meaning a period of time less than eternal, in the New Testament, as in the following 24 verses.
…..Jesus used “aionios” twenty eight [28] times. He never used “aionios” to refer to anything common, ordinary or mundane that was not or could not be eternal.
John 10:28
(28) I give them eternal [αιωνιον/aionion] life, and they shall never
[εἰς τὸν αἰῶνα/ eis ton aiona][lit. unto eternity] perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.​
In this verse Jesus parallels “aiona” with “[not] snatch them out of my hand.” If “aionios” means “age(s), a finite period,” that is not the opposite of “[not] snatch them out of my hand’” “Aionios life” by definition here means “eternal life.”
John 3:15
(15) That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal [aionion] life.
John 3:16
(16) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting [aionion] life.​
In these two verses Jesus parallels “aionion” with “should not perish,” twice! Believers could eventually perish in a finite period, thus by definition “aionion life” here means eternal or everlasting life.
Romans 1:20
(20) For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal [aidios] power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Romans 16:26
(26) But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting [aionios] God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:​
In Rom 1:20 Paul refers to God’s power and Godhead as “aidios.” Scholars agree “aidios” unquestionably means eternal, everlasting, forever, unending etc. In Rom 16:26, Paul, the same writer, in the same writing, book of Romans, refers to God as “aionios.” Paul has used “aidios” synonymous with “aionios.” Thus in this verse by definition “aionios” means eternal, everlasting.
 
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FineLinen

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What love is all about
renderTimingPixel.png

It was a busy morning, approximately 8:30 am, when an elderly gentleman, in his 80s arrived to have stitches removed from his thumb. He stated that he was in a hurry and that he had an appointment at 9:00 am. I took his vital signs, and had him take a seat, knowing it would be over an hour before someone would be able to see him. I saw him looking at his watch and decided, since I was not busy with another patient, I would evaluate his wound. On exam it was well healed, so I talked to one of the doctors, got the needed supplies to remove his sutures and redressed his wound. While taking care of him, we began to engage in conversation. I asked him if he had a doctor's appointment this morning, as he was in such a hurry. The gentleman told me no, that he needed to go to the nursing home to eat breakfast with his wife. I then inquired as to her health.

He told me that she had been there for awhile and was a victim of Alzheimer's Disease. As we talked and I finished dressing his wound, I asked if she would be worried if he was a bit late. He replied that she no longer knew who he was, and hadn't recognized him in five years. I was surprised, and asked him, "And you still go every morning, even though she doesn't know who you are?"

He smiled and patted my hand and said, "She doesn't know me, but I still know who she is."
 
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BNR32FAN

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Hell is real and literal - but it is not underground. Rev 20 says it will be literal fire and brimstone and John calls it "The lake of fire"

I always pictured the lake of fire as a pool of molten lava.
 
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Trivalee

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EOB Matthew:25:46 When he will answer them, saying: ‘Amen, I tell you: as much as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’ 46 These [ones on the left] will go away into eternal [αἰώνιος/aionios] punishment, [κόλασις/kolasis] but the righteous into eternal [αἰώνιος/aionios] life.”​
Greek has been the language of the Eastern Greek Orthodox church since its inception, 2000 years ago +/-. Who better than the team of native Greek speaking scholars, the translators of the Eastern Greek Orthodox Bible[EOB], quoted below, know the correct meaning of the Greek words in the N.T.?
Link to EOB online:
The New Testament ( The Eastern-Greek Orthodox Bible) : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
…..The Greek word “κόλασις/kolasis” occurs only twice in the N.T., 1st occurrence Matt 25:46 and the 2nd occurrence 1 John 4:18.
EOB 1 John 4:18 There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear, because fear is connected with punishment. [κόλασις/kolasis] But the one who fears is not yet perfect in love.​
Note, the native Greek speaking Eastern Orthodox Greek scholars, translators of the EOB, translated “aionios” as “eternal,” NOT “age.”
In the EOB the Greek word “kolasis” is translated “punishment” in both Matt 25:46 and 1 John 4:18. Some folks claim “kolasis” really means “prune” or “correction.”
EOB Matthew:25:46 When he will answer them, saying: ‘Amen, I tell you: as much as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’ 46 These [ones on the left] will go away into eternal [αἰώνιος/aionios] punishment, [κόλασις/kolasis] but the righteous into eternal [αἰώνιος/aionios] life.”​
Greek has been the language of the Eastern Greek Orthodox church since its inception, 2000 years ago +/-. Who better than the team of native Greek speaking scholars, the translators of the Eastern Greek Orthodox Bible [EOB], quoted below, know the correct meaning of the Greek words in the N.T.?
Link to EOB online:
The New Testament ( The Eastern-Greek Orthodox Bible) : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
…..The Greek word “kolasis” occurs only twice in the N.T., 1st occurrence Matt 25:46 and the 2nd occurrence 1 John 4:18.
EOB 1 John 4:18 There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear, because fear is connected with punishment.[κόλασις/kolasis] But the one who fears is not yet perfect in love.​
Note, the native Greek speaking Eastern Orthodox Greek scholars, translators of the EOB, translated “aionios” as “eternal,” NOT “age.”
In the EOB the Greek word “kolasis” is translated “punishment” in both Matt 25:46 and 1 John 4:18. Some folks claim “kolasis” really means “prune” or “correction.” However, according to the EOB Greek scholars it means “punishment.”
Note: in 1 John 4:18 there is no correction, the one with “kolasis” is not made perfect. Thus “kolasis” does not/cannot mean “correction.
…..It is acknowledged that modern Greek is different than koine Greek but I am confident that the Greek speaking EOB scholars are competent enough to know the correct meanings of old words which may have changed in meaning or are no longer used and translate them correctly. Just as scholars today know the meaning of archaic words which occur in the KJV and translate them correctly.
= = = =
“aionios” occurs 79x in the N.T.
“aionios” is translated world only 3 times in the N.T. [.03%]
“aionios” is correctly translated eternal 42 times in the N.T. [53%]
“aionios” is correctly translated everlasting 25 times in the N.T. [35%]
Jesus used “aionios” twenty-eight [28] times, 26% of the total. Jesus never used “aionios” to refer something common, ordinary or mundane which was not/could not be “eternal.”
= = = = = = = = = =
Juxtapose means, the act or an instance of placing two or more things side by side often to compare or contrast.
…..Some people claim that “aionios” never means eternity/eternal/everlasting because it sometimes refers to something which is not/cannot be eternal, e.g. “world,””age.” etc.
However, “aionios” is never defined/described, by adjectives or descriptive phrases, as meaning a period of time less than eternal, in the New Testament, as in the following 24 verses.
…..Jesus used “aionios” twenty eight [28] times. He never used “aionios” to refer to anything common, ordinary or mundane that was not or could not be eternal.
John 10:28
(28) I give them eternal [αιωνιον/aionion] life, and they shall never
[εἰς τὸν αἰῶνα/ eis ton aiona][lit. unto eternity] perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.​
In this verse Jesus parallels “aiona” with “[not] snatch them out of my hand.” If “aionios” means “age(s), a finite period,” that is not the opposite of “[not] snatch them out of my hand’” “Aionios life” by definition here means “eternal life.”
John 3:15
(15) That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal [aionion] life.
John 3:16
(16) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting [aionion] life.​
In these two verses Jesus parallels “aionion” with “should not perish,” twice! Believers could eventually perish in a finite period, thus by definition “aionion life” here means eternal or everlasting life.
Romans 1:20
(20) For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal [aidios] power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Romans 16:26
(26) But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting [aionios] God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:​
In Rom 1:20 Paul refers to God’s power and Godhead as “aidios.” Scholars agree “aidios” unquestionably means eternal, everlasting, forever, unending etc. In Rom 16:26, Paul, the same writer, in the same writing, book of Romans, refers to God as “aionios.” Paul has used “aidios” synonymous with “aionios.” Thus in this verse by definition “aionios” means eternal, everlasting.
EOB Matthew:25:46 When he will answer them, saying: ‘Amen, I tell you: as much as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’ 46 These [ones on the left] will go away into eternal [αἰώνιος/aionios] punishment, [κόλασις/kolasis] but the righteous into eternal [αἰώνιος/aionios] life.”​
Greek has been the language of the Eastern Greek Orthodox church since its inception, 2000 years ago +/-. Who better than the team of native Greek speaking scholars, the translators of the Eastern Greek Orthodox Bible[EOB], quoted below, know the correct meaning of the Greek words in the N.T.?
Link to EOB online:
The New Testament ( The Eastern-Greek Orthodox Bible) : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
…..The Greek word “κόλασις/kolasis” occurs only twice in the N.T., 1st occurrence Matt 25:46 and the 2nd occurrence 1 John 4:18.
EOB 1 John 4:18 There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear, because fear is connected with punishment. [κόλασις/kolasis] But the one who fears is not yet perfect in love.​
Note, the native Greek speaking Eastern Orthodox Greek scholars, translators of the EOB, translated “aionios” as “eternal,” NOT “age.”
In the EOB the Greek word “kolasis” is translated “punishment” in both Matt 25:46 and 1 John 4:18. Some folks claim “kolasis” really means “prune” or “correction.”
EOB Matthew:25:46 When he will answer them, saying: ‘Amen, I tell you: as much as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’ 46 These [ones on the left] will go away into eternal [αἰώνιος/aionios] punishment, [κόλασις/kolasis] but the righteous into eternal [αἰώνιος/aionios] life.”​
Greek has been the language of the Eastern Greek Orthodox church since its inception, 2000 years ago +/-. Who better than the team of native Greek speaking scholars, the translators of the Eastern Greek Orthodox Bible [EOB], quoted below, know the correct meaning of the Greek words in the N.T.?
Link to EOB online:
The New Testament ( The Eastern-Greek Orthodox Bible) : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
…..The Greek word “kolasis” occurs only twice in the N.T., 1st occurrence Matt 25:46 and the 2nd occurrence 1 John 4:18.
EOB 1 John 4:18 There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear, because fear is connected with punishment.[κόλασις/kolasis] But the one who fears is not yet perfect in love.​
Note, the native Greek speaking Eastern Orthodox Greek scholars, translators of the EOB, translated “aionios” as “eternal,” NOT “age.”
In the EOB the Greek word “kolasis” is translated “punishment” in both Matt 25:46 and 1 John 4:18. Some folks claim “kolasis” really means “prune” or “correction.” However, according to the EOB Greek scholars it means “punishment.”
Note: in 1 John 4:18 there is no correction, the one with “kolasis” is not made perfect. Thus “kolasis” does not/cannot mean “correction.
…..It is acknowledged that modern Greek is different than koine Greek but I am confident that the Greek speaking EOB scholars are competent enough to know the correct meanings of old words which may have changed in meaning or are no longer used and translate them correctly. Just as scholars today know the meaning of archaic words which occur in the KJV and translate them correctly.
= = = =
“aionios” occurs 79x in the N.T.
“aionios” is translated world only 3 times in the N.T. [.03%]
“aionios” is correctly translated eternal 42 times in the N.T. [53%]
“aionios” is correctly translated everlasting 25 times in the N.T. [35%]
Jesus used “aionios” twenty-eight [28] times, 26% of the total. Jesus never used “aionios” to refer something common, ordinary or mundane which was not/could not be “eternal.”
= = = = = = = = = =
Juxtapose means, the act or an instance of placing two or more things side by side often to compare or contrast.
…..Some people claim that “aionios” never means eternity/eternal/everlasting because it sometimes refers to something which is not/cannot be eternal, e.g. “world,””age.” etc.
However, “aionios” is never defined/described, by adjectives or descriptive phrases, as meaning a period of time less than eternal, in the New Testament, as in the following 24 verses.
…..Jesus used “aionios” twenty eight [28] times. He never used “aionios” to refer to anything common, ordinary or mundane that was not or could not be eternal.
John 10:28
(28) I give them eternal [αιωνιον/aionion] life, and they shall never
[εἰς τὸν αἰῶνα/ eis ton aiona][lit. unto eternity] perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.​
In this verse Jesus parallels “aiona” with “[not] snatch them out of my hand.” If “aionios” means “age(s), a finite period,” that is not the opposite of “[not] snatch them out of my hand’” “Aionios life” by definition here means “eternal life.”
John 3:15
(15) That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal [aionion] life.
John 3:16
(16) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting [aionion] life.​
In these two verses Jesus parallels “aionion” with “should not perish,” twice! Believers could eventually perish in a finite period, thus by definition “aionion life” here means eternal or everlasting life.
Romans 1:20
(20) For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal [aidios] power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Romans 16:26
(26) But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting [aionios] God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:​
In Rom 1:20 Paul refers to God’s power and Godhead as “aidios.” Scholars agree “aidios” unquestionably means eternal, everlasting, forever, unending etc. In Rom 16:26, Paul, the same writer, in the same writing, book of Romans, refers to God as “aionios.” Paul has used “aidios” synonymous with “aionios.” Thus in this verse by definition “aionios” means eternal, everlasting.

I asked a simple question, kindly address the text below. I'm not looking for a lecture on ancient Linguistics (Koine Greek) and Theology. I've learned to avoid academic religious discourses because they are invariably devoid of spiritual discernment. Blessed...

I don't suppose the passage below is in your bible.
Rev 14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up forever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
What does torment forever and ever mean, if not 'eternal torment'?
 
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Der Alte

This is me about 1 yr. old. when FDR was president
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I asked a simple question, kindly address the text below. I'm not looking for a lecture on ancient Linguistics (Koine Greek) and Theology. I've learned to avoid academic religious discourses because they are invariably devoid of spiritual discernment. Blessed...
I don't suppose the passage below is in your bible.
Rev 14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up forever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
What does torment forever and ever mean, if not 'eternal torment'?
It was not my intent to criticize you. I agree with everything you said. My post addresses the "forever and ever" point mentioned in your post. I endeavored to add to your post with additional scripture which shows conclusively that "aionios" in the Bible does in fact mean "eternal." Some folks claim it only means "age during." To make the Bible mean what they want it to mean they have replaced the adjective "aionios" with a noun "age" and a preposition "during."
 
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FineLinen

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I asked a simple question, kindly address the text below. I'm not looking for a lecture on ancient Linguistics (Koine Greek) and Theology. I've learned to avoid academic religious discourses because they are invariably devoid of spiritual discernment.

Spiritual discernment flows out of union with the Spirit of the Lord. The Scriptures are not understood by the religious natural man, but require the opening of the eyes and heart.

Then opened He their understanding...
 
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FineLinen

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Spiritual discernment flows out of union with the Spirit of the Lord. The Scriptures are not understood by the religious natural man, but require the opening of the eyes and heart.

Then opened He their understanding...

Note

Dianoigō means to open the understanding by drawing asunder. The opening is a thorough opening to what was formerly closed.

"He supernaturally unlocked their understanding to receive the revelation of the Scriptures." ~TPT
 
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Jipsah

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May God bless you. I have tried to help you see the light...
"The light" apparently being that God is merciless, and will consign those who have offended Him to eternal torment with no other purpose but to torture them. For God so loved the world that He will consign most of those He has created to suffer in flames forever, without hope, and without relief, ever. No more of that "Father forgive them" stuff, no more mercy that endures forever. Eternal life is no longer the Gift of God, but the sentence of the damned. Some "light", that.
 
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Saint Steven

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Der Alte

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First Church of God, Torturer
I guess by your reasoning Jesus was Liar.
"저희는 영벌에, 의인들은 영생에 들어가리라 하시니라"
 
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wendykvw

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No problem with any of these vss. but they are a diversion from what I was talking about.
Your post.
"Actually I do believe people will enter hell, lake of fire, or Gehenna. Different English words, but ultimately same place. The fire represents God, judgement. The fire purges away all the ugliness that sin brought into the world; Wickedness, death etc it will be removed permanently."
My response.
That ain't what Jesus said in Matthew 25:46 or Matthew 7:23.​
Neither verse has anything to do with "warnings".

Exactly, we disagree on what the verse main focus should be. With regard to Matthew 25:46. Your focus is on infinity of torture. The focus that is illuminated here, is those who refer to Christ as their Lord. They are on the left and will be consigned to the eternal fire. This poses no problem for Catholics, Orthodox, or Universalist. It does pose a problem for Protestants.
 
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