Why is the day of worship controversial?

[BobRyan]

We are under grace and not under the law.

Legal obedience is not a requirement for us, .

Do you say that to everyone that quotes "DO not take God's name in vain" to you?

If so... why? Did you think that the moral LAW of God written on the heart under the NEW Covenant got "deleted by grace"???

 

[klutedavid]

Some Bible details are sooo incredibly obvious BOTH sides admit to seeing them... This is the easy part.

Why get stuck on the easy part??

So why are you stuck on the tradition of men?

Why do you quote the very traditional Catholic church in support of your reading of the scripture. When, even the Catholic church disagrees with your interpretation and that is a paradox.

 

[BobRyan]

Is 66:23 "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship"

I thought I ask you to explain the word "from" in your quote. Please do so.

See page "one" of this thread... post #10.

It goes something like this

======================

BobRyan said: ↑
Lev 23
‘These are my appointed festivals, the appointed festivals of the Lord, which you are to proclaim as sacred assemblies.
3 “‘There are six days when you may work, but the seventh day is a day of sabbath rest, a day of sacred assembly. You are not to do any work; wherever you live, it is a Sabbath to the Lord.

It is one of the days of holy convocation, sacred assembly even though it is not limited to "yearly"

Is 66:23 "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before Me to worship"

And at one point someone asked 'what does from mean'?

1 Sam 2:19
19 And his mother would make him a little robe and bring it to him from year to year when she would come up with her husband to offer the yearly sacrifice.

19 Moreover his mother made him a little coat, and brought it to him from year to year, when she came up with her husband to offer the yearly sacrifice.

I didn't see any discussion of the word "from" in that post

Can you explain that for us?? are you simply not reading the post?

.Nor this one. I did see the word being quoted in other passages, but no discussion.

What part of "from year to year" and "from Sabbath to Sabbath" are you struggling with? will be glad to help out.

 

[ace of hearts]

Is 56:6-8 gentiles (not Jews) are specifically singled out for Sabbath keeping



Not true. They are gentiles. "Foreigners". And it does not matter where they live according to Isaiah 56.

Not if they join the covenant. They're to be treated as one in the land. Now if you're maintaining they didn't join that covenant the requirement only remains as long as they're a foreigner in the land. I don't live in Israel and therefore I'm not the foreigner of Isa 56.

“Also the foreigners who join themselves to the Lord,
To minister to Him, and to love the name of the Lord,
To be His servants, every one who keeps from profaning the Sabbath
And holds fast My covenant;
7 Even those I will bring to My holy mountain
And make them joyful in My house of prayer.
Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices will be acceptable on My altar;
For My house will be called a house of prayer for all the nations.”

Ex 12:48 does NOT say "anyone who keeps from profaning the Sabbath is a Jew". And we all know it.

Where did I imply that?

Ex 12
48 But if a stranger sojourns with you, and celebrates the Passover to the Lord, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near to celebrate it; and he shall be like a native of the land. But no uncircumcised person may eat of it.

Nothing at all there about the weekly Sabbath - the Sabbath commandment. As we all can see clearly.

So it is gentiles .. foreigners "all nations" in Isaiah 56 -- not circumcised passover-keeping Jews.

And it is foreigners - "god fearers" in Acts 14 - gentiles that are worshiping in the Synagogue "Sabbath after Sabbath" and asking for MORE Gospel preaching "NEXT Sabbath" when the "entire town" shows up... still gentiles.

Thus it is that gentiles show up in Acts 17:1-4 and in Acts 18:4-6 Sabbath after Sabbath in the synagogue for Gospel preaching.

Isa 56 says - "Neither let the son of the stranger, that hath joined himself to the Lord," This means joining the covenant of Israel at that time.

I don't think that all these "God fearers" are dwelling in Israel. I don't buy the synagogue as being a worship service.

 

[BobRyan]

So why are you stuck on the tradition of men?

The TEN Commandments and the Bible Sabbath - and the New Covenant are in the actual Bible -- read the post.

In fact the Bible details are sooo incredibly obvious that BOTH groups -- both sides - admit to seeing those Bible details. Are you not reading?

 

[klutedavid]

Do you say that to everyone that quotes "DO not take God's name in vain" to you?

If so... why? Did you think that the moral LAW of God written on the heart under the NEW Covenant got "deleted by grace"???

Because you said, 'moral law', that phrase is not in the scripture. The Sabbath day is not a moral law anyway. Once again, we are not under the law.

Bob, if circumcision is now invalid, then sabbath observance is also invalid.

 

[klutedavid]

The TEN Commandments and the Bible Sabbath - and the New Covenant are in the actual Bible -- read the post.

In fact the Bible details are sooo incredibly obvious that BOTH groups -- both sides - admit to seeing those Bible details. Are you not reading?

Except the law is not in the new covenant, circumcision is obsolete. Somehow you missed this point, one goes and the rest follow.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Joshua 8:32 And he wrote there upon the stones a copy of the law of Moses, which he wrote in the presence of the children of Israel. It sure doesn't look like to she wrong. I think it's just proof you haven't read the Scripture.

You seem confused. When you add the CONTEXT of the scriptures you try to quote it does not say what you are claiming.

JOSHUA 8:
[30], Then Joshua built an altar to the LORD God of Israel in mount Ebal,
[31], As Moses the servant of the LORD commanded the children of Israel, as it is written in the book of the law of Moses, an altar of whole stones, over which no man has lift up any iron: and they offered thereon burnt offerings to the LORD, and sacrificed peace offerings.
[32], And he wrote there on the stones a copy of the law of Moses, which he wrote in the presence of the children of Israel.
[33], And all Israel, and their elders, and officers, and their judges, stood on this side the ark and on that side before the priests the Levites, which bore the ark of the covenant of the LORD, as well the stranger, as he that was born among them; half of them over against mount Gerizim, and half of them over against mount Ebal; as Moses the servant of the LORD had commanded before, that they should bless the people of Israel.
[34], And afterward he read all the words of the law, the blessings and cursings, according to all that is written in the book of the law.
[35], There was not a word of all that Moses commanded, which Joshua read not before all the congregation of Israel, with the women, and the little ones, and the strangers that were conversant among them.

In fact after reading what you wrote I am not even sure if I understand what you are trying to say. I suggest you read what your trying to post before posting it.

 

[BobRyan]

Is 56:6-8 gentiles (not Jews) are specifically singled out for Sabbath keeping

Any gentile that commits to that covenant is a Jew - Ex 12:48. .

Not true. They are gentiles. "Foreigners". And it does not matter where they live according to Isaiah 56.

“Also the foreigners who join themselves to the Lord,
To minister to Him, and to love the name of the Lord,
To be His servants, every one who keeps from profaning the Sabbath
And holds fast My covenant;
7 Even those I will bring to My holy mountain
And make them joyful in My house of prayer.
Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices will be acceptable on My altar;
For My house will be called a house of prayer for all the nations.”

Ex 12:48 does NOT say "anyone who keeps from profaning the Sabbath is a Jew". And we all know it.

Ex 12
48 But if a stranger sojourns with you, and celebrates the Passover to the Lord, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near to celebrate it; and he shall be like a native of the land. But no uncircumcised person may eat of it.

Nothing at all there about the weekly Sabbath - the Sabbath commandment. As we all can see clearly.

So it is gentiles .. foreigners "all nations" in Isaiah 56 -- not circumcised passover-keeping Jews.

And it is foreigners - "god fearers" in Acts 14 - gentiles that are worshiping in the Synagogue "Sabbath after Sabbath" and asking for MORE Gospel preaching "NEXT Sabbath" when the "entire town" shows up... still gentiles.

Thus it is that gentiles show up in Acts 17:1-4 and in Acts 18:4-6 Sabbath after Sabbath in the synagogue for Gospel preaching.

Not if they join the covenant. They're to be treated as one in the land.

The text you reference only speaks about Passover and circumcision ... nothing at all in it about gentiles in all nations and the weekly Sabbath.

By contrast - the texts I point to - do reference gentiles in all nations and the weekly Sabbath. and we see them not only in Isaiah 56 but also in the NT - in Acts 13, Acts 17, Acts 18 -- Sabbath after Sabbath... gentiles, not Jews

I don't live in Israel and therefore I'm not the foreigner of Isa 56.

Isaiah 56 does not say the foreigner lives in Israel. Those gentiles keeping Sabbath in Acts 13, Acts 17, Acts 18 were not in Israel, were not circumcised, were not Jews.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

How many times do we need to cover this? Here again you make unsupported statements rather then show me what the Old Covenant is. I know both Old and New Covenants. They're very different covenants. No one can observe both at the same time.

Not sure you have not responded to the posts and the scriptures that disagree with you. You are confused as to what was the OLD COVENANT. If you do not know what the OLD COVENANT is how can you know what the NEW COVENANT is that the OLD COVENANT pointed to?

 

[BobRyan]

Except the law is not in the new covenant,

Until you read it. "This IS the New Covenant... I will write MY LAW on their heart and mind" Jeremiah 31:31-33

BTW I love it that you have setup my perfect slam dunk on that point about 100 times by now on this section of the board. I wish I could send you a gift or something. It is very nice of you to keep doing that. God bless you.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Yes and we know that really means anything you don't agree with.

Not really. It means only God's WORD is true and we should believe and follow it. *ROMANS 3:4; ACTS 5:29. So far your only quoting our own words over God's Word.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

The Bible will due fine all by itself. I'll refrain from making any comments on your posted passage.

God's WORD does indeed do fine by itself. We should believe and follow it. Looking for sources outside of God's WORD is not an excuse to not BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD.

 

[ace of hearts]

"The Sabbath was made for mankind" Mark 2:27
Is 66:23 "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship"
Is 56:6-8 gentiles "specifically" singled out for Sabbath keeping (700 years B.C)
Gen 2:1-3 Sabbath given to all mankind in Eden -



Until you read Genesis 2:1-3 and Exodus 20:11 in the Sabbath commandment to see WHEN it was made into a holy day for all mankind.

Gen 2
Thus the heavens and the earth were completed, and all their hosts. 2 By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.

Ex 20:11
11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

It was done in Genesis 2.

as even the Sunday groups freely admit when they argue that all mankind was given all TEN of the TEN Commandments in Eden.

Which I keep pointing out here -

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism.

===================



They all confess that ALL TEN of the TEN Commandments were applicable to all mankind in Eden.
D.L. Moody is very explicit on the Sabbath Commandment in Eden.

==================== D.L. Moody on the Sabbath Commandment

The Fourth Commandment

Remember the Sabbath Day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: for in six days the LORD made heaven and Earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath Day, and hallowed it.


THERE HAS BEEN an awful letting-down in this country regarding the Sabbath during the last twenty-five years, and many a man has been shorn of spiritual power, like Samson, because he is not straight on this question. Can you say that you observe the Sabbath properly? You may be a professed Christian: are you obeying this commandment? Or do you neglect the house of God on the Sabbath day, and spend your time drinking and carousing in places of vice and crime, showing contempt for God and His law? Are you ready to step into the scales? Where were you last Sabbath? How did you spend it?

I honestly believe that this commandment is just as binding today as it ever was. I have talked with men who have said that it has been abrogated, but they have never been able to point to any place in the Bible where God repealed it. When Christ was on earth, He did nothing to set it aside; He freed it from the traces under which the scribes and Pharisees had put it, and gave it its true place.
"The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath." (Mark 2:27)
It is just as practicable and as necessary for men today as it ever was- in fact, more than ever, because we live in such an intense age.

The Sabbath was binding in Eden, and it has been in force ever since. The fourth commandment begins with the word remember, showing that the Sabbath already existed when God wrote this law on the tables of stone at Sinai. How can men claim that this one commandment has been done away with when they will admit that the other nine are still binding?

I believe that the Sabbath question today is a vital one for the whole country. It is the burning question of the present time. If you give up the Sabbath the church goes; if you give up the church the home goes; and if the home goes the nation goes. That is the direction in which we are traveling.

The church of God is losing its power on account of so many people giving up the Sabbath, and using it to promote selfishness.
=================================== End quote

Aren't you required by the rules of the forum to provide the source of your quote?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

All Scripture is dated prior to 110 AD. There's no need of any exact dates this late in history.The net says between 50 and 160 AD for the Didache. So what's your source for the 400 date?Your calling God's people Israel and that Christians are part of Israel against Scripture.

Not sure why your trying to compare the didache to God's WORD. So not your taking your 50 AD of the didache to 160 AD? The fact is however no one know even the scholars who argue its' dating from up to 400 AD click me

God's ISRAEL in the NEW COVENANT are all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD. If you are not a part of God's ISRAEL you have no part in the NEW COVENANT *HEBREWS 8:10-12. Gentiles are now grafted in *ROMANS 11:13-27. Need more scripture click me?

1. ORIGIN OF ISRAEL AND THE 12 TRIBES linked
2. MEANING OF THE NAME OF GOD'S ISRAEL linked
3. GOD'S ISRAEL IN THE NEW COVENANT IS GOD'S CHURCH linked
4. GENTILES ARE NOW GRAFTED IN WITH GOD'S ISRAEL linked

Yep a lot of scripture that disagrees with you brother.

Hope this helps.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Because salvation is independent from works of the law (famous 10).

Who said that we are saved by works? If not one has ever said we are saved by our works then why pretent that they have? I suggest you read EPHESIANS 2:8; ROMANS 1:5; 26; ROMANS 3:31.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Mat 12:8 doesn't preform as you wish.

It does not need to. It is the Words of JESUS and I believe it. Do you?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

The covenant given to Israel isn't written on the heart of anyone, especially not gentiles.

Under the NEW COVENANT, God's LAW is to be written on the heart by faith to LOVE and in all those who are Born again to LOVE that fulfills God's LAW in all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD *HEBREWS 8:10-12; ROMANS 13:8-10; ROMANS 3:31; 1 JOHN 3:3-10. Those who continue in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN do not know God *1 JOHN 2:3-4.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

What day does your church receive offerings? Is it a day you don't meet for worship?

1 CORINTHIANS 16 is talking about the saints gathering up their offerings to give to Paul as he passes through on his way to Jerusalem. Pehaps you need to re-read the scriptures here.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I don't do videos.

It was only a short one. I gathered by your response earlier you did not watch it as what you posted did not make any sense.