Why is the day of worship controversial?

[klutedavid]

I read the link and it says what I was stating perfectly. Perhaps you need to re-read the post you were qouting from which says "The fact is however no one know even the scholars who argue its' dating from up to 400 AD click me. That was the point that was being made. I suggest you read what you are quoting from before posting. If the scholars cannot agree on when it was made I think there is plenty of doubt and it disagrees with you. Posted in all love.

May Gods help you as you seek him through his Word.

The fact remains LGW, the bulk of the scholars agree that the Didache is first century.

The Teaching of the Twelve Apostles, is a brief anonymous early Christian treatise, dated by most modern scholars to the first century.[2] (wikipedia)

Once again you must ignore the general consensus among the scholars. That must cause you some pain, repeatedly having to renounce church history.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Your reading of the scripture is erroneous.

You must understand the difference between a Jew and a Gentile. The Jew in the time of Christ was under the law, yet a Gentile was never under the law.

The scripture is very clear in this distinction between the Jew and the Gentile. The interpretation you were taught ignores the context that the scripture contains.

Not at all brother all I hear is your words over God's WORD. The scriptures quoted are God's WORD not mine so your argument is with God not me. If you believe God's Word says gentiles are free to break God's law then you need a new bible God's WORD does not teach lawlessness *1 JOHN 2:3-4. All those who continue in KNOWN UNREPENTANT sin do not enter the KINGDOM of heave because they reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23; HEBREWS 10:26-27.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

The fact remains LGW, the bulk of the scholars agree that the Didache is first century.

The Teaching of the Twelve Apostles, is a brief anonymous early Christian treatise, dated by most modern scholars to the first century.[2] (wikipedia)

Once again you must ignore the general consensus among the scholars. That must cause you some pain, repeatedly having to renounce church history.

That is not a fact at all. It is a statement outside of the scriptures. Only God's WORD is true and we should believe and follow it.

 

[klutedavid]

There is not one scripture that says God's 4th commandment has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day. I suggest you read your bible.

Oh yes there is my friend, as soon as circumcision folded so did the rest of the law. Your interpretation has failed to notify you of this obvious fact.

 

[Soyeong]

I really want to know. I would hope that any posters here will back up their argument with Scripture. Why do you worship on a particular day seems to be a good question?

The issue of whether followers of God should follow what God has commanded is fundamentally basic to Christianity, so it should not be a controversial issue. It's the one command that God specifically said to remember that so many are trying so hard to forget. The disciples were Jews who grew up keeping the Sabbath, so they did not need to be taught to keep it and there was never a time when their week was not oriented around keeping the Sabbath. We shouldn't even need anything to be repeated in the NT order for us to know that we should still obey God.

Jesus was sinless, so he lived in perfect obedience to the Mosaic Law, which means that he would have still taught full obedience to it by example even if he had said nothing, including keeping the Sabbath throughout his ministry, and as his followers we are told to follow his example (1 Peter 2:21-22), to walk in the same way he walked (1 John 2:3-6), and to be imitators of him (1 Corinthians 11:1). Furthermore, Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent from our sins for the Kingdom of God is at hand (Matthew 4:17, 23) and the Mosaic Law was how his audience knew what sin is, so repenting from our disobedience to it is an integral part of the Gospel message, including repenting from breaking the Sabbath. In addition, Jesus also taught how to keep the Sabbath through his interactions with the Pharisees on the topic, such as in Matthew 12:1-13.

In Acts 15:21, the expectation was that Gentiles would continue to learn about how to obey Moses by hearing him taught every Sabbath in the synagogues. In Colossians 2:16, they were keeping God's holy days in obedience to God's commands in accordance with what Christ taught by word and by example, they were being judged by those teaching human precepts and traditions, self-made religion, asceticism, and severity to the body (Colossians 2:20-23) and Paul was writing to encourage them not to let any man judge them and keep them from obeying God. In 1 Peter 1:13-16, we are told to have a holy conduct for God is holy, which is a quote from Leviticus where God was giving instructions for how to have a holy conduct, which straightforwardly includes keeping God's Sabbaths holy (Leviticus 19:2-3).

The Sabbath is a precious gift from God give to His people for our own good in order to bless us, so even if we weren't commanded to keep it, then we should seek out the privilege and the delight of getting to keep it.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Oh yes there is my friend, as soon as circumcision folded so did the rest of the law. Your interpretation has failed to notify you of this obvious fact.

Here is your error. You mix up God's shadow laws from the MOSIAC book of the COVENANT *EXODUS 24:7 that pointed to JESUS and God's plan of salvation in the NEW COVENANT with GOD's eternal law that gives us the KNOWLDEGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN AND RIGHEOUSNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172. As a result you have no knowledge of what sin is. If we do not have a knowledge of what sin is we have no need of a Saviour. If we have no need of a Saviour then we have no salvation. If we have no salvation then we are lost because we are still in our sins. Can you see the error in your argument here brother? It denies the Word of God.

 

[ace of hearts]

Some Bible details are sooo incredibly obvious BOTH sides admit to seeing them... This is the easy part.

Why get stuck on the easy part??

Most of your list don't keep the 7th day sabbath.

 

[klutedavid]

That is not a fact at all. It is a statement outside of the scriptures. Only God's WORD is true and we should believe and follow it.

Problem is LGW, you must accept church history to keep the scripture. Reject church history and you forfeit the scripture. It does not get any simpler than that.

It is a fatal error to discard church history, yet you do not understand the gravity of your mistake. I cannot stress this point more.

For some reason your church is oblivious to the formation of the New Testament. Keep your head in the sand on this point and you will lose.

 

[BobRyan]

Most of your list don't keep the 7th day sabbath.

and "yet" they all admit to basic Bible details about the Sabbath commandment that you oppose - and I accept. Which was the point...

The point remains.

 

[klutedavid]

Most of your list don't keep the 7th day sabbath.

That's because this issue was resolved in 363 AD by the council in Laodocia. We know that Sunday worship was in full swing even before 363 AD.

 

[ace of hearts]

Do you say that to everyone that quotes "DO not take God's name in vain" to you?

If so... why? Did you think that the moral LAW of God written on the heart under the NEW Covenant got "deleted by grace"???

The famous 10 aren't written on the heart per Jeremiah 31:32.

 

[klutedavid]

and "yet" they all admit to basic Bible details about the Sabbath commandment that you oppose - and I accept. Which was the point...

The point remains.

The most basic reading of the scripture demonstrates that, Gentiles are not under the law. Gentiles never were under the law and never will be. Your flogging a dead horse, Bob.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Problem is LGW, you must accept church history to keep the scripture. Reject church history and you forfeit the scripture. It does not get any simpler than that.

It is a fatal error to discard church history, yet you do not understand the gravity of your mistake. I cannot stress this point more.

For some reason your church is oblivious to the formation of the New Testament. Keep your head in the sand on this point and you will lose.

Not really David. I put God's WORD first above all things because only God's WORD is true and we should believe and follow it over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God. JESUS says those who follow the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God are not following God *MATTHEW 15:3-9.

There is not one scripture in all of God's WORD that says that God's 4th commandment is now abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day.

In order to try and justify Sunday worship in place of God's 4th commandment many to try and seek sources outside of God's WORD to justify this tradition. Who do we believe God or man? I know who I believe *ROMANS 3:4.

There is so many different versions of History written that can be manipulated depending on the bias of writer. On the other hand God's WORD is true.

If you want to look at TRUE history from God's WORD, God's people have always kept God's 4th Commandment Sabbath from GENESIS to JESUS and the APOSTLES to after the death of JESUS all through time unbroken to this present day.

May God help you as you seek him through his Word.

 

[ace of hearts]

Is 66:23 "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship"




See page "one" of this thread... post #10.

It goes something like this

======================



Is 66:23 "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before Me to worship"

And at one point someone asked 'what does from mean'?

1 Sam 2:19
19 And his mother would make him a little robe and bring it to him from year to year when she would come up with her husband to offer the yearly sacrifice.

19 Moreover his mother made him a little coat, and brought it to him from year to year, when she came up with her husband to offer the yearly sacrifice.



Can you explain that for us?? are you simply not reading the post?



What part of "from year to year" and "from Sabbath to Sabbath" are you struggling with? will be glad to help out.

Did anyone see a discussion of the word "from?" I don't seem to be able to locate it.

 

[klutedavid]

Do you say that to everyone that quotes "DO not take God's name in vain" to you?

If so... why? Did you think that the moral LAW of God written on the heart under the NEW Covenant got "deleted by grace"???

Circumcision was deleted and so was the rest of the law. Indeed, saved by grace and not by the works of the law.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Circumcision was deleted and so was the rest of the law. Indeed, saved by grace and not by the works of the law.

This is your error again brother. You mix up God's shadow laws from the MOSIAC book of the COVENANT *EXODUS 24:7 that pointed to JESUS and God's plan of salvation in the NEW COVENANT with GOD's eternal law that gives us the KNOWLDEGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN AND RIGHEOUSNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172. As a result you have no knowledge of what sin is. If we do not have a knowledge of what sin is we have no need of a Saviour. If we have no need of a Saviour then we have no salvation. If we have no salvation then we are lost because we are still in our sins.

Can you see the error in your argument here brother? CIRCUMCISION is not one of the 10 commandments from God's eternal law. It is a Shadow law from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT *EXODUS 24:7. Your interpretation denies the Word of God.

 

[klutedavid]

Is 56:6-8 gentiles (not Jews) are specifically singled out for Sabbath keeping



Not true. They are gentiles. "Foreigners". And it does not matter where they live according to Isaiah 56.

“Also the foreigners who join themselves to the Lord,
To minister to Him, and to love the name of the Lord,
To be His servants, every one who keeps from profaning the Sabbath
And holds fast My covenant;
7 Even those I will bring to My holy mountain
And make them joyful in My house of prayer.
Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices will be acceptable on My altar;
For My house will be called a house of prayer for all the nations.”

Ex 12:48 does NOT say "anyone who keeps from profaning the Sabbath is a Jew". And we all know it.

Ex 12
48 But if a stranger sojourns with you, and celebrates the Passover to the Lord, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near to celebrate it; and he shall be like a native of the land. But no uncircumcised person may eat of it.

Nothing at all there about the weekly Sabbath - the Sabbath commandment. As we all can see clearly.

So it is gentiles .. foreigners "all nations" in Isaiah 56 -- not circumcised passover-keeping Jews.

And it is foreigners - "god fearers" in Acts 14 - gentiles that are worshiping in the Synagogue "Sabbath after Sabbath" and asking for MORE Gospel preaching "NEXT Sabbath" when the "entire town" shows up... still gentiles.

Thus it is that gentiles show up in Acts 17:1-4 and in Acts 18:4-6 Sabbath after Sabbath in the synagogue for Gospel preaching.



The text you reference only speaks about Passover and circumcision ... nothing at all in it about gentiles in all nations and the weekly Sabbath.

By contrast - the texts I point to - do reference gentiles in all nations and the weekly Sabbath. and we see them not only in Isaiah 56 but also in the NT - in Acts 13, Acts 17, Acts 18 -- Sabbath after Sabbath... gentiles, not Jews



Isaiah 56 does not say the foreigner lives in Israel. Those gentiles keeping Sabbath in Acts 13, Acts 17, Acts 18 were not in Israel, were not circumcised, were not Jews.

Read your quotations again.

Isaiah 56:7
...Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices will be acceptable on My altar...

That is a requirement under the old covenant.

 

[ace of hearts]

You seem confused. When you add the CONTEXT of the scriptures you try to quote it does not say what you are claiming.

I made no claim. I simply posted a passage. I need you to explain that passage. To say I don't understand the words of that passage because I only quoted a single verse lacks any proof. You did make a claim they are error which is proof you don't believe even the OT Scripture.

 

[ace of hearts]

Is 56:6-8 gentiles (not Jews) are specifically singled out for Sabbath keeping



Not true. They are gentiles. "Foreigners". And it does not matter where they live according to Isaiah 56.

Just flat out incredible.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I made no claim. I simply posted a passage. I need you to explain that passage. To say I don't understand the words of that passage because I only quoted a single verse lacks any proof. You did make a claim they are error which is proof you don't believe even the OT Scripture.

You should not read a single passage out of CONTEXT of what is written. Prayerfully read the passage in context of the rest of the scriptures seeking God's guidence and tell me what you think the chapter and scriptures are saying?