Why is the day of worship controversial?

[ace of hearts]

How does 1 Corinthians 16 prove that biblical history from GENESIS to REVELATION shows that God's people have always kept God's 4th commandment SEVENTH DAY SABBATH unbroken from ADAM and EVE through to JESUS and all the APOSTLES to after the death and ressurection of JESUS. Through to the early Church all through time to this very present day?

What day does your church receive offerings? Is it a day you don't meet for worship?

 

[ace of hearts]

Of course it does as shown in the video it was referring to.

I don't do videos.

 

[ace of hearts]

Now brother are you trying to say God's WORD is not true? You have been only provided God's WORD and are arguing for the traditions of men over the scriptures. You are free to believe and do as you wish your argument is between you and God as they are God's WORD not mine.

Do you wish to discuss your sabbath keeping compliance?

 

[ace of hearts]

You seem confused here brother. God's ISRAEL in the NEW COVENANT are all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD. If you are not a part of God's ISRAEL you have no part in the NEW COVENANT *HEBREWS 8:10-12. Gentiles are now grafted in *ROMANS 11:13-27. Need more scripture click me?

Post any verse containing a statement Christians are Israel.

 

[ace of hearts]

No it does not. Please supply the scripture in the NEW TESTAMENT that says the law of Moses is the 10 Commandments.

What is this - Joshua 8:32 And he wrote there upon the stones a copy of the law of Moses, which he wrote in the presence of the children of Israel.

 

[ace of hearts]

No we don't have a New Covenant ... we have a better covenant. God never breaks His covenant ... people do. OT Israel broke covenant with God. His covenant still stands.
The better of the original covenant is through Jesus and His sacrifice rather than the OT ceremonial/sacrificial system.

That better covenant is a new covenant. Yes I read Hebrews.

The 10 are eternal laws ... we can never keep them perfectly, but we are to strive towards that end not as works but because we love Him. Jesus helps us to overcome our sins (transgressions of the law) ... and that is a lifetime process. He paid our debts, He is our high priest and He will stand in our stead and God will see us as perfect through the blood of Jesus but that does not mean we can just ignore the big 10.

These eternal laws you talk about were added 430 years after Abraham and have expired upon the coming of the Seed (Jesus) - Gal 3. Besides that sin was in the world before the law - Rom 5:13.

Love .... if you love me ... keep my commandments.

If this is from John, its not the famous 10.

 

[ace of hearts]

It's not a major controversy in Christianity.

We can worship and gather together seven days a week if we want to.

You may be distracted by a controversy over a Jewish day of rest. Worship and rest mean different things.

It's that some try very hard to make it a controversy.

 

[ace of hearts]

True - it is a benefit, a blessing -- for mankind

"The Sabbath was made for mankind" Mark 2:27



Who says He waited??

Is 66:23 "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship"

I thought I ask you to explain the word "from" in your quote. Please do so.

Is 56:6-8 gentiles "specifically" singled out for Sabbath keeping (700 years B.C)

No. Any gentile that commits to that covenant is a Jew - Ex 12:48.

Gen 2:1-3 Sabbath given to all mankind in Eden - as even the Sunday groups freely admit when they argue that all mankind was given all TEN of the TEN Commandments in Eden.

You're mistaken here. The word "shabbath" doesn't appear in Genesis.

Which I keep pointing out here -

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism.

Yes you do and not they don't by practice. Some of them don't by confession like DL Moody.

Certainly it is true that all those listed agree that the Sabbath Commandment as well as all the other TEN Commandments are included in the moral law of God written on the heart under the New Covenant of Jer 31:31-33

No. See above. If you wish to discuss it with evidence, I'm game.

 

[ace of hearts]

Jer 31:31-33 God calls it the NEW Covenant and it includes the moral law of God that Jeremiah and his readers already knew about -- written on the heart and mind.

The Old Covenant in its purest form was given to sinless Adam , "Obey and live" and he eventually chose sin.

The New Covenant was introduced along with the New Birth so that sinful man could be saved.

Not according to Moses.

 

[BobRyan]

No we don't have a New Covenant ... we have a better covenant.

Jer 31:31-33 God calls it the NEW Covenant and it includes the moral law of God that Jeremiah and his readers already knew about -- written on the heart and mind.

The Old Covenant in its purest form was given to sinless Adam , "Obey and live" and he eventually chose sin.

The New Covenant was introduced along with the New Birth so that sinful man could be saved.

Not according to Moses.

Moses never uses the term "old covenant" for anything

 

[BobRyan]

Or people who want to follow Gods commandments.

With that said, the sabbath is given to us, we where not given to the sabbath. Just as Jesus said.

True - it is a benefit, a blessing -- for mankind

"The Sabbath was made for mankind" Mark 2:27

Do you care to explain why God waited some 4,000 years to make this known? Can you show how this verse makes the sabbath an obligation?

Who says He waited??

Is 66:23 "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship"
Is 56:6-8 gentiles "specifically" singled out for Sabbath keeping (700 years B.C)
Gen 2:1-3 Sabbath given to all mankind in Eden - as even the Sunday groups freely admit when they argue that all mankind was given all TEN of the TEN Commandments in Eden.

Which I keep pointing out here -

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism.

I thought I ask you to explain the word "from" in your quote. Please do so.

See page "one" of this thread... post #10.

It goes something like this

======================

BobRyan said: ↑
Lev 23
‘These are my appointed festivals, the appointed festivals of the Lord, which you are to proclaim as sacred assemblies.
3 “‘There are six days when you may work, but the seventh day is a day of sabbath rest, a day of sacred assembly. You are not to do any work; wherever you live, it is a Sabbath to the Lord.

It is one of the days of holy convocation, sacred assembly even though it is not limited to "yearly"

Is 66:23 "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before Me to worship"

And at one point someone asked 'what does from mean'?

1 Sam 2:19
19 And his mother would make him a little robe and bring it to him from year to year when she would come up with her husband to offer the yearly sacrifice.

19 Moreover his mother made him a little coat, and brought it to him from year to year, when she came up with her husband to offer the yearly sacrifice.

 

[klutedavid]

Do you think that reading God's Ten commandments is too confusing for people??

We gather and celebrate the risen Christ, what has that got to do with a Jewish day off?

 

[BobRyan]

Is 56:6-8 gentiles (not Jews) are specifically singled out for Sabbath keeping

Any gentile that commits to that covenant is a Jew - Ex 12:48. .

Not true. They are gentiles. "Foreigners". And it does not matter where they live according to Isaiah 56.

“Also the foreigners who join themselves to the Lord,
To minister to Him, and to love the name of the Lord,
To be His servants, every one who keeps from profaning the Sabbath
And holds fast My covenant;
7 Even those I will bring to My holy mountain
And make them joyful in My house of prayer.
Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices will be acceptable on My altar;
For My house will be called a house of prayer for all the nations.”

Ex 12:48 does NOT say "anyone who keeps from profaning the Sabbath is a Jew". And we all know it.

Ex 12
48 But if a stranger sojourns with you, and celebrates the Passover to the Lord, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near to celebrate it; and he shall be like a native of the land. But no uncircumcised person may eat of it.

Nothing at all there about the weekly Sabbath - the Sabbath commandment. As we all can see clearly.

So it is gentiles .. foreigners "all nations" in Isaiah 56 -- not circumcised passover-keeping Jews.

And it is foreigners - "god fearers" in Acts 14 - gentiles that are worshiping in the Synagogue "Sabbath after Sabbath" and asking for MORE Gospel preaching "NEXT Sabbath" when the "entire town" shows up... still gentiles.

Thus it is that gentiles show up in Acts 17:1-4 and in Acts 18:4-6 Sabbath after Sabbath in the synagogue for Gospel preaching.

 

[BobRyan]

You may be distracted by a controversy over a Jewish day of rest. Worship and rest mean different things.

Do you think that reading God's Ten commandments is too confusing for people??

We gather and celebrate the risen Christ, what has that got to do with a Jewish day off?

From the Bible point of view - it does not have anything at all to do with the Sabbath commandment. What is your point? Tradition?

 

[BobRyan]

"The Sabbath was made for mankind" Mark 2:27
Is 66:23 "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship"
Is 56:6-8 gentiles "specifically" singled out for Sabbath keeping (700 years B.C)
Gen 2:1-3 Sabbath given to all mankind in Eden -

The word "shabbath" doesn't appear in Genesis.

Until you read Genesis 2:1-3 and Exodus 20:11 in the Sabbath commandment to see WHEN it was made into a holy day for all mankind.

Gen 2
Thus the heavens and the earth were completed, and all their hosts. 2 By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.

Ex 20:11
11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

It was done in Genesis 2.

as even the Sunday groups freely admit when they argue that all mankind was given all TEN of the TEN Commandments in Eden.

Which I keep pointing out here -

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism.

===================

Yes you do and not they don't by practice. Some of them don't by confession like DL Moody.
No. See above. If you wish to discuss it with evidence, I'm game.

They all confess that ALL TEN of the TEN Commandments were applicable to all mankind in Eden.
D.L. Moody is very explicit on the Sabbath Commandment in Eden.

==================== D.L. Moody on the Sabbath Commandment

The Fourth Commandment

Remember the Sabbath Day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: for in six days the LORD made heaven and Earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath Day, and hallowed it.


THERE HAS BEEN an awful letting-down in this country regarding the Sabbath during the last twenty-five years, and many a man has been shorn of spiritual power, like Samson, because he is not straight on this question. Can you say that you observe the Sabbath properly? You may be a professed Christian: are you obeying this commandment? Or do you neglect the house of God on the Sabbath day, and spend your time drinking and carousing in places of vice and crime, showing contempt for God and His law? Are you ready to step into the scales? Where were you last Sabbath? How did you spend it?

I honestly believe that this commandment is just as binding today as it ever was. I have talked with men who have said that it has been abrogated, but they have never been able to point to any place in the Bible where God repealed it. When Christ was on earth, He did nothing to set it aside; He freed it from the traces under which the scribes and Pharisees had put it, and gave it its true place.
"The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath." (Mark 2:27)
It is just as practicable and as necessary for men today as it ever was- in fact, more than ever, because we live in such an intense age.

The Sabbath was binding in Eden, and it has been in force ever since. The fourth commandment begins with the word remember, showing that the Sabbath already existed when God wrote this law on the tables of stone at Sinai. How can men claim that this one commandment has been done away with when they will admit that the other nine are still binding?

I believe that the Sabbath question today is a vital one for the whole country. It is the burning question of the present time. If you give up the Sabbath the church goes; if you give up the church the home goes; and if the home goes the nation goes. That is the direction in which we are traveling.

The church of God is losing its power on account of so many people giving up the Sabbath, and using it to promote selfishness.
from: THE TEN COMMANDMENTS text by D. L. Moody
=================================== End quote

 

[ace of hearts]

See page "one" of this thread... post #10.

I didn't see any discussion of the word "from" in that post.

It goes something like this

======================



Is 66:23 "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before Me to worship"

And at one point someone asked 'what does from mean'?

1 Sam 2:19
19 And his mother would make him a little robe and bring it to him from year to year when she would come up with her husband to offer the yearly sacrifice.

19 Moreover his mother made him a little coat, and brought it to him from year to year, when she came up with her husband to offer the yearly sacrifice.

Nor this one. I did see the word being quoted in other passages, but no discussion.

 

[klutedavid]

Do you think that reading God's Ten commandments is too confusing for people??



From the Bible point of view - it does not have anything at all to do with the Sabbath commandment. What is your point?

We are under grace and not under the law.

Legal obedience is not a requirement for us, the only outstanding debt is to love others.

A new covenant is in force now, not the old covenant of Mt Sinai.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Do you think that reading God's Ten commandments is too confusing for people??

If anyone trust not Jesus, trusting instead demons or men or no one, then yes, all Scripture will be confusing and incomprehensible to them.

If anyone trust Jesus (with their whole heart and mind) , then no confusion at all. (though men and demons will fight hard to convince them that the Bible is not true. It is life and death battle; )

 

[klutedavid]

Hello Bob.

The following is a list of traditions forged by men.

Which I keep pointing out here -

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism.

If the Catholic Catechism agrees with you, then you have serious issues indeed.

 

[BobRyan]

Hello Bob.

The following is a list of traditions forged by men.

If the Catholic Catechism agrees with you, then you have serious issues indeed.

Some Bible details are sooo incredibly obvious BOTH sides admit to seeing them... This is the easy part.

Why get stuck on the easy part??