Why is the day of worship controversial?

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Sorry, that isn't even close to Truth.

 

[ace of hearts]

Ace did not read accurately .... see my post - I never said Constantine was in the first century.

Double check, test everything posted .

I did read you posted "
and that's still not when the divergence happened ...
it was a few hundred years later, although some gradually over that time,
when the followers of Jesus were threatened by Constantine to either convert to Catholicism or flea/ be exiled/ , or die. (many were killed)." in your post #31.

My point is that He wasn't in the 1st century and therefore did nothing to change common practice of Christians, They were already largely worshiping on Sunday.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I did read you posted "
and that's still not when the divergence happened ...
it was a few hundred years later, although some gradually over that time,
when the followers of Jesus were threatened by Constantine to either convert to Catholicism or flea/ be exiled/ , or die. (many were killed)." in your post #31.

My point is that He wasn't in the 1st century and therefore did nothing to change common practice of Christians, They were already largely worshiping on Sunday.

Again, so what ? You were wrong before, and still what difference does it make worshiping on the 1st day ? That is not a violation of TORAH to worship on the 1st day, nor is it a sin unless something else is going on.

 

[ace of hearts]

Sorry, that isn't even close to Truth.

Support your claim. with text. The word in Genesis for rested is "shabath" a verb. "Shabbath" a noun first appears in Ex 16.

 

[ace of hearts]

Again, so what ? You were wrong before, and still what difference does it make worshiping on the 1st day ? That is not a violation of TORAH to worship on the 1st day, nor is it a sin unless something else is going on.

What's your point? There's no command in the NT for anyone to worship on the sabbath. Neither is a command to rest on the sabbath in the NT. The law is a has been according to Luke 16:16.

16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.

17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.

Verse 17 doesn't invalidate verse 16 nor does it mean the law is still in force. No I didn't give permission to sin.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Support your claim. with text. The word in Genesis for rested is "shabath" a verb. "Shabbath" a noun first appears in Ex 16.

Still asking so what ? That does not look true nor agree in harmony with all Scripture as was pointed out many times on this forum (not sure on this thread) .
That looks like you believed someone else's twisted meanings or/and a perversion of TORAH.

 

[ace of hearts]

You mean - daily devotions? You want to know what that is? or are you asking why secular activity is permitted on those other days but not on God's Sabbath?

No I'm not talking about daily devotions and you know it. No I'm not asking why Israel was prohibited from "secular" activities on the sabbath. Gentiles aren't because we were never under that covenant.

 

[ace of hearts]

Still asking so what ? That does not look true nor agree in harmony with all Scripture as was pointed out many times on this forum (not sure on this thread) .
That looks like you believed someone else's twisted meanings or/and a perversion of TORAH.

No I'm not asking. Yes I'm in harmony with all Scripture. Nothing from the OT has any bearing on Christians. Neither does the historical aspects of the NT where the sabbath is mentioned. The New Covenant promised by Jeremiah isn't like the one issued to their fathers after their departure from Egypt. The NT doesn't contain a requirement to keep the any of the law including the famous 10.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

No I'm not asking.

I'm still asking so what ? (not you asking)
It doesn't look like you agree with Scripture.
I don't know anything about your history or why you would choose to oppose Scripture.

 

[Kenny'sID]

Why on earth does every last one of the original apostolic Churches worship on Sunday?

I haven't finished reading the thread so maybe you did eventually, but Rob gave scripture as the op asked, and I was waiting for yours as well hoping to learn something here.

 

[Lost4words]

No scripture? I did not think so.

Where does it say in God's WORD? (Scripture please)

1. That God's 4th commandments 7th day Sabbath has been abolished?

2. That Jesus is a Sabbath?

3. The Sabbath (seventh day) was ever changed from the seventh to the first day of the week?

4. Where we are told to keep the first day of the week holy?

5. Where the first day of the week (Sunday) is ever called a holy day?

6. That says that Jesus ever kept the first day (Sunday)?

7. That tells us to keep the first day in honour of the resurrection of Christ?

8. Where the first day is ever given any sacred name?

9. That affirms that any of the apostles ever kept the first day as the Sabbath?

10. From any apostolic writings that authorizes Sunday observance as the Sabbath of God?

11. Where we are told not to work on the first day of the week?

12. That says the seventh day is no longer God's Sabbath day?

13. That says the seventh day Sabbath is ABOLISHED?

14. Where the apostles ever taught any convert to keep the first day of the week as a Sabbath?

15. Where the first day was ever appointed to be kept as the Lord's Day?

16. Where the first day of the week is ever called the Lord's Day?

17. That says that the first day of the week was ever sanctified and hallowed as a day of rest?

18. That says that the Father or the Son (Jesus) rested on the first day of the week?

19. That says that Jesus, Paul or any other of the apostles taught anyone to observe the first day of the week as the Sabbath?

20. That calls the seventh day the “Jewish Sabbath” or one text that calls Sunday the “Christian Sabbath”?

21. Telling man to keep the first day of the week holy or to worship or rest on the first day of the week?

22. Authorizing anyone to set aside God's Sabbath and observe any other day?

23. Showing any of the apostles keeping the first day of the week as the Sabbath?

24. Authorizing someone to set aside the fourth Commandment and observe any other day of the week?

25. Where any apostle taught us to keep the first day of the week as the Sabbath?

26. Declaring that the seventh day is no longer the Eternal Sabbath day?

27. Where Sunday is now appointed to be kept as the New Testament Sabbath or holy day?

You do not have to answer these questions if your not able to. They should at the very least give you something to pray about and think about if your serious to follow God's WORD.

God's sheep hear his Voice (the Word)

What day is the sabbath? Which day of the week?

Saturday isnt it?

So why the fuss? Christians worship the Day of Our Lord. His resurrection. On a Sunday.

Where in the Bible does it say we cant do that?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

What day is the sabbath? Which day of the week?

Saturday isnt it?

So why the fuss? Christians worship the Day of Our Lord. His resurrection. On a Sunday.

Where in the Bible does it say we cant do that?

You can worship God any day of the week. God's 4th commandment that gives us a knowledge of sin if broken *ROMANS 3:20 says we are to keep the SEVENTH DAY as a HOLY DAY because God BLESSED and SANCTIFIED the SEVENTH DAY of the creation week *GENESIS 2:1-3.

According to God's 4th commandment *EXODUS 20:8-11 we are not to do any of our own work or business including buying and selling or domestic work on the SEVENTH DAY. This is the day God has made for his people and commands us to keep this day as a HOLY DAY as a memorial of creation *EXODUS 20:8-11; GENESIS 2:1-3; MARK 2:27-28.

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now, <when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).

 

[Sara Shaffer]

The Church has always met on every day of the week. This does not make those days BLESSED by GOD and a HOLY DAY that no work is to be done * EXODUS 20:8-11

ACTS 2:47-48
[46], And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,
[47], Praising God, and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

Sunday is the Lord’s day. Read the writings of the Early Church Fathers.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Sunday is the Lord’s day. Read the writings of the Early Church Fathers.

Hi Sara, not according to God's WORD it's not. According to God's WORD the LORD'S DAY is the SABBATH DAY.

Let's start by looking at your scriptures that many use to claim SUNDAY is the "LORD'S DAY"

REVELATION 1:9-11 [9] I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ. [10], I was in the Spirit on the LORD'S DAY, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet, [11], Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What you see, write in a book, and send it to the seven churches which are in Asia; to Ephesus, and to Smyrna, and to Pergamos, and to Thyatira, and to Sardis, and to Philadelphia, and to Laodicea.

No doubt about it Revelations 1:10 clearly says that John was in the SPIRIT on the "LORD'S DAY"!

NOW the only problem you have is the need to show scripture that says SUNDAY IS THE LORD'S DAY.

Can you please provide scripture that says SUNDAY or the FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK is the "LORD'S DAY"?

If you cannot find any scriptures to say that SUNDAY is the "LORD'S DAY" then you have a problem.

.............

Now let's look at the scriptures that give the answer to our question

Q. WHAT DAY IS THE "LORD'S DAY" ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURE?

A. MATTHEW 12:8 [8], FOR THE SON OF MAN IS LORD OF THE SABBATH DAY.

Which day is the Lord's Day? THE SABBATH DAY (MATTHEW 12:8; MARK 2:27-28)

God's WORD says that the SABBATH DAY IS THE LORD'S DAY!

There is NO scripture that says Sunday or the FIRST DAY of the week is the Lords Day. God's Word says the Lord's day is the Sabbath day. This is the day God rested on, he set apart and made a Holy day at the completion of the creation week and made a memorial for all mankind (Genesis 2:1-3; Exodus 20:8-11). Jesus is the God of creation and he is the Lord of the Sabbath day (Matthew 12:8; Mark 2:27-28)

.............

The SABBATH is the 4th Commandment of God's 10 Commandments and there is not one scripture in ALL of God's WORD that says that God's 4th Commandment has been ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to keep SUNDAY as a HOLY DAY. The same as there is not one scripture in ALL of God's WORD that says that SUNDAY is the LORD'S DAY.

John in the book of REVELATIONS 1:10 was in the SPIRIT on the SABBATH DAY not SUNDAY!

According to biblical history from GENESIS to REVELATION God's people have always kept God's 4th commandment SEVENTH DAY SABBATH unbroken from ADAM and EVE through to JESUS and all the APOSTLES to after the death and ressurection of JESUS. Through to the early Church all through time to this very present day.

.............

HOW WAS THE LORD'S DAY CHANGED TO SUNDAY?

SUNDAY Worship is a teaching and tradition of men handed down by the Roman Catholic Church that has lead many to break and ignore God's 4th Commandment (Exodus 20:8-11)

.............

ARE YOU FOLLOWING A MAN MADE TRADITION IN SUNDAY WORSHIP?

God's WORD is very clear. If we follow the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God then we are not following God...

MATTHEW 15:3-9
[3], But he answered and said to them, Why do you also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?
[4], For God commanded, saying, Honor your father and mother: and, He that curses father or mother, let him die the death.
[5], But you say, Whoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatever you might be profited by me;
[6], And honor not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have you made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.
[7], You hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
[8], This people draws near to me with their mouth, and honors me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
[9], But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Who do we believe and follow? The teachings and traditions of men or the WORD of God? Only God's WORD is true and we should BELIEVE and FOLLOW it over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God.

.................

SIN is when we knowingly break any one of God's 10 Commandments (Romans 7:7; Romans 3:20; James 2:11; 1 John 3:4) Those who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT ENTER the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

.................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day.

In times of ignorance God winks at but when as knowledge of the truth has come God calls on all men everywhere to repent and believe his Word (Acts 17:30-31)

God's is calling his people to come out from following the traditions of men to worship him in Spirit and in truth.

..................

God knows many follow these traditions from ignorance because they do not know any better. He loves all and is calling all who have ears to hear and eyes to see. Seek him in prayer asking for his Spirit to guide and teach you. He promises to be your guide and teacher. (John 14:26; 16:13: 7:17)

God bless.

 

[Sara Shaffer]

Hi Sara, not according to God's WORD it's not. According to God's WORD the LORD'S DAY is the SABBATH DAY.

Let's start by looking at your scriptures that many use to claim SUNDAY is the "LORD'S DAY"

REVELATION 1:9-11 [9] I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ. [10], I was in the Spirit on the LORD'S DAY, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet, [11], Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What you see, write in a book, and send it to the seven churches which are in Asia; to Ephesus, and to Smyrna, and to Pergamos, and to Thyatira, and to Sardis, and to Philadelphia, and to Laodicea.

No doubt about it Revelations 1:10 clearly says that John was in the SPIRIT on the "LORD'S DAY"!

NOW the only problem you have is the need to show scripture that says SUNDAY IS THE LORD'S DAY.

Can you please provide scripture that says SUNDAY or the FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK is the "LORD'S DAY"?

If you cannot find any scriptures to say that SUNDAY is the "LORD'S DAY" then you have a problem.

.............

Now let's look at the scriptures that give the answer to our question

Q. WHAT DAY IS THE "LORD'S DAY" ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURE?

A. MATTHEW 12:8 [8], FOR THE SON OF MAN IS LORD OF THE SABBATH DAY.

Which day is the Lord's Day? THE SABBATH DAY (MATTHEW 12:8; MARK 2:27-28)

God's WORD says that the SABBATH DAY IS THE LORD'S DAY!

There is NO scripture that says Sunday or the FIRST DAY of the week is the Lords Day. God's Word says the Lord's day is the Sabbath day. This is the day God rested on, he set apart and made a Holy day at the completion of the creation week and made a memorial for all mankind (Genesis 2:1-3; Exodus 20:8-11). Jesus is the God of creation and he is the Lord of the Sabbath day (Matthew 12:8; Mark 2:27-28)

.............

The SABBATH is the 4th Commandment of God's 10 Commandments and there is not one scripture in ALL of God's WORD that says that God's 4th Commandment has been ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to keep SUNDAY as a HOLY DAY. The same as there is not one scripture in ALL of God's WORD that says that SUNDAY is the LORD'S DAY.

John in the book of REVELATIONS 1:10 was in the SPIRIT on the SABBATH DAY not SUNDAY!

According to biblical history from GENESIS to REVELATION God's people have always kept God's 4th commandment SEVENTH DAY SABBATH unbroken from ADAM and EVE through to JESUS and all the APOSTLES to after the death and ressurection of JESUS. Through to the early Church all through time to this very present day.

.............

HOW WAS THE LORD'S DAY CHANGED TO SUNDAY?

SUNDAY Worship is a teaching and tradition of men handed down by the Roman Catholic Church that has lead many to break and ignore God's 4th Commandment (Exodus 20:8-11)

.............

ARE YOU FOLLOWING A MAN MADE TRADITION IN SUNDAY WORSHIP?

God's WORD is very clear. If we follow the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God then we are not following God...

MATTHEW 15:3-9
[3], But he answered and said to them, Why do you also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?
[4], For God commanded, saying, Honor your father and mother: and, He that curses father or mother, let him die the death.
[5], But you say, Whoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatever you might be profited by me;
[6], And honor not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have you made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.
[7], You hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
[8], This people draws near to me with their mouth, and honors me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
[9], But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Who do we believe and follow? The teachings and traditions of men or the WORD of God? Only God's WORD is true and we should BELIEVE and FOLLOW it over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God.

.................

SIN is when we knowingly break any one of God's 10 Commandments (Romans 7:7; Romans 3:20; James 2:11; 1 John 3:4) Those who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT ENTER the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

.................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day.

In times of ignorance God winks at but when as knowledge of the truth has come God calls on all men everywhere to repent and believe his Word (Acts 17:30-31)

God's is calling his people to come out from following the traditions of men to worship him in Spirit and in truth.

..................

God knows many follow these traditions from ignorance because they do not know any better. He loves all and is calling all who have ears to hear and eyes to see. Seek him in prayer asking for his Spirit to guide and teach you. He promises to be your guide and teacher. (John 14:26; 16:13: 7:17)

God bless.

No. The Lord’s Day is Sunday. Read all the writings of the Early Church they confirm this.

 

[BobRyan]

Thanks Bob, I'm trying to make up for lost time but you guys are on another level.. it's hard trying to take it all in. I do appreciate that you;re trying to make it accessible to us though!

No problem. I have been participating in these Sabbath discussions for many years - I have seen every angle one can imagine for being against the 4th commandment but I have also seen all the Bible evidence in favor of it as well.

 

[BobRyan]

No. The Lord’s Day is Sunday.

Not if you are talking about reading the Bible. The Bible does not say "The Lord's day is Sunday" and it also does not say "the Lord's Day is week-day-1"... but it does say
"The seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD" Ex 20:10
"the Son of man is LORD of the Sabbath" Mark 2:28
"The Sabbath is the Holy Day of the LORD" Isaiah 58:13-14 NASB
The Sabbath is the Lord's Holy Day" Is 58:13 NIV

Read all the writings of the Early Church they confirm this.

This is true - centuries later reading enough of them eventually they make it clear that it evolved to be week-day-1

Jesus addressed the entire topic of editing/tweeking God's Commandments via man made evolved tradition in Mark 7:6-13. A very fascinating text from Christ.

 

[BobRyan]

No because the word "shabbath" (sabbath) doesn't appear until Ex 16. .

"Do not take God's name in vain" does not appear until Exodus 20 and it not found at all in the NT.

Which means nothing in terms of license to ignore that command of God. (As I am sure we both agree)

By contrast the 4th commandment in Ex 20:11 points directly at Genesis 2:1-3 as the point WHEN God made the Sabbath day Holy and thus binding for mankind.

Now wonder even the Sunday groups admit the Sabbath was binding on mankind in Eden, as all TEN of the TEN Commandments are included in the moral law of God

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism.

 

[BobRyan]

Ace did not read accurately .... see my post - I never said Constantine was in the first century.

Double check, test everything posted .

Yep that is the case... details matter.

 

[BobRyan]

Or people who want to follow Gods commandments.

With that said, the sabbath is given to us, we where not given to the sabbath. Just as Jesus said.

True - it is a benefit, a blessing -- for mankind

"The Sabbath was made for mankind" Mark 2:27