LDS why is the BOM in King James English

[mmksparbud]

That is because Lehi was already dead. But He did visit Lehi's descendants:

(New Testament | John 10:16)

16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

You say this in response to this statement

He did not visit the Lehi's after His death.

To then say that's because Lehi was dead--doesn't as an answer to my statement---I said "Lehi's, I did not say Lehi. And I also said, After He left earth, Jesus sat down at the right hand of God, and then He changed His robe and became our High Priest, a roll He continues in to this day. He sets that job down at the appointed time when all have made their decisions and then He changes His garments and comes to get us. The bible has Him in different robes for His different positions. He never said a word about going to any other country. The other sheep He "has", not He has to get. They are already His, they are, however, not of the Jews for they are "other". So that wording in no way declares He is going to go and make them His sheep, they already are. They are the ones, who have heard His voice in their hearts and are searching for Him---the Gentiles. And those are the express job of Paul and the rest of the apostles and continue to this day with gathering them for the time of the latter rain. So, NO! Jesus did not go to the Lehi's. Which I know you will not believe, and you will continue believing what you want to, regardless of any truth presented you.

 

[He is the way]

The historical record regarding the Egyptian language, in all the places where it has been found. (None of those places are anywhere in the Americas.)

Some scholars have theorized and attempted to prove that there are strong similarities between ancient Egypt's languages and Native Americans of the Louisiana area . Barry Fell has stated that the language of several Indigenous Amerindian tribes {Atakapas, Tunica and Chitimacha tribes} have striking similarities with Nile Valley languages of 2,000 years ago.

The written languages of Egypt and Central American also bare similarities . Cultures from both sides of the Atlantic used hieroglyphics . Both cultures utilized their written languages for practical purposes. Ancient Egyptians kept business records and corresponded over distances. In many tombs in the Americas, hieroglyphics indicate the deceased's name and death date.


"New Orleans, LA August 1, 2006.- In a study of comparative linguistics of three Native Indian languages from Louisiana (Atakapa, Chitmacha and Tunica), Charles William Johnson ... has identified certain correspondences between these languages and the ancient Egyptian hieroglyphs. Johnson considered that if the earth mounds of Louisiana shared perhaps a common geodesic grid system with the pyramids of Giza, then possibly the languages of these peoples may be related as well." [*4]

From: Ancient Egypt in America

(1.) Egypt is associated with pyramids, but the most pyramids are in the Americas:

• Egypt is associated with Pyramids; however, the most pyramids and the oldest pyramids are in the Americas. There are more pyramids in North America than all of Africa. Now, when we include Central and South America its not even a contest anymore. “America is the True Old World” – Book Sample, gives greater detail on this topic and it is a fast and good read. Please read it here:

From: 10 Reasons Why Ancient Egypt was in the Americas. | America is the Old World

The Egyptians and Mayans both used hieroglyphs, consisting of pictographs or symbols, to express meaning in written language. Mayan writing, which is often described by scholars as the most sophisticated writing system in the pre-Columbian Americas, was dubbed “hieroglyphics” (or hieroglyphs) by early eighteenth and nineteenth century European explorers, including Augustus Le Plongeon, who noticed its similarity to Egyptian hieroglyphics.

Egyptian hieroglyphs consist of phonograms, which are placed at the beginning of words to represent sounds, whereas ideograms are used to represent objects or ideas. Mayan hieroglyphs consist of pictographs written in neat blocks that include phonograms and ideograms.

Is it possible that Mayan and Egyptian glyphs both evolved from the same “proto-language” or that perhaps one of them may have in fact served as an origin for the other?

From: The Ancient Egyptians and Mayans: Ten Unexplained Parallels - Graham Hancock Official Website

 

[dzheremi]

I don't accept a bunch of conspiracy nonsense from random idiots' websites like "americaistheoldworld.com". Such trash is worth less than nothing. Please note that when I claim something about language, I cite the academic references from which the claim comes. De Gruyter (publishers of the volume that contains Funk's chapter on the dialects of Coptic cited earlier) is an actual academic publisher, for instance, specializing in linguistics and communication sciences. They were founded in Prussia 271 years ago. This academic publisher is significantly older than your entire religion.

Don't come at me with nonsense as though whatever trash you found on the internet written by a crazy person is somehow to be taken equally seriously as dispassionate, academically valid work done by specialists who are knowledgeable in the relevant fields. I don't take stupid conspiracy websites seriously, and neither should you or anyone.

 

[Peter1000]

I don't accept a bunch of conspiracy nonsense from random idiots' websites like "americaistheoldworld.com". Such trash is worth less than nothing. Please note that when I claim something about language, I cite the academic references from which the claim comes. De Gruyter (publishers of the volume that contains Funk's chapter on the dialects of Coptic cited earlier) is an actual academic publisher, for instance, specializing in linguistics and communication sciences. They were founded in Prussia 271 years ago. This academic publisher is significantly older than your entire religion.

Well now, true to your color, you trash any Mormon author, Ph.d or not, and you trash any non-Mormon, Ph.d or not who agrees with any part of our BOM scenario. It is actually a little nauseating to see you trash peoples and doctors who do not come from your little clade of academia, who 1) do not have an opinion about Central American history or 2) do not approve of anything Mormon having to do with Central America.
Anything against Mormons, you are for. Anything for Mormons, you are against. So your bias is flapping in the wind, with ever urgent flapping.

Also, I haven't seen that you answered my post #175. I am still interested. If you have, I apologize, tell me where and I will read it.[/QUOTE]

 

[Tra Phull]

The Bible does NOT say that Jesus did NOT send extraterrestials from Kolob to the ancient civilizations of the Incas, Toltecs, Mayans and Aztecs, or to various Egyptian cultures, including a non-existent one which spoke Reformed Egyptian in their non-existence.

Carved on Inca stones steps were word-for-word quotes from the New Testament, dated 400 BC - IN KING JAMES ENGLISH !!

 

[Peter1000]

You say this in response to this statement


To then say that's because Lehi was dead--doesn't as an answer to my statement---I said "Lehi's, I did not say Lehi. And I also said, After He left earth, Jesus sat down at the right hand of God, and then He changed His robe and became our High Priest, a roll He continues in to this day. He sets that job down at the appointed time when all have made their decisions and then He changes His garments and comes to get us. The bible has Him in different robes for His different positions. He never said a word about going to any other country. The other sheep He "has", not He has to get. They are already His, they are, however, not of the Jews for they are "other". So that wording in no way declares He is going to go and make them His sheep, they already are. They are the ones, who have heard His voice in their hearts and are searching for Him---the Gentiles. And those are the express job of Paul and the rest of the apostles and continue to this day with gathering them for the time of the latter rain. So, NO! Jesus did not go to the Lehi's. Which I know you will not believe, and you will continue believing what you want to, regardless of any truth presented you.

What does different robes for different positions have to do with anything?

We can make a strong case for Jesus saying that he was going to go to other countries, by just knowing:
1) Jesus was sent to the House of Israel to preach the gospel personally. The House of Israel by that time was spread all over the world, it did not exist only in the Jerusalem area. Therefore by logical thinking, Jesus would want to go to other places in the world to speak to other folds of the House of Israel. One such fold, the BOM people in the Americas (which happen to be of the house of Joseph, of the House of Israel) is only one fold that we now have their record of Jesus coming to them and preaching his gospel. There are others too. We have not been given their record yet.
2) The scripture says that "they will hear his voice". Not the voice of an apostle, but the voice of Jesus personally. This is exactly what happened as recorded in the 3 book of Nephi in the BOM. They heard his voice, they touched the marks in his hands and side and feet, and he was with them for many days and then when he left, he said he would return.

So I know you don't believe in any of it, but I do, and we have a strong position about the interpretation of the bible scritpure, for the 2 same reasons:
1) the gentiles in any congregation did not hear Jesus's voice. Some incidents where Jesus mixed with one or so gentiles, but not a body of gentiles heard his voice.
2) the gentiles were not of the House of Israel. And Jesus even said it out loud when he told a Canaanite women this:
Matthew 15:21-29 King James Version (KJV)
21 Then Jesus went thence, and departed into the coasts of Tyre and Sidon.
22 And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.
23 But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.
24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
25 Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.
26 But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs.
27 And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table.
28 Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.
29 And Jesus departed from thence, and came nigh unto the sea of Galilee; and went up into a mountain, and sat down there.

Jesus was sent to the entire House of Israel, not just the Jews (house of Judah). The gentiles did not in a collective way hear his voice, they were not a fold of the lost sheep of the House of Israel.

So I believe our interpretation is far stronger than your interpretation, but believe what you will.

 

[Tra Phull]

Painting of the Last Supper by da Vinci pales in comparison to "Quetzylcoatyl and the Last Supper". There were two copies - neither survived - lost or burned in a fire or something...

Montezuma himself was taken to Kolob. The Kolobites provided him with much wisdom.

 

[Tra Phull]

The Kolobites were a 3-eyed people. Their glasses were made of a seer stone, a Urim, and a Thummim.

With these they could see for miles.

Even light-years.

 

[Tra Phull]

Dup

 

[He is the way]

I don't accept a bunch of conspiracy nonsense from random idiots' websites like "americaistheoldworld.com". Such trash is worth less than nothing. Please note that when I claim something about language, I cite the academic references from which the claim comes. De Gruyter (publishers of the volume that contains Funk's chapter on the dialects of Coptic cited earlier) is an actual academic publisher, for instance, specializing in linguistics and communication sciences. They were founded in Prussia 271 years ago. This academic publisher is significantly older than your entire religion.

Don't come at me with nonsense as though whatever trash you found on the internet written by a crazy person is somehow to be taken equally seriously as dispassionate, academically valid work done by specialists who are knowledgeable in the relevant fields. I don't take stupid conspiracy websites seriously, and neither should you or anyone.

American Hieroglyphics
The Symbol of the Egyptian Hieroglyphics in the American Renaissance

John T. Irwin



A sophisticated examination of the American Symbolists, back in print for the first time in more than a decade.

From: American Hieroglyphics | Johns Hopkins University Press Books

 

[He is the way]

The Kolobites were a 3-eyed people. Their glasses were made of a seer stone, a Urim, and a Thummim.

With these they could see for miles.

Even light-years.

??????

 

[dzheremi]

American Hieroglyphics
The Symbol of the Egyptian Hieroglyphics in the American Renaissance

John T. Irwin



A sophisticated examination of the American Symbolists, back in print for the first time in more than a decade.

From: American Hieroglyphics | Johns Hopkins University Press Books

What does this book have to do with your claims? Its synopsis is:

The discovery of the Rosetta Stone and the subsequent decipherment of Egyptian hieroglyphics captured the imaginations of nineteenth-century American writers and provided a focal point for their speculations on the relationships between sign, symbol, language, and meaning. Through fresh readings of classic works by Emerson, Thoreau, Whitman, Poe, Hawthorne, and Melville, John T. Irwin’s American Hieroglyphics examines the symbolic mode associated with the pictographs.

Irwin demonstrates how American Symbolist literature of the period was motivated by what he calls "hieroglyphic doubling," the use of pictographic expression as a medium of both expression and interpretation. Along the way, he touches upon a wide range of topics that fascinated people of the day, including the journey to the source of the Nile and ideas about the origin of language.​

There doesn't appear to be any connection between this and the Mormon idea of "Reformed Egyptian". Talking about how nineteenth-century American writers speculated on the nature of Egyptian Hieroglyphs and incorporated pictographic expressions into their literary works is not the same as claiming that ancient Hebrew Indians produced a golden book in a language nobody had ever heard of before or since. That's not even related.

Be honest: did you just Google "Hieroglyphics + America" and post the first thing that came up from an academic source? I don't want to accuse you of that, but I don't see how you would otherwise come up with this particular source as supposed academic backing of your claims, since in reality it doesn't appear to have anything to do with the Mormon claims.

 

[mmksparbud]

What does different robes for different positions have to do with anything?

Just an interesting note. The bible does describe what Jesus is wearing at times---anything the bible has to say about certain actions Jesus takes is of interest. He is described as wearing different robes doing different actions. He dons His Priestly robes, then He is acting as Priest. Just an interesting sidelight that may or may not have any importance---however, it apparently has an importance to Jesus or He wouldn't have mentioned it. It is in the noticing and studying of seemingly unimportant details, that we find out more depth to our biblical studies.

And if you look up things, you find that many people have "heard His voice." In Alaska, way before a white man was seen, In Africa---other places. People all over the world have indeed heard His voice before we have shown up. Even today. Some indigenous tribes in South America had already heard His voice. Jesus does not need to be physically present for His voice to be heard---Samuel heard it in his sleep. Solomon, Moses, the prophets, John the Revelator---they all heard his voice without His body being physically present. He did send his disciples to evangelize the world also and just about every denomination sends out missionaries---Jesus speaks through them also.
Maniilaq, the Eskimo Prophet

 

[mmksparbud]

The Bible does NOT say that Jesus did NOT send extraterrestials from Kolob to the ancient civilizations of the Incas, Toltecs, Mayans and Aztecs, or to various Egyptian cultures, including a non-existent one which spoke Reformed Egyptian in their non-existence.

Carved on Inca stones steps were word-for-word quotes from the New Testament, dated 400 BC - IN KING JAMES ENGLISH !!

??? You, of course, have documentation of this?

 

[Tra Phull]

I think the documentation burned up after the white-bearded God...
Oh, maybe it just got lost.

 

[Rescued One]

• By Michael Shermer, a critic of Graham Hancock:
• 
  
• Graham Hancock is an audacious autodidact who believes that long before ancient Mesopotamia, Babylonia and Egypt there existed an even more glorious civilization. One so thoroughly wiped out by a comet strike around 12,000 years ago that nearly all evidence of its existence vanished, leaving only the faintest of traces, including, Hancock thinks, a cryptic warning that such a celestial catastrophe could happen to us. All this is woven into a narrative entitled Magicians of the Gods (Thomas Dunne Books, 2015). I listened to the audio edition read by the author, whose British accent and breathless, revelatory storytelling style are confessedly compelling. But is it true? I'm skeptical.

No, There Wasn't an Advanced Civilization 12,000 Years Ago

 

[Tra Phull]

There are a lot of things in this thread that I simply find silly.

So I post some silliness also.

I don't feel at present that I as OP should request the thread be closed, but I wish things would be focused on BOM being written in King James English.

 

[He is the way]

What does this book have to do with your claims? Its synopsis is:

The discovery of the Rosetta Stone and the subsequent decipherment of Egyptian hieroglyphics captured the imaginations of nineteenth-century American writers and provided a focal point for their speculations on the relationships between sign, symbol, language, and meaning. Through fresh readings of classic works by Emerson, Thoreau, Whitman, Poe, Hawthorne, and Melville, John T. Irwin’s American Hieroglyphics examines the symbolic mode associated with the pictographs.

Irwin demonstrates how American Symbolist literature of the period was motivated by what he calls "hieroglyphic doubling," the use of pictographic expression as a medium of both expression and interpretation. Along the way, he touches upon a wide range of topics that fascinated people of the day, including the journey to the source of the Nile and ideas about the origin of language.​

There doesn't appear to be any connection between this and the Mormon idea of "Reformed Egyptian". Talking about how nineteenth-century American writers speculated on the nature of Egyptian Hieroglyphs and incorporated pictographic expressions into their literary works is not the same as claiming that ancient Hebrew Indians produced a golden book in a language nobody had ever heard of before or since. That's not even related.

Be honest: did you just Google "Hieroglyphics + America" and post the first thing that came up from an academic source? I don't want to accuse you of that, but I don't see how you would otherwise come up with this particular source as supposed academic backing of your claims, since in reality it doesn't appear to have anything to do with the Mormon claims.

Yes I did google Hieroglyphics + America and I honestly thought that book was about the Mayans and their hieroglyphics as related to Egyptian hieroglyphics. I can see that I was wrong. That being said the Mayans did have a complex hieroglyphics language. They also had pyramids similar to those in Egypt:

"Mayan hieroglyphic writing, system of writing used by the Maya people of Mesoamerica until about the end of the 17th century, 200 years after the Spanish conquest of Mexico. (With the 21st-century discovery of the Mayan site of San Bartolo in Guatemala came evidence of Mayan writing that pushed back its date of origin to at least 300 or 200 BC.) It was the only true writing system developed in the pre-Columbian Americas. Mayan inscriptions are found on stelae (standing stone slabs), stone lintels, sculpture, and pottery, as well as on the few surviving Mayan books, or codices. The Mayan system of writing contains more than 800 characters, including some that are hieroglyphic and other phonetic signs representing syllables. The hieroglyphic signs are pictorial—i.e., they are recognizable pictures of real objects—representing animals, people, and objects of daily life.


A page from the Madrid Codex (Codex Tro-Cortesianus), one of the Mayan sacred books, showing the corn god (left) and the rain god, Chac, and several Mayan glyphs; in the Museo de América, Madrid.
Until the mid-20th century, very little Mayan writing could be deciphered except for the symbols representing numbers, dates, and rulers’ names and denoting such events as birth, death, and capture. Most scholars accepted the theory that the Mayan writing system was entirely logographic—that is, that each glyph, or sign, represented an entire word. In addition, it was widely believed that the Mayan inscriptions were largely religious in character.

During the 1950s the linguist Yury Knorozov demonstrated that Mayan writing was phonetic as well as hieroglyphic. In 1958 Heinrich Berlin established that a certain category of glyphs referred either to places or to the ruling families associated with those places. Two years later Tatiana Prouskouriakoff established that the inscriptions were primarily historical: they recorded events in the lives of Mayan rulers and their families. The work of these three scholars constituted a revolution in Mayan studies, and in succeeding decades the decipherment of the writing proceeded at an accelerating rate.

The Mayan writing system is complex: a single sign may function as a logogram and also have one or more syllabic values; similarly, a single logographic sign may be used to represent several words that are pronounced in the same way. In addition, different signs may share phonetic or logographic values. In some cases scholars understand the meaning of a logographic sign but have not determined its reading—i.e., what word it stands for; other signs can be deciphered phonetically, but their meanings are not known. Nevertheless, by the early 21st century scholars had read a substantial number of inscriptions, affording much new information about Mayan language, history, social and political organization, and ritual life, as well as a completely different picture of Mayan civilization than had been previously proposed.

Books in Mayan hieroglyphs, called codices, existed before the Spanish conquest of Yucatán about 1540, but most works written in the script were destroyed as pagan by Spanish priests. Only four Mayan codices are known to survive:"

More about this at: Mayan hieroglyphic writing

Too bad the Spanish priests destroyed most of these written works.

 

[Tra Phull]

So we move towards honesty.

That there are similarities between diverse cultures is a broad concept.

 

[Peter1000]

The Bible does NOT say that Jesus did NOT send extraterrestials from Kolob to the ancient civilizations of the Incas, Toltecs, Mayans and Aztecs, or to various Egyptian cultures, including a non-existent one which spoke Reformed Egyptian in their non-existence.

Carved on Inca stones steps were word-for-word quotes from the New Testament, dated 400 BC - IN KING JAMES ENGLISH !!

Interestingly enough, neither does the BOM.