LDS why is the BOM in King James English

[BigDaddy4]

Again, we will have to agree to disagree.

I have over the years shown you enough evidence to at least wet your interest. If you have sincerely read the BOM without bias, you would know that it is true. But you have not, and you will not. So there will be no evidence that will be enough for you.

We will have to wait as usual and see what science comes up with next. But even if a mural of Jesus Christ was uncovered that dated to between 33ad to 50ad, you would not believe it. So I am not sure anything more can be said of the subject.

Just remember that before science said that there was a more ancient people than the Mayan people, the BOM said there was. The BOM said where these ancients came from, how they got here, and who their kings were. It also explains in detail why they disappeared.

Just remember before scientists said that there could have been ancient ships that carried people from the middle east and europe to America, the BOM said it, and gave details as to who built the ships and how their voyage here. Science fought this whole idea until just a few years ago because it interupted their Bering Strait explanation. But the evidence beccame overwhelming and they finally had to agree with JS that the ancients had the ability to come to the Americas by ship too.

There are lots of interesting scientific evidences that the BOM said first before science said second, but let science lead the way now to new evidences that will be interesting to see in the future.

The only evidence you've shown me is the desperate lengths lds will go to to make their fairy tale seem true.

 

[Peter1000]

The only evidence you've shown me is the desperate lengths lds will go to to make their fairy tale seem true.

In 1830 JS told us that there was an more ancient people than the Mayan. Science finally caught up to him around 1970. Was this a lucky guess fairy tell story? How did JS know 150 years before scientists knew their was a more ancient people than Mayan? Lucky guess, right?

How did JS know in 1830 that ancient peoples crossed the atlantic by ship, 170 years before scientists acknowledged the same? Lucky guess of a fairy tell story?

No, JS was told by Jesus Christ of these people and given their record to reveal to the world today for the reason of notifying us that the same thing that happened to these people could happen to us if we did not believe in Jesus Christ and keep his commandments this land will fall into the hands of other people. The BOM is a second witness that Jesus is the Christ. The Bible and the BOM stand as 2 witnesses that Jesus is the Christ from 2 different peoples, thousands of miles apart. It is also a warning book for our society today.

 

[mmksparbud]

to
The genetic research is only at the beginning. The first try to research for Jewish markers in genetics was flawed. (I would have to read John Lund's book on Mesoamerica again) He says that the researchers found evidence of Jewish DNA long before Columbus, but discarded it, believing it must have been a speciman from after Columbus. (Every body knows there were no Jews in the Americas before Columbus, right?) So how could a genetic research project, payed for by people who wanted to prove there was no Jewish people in the Americas before Columbus, come up with the opposite conclusion. (Everyone knows there were no Jews in the Americas before Columbus, right?) The payed scientists had to come up with the right answer. Who knows what these scientists really found and did not report. John Lund said his research shows a lot of mischief in the whole first projects.

Besides the people of the BOM were not Jews in the first place. They were not of the house of Judah of the 12 tribes of Israel. They were of the house of Joseph and more particularly of the house of Manasseh, Joseph's son. So the marker would be a different for them.

Anyway if you are trying to prove by genetics that the BOM is true or false, you will not be able to do it. Who knows from 580bc to 1500ad who these people mixed with and how that affected their DNA, especially after 400ad, and 1,100 years before Columbus. Genetics will not work in your favor or mine. The jury is still out. But stand by, it will be interesting as more excavating is done.

LOL! As usual, you have that backwards. It is not us that are trying to prove you wrong through genetics, it is you that has tried to prove the BOM true. through genetics and have been unable to do so. AQ Jew is anyone who is born of a Jewish mother. regardless of the tribe. In the book of Esther, the first time the word Jew is used---Mordecai is called a Jew, and is of the tribe of Benjamin. A Levite is still a Jew though not of the tribe Judah. Technically, the term should be Israelite, or Hebrew. Like Native Americans are not technically "Indians", it is how they are commonly referred to. The question of what makes a Jew is not for the LDS to determine, but the Jews themselves. DNA markers go through the mitochondria DNA. Paternal line determines the tribe, maternal the question of whether you are a Jew or not. Even if you father is a Jew, but your mother is not Jewish---you are not a Jew. Even if your mother is an atheist, if she is a Jew--you are a Jew. Modern day Israelites are wanting that changed so that it is if either parent is a Jew, then you are, but they have not succeeded in changing the laws. DNA tells whether you are Ashkenazi or Sephardic.

 

[Peter1000]

LOL! As usual, you have that backwards. It is not us that are trying to prove you wrong through genetics, it is you that has tried to prove the BOM true. through genetics and have been unable to do so. AQ Jew is anyone who is born of a Jewish mother. regardless of the tribe. In the book of Esther, the first time the word Jew is used---Mordecai is called a Jew, and is of the tribe of Benjamin. A Levite is still a Jew though not of the tribe Judah. Technically, the term should be Israelite, or Hebrew. Like Native Americans are not technically "Indians", it is how they are commonly referred to. The question of what makes a Jew is not for the LDS to determine, but the Jews themselves. DNA markers go through the mitochondria DNA. Paternal line determines the tribe, maternal the question of whether you are a Jew or not. Even if you father is a Jew, but your mother is not Jewish---you are not a Jew. Even if your mother is an atheist, if she is a Jew--you are a Jew. Modern day Israelites are wanting that changed so that it is if either parent is a Jew, then you are, but they have not succeeded in changing the laws. DNA tells whether you are Ashkenazi or Sephardic.

The Church of Jesus Christ has never done genetic research to try to prove the BOM is true.

The researchers are scientists that were trying to prove that the early inhabitants of the Americas were Asiatic, coming over the Bering Strait. This was their hill to defend and all of their agenda from the beginning depended on just the Bering Strait crossing.

They knew what they wanted to prove and by dang they proved it, even if they had to throw away and hide data that was not what they expected. What they actually found was that there was many ways that men came to the Americas, not just over the Bering Strait.
(What, JS was right???????) Well we we'll show him!!! So out went any data that proved anything different than what the paid scientists wanted us to know, and out went anything to do with ancient Israel in the Americas.

You can laugh all you want, but much brighter people than us have researched this in detail and this is their conclusion.

Finally the evidence has been so overwhelming that scientists have had to admit that there were many crossings into the Americas long before Columbus. One of which are the Vikings.
Even China crossed by ship, and of course the Lehi's came from Jerusalem. The mixing of the Asians from across the Bering Strait and the Lehi's and other groups that came to the Americas over the thousands of years since 590 bc has made it difficult to be genetically profound and so depending on ancient genetics to prove anything with assurance is risky business.

There was a man that left the church because of the first genetic research, but when he found out that the research was faulty, he rejoined the church. This happened to quite a few people. To lose your testimony over anything genetic, is just silly.

 

[mmksparbud]

The Church of Jesus Christ has never done genetic research to try to prove the BOM is true.

The researchers are scientists that were trying to prove that the early inhabitants of the Americas were Asiatic, coming over the Bering Strait. This was their hill to defend and all of their agenda from the beginning depended on just the Bering Strait crossing.

They knew what they wanted to prove and by dang they proved it, even if they had to throw away and hide data that was not what they expected. What they actually found was that there was many ways that men came to the Americas, not just over the Bering Strait.
(What, JS was right???????) Well we we'll show him!!! So out went any data that proved anything different than what the paid scientists wanted us to know, and out went anything to do with ancient Israel in the Americas.

You can laugh all you want, but much brighter people than us have researched this in detail and this is their conclusion.

Finally the evidence has been so overwhelming that scientists have had to admit that there were many crossings into the Americas long before Columbus. One of which are the Vikings.
Even China crossed by ship, and of course the Lehi's came from Jerusalem. The mixing of the Asians from across the Bering Strait and the Lehi's and other groups that came to the Americas over the thousands of years since 590 bc has made it difficult to be genetically profound and so depending on ancient genetics to prove anything with assurance is risky business.

There was a man that left the church because of the first genetic research, but when he found out that the research was faulty, he rejoined the church. This happened to quite a few people. To lose your testimony over anything genetic, is just silly.

Yes. Every scientist, in every country, all have conspired against JS. And every scientist in every country, have all conspired to prove that the earth is round, when we know it is flat. Every scientist in every country are all united in 2 things, to prove JS is wrong and that the earth round. At least they are united about 2 things.

 

[mmksparbud]

The Church of Jesus Christ has never done genetic research to try to prove the BOM is true.

The researchers are scientists that were trying to prove that the early inhabitants of the Americas were Asiatic, coming over the Bering Strait. This was their hill to defend and all of their agenda from the beginning depended on just the Bering Strait crossing.

They knew what they wanted to prove and by dang they proved it, even if they had to throw away and hide data that was not what they expected. What they actually found was that there was many ways that men came to the Americas, not just over the Bering Strait.
(What, JS was right???????) Well we we'll show him!!! So out went any data that proved anything different than what the paid scientists wanted us to know, and out went anything to do with ancient Israel in the Americas.

You can laugh all you want, but much brighter people than us have researched this in detail and this is their conclusion.

Finally the evidence has been so overwhelming that scientists have had to admit that there were many crossings into the Americas long before Columbus. One of which are the Vikings.
Even China crossed by ship, and of course the Lehi's came from Jerusalem. The mixing of the Asians from across the Bering Strait and the Lehi's and other groups that came to the Americas over the thousands of years since 590 bc has made it difficult to be genetically profound and so depending on ancient genetics to prove anything with assurance is risky business.

There was a man that left the church because of the first genetic research, but when he found out that the research was faulty, he rejoined the church. This happened to quite a few people. To lose your testimony over anything genetic, is just silly.

Does it really never occur to the LDS that these scientists don't know who JS is? And if they do know, do they really know what they teach? Most "discoveries" are usually by accident, while in search of something else. Nobody has the unlimited resources to just research whatever they want. There are no labs dedicated to the destruction of LDS literature. They have research they are funded for and independent labs just don't have the resources to just tinker around, much less try to demolish some religion they never heard of or just vaguely know about. Jewish scientist are researching about their own inquiries into their own culture, religion and could care less about proving or disproving some strange religion they may not even know about.

 

[He is the way]

Joseph Smith was a scientist.

https://www.amazon.com/Joseph-Smith-Scientist-Widtsoe-John/dp/1594628122

Why is the Book of Mormon in King James English?

"Why did Joseph Smith translate the Book of Mormon into English using words and phrases which are characteristic of the King James Version of the Bible instead of the common language of his time? I think it was to separate our experience with scripture from similar experiences like reading a newspaper or a novel. This choice of language connected the Book of Mormon with existing scripture (the Bible), and it helped his readers to set aside their ordinary habits of thought and open their minds and hearts to a sacred experience.

President Dallin H. Oaks once explained why we use different words in our prayers than in our everyday conversations:

When we go to worship in a temple or a church, we put aside our working clothes and dress ourselves in something better. This change of clothing is a mark of respect. Similarly, when we address our Heavenly Father, we should put aside our working words and clothe our prayers in special language of reverence and respect….
In our day the words thee, thou, thy, and thine are suitable for the language of prayer, not because of how they were used anciently, but because they are currently obsolete in common English discourse. Being unused in everyday communications, they are now available as a distinctive form of address in English, appropriate to symbolize respect, closeness, and reverence for the one being addressed (“The Language of Prayer,” General Conference, April 1993)."

From: Why Is the Book of Mormon Written in King James English?

 

[dzheremi]

Joseph Smith was a scientist.

Hahahahahahahahahahaha.

That might be the funniest thing I've ever read on this website.

^ Joseph Smith, Genius Science Man, doing science

 

[He is the way]

I guess you didn't read the book:

Joseph Smith as Scientist by John A. Widtsoe

 

[dzheremi]

I guess you didn't read the book:

Joseph Smith as Scientist by John A. Widtsoe

No, I did not read Mormon propaganda, and I'm not missing out on anything by not doing so. Joseph Smith was by no measure any kind of scientist. Glass looking and money digging are not sciences.

 

[He is the way]

No, I did not read Mormon propaganda, and I'm not missing out on anything by not doing so. Joseph Smith was by no measure any kind of scientist. Glass looking and money digging are not sciences.

Some people know zip about Joseph Smith.

 

[mmksparbud]

You know zip about Joseph Smith.

You know only what you want to know, what you have been told for eons. What you believe. We know "the rest of the story."

 

[Peter1000]

No, I did not read Mormon propaganda, and I'm not missing out on anything by not doing so. Joseph Smith was by no measure any kind of scientist. Glass looking and money digging are not sciences.

Again you use the word "propaganda" as if everything we say about anything is biased and misleading. Interesting, though, I believe the most biased person on this forum is you. You can't even read an article that could be positive about JS, your bias is so great. Don't talk to us about propaganda.

 

[mmksparbud]

Again you use the word "propaganda" as if everything we say about anything is biased and misleading. Interesting, though, I believe the most biased person on this forum is you. You can't even read an article that could be positive about JS, your bias is so great. Don't talk to us about propaganda.

A reviewer wrote:

This book may be well-meant, but I simply can't recommend it on that count alone.

"Joseph Smith as Scientist" may have worked if the author was trying to point out how religious principles often mimic the more important scientific discoveries. However, this is a far cry from trying to reconcile science and religion, or suggest that Joseph Smith's quotations should be taken in a scientific sense, rather than a spiritual one. I give this book one star because I feel strongly that taking spiritual quotations and matching them to scientific discoveries is, well, misguided. When Christ says "Ye are the salt of the earth," I think it improper to excitedly point to the amount of sodium in our bodies. When the Bible says "Faith is the evidence of things not seen," the idea that this is a reference to atomic particles seems to lessen the spiritual value.

Altogether, as I read this book I couldn't help but feel that somebody was switching the labels. That is to say, I feel that Joseph Smith certainly did not think of himself as a scientist, and did not want others to think of him this way. He did not intend scientific discoveries to be tested against his teachings, nor the other way around."

"I didn't believe a word written about this Mormon."

All Mormons give it rave reviews.

 

[dzheremi]

You know zip about Joseph Smith.

I know enough to not follow him. That's all that matters.

 

[He is the way]

I know enough to not follow him. That's all that matters.

I know where that information came from, there have been volumes written about Joseph Smith from people who really knew him, not all of the naysayers who continue to fault him.

 

[He is the way]

You know only what you want to know, what you have been told for eons. What you believe. We know "the rest of the story."

There will always people who hate God's prophets. I just consider the source. Naysayers vs those who knew him. Consider why people hate God's true prophets.

 

[mmksparbud]

There will always people who hate God's prophets. I just consider the source. Naysayers vs those who knew him. Consider why people hate God's true prophets.

God's prophets being the operative words. LDS believe he is. I do not.

 

[He is the way]

A reviewer wrote:

This book may be well-meant, but I simply can't recommend it on that count alone.

"Joseph Smith as Scientist" may have worked if the author was trying to point out how religious principles often mimic the more important scientific discoveries. However, this is a far cry from trying to reconcile science and religion, or suggest that Joseph Smith's quotations should be taken in a scientific sense, rather than a spiritual one. I give this book one star because I feel strongly that taking spiritual quotations and matching them to scientific discoveries is, well, misguided. When Christ says "Ye are the salt of the earth," I think it improper to excitedly point to the amount of sodium in our bodies. When the Bible says "Faith is the evidence of things not seen," the idea that this is a reference to atomic particles seems to lessen the spiritual value.

Altogether, as I read this book I couldn't help but feel that somebody was switching the labels. That is to say, I feel that Joseph Smith certainly did not think of himself as a scientist, and did not want others to think of him this way. He did not intend scientific discoveries to be tested against his teachings, nor the other way around."

"I didn't believe a word written about this Mormon."

All Mormons give it rave reviews.

There are bad reviews about Ellen G. White's books too. Should I post some of them?

 

[mmksparbud]

There are bad reviews about Ellen G. White's books too. Should I post some of them?

You can give her all the publicity you want. I never mention her for this thread is not about her however hard you want to change the topic. I've seen those on the threads that are about her, which you never show up to those. You just want to bring her up on threads about JS. Doesn't bother me one bit. I've been on tons of anti-White threads and so what you have to say won't bother me in the least. I however, have read your prophets' stuff, you have never read a single one of her books so I know you are speaking from total ignorance without any actual knowledge of her writings. But feel free to keep trying to divert the thread all you want---the OP may have something to say about it---and the mods. But maybe that is what you want---to shut down the thread---too ,any difficult questions.